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FBI Admits to Flawed Testimony; Boston Marathon Today; Senate Fight Over Loretta Lynch to End Soon; Americans Struggle to Flee Yemen; Signing Tim Tebow; Tulsa Sheriff to Speak. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired April 20, 2015 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: It's mind boggling. How could this happen?
SPENCER HSU, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "WASHINGTON POST": Warnings about how the FBI testified about hair matches began in the 1970s. Other countries like Britain and Germany never went as far as the FBI, which championed this technique and viewed itself as the leading expert.
[09:30:06] How it happened is that judges, prosecutors and defense lawyers lacked the sophistication to challenge the sort of pseudo statistics that the FBI used to validate or to demonstrate the power of their techniques. Other than DNA, no other sort of pattern-based techniques have been scientifically validated to be able to positively identify an individual. The FBI would -- acknowledges in their written reports. But in courts they would suggest from their own case work, you know, I've only seen two hairs, I couldn't match in -- you know, twice in 10,000 times. To a jury that sounds like one in 5,000 and sometimes the agents themselves would say so.
COSTELLO: This sort of thing went on for decades and, I mean, it's just -- again, it's mindboggling. Did some kind of order come from the top because surely someone knew there were problems?
HUS: You know, the IG report, there were FBI whistle-blowers in the '90s -- or in the '80s that started saying that their practices were unscientific, hadn't been backed by research, were favoring prosecutors potentially. An IG report focused on one -- or led to an internal Justice Department review of one agent. They found these widespread problems. But they did not disclose to many defendants at that time and it didn't become public until 2012 thanks to the whistle-blowers -- National Whistle-bower Center for those documents which we reported on.
Some of the issues here are that, you know, forensic science -- law enforcement science has not been public and transparent like our other sciences so that there's not a disclose of methods and studies underpinning them. This is an adversarial process. Another issue is that judges have followed precedent so that when new scientific developments happen, they don't take the old precedents off the books so bad testimony can still get in. And then the courts, for upholding the value of finality, don't let defendants off in cases come back in to challenge their old bad testimony after conviction. So they, in a way -- in a sense are trapped. ' The federal government, in the last several years, has created a forensic science commission to try and develop better scientific testimony standards, better scientific research underpinning. These techniques like bite marks, hair, even comparing bullets -- tracing bullets to guns, which is another heavily used forensic technique. You know, but at this point, even the cases that you mentioned are just FBI cases. The same 28 FBI examiners whose work is being reviewed now, trained another 500 to 1,000 state examiners going back to the '70s.
COSTELLO: Wow. Steven (sic) Hsu, investigative reporter from "The Washington Post." Thanks so much. I appreciate it.
HSU: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Right now, the next wave of the Boston Marathon is about to take off. The field of elite women lining up as the city, and its iconic race, try to break free from the shadow of the terror bombings two years ago. Alexandra Field is along the route. She joins me now with more.
Good morning.
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Carol.
We will expect to see hundreds of people out here on Boylston Street to cheer on those runners when they do come across the finish line. This is a very emotional day in this city. Of course, the race this year comes in the middle of the Boston bomber's trial. The sentencing phase of that trial will start tomorrow. Soon, jurors will determine whether or not to sentence Dzhokhar Tsarnaev to death.
Survivors of the 2013 marathon attacks have been coming forward, sharing their thoughts. Just this morning, a statement from two of the survivors, Jessica Kensky and her husband Patrick Downes, they told this to "The Boston Globe" about the next phase of the trial. They said, "we wish that he could feel the searing pain and terror that four beautiful souls felt before their death, as well as the hash reality of discovering mutilated or missing legs. However, we must overcome the impulse for vengeance." Those words from Kensky and Downes, who are asking for a life sentence.
They join the Richards family, the family of Martin Richard, the eight-year-old boy who was killed in the blast back in 2013. Earlier this week, the Richards family put out their own statement asking for a life sentence instead of a death sentence, saying that the years of appeals that would come with the death sentence would force them to relive the most painful day of their life. That day, of course, very much on the minds of everyone who is out here today, Carol.
But this is Marathon Day. It's Patriots Day here in Boston. It is a beloved tradition and today at least people are trying to focus on the strength of the city and celebrate the strength of the 30,000 runners who will be heading out on this course.
COSTELLO: I know there should only be smiles today. Thanks so much. Alexandra Field reporting. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, she's President Obama's pick to replace
Eric Holder at the Justice Department. After a month-long battle though, could Loretta Lynch finally get a Senate vote? We'll talk about that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:38:06] COSTELLO: The long wait for Loretta Lynch, President Obama's pick for attorney general, could soon be over. Lynch, who would be the first African-American woman to hold the post, was nominated more than 160 days ago. The delay, the longest for an attorney general in three decades.
But while Lynch has received public support from several Republicans, the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, is holding her nomination as leverage to end a dispute with Democrats over a human trafficking bill. Now, another top Republican says that dispute will likely end this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: There's a human trafficking bill that passed almost unanimously out of committee, over a detail, a found -- a detail that was found after it passed out of committee, it's been held up, and so what's happened is that and Loretta Lynch are being held together. My sense is, over the next 48 to 72 hours, that is going to be resolved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: OK. My clock has started ticking right now because I don't believe it. So let's talk about this. Van Jones is a CNN political commentator and former Obama administration official. Ben Ferguson is also a CNN political commentator and conservative talk radio host.
Welcome to both of you.
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Glad to be here. Good morning.
COSTELLO: Ben, why are they fighting over this? There's no controversy here.
FERGUSON: Welcome to Washington, right? I mean this is -- this is one of those classic issues where you don't give me what I don't -- I don't -- I don't want, and I'm not going to give you what you want. And that's the way that sometimes this works. I mean part of the big issue here was, with this human trafficking bill is the fact that it basically came out of committee unanimously and then Democrats acted as if they were duped.
They knew about this. The staff knew about this. Even Democratic senator from Minnesota said, we did have the information that this type of language was in the bill and we still let it come out of committee unanimously. And then they try to cry foul. You can't do that. If you want to know what's up, you've got to actually read the bill and see what's in it before you vote on it and now Democrats say they're upset about it and, well, now you're in this situation.
[09:40:11] COSTELLO: OK. So we're in this situation. But, Van, do voters really care? Do the American people really care about some spat that the Republicans and Democrats are having over somebody not reading the bill or --
JONES: Well, you know, I -- well, I don't -- I don't think so. First of all, the only person that Republicans like less than President Obama is Eric Holder.
FERGUSON: Amen.
JONES: You have the attorney general sitting there. He has his -- he has his bag packed, next to the desk, ready to walk out. And now, month after month after month, the Republicans come up with another reason to keep him there. First it's immigration. Now it's this human rights bill. It's stupid.
But it's actually also -- it's dangerous. This is the top cop in the country. You're now creating all this uncertainty with the Department of Justice. You should not be doing that. You shouldn't be playing politics. Of course the Democrats should have read the bill, but I think America deserves to have certainty with the Department of Justice.
COSTELLO: That's true. The Democrats should have -- should have read the bill. But the nation's top cop is important at this particular time in history, isn't it, Ben, because of -- there's been so many problems with police -- alleged police brutality throughout the country?
FERGUSON: Well, it is.
COSTELLO: And the Justice Department is very involved.
FERGUSON: But the -- sure, but to quote Van Jones, I totally agree with him. I mean, Eric Holder is not well liked by Republicans. He has done a great job in the eyes of Democrats. It's not like the job has not been done while there's been this spat. And ultimately it's going to be OK. And when Loretta Lynch gets confirmed, I believe that she's going to now because of this whole issue in politics and Washington, everyone says they hate yet it happens and it works and that's how the system is sometimes, it's going to be just fine.
So there has been no void out there that needed to be filled at the Justice Department. I know Democrats have loved how long Eric Holder's been around. And, in their opinion, he's done an amazing job and it's not like he's checked out either. He's not on vacation.
JONES: No, no, I'm not complaining about -- about the job he's doing. He's doing a great job. I just know that the people who work at the Department of Justice, when you're waiting -- listen, September was when Eric Holder says he's leaving. Now it's almost like we're in late spring and summer's coming. And when you're working there every day and you don't know who your boss is going to be next week, it's just not good for morale.
And also, you -- as Republicans saying they want to be the party of law and order, they want to be the party of homeland security. They were playing politics with homeland security a couple of months ago. I just think at a certain point we need to get on with the business of governing.
COSTELLO: What's that? Get -- what?
FERGUSON: And -- and I think the biggest issue -- I think the biggest issue, if there's anything to learn from this, you got to read the legislation before you unanimously put it out of committee and then we aren't even having this discussion right now.
JONES: I can't argue with you.
FERGUSON: I know they're all smart. They all claim they've got accolades. You've got to read the bill.
COSTELLO: All right, we're going to leave it there. Van Jones, Ben Ferguson, thanks so much. I appreciate it.
FERGUSON: Thanks.
COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM --
(VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: As Saudi-led airstrikes rock Yemen, Americans in the war- torn country are struggling to escape the violence. Is the U.S. government doing enough to help?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:46:27] COSTELLO: All right, you're looking at that podium in Tulsa, Oklahoma. At any moment now -- actually in just about 10 minutes, we're expecting a news conference to begin. Behind that podium will be the -- the sheriff -- the sheriff, Stanley Glanz. He's going to talk about the allegations surrounding that reserve deputy who shot and killed a suspect. There have been many allegations swirling around that case, like this reserve deputy didn't have the proper training, that some documents were falsified. And for the very first time, this sheriff, Stanley Glanz, will talk about all of those things, at least we hope so. When that newer starts out of Tulsa, of course we'll bring it to you live.
In other news this morning, Saudi-led airstrikes pounding Yemen. This one targeting a Houthi weapons depot, rocketing -- rocking the capital of Sanaa. Residents saying the blast blew out windows in their homes. And as the crisis escalates, Americans are struggling to flee the war- torn country. CNN's senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir is live in Djibouti this morning to tell us more.
Good morning.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Morning, Carol. Well, we know, as you have rightly described, that the situation in Yemen it teetering on the brink. It is -- has already been described as a humanitarian catastrophe and there doesn't seem to be any respite in sight for those Saudi-led airstrikes. If anything, reports on the ground we're hearing confirm that they seem to be escalating. All the while tens of thousands of civilians are trapped in the middle of that fighting, including Americans. Many foreign governments have managed to evacuate their nationals, but the American government has said it is simply too dangerous.
We traveled in to the besieged Yemeni city of Aidan and were able to bring out 60 refugees with us. We were the first boat to dock at port for weeks, Carol. They've been waiting, sleeping on the streets outside that port hoping that a ship would come by. This is what one of the Americans we brought out with us had to say. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUNA MUNASAR, AMERICAN FLEEING YEMEN: I called the Riad (ph) embassy and I asked them to help us. That there was about 75 families that were waiting at the mina (ph). My family's been --
ELBAGIR: At the port?
MUNASAR: At the port. My family has been waiting there for two weeks. We ran out of money. We ran out of food. We ran out of shelter. We were just sitting there waiting for someone to come in and say, OK, where's the Americans, let's pick them up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELBAGIR: The U.S. government has said that it is simply too unsafe for them to effect the kind of evacuations that we've seen the Indians, we've seen the Russians, we've seen the Chinese do. It's very difficult, though, to tell that to people like Muna. Muna says that her son was an Iraq War vet and being treated in this way by her government, she said, makes her feel that he had risked -- he had been willing to give the ultimate sacrifice for his country, but his country has abandoned his mother in her time of need.
Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, Nima Elbagir reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.
I'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:53:02] COSTELLO: Tim Tebow may be getting a second chance after what's been a short hit and miss career so far. Tebow, as you know, hasn't played since August of 2013, but right now there are reports Philadelphia will sign him. Really? CNN's sports correspondent Coy Wire joins me with more.
Seriously?
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, seriously, Carol. This is -- now these are just reports. Fox's Jay Glazer said Tebow will sign today. If it happens, that means that head coach Chip Kelly thinks that Tebow has a chance to play a role within his offensive scheme. It's not likely that he'd be expected to compete with Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez or Matt Barkley for one of the three main starting quarterback jobs there. So, you know, he's completed only 47 percent of his passes in his career, but he has averaged five yards per rush in the NFL. So perhaps Kelly thinks that he'd be an asset in short yardage or other situations. He'd be a great locker room guy, too. But to your question about media hype here, you know, that's what a lot of people are asking. It's already here, Carol. Check -- check out this. From the Philadelphia's "Daily News" front page cover reads "Born Again," playing off of Tebow's well-documented religious beliefs. Twitter, of course, has blown up too, Carol.
COSTELLO: Oh, well, you know, there's no doubt he is popular and he seems like such a nice guy. It also seems like he has a great career now. So, why give that up?
WIRE: That's a great question. It's a great question. Is it better to just talk about sports than have to actually play them and get beat up? But, look, a lot of people thought that Tebow's last chance was with the Patriots when they cut him before the 2013 season. But this guy's making cats jealous. He seems to have more than nine lives. If he makes it to the preseason and he plays well, puts some good play on tape, you know, he could even get picked up by another team even if Philly cuts him. But if he doesn't stick around with Philly or any other team for an entire season, I'd imagine, Carol, that this would be his last shot in the NFL. So we'll see.
COSTELLO: Well, we wish him the best. Coy Wire, thanks so much. I appreciate it.
WIRE: Thank you.
[09:54:58] COSTELLO: We are awaiting this press conference to start at any moment in Tulsa, Oklahoma. For the very first time the sheriff there, Stanley Glanz, will talk about these -- these alleged controversies -- these controversies, rather, surrounding this reserve deputy, Robert Bates, who shot and killed a suspect, he says accidentally. When this begins, of course, we'll go right to it. We'll take a break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
Breaking news right now out of Tulsa. Any moment now, the Tulsa county sheriff will be speaking out on that deadly shooting nearly three weeks ago. This will be the sheriff's first news conference since Reserve Deputy Robert Bates says he mistook his gun for a Taser and shot and killed a suspect.
Ed Lavandera is in that room. He's been following this story.
Why has it taken the sheriff so long to make a statement, Ed?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Carol, I think that's one of the questions that a lot of people have. He's done a handful of interviews here with local news media but this is the first time the sheriff has held a press conference to answer questions about the Eric Harris shooting and to talk about his relationship with Deputy Bates, as well as Mr. Bates' training and all the questions that have come up because of -- because of that shooting and the questions about the training. The sheriff is here in the room and we've been told we're about -- just a few seconds away from starting this press conference, Carol.
[10:00:08] COSTELLO: Yes, as soon as the sheriff gets up there and walks to the podium, of course we'll stop speaking.
