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Tulsa Sheriff Speaks on Fatal Shooting; Boston Holds Second Race Since Attacks; White House Fence Jumper Identified; FBI on Six U.S. Terror Arrests. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 20, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:50] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the sheriff was directly asked about that and here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF STANLEY GLANZ, TULSA COUNTY, OKLAHOMA: Mr. Harris ran directly towards him or in his area. And when Bob saw the two officers take down Mr. Harris, he got out and tried to assist. That's when the fatal shot was made.

(CROSSTALK)

GLANZ: And he -- let me tell you, he wasn't the only one that had his gun in his hand. There were other people in the area that had their guns out. Bob didn't mistake a gun for a Taser. He mistook having a gun in his hand and thought it was a Taser.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So basically he's saying -- I'm not sure what he's saying. Could you guys discern what he was saying?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I thought he implied that there was a mistake --

COSTELLO: Yes. Yes.

HOSTIN: -- that he sort of made the mistake of having his gun in his hand rather than the Taser.

COSTELLO: Rather than the Taser -- right.

HOSTIN: His intention was to have the Taser in his hand. But that also goes, I think, to training. We were discussing over the break -- how does a trained police officer or does a trained police officer make that kind of mistake? Is that a common mistake?

COSTELLO: Well, he also said there where many other police officers at the scene who had their guns drawn and they didn't go shoot the suspect.

TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Right. I mean it's not unusual for officers in this takedown situation to have their guns drawn because -- I mean let's call it what it is. Mr. Harris was not a nice guy.

COSTELLO: Right.

VERNI: : He was trying to sell guns. Had he been able to successfully sell that gun, that gun would have wound up on the street, probably shooting, injuring and killing somebody. So, you know, this is not a nice guy we were dealing with. Not that he deserved to be killed for what he was doing. He deserved to be in jail for the rest of his life.

However it seems clear that Mr. Bates -- or Deputy Bates mistook his gun for his Taser. You know, the gun and the Taser are in two completely different places on an officer's body. He had his Taser mounted to his vest. His gun was on his side. In most cases officers will have the Taser on the non shooting side -- their non shooting side meaning the side that their gun is not on.

So there's a differentiation when you're reaching for one versus the other. So it seems clear that he did -- I don't know what they're trying to -- how he's phrase this that he didn't but it seems that he did and he accidentally shot him is what it seems like. I don't think he meant to shoot him with a firearm. I think he meant to Taser him.

HOSTIN: But that doesn't that go toward his training.

VERNI: Well, that's to say anyone with the proper amount of training shouldn't be able to make that mistake. Mistakes are made too.

HOSTIN: Isn't it true that that is the kind of mistake that would not be made by your average law enforcement officer with the appropriate training.

VERNI: Right. You would hope so.

HOSTIN: We'll see what comes out in court -- right.

VERNI: Yes. We're going to find out.

COSTELLO: Tom Verni -- thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Marco Rubio scores big among potential Republican voters in a new CNN/ORC poll. Could a shift in his tone on social issues be helping him do that? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:36:19] COSTELLO: In Boston a city comes together. This is Boston strong two years later. The city's iconic marathon is off and running with a field of elite men bounding across the starting line at this very minute. The city itself has also made great strides in stepping from the shadow of those horrific bombings that ripped through the crowd.

Alexandra Field is the lucky one -- she's near the finish line. She joins us with more. Good morning.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning -- Carol. And certainly you can start to feel that sense of celebration in this city because this day is a time-honored tradition here.

The spot that I'm standing in, we expect to see thousands of people here soon because we're not too far from the finish line. Hundreds of thousands of people will be lining this route as the runners make their way toward Boylston Street. They are here to cheer on 30,000 people -- the strength, the commitment that it takes to run this race.

They're also here to cheer on more than two dozen survivors of the 2013 attacks who are participating in this race. There are also -- Carol a lot of people who are out here running today who are here to honor the victims who were killed in the 2013 blast.

And we'll never forget eight-year-old Martin Richard who died that day. There's a team today running in his name and earlier this morning we heard from one of the runners about what this race will mean to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKOLAS FRANKS, TEACHER OF MARTIN RICHARD: I ran last year. I had never run a marathon before. It was a reason that I had to run. I'm running for the Martin Richard Foundation. Martin Richard was the boy that was killed a couple of years ago in the bombings and was seen holding the sign that says no more hurting people. Peace. He happened to be a student of mine.

He was such a sweet guy. The whole family -- they're really amazing people. And it's interesting that he's become sort of a beacon of peace because he was a beacon of peace in our classroom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: This marathon, this race is being run just a week after a jury convicted Dzhokhar Tsarnaev of bombing the marathon. At the time of the conviction, there were survivors that came out and said they felt some sense of relief given the verdict.

Of course this trial isn't over. The second phase starts tomorrow -- that's the penalty phase when the jury will consider whether or not to sentence Tsarnaev to life in prison or the death sense. But today for the survivors who are part of this race, what they are focused on is the finish line here in Boston and, Carol, we know that they will be feeling a tremendous sense of victory when they come over that line today.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. Alexandra Field -- thanks so much.

The Secret Service has just named the man who jumped the White House fence last night. They say the suspect is 54-year-old Jerome R. Hunt. He's from Hayward, California. He scaled the fence around 10:25 Eastern last night. He's expected to be arraigned later today. CNN White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski has a little bit

more information on this. Tell us more -- Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Carol. You know, we're just finding out those details at least about this latest fence jumper. He didn't jump on this side of the White House in the front. It was around the backside, the south lawn. He was able to get over the fence and was quickly apprehended by Secret Service. We don't know any more about circumstances but he was carrying what was at first thought to be a suspicious package and that was later cleared.

And you know, we know just from looking at the statistics that have come up in the past year because of the fence jumper, remember, in September who made it all the way across the lawn and inside the White House that over the last five years there have been about a dozen now people who have gotten over the high fence that immediately borders the White House grounds; and some 30 others who have made it over the lower temporary barriers.

I mean it seems obvious to say but this is why many members of Congress and the house oversight committee feel like at this point in time now with so many threats facing us and with ISIS that change is urgently needed to the security around the White House.

[10:40:00] All of these incidents really almost all of them have proven to be people who were mentally ill who were trying to make a point and trying to take a stand, pretty much harmless, but of course the next one might not be -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Michelle Kosinski, reporting live from the White House -- I'm sorry I wasn't paying close attention to you because we have more breaking news to share with our audience. This is the U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota. He's talking in regards to the terror arrest of six people possibly wanting to possibly join ISIS. Let's listen.

ANDREW LUGER, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR MINNESOTA: -- by a federal grand jury in February was part of this group. He, along with Mohammad Farah (ph), Moussai and Abderahman (ph), tried to get to Syria by taking a Greyhound Bus to JFK Airport last November. After being stopped and despite the Ahmed's indictment, these three defendants continued to try to get to Syria to join ISIL.

Abdel Youssef (ph) who has already pled guilty to conspiring to join ISIL was part of the group as was his friend, Abdi Nur (ph). Youssef was stopped last May from traveling to join ISIL from the Minneapolis St. Paul airport. Nur unfortunately made it to Syria where today he's an active recruiter for ISIL.

Based on the information in the complaint, these defendants along with Ahmed, Youssef, Nur and others recruited each other, supported each other's efforts to get to Syria, helped each other with funding and worked exclusively and extensively to come up with the best travel arrangements. On multiple occasions members of the group were stopped from traveling to Syria. Their plans were disrupted and the consequences of their actions were made clear to them.

Yet they continued. (INAUDIBLE), for example was stopped multiple times from traveling. But what is remarkable about this case is that nothing stopped these defendants from pursuing their goal. They never stopped plotting another way to get to Syria to join ISIL. They were not confused young men. They were not easily influenced. These are focused men who were intent on joining a terrorist organization by any means possible.

People often ask who is doing the terror recruiting in Minnesota? When will we catch the person responsible? It is not that simple.

In today's case the answer is that this group of friends is recruiting each other. They are engaged in what we describe as peer to peer recruiting, friend to friend, brother to brother. But they did have extra help. They had their friend Abdi Nur because he made it to Syria last year and knows different routes and has different contacts, Nur has become a de facto foreign fighter recruiter for those in Minnesota.

As explained in the complaint, he's in regular contact with his friends. He advises them and he serves as a source of inspiration for those who want to replicate his success. To be clear, we have terror recruiting problem in Minnesota. And this case demonstrates how difficult it is to put an end to recruiting here.

Parents and loved ones should know that there is not one master recruiter organizing in the Somali community locally. What this case shows is that the person radicalizing your son, your brother, your friend, may not be a stranger. It may be their best friend right here in town. And your brother, your son, your relative could be talking to Abdi Nur in Syria who is providing inspiration and ideas for how to get to Syria.

I applaud the parents and relatives who are trying to keep young men safe from this activity. As this case demonstrates, it is difficult to do it on your own. I urge anyone who is concerned about their young son or brother to seek help in the community. Reach out to a trusted friend, a teacher, a professional counselor, a religious leader.

Ultimately unless we stop it from happening, the planning and scheming that takes place among those committed to joining ISIL and to participate in ISIL's violent ideology leads either to fighting for terrorists in Syria or to arrests here in Minnesota.

The information we now have about peer to peer recruiting and the lengths that these conspirators would go in order to join ISIL was made clearer in recent months.

[10:45:04] One member of the conspiracy decided to change course. One friend in this group decided to leave and to cooperate with the FBI. That cooperating witness agreed to record meetings of the co-conspirators and some information gathered through these conversations is set forth in the complaint.

The cooperating witness provides an inside view into the thinking of the conspirators and depth of their commitment to join ISIL. These recordings also capture the critical role played in helping the conspirators with their efforts.

Frustrated by their inability to travel from Minnesota, from New York and elsewhere, the conspirators discussed obtaining false passports and flying to Syria through Mexico. In the past few weeks, several of these defendants provided cash and photos of themselves to the cooperating witness to get fake passports so they could leave the United States.

I have said many times that we need to break the cycle of terror recruiting in Minnesota. These arrests bring us one step closer because these six men and Youssef and Ahmed before them were prevented from going. They will not be the next wave of recruiters like Abdi Nur.

They cannot reach out to more friends and relatives to join their cause. Each person we stop from traveling to Syria is one less Minnesota recruiter for ISIL. But Nur and others are not done. There are more friends who will be subjected to peer to peer recruiting and more who will be contacted by Abdi Nur and others overseas.

I want to applaud the outstanding and hard work of the dedicated FBI special agents, analysts and task force officers who have spent countless hours investigating the members of this conspiracy. They are among the best in the country and Minnesota is fortunate to have these agents and officers right here keeping us all safe.

I also want to recognize the prosecutors in my office and at the national security division of the Department of Justice for their excellent work. Despite the hard work and great successes of so many --

COSTELLO: All right. We're going to jump away now. But disturbing information coming out of this news conference out of Minneapolis.

I'm joined now by CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez and CNN counterterrorism analyst Phil Mudd. Thanks to both for being here.

So, it's just he said so many disturbing things. These six men charged. Evan, take us through for our viewers who are not so familiar with these cases. Who are these six men who were charged with trying to join ISIS?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, what's disturbing here is that what he's describing, what the U.S. Attorney in Minnesota is describing is a larger recruitment network, essentially. What he said is that this is a group of nine all together. These six have been stopped from traveling overseas to join ISIS.

He also mentioned that there is one Abdi Nur who disappeared a couple years ago and who has been the driving force trying to lure these young men, peers, friends, cousins, brothers, all of them he's trying to bring them over there, essentially ISIS chief recruiter for the Somali community and trying to bring them over there to join in the fight.

And what the U.S. Attorney there was saying is, you know, essentially what he hopes is that this case represents a break from that recruitment because as you remember, Carol, a couple years ago, five years ago, there was a big group of Somali men who decided to travel over to Somalia to join the Shabaab group.

Now this is completely different. This is ISIS. And so it's been quite of a surprise for law enforcement. They are wrestling with how to deal with this and clearly it's a big problem.

COSTELLO: Yes. And Phil, let's talk about that peer to peer recruiting because the reason that the FBI was able to get these guys is because one in the group decided to turn informant, right, and they were able to tape conversations from these fellow would-be terrorists. Is this a break in the case? Do we finally have a window into why these young men and women are so passionate about joining this terror group?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think the story is pretty simple here. You have a couple of pieces that we would not have witnessed a decade ago. Number one is the explosion of social media.

We talked about this before. But I'm going to predict when we see the criminal complaint that the influence of ISIS using things like Facebook and Twitter is expanding faster than we expected.

[10:50:00] The second is how easy it is to get to a place like Syria or Iraq. It seems like half a world away. But remember a decade ago if you wanted to get into one of these terror groups, you had to go even further to a place like western Pakistan or Somalia. That's one reason you're seeing so many Europeans go, it's very close geographically so this combination of how close it is, they opportunity to join what they view as a pure life, a chance to practice a pure Islam and influence of social media is why we see this explosion in America.

COSTELLO: So what other steps should be taken, Evan, in Minnesota since you heard what the U.S. attorney said. This is a big problem there.

PEREZ: Right. And you know, Carol -- Andy Luger, the U.S. Attorney who was speaking there just now, you know, he's leading the White House effort, which is called countering violent extremism and a lot of it is focused right there in Minnesota because you had the instances of people being recruited by Shabaab and now also being now recruited for ISIS and I think what he's trying to say is that, you know, reaching out to parents and family members that if they see someone looking like they're trying to go this route, then they should reach out and try to get some help.

The problem is, you know, a lot of these families, they reach out for help and then they see their loved ones arrested. I think the FBI is having a little bit of a difficult problem here because they have to try to get these people off the streets. They sometimes try to talk to them and see if they'll change their minds.

Clearly these kids were stopped. These young people were stopped when they were trying to leave from JFK last November. And yet they still continued to try to go. So, you know, he's saying reach out to friends and family. Try to see if you can talk to them first before we have to get involved. Before you have to get law enforcement involved.

COSTELLO: All right. I'm sure you'll continue to follow this story. Evan Perez, Phil Mudd -- thanks to you both. I appreciate it. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00] COSTELLO: "Boston Strong" -- that became the rallying cry in the aftermath of a nightmarish bomb blast at the Boston Marathon and it became a scene echoed in many forms including this iconic cover of the "Boston Magazine." All of those shoes worn by runners during that marathon and in the center of the heart, the vow "we will finish the race".

Let's talk about that race because it's now under way in the great city of Boston. Joining us is the publisher of "Boston Magazine" -- Kristen Standish -- good morning, Kristen.

KRISTEN STANDISH, BOSTON MAGAZINE: Good morning.

COSTELLO: First of all, tell me how you're feeling this day as the elite runners take to the field?

STANDISH: Well, I'm feeling a little nostalgic and very proud. We have an entire team here of runners running in the race so I can't wait to get to the finish line to cheer them on.

COSTELLO: It must be kind of eerie to run in the race knowing that tomorrow the death penalty phase of the Tsarnaev trial will begin.

STANDISH: It is a little eerie. And I think people are waiting for the sentencing to come through and it does hang over our head a little bit but we're all about perseverance and we're just moving along.

COSTELLO: Actually, I think that's what I most admire about Boston because Boston did not let this horrible tragedy affect it, you know, in the sense that right after the bombings happened, the marathon people came out and said we're going to run the marathon next year. There's not even a question about that.

STANDISH: Yes, Bostonians are pretty tough and we pride ourselves on being resilient. We're all about unity. When tough things happen, we all bond together. We just move on and we keep on running the race. Some of the families affected by the bombings have spoken out

against the death penalty for Tsarnaev. What is your feeling? What is the feeling you get from the community at large?

STANDISH: I think people are really supportive of the family and their wishes and how they spoke out and we believe in the judicial system here and we're ready to put this behind us.

COSTELLO: Kristen Standish -- thanks so much for joining me. I'll let you get to the race because that's much more fun.

STANDISH: Thank you. It's a lot of fun. Thank you for speaking with us.

COSTELLO: Anytime.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "@THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND BOLDUAN" after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Home grown terror bust. At least six people arrested in --