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Death of Suspect; Tornado Warnings for Atlanta; U.S. Journalist Charged in Iran. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 20, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:03] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me on this Monday.

Just a head's up to all of you. Live during this show, we could be getting the answers that relatives and protesters, even the mayor are demanding in the death of Freddie Gray. Baltimore Police now getting ready to hold a news conference one day after the 25-year-old died. According to police, Gray was arrested - this was back on April 12th, quote/unquote, "without force or incident." But as you can see from this photo from the family here, that may be a different story, according to some. Somehow, in police custody, Gray's spinal cord was severed, his family's lawyer says, and he lapsed into a coma.

Now, there is no video of Baltimore officers approaching Gray. We don't have that. By the time cell phones started rolling, he apparently couldn't walk, but he could talk, and in this footage, you can hear his screams.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). His leg look broke! Look at his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) leg! Look at his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) leg! That boy's leg look broke! His leg broken. Y'all dragging him like that!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's begin all our coverage on this with our Suzanne Malveaux. She breaks down the critical moments of Freddie Gray's final days.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). His leg look broke. Look at his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) leg.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That is Freddie Gray.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) leg. That boy's leg look broke.

MALVEAUX: Being detained a week ago by Baltimore Police. The question now, how did the 25-year-old go from this, to this, lapsing into a coma less than an hour later and dying yesterday.

MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE (D) BALTIMORE: The questions that many of you have are the same questions that we're asking.

MALVEAUX: The attorney for Gray's family alleges the police are covering up what really happened. Baltimore Police say they spot Gray and begin to approach him at 8:39 in the morning on April 12th for reasons not yet disclosed. They say Gray immediately runs away. Just a minute later, police take Gray into custody. And then, 14 minutes later, at 8:54 in the morning, this is the first video we see of the event.

Officers load Gray into the police van. Police say video evidence indicates Gray's conscious and speaking at the time. A half hour later, police request paramedics bring Gray to a hospital. Gray's family attorney says he lapsed into a coma and underwent extensive surgery. His spinal cord was severely injured. And a week later, he died at 7:00 in the morning.

So two looming questions, why did police pursue Gray and what happened to him while he was in their custody that resulted in his death?

DEP. COMM. JERRY RODRIGUEZ, BALTIMORE POLICE: The officers believed that Mr. Gray was either immediately involved or had been recently involved in criminal activity and they decided to make contact with Mr. Gray. Now that is still a bit vague.

MALVEAUX: This most recent mystery into a deadly police encounter sparking more outrage.

CROWD: No justice, no peace.

MALVEAUX: In a nation already embroiled in debate over police tactics and use of force. Though in this most recent encounter, Baltimore's mayor promises answers.

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: I want citizens to know exactly how it happened and, if necessary, we will - I will ensure that we will hold the right people accountable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Suzanne Malveaux with that.

Here I've got "Baltimore Sun" reporter Justin Fenton.

And, Justin, I have a lot for you. I know, as Suzanne pointed out, sort of the two big questions that perhaps we finally will get some answers to in this news conference that will happen live during the show, why did police pursue him, and what happened while he was in police custody? Do you have any, any details, anything from sources at this hour? JUSTIN FENTON, REPORTER, "THE BALTIMORE SUN": So this story has been

going on for a week and police have not disclosed really anything about the incident. And that's really what's fueling a lot of the frustrations from the community. But we were able to obtain this morning a document filed in court by police regarding the arrest of Mr. Gray in which the officer who made the arrest states that he was stopped because he had run from police without provocation. That they didn't know why he was running, so they ran after him. And when they stopped him, he had a switchblade on him. They claim that he was taken into custody without force or incident. And that once he was placed in the transport van, at some point he had a - went into a medical emergency. We know, obviously, that medical emergency was a severely injured spine. And so right now what the police are trying to do is they're trying to figure out, you know, at what point those injuries occurred. Did it happen in the van? Did it happen before or after?

[14:05:07] BALDWIN: That's right. That's right. And I've got a former police officer of many years who I'll ask about the whole arrested without force or incident, as you alluded to from, you know, police - police reports. But my next question would be, you know, when you - when you watch this video and you hear his screams, his wails, that tells me that he was able to make noise or to communicate to a degree before he's entering the van. Did you see that?

FENTON: Right. And police have noted that they - if you watch the tape very carefully, he's at first dragging his feet. But right before they put him into the van, he sort of props himself up and puts his feet down. So that's leading them to believe that this injury happened at some point after that arrest, and that's what they're looking into.

Now there have been lawsuits in the city in the past about people who were unrestrained in police vans. The vans were perhaps driven aggressively. And there was actually someone who sued the city and won a large judgment for having a broken neck in such an incident. So that's one of the things that obviously I think is being looked at right now.

BALDWIN: Well, Justin, let's broaden it out. And I think that lawsuit is one of many. I was reading in your paper this morning about now how the DOJ is investigating because the commissioner is calling on it because of your paper. I mean you've been covering this for years. Baltimore Police certainly no stranger to complaints and lawsuits and settlements. For people who are not following Baltimore, we're not quite in the weeds as you are, put this all in context for us.

FENTON: Yes, I mean every year the department has a certain number of uses of force. They might have anywhere from nine to 20 police- involved shootings. In the past couple years there have been a string of incidents that really captured the city's attention. Some in- custody deaths that weren't - did not involve shootings. People who were taken to the ground during an arrest and had a ruptured spleen and died. There was a man who was pulled over for making a three-point turn, reversing in an intersection. He ended up dying after a struggle with police. There's also a teenager who was taken to the hospital who was Tasered multiple times and died. And in these cases, the department has - they've talked about

transparency. They've commissioned these blue-ribbon panels to have outside experts look at the cases. But the feeling in the community is that the police are above the law. That they - they are not made to answer for their actions and that these cases frankly take too long. They want answers now. They want to know what the department knows.

And our reporting this morning shows that they indeed have, you know, a documented account of what happened. It was filed publicly in court, but they just didn't want to discuss it. They say that was to preserve the integrity of the investigation. It is a document that was in court and we obtained, however.

BALDWIN: All right. Well, great reporting on your end and your paper's end and we'll all be watching and waiting for new details to drop in about an hour and a half. Justin Fenton with "The Baltimore Sun," thank you so much.

Again, that news conference happening 3:30 Eastern Time. We'll take the whole thing live for you as we should get more details on this man's death.

As you heard, the Baltimore Police force has been under fire for abuse and overstepping its authority before. I want you to listen to this statement. This is from the attorney for Freddie Gray's family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM "BILLY" MURPHY JR., ATTORNEY FOR FREDDIE GRAY'S FAMILY: Now bear in mind that Baltimore has a sorry history of police brutality and an even sorrier history in terms of a governmental response to police brutality. Typically, the police deny, deny, deny, no matter what the facts are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now from Baltimore, the Reverend Cortly Witherspoon from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. Also here with me in New York, David Katz, CEO of the global security group, a former senior special agent with the DEA and a firearms expert.

So, gentlemen, welcome to both of you.

And, reverend, I mean you're there in Baltimore, so let me please start - just begin with you. You know, you heard the attorney for Freddie Gray's family. I know you've referred to Baltimore as this policed state. We'll be hearing from police one week since he was taken in that van. Why do you think it's taken police a week to speak publicly?

REV. CORTLY WITHERSPOON, SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE: Well, quite frankly, we don't know what the police department is hiding. Unfortunately, we've dealt with this so many times before, as Justin Fenton articulated. And he's done a superior job reporting on these incidents as we've had several high-profile cases within the past three years. He spoke about an incident with a man who was beaten to death in east

Baltimore. Anthony Anderson was killed on his two-year-old granddaughter's birthday in her presence. Police officers walked up behind him. They launched him into the air like a basketball, slamming him on his head, killing him almost instantly. Police initially indicated that this transpired because they saw him in the midst of a drug transaction. However, we, the community, demanded a preliminary autopsy report, and we received it within 48 hours. There was no airway obstruction whatsoever with Mr. Anderson, nor were there any drugs on the scene. So we forced police into recanting their statements.

[14:09:58] In addition, two years ago, Tyrone West (ph) was killed by the Baltimore City Police. He was drug out of his car. He was beaten. He was Tased to death. And both of those instances happened without any type of consequences. No officers were fired. They were able to retain their pensions. And no one was jailed for those type of incidents.

And the last one I'd like to mention very briefly -

BALDWIN: Sure.

WITHERSPOON: Is George King. He was a 19-year-old man who went into cardiac arrest at Good Samaritan Hospital, a hospital of all places. He went there to get a simple tooth extraction and was Tasered five times to death by the Baltimore City Police and Good Samaritan Police. And in that case, no officers were held accountable. No firings. And, again, no one was sent to prison. We want to happen here what happened in South Carolina. We want these officers to be fired, and we want for them to be charged with murder.

BALDWIN: All right. Reverend, let me come back to you here.

David Katz, let me just bring you in. I mean you hear these examples, myriad examples, of, you know, aggressive police, you know, tactics in Baltimore, you know. And when you watch this video, just from a law enforcement perspective, and there are a lot of holes. You know, as "The Baltimore Sun" reporter was pointing out, we don't know what happened to Freddie Gray's legs. We don't know what happened once they put him in the van. We just know 80 percent of his spinal cord was severed. He went into a coma and ultimately he died. When you see this play out, though, through your lens, what do you see?

DAVID KATZ, CEO, GLOBAL SECURITY GROUP : Well, first of all, one thing that jumps to mind is the fact that there may have been other instances of brutality and inappropriate use of force doesn't affect this case. This case -

BALDWIN: Right. We're looking at this singularly.

KATZ: This case. So all we can see right now, we can see Mr. Gray on the ground. We can see him in handcuffs. We can see him screaming. He's in pain. It's very likely - I know there's been some suggestion that he was - he was injured in the van. Probably unlikely. People need to understand that in any interaction, when you're putting your hands on somebody, you're running away, an officer's going to tackle you or you're resisting arrest, there's a possibility you're going to be hurt. I would submit to you that until we know more of the facts, it's very possible that they were - this was an appropriate use of force and a tragic accident.

For example, he could have fallen. You break your neck or you partially sever, it's a medical emergency. That's very easy to miss. A lot of people die that way. They're given CPR after an auto accident, for example, partially severed vertebrae, they're killed. So it could be something as simple as this or it could not be. It could be something far worse. We have to wait and see.

BALDWIN: But then their question is, why did it take 42 minutes for the medics to respond to him if he obviously had been injured? That's one of the questions (INAUDIBLE) police and maybe they'll address it in a little bit.

Staying with you, as a former officer, the other question is, if police documents say they pursued him because he ran, quote, "unprovoked" from them. So here's a guy -- I'm not familiar with this part of Baltimore, but I do know he has a criminal history. And they did ultimately, according to "The Sun," have a knife taped to his chest. But they didn't know that when they see him out there. They can know his history though. Why - if you see someone run away from you as a police officer, does that give you justification to grab them?

KATZ: Well, it certainly - it certainly suggested - suggestive enough to stop and say what - you know, because it's suggestive of some sort of - some possible criminal activity. So I understand the officer's trying to pursue, have some sort of interaction. It's far more likely that there was something observed that got the officer's attention. I don't know what that could be. They haven't released it. I don't know why it's taken them so long to at least put some information out there because the longer it goes, the more it fuels this kind of speculation. And we don't want that. If an officer did something wrong, they need to be held accountable. If they did not - if they did something that was within all these force guidelines, then they shouldn't be pilloried like this. We need to - basically we need to know a lot more before we rush to judgement.

BALDWIN: Reverend, let me come back to you. And I don't think anyone's rushing to judgment necessarily here, but I understand you're referring to what happened in North Charleston where the mayor, the police commissioner, the senators all came down on that before sundown that day. What do you want to hear from police and the mayor within the next hour?

WITHERSPOON: We want for - to hear that these officers have been fired. And we want for these officers to be charged with first-degree murder. Those charges, of course, can come from the state's attorney's office here in Baltimore.

And let me say this very quickly, if I can. You know, I live in the neighborhood. I'm not just a civil rights activist who works in Baltimore, but I live in the neighborhood where this transpired.

BALDWIN: This is your home.

WITHERSPOON: Absolutely. And the thing is, is that young African- American men are stopped and frisked every single day in that neighborhood. And they are - they're driving and they are stopped by the police. You have instances where people are taken into custody by the police and they are released with no release papers. You know, these stops are not substantiated with the proper stop documentation to say exactly why one was stopped by the police.

So, in my opinion, to hear that the police stopped somebody simply because - to hear that he ran from the police officers, I'm not surprised in this climate if he was potentially nervous that the police would kill him, especially with the incidents that have happened here in Baltimore, with the murder of Michael Brown in Missouri, with the murder of Trayvon Martin in Florida, with the murder of Eric Garner in New York. I'm not surprised that he would be nervous and potentially fearful and think that the police were trying to kill him.

[14:15:10] BALDWIN: Reverend Cortly Witherspoon, thank you so much, sir, for your time, from Baltimore, and, David Katz, thanks to you -- thank you very much as well.

KATZ: Sure.

BALDWIN: Again, that news conference happening live during the show. Stay with me as we hope for answers.

Just ahead, a suspect rushes a police officer, daring him to shoot. The rookie officer refuses. Is this an instance of police restraint, or was he risking too much here? Let's look into that.

Plus, as the United States is negotiating with Iran over nukes, an American reporter just charged with espionage. Could the White House use these talks as leverage for his release?

And as the feds bust more Americans allegedly trying to join ISIS. The terrorists taking their brutality to a whole new level, executing even more Christians.

You're watching CNN. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:02] BALDWIN: Just in to CNN here, we're hearing about tornado warnings for part of the city of Atlanta. Let me go live to our meteorologist there, Tom Sater.

Tom, tell me, where?

TOM SATER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: This is the in northern suburbs, Marietta and some other communities as well. And you well know this area, of course, Brooke, but this is the third tornado watch in just two days. And this is extends from the metro area of Atlanta to just to the west of Charlotte. This is until 8:00 p.m. But some of these thunderstorm cells are starting to produce some rotation. Therefore, the National Weather Service has issued a tornado warning in the northern suburbs. Again, it's not the metro area, but this is a highly populated area for counties such as DeKalb and Forsyth, Fulton, Gwinnett. It includes cities such as John's Creek, and Marietta, Roswell, and Sandy Springs.

Again, we're starting to see these storms move east-northeast at about 30 miles per hour. They are dropping quarter-size hail. And, Brooke, to let you know, these storms are stronger than the ones we had yesterday and this morning. And the city of Atlanta is mourning the death of a teacher when high winds took a tree and put it down on her home and took her life. So these are a little more potent as far as the severity and the spin. But as we watch these storms, most likely this is going to be just one of many in the hours ahead.

Again, it is the northern suburbs of Atlanta. This warning is in effect until 2:45. And again, we'll continue to watch these as they trek off to the east-northeast at 30 miles an hour.

Brooke, back to you.

BALDWIN: OK. That is awful, awful about that teacher. Please keep everyone - we'll stay warned for now. Tom Sater, thank you very much.

We do have some breaking news here. An American journalist, imprisoned in Tehran since last summer, has now been charged with espionage. This could mean 10, possibly 20 years in an Iranian prison. And for "The Washington Post" Tehran correspondent, Jason Rezaian, the White House is now responding, calling the charges "absurd," their word, in an interview with CNN. No one knows the dangers of being a journalist in Tehran better than my next guest here, "New York Times" bureau chief Thomas Erdbrink.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS ERDBRINK, TEHRAN BUREAU CHIEF, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": In this country, working as a western reporter is complicated. Sometimes I'm unpleasantly reminded of this fact. Like that morning in July when my friend and colleague Jason Rezaian of "The Washington Post" was arrested. Nobody knows why he's being held.

No, I will be able to file, of course. What else can we do?

Working here is like walking a tight rope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That's incredible, these video pieces you've been putting together. Thomas Erdbrink joins me now from "The New York Times."

And, Tom, it's wonderful to meet you and have you on. Thank you so much.

THOMAS ERDBRINK, TEHRAN BUREAU CHIEF, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Thank you.

Sort of fortuitous that we wanted to talk to you and here your friend - we're hearing now these reports of espionage. Local reports suggesting he worked undercover as a spy to provide data to the U.S. government. You're shaking your head. You think this is kind of crazy.

ERDBRINK: Well, look, Jason, above all, is not only my colleague but a very good friend. And I've seen his career blossom over the years. He got my job after I left "The Washington Post" for "The New York Times." He lived very close to me. We were very close friends. And he might have had a different approach to working in Iran -

BALDWIN: How do you mean? Be specific.

ERDBRINK: Well, he might have tried to engage more with officials or tried to engage more with people who in my view would never do anything for a western journalist when you're in trouble and that might have put him on the radar of certain people that are part of the Iranian system who are not in favor of ties with the west, who are not in favor of people like Foreign Minister Zarif, who are not in favor of a nuclear deal. So this is very dear to me. I was at his wedding. And today, to hear that Jason is accused of, you know, espionage, to me, is quite ridiculous.

BALDWIN: He's been, what, nine months away?

ERDBRINK: Yes, he's been in prison for nine months. We don't know where he's being held. We don't know under what circumstances he's being held. His wife has been released. She's afraid to talk to the media. So all in all, for him and his family, this is truly a horrible situation. It's also a horrible situation for journalism as a whole.

BALDWIN: I was about to say, does it make you at all frightened given what you - you've been in Tehran for 13 years.

ERDBRINK: Yes, I've been based there in the way someone would be based in Jerusalem or in Beirut. I - I have been very worried over the arrest of Mr. Rezaian. And, of course, when he was arrested, I made - I was in the Netherlands, where I'm originally from, on vacation. I made a point of going back to Tehran to show that me, and as far as I know Jason, are not doing anything wrong in Iran and we are just doing our job the way journalists are doing their job all over the world.

BALDWIN: Let me move off your friend now and just talk about this Iranian - the nuclear deal. Speaking of Americans being held there, could this not be leverage to get them released?

ERDBRINK: Well, of course, the enormous weight of the nuclear deal sort of, unfortunately, outweighs individuals like me or even more importantly so -

BALDWIN: Like Jason.

[14:25:00] ERDBRINK: Jason. This is a deal that thousands of people in several world capitals have been working on for years. And I'm sure that Secretary of State John Kerry raises Jason's case in the negotiations, but the Iranians say, of course these negotiations are not about individuals. They're only about the nuclear deal. And maybe in the future we can talk about other things. But I'm afraid Jason plays a very marginal role in these talks. And, therefore, also is not that much of a leverage, other than, of course, his arrest embarrasses those in Iran who want to have a nuclear deal or want to have ties with the west.

BALDWIN: And want to have a bigger role. I mean I was reading "The Times" this morning and knew I would be talking to you and read the opinion page. And speaking of the foreign minister, he penned something, let me just quote part of what he wrote, saying, we shouldn't just be talking about the nuclear deal. He wrote, "one cannot confront al Qaeda and its ideological siblings, such as the so- called Islamic state, which is neither Islamic nor a state, in Iraq, while effectively enabling their growth in Yemen and in Syria."

What - what's this about? I mean you covered the Iraq War.

ERDBRINK: Yes.

BALDWIN: What's this about? We talked a lot about the role of Iran in Iraq, in Yemen currently, and their emergence. They're hoping to be seen, right, as their emergence in this part of the world.

ERDBRINK: Yes. absolutely. And no one can deny Iran's growing footprint in the region. It's a footprint the Iranians like to say is based upon their growing power. You can also say that since the Americans have pulled out from the Middle East, there is a vacuum which the Iranians are conveniently stepping into. But what Foreign Minister Zarif is clearly saying here, here's dangling something in front of the Americans. He's saying, we can solve your problems in the Middle East, only if you trust us. But first, we want this nuclear deal solved.

BALDWIN: Trust, not a word the U.S. often uses with Iran, right?

Before I let you go, because I know we initially booked you to talk about your videos, your pieces.

ERDBRINK: Yes.

BALDWIN: Just quickly, and they are phenomenal on "The New York Times" website. Tell me just briefly this story about the woman with the makeup and the shirt, the morality police that exists in Iran.

ERDBRINK: Yes. Well, this series of videos is about to show daily life, normal people, normal issues in life in Iran. But one of these issues is the morality police that can arrest people for the way they dress. Like the way you are dressed, you would be arrested.

BALDWIN: This would be a no-no. I'd be arrested.

ERDBRINK: You would be arrested in Tehran. Yes.

BALDWIN: Shame on me. I'm in a spring dress.

ERDBRINK: Shame - yes. A spring dress and no scarf.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ERDBRINK: So to see my assistant now in (INAUDIBLE) but in the office normal - in a sort of - a coat being arrested, this is, of course, very difficult for her and it shows some of the problems Iranian women face.

BALDWIN: Thomas Erdbrink, "New York Times," thank you so much for taking the time with us. I really, really appreciate it and your perspective on your friend as well. Thank you.

ERDBRINK: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Next here on CNN, terror arrest in the homeland. A half dozen suspects arrested in Minnesota and California, accused of plotting to support ISIS. All of this as grim video emerges of the terror group targeting and killing Christians in two different parts of Libya. One of our favorite experts will be joining me next on that.

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