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Baltimore Investigates Police Suspect's Death; U.S. Warships Move to Block Iranian Weapons. Aired 15-15:30p ET

Aired April 21, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00] LAURIE SEGALL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, you know, I think it's almost this idea that, like, nostalgia sells. We are just seeing so much of this. I can't wait to watch it.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I mean, I think we're the perfect -- I'm 35, born in '79.

SEGALL: Yes.

BALDWIN: This was like the jam for me on a Friday night, eating Domino's pizza and watching "TGIF" with my little brother. And, so, yes, I will definitely be checking out "Fuller House."

Laurie Segall, we have to go. We will talk more about this off camera, I'm sure.

SEGALL: Of course.

BALDWIN: Let's begin the next hour.

All right. Hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And right now, we are watching what could fast become a confrontation in the waters off of Yemen's coast. U.S. and Iranian ships are soon expected to be in sight of each other along with naval vessels from key U.S. allies, all with the goal here of blocking any attempt Iran may make to deliver weapons to Houthis.

That is the rebel group in Yemen that's in this current battle to take over the country. They have already forced out the Yemeni president, president and a government, mind you, backed by the United States, backed by Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UAE. But the Houthi rebels have an ally as well, Iran.

So, joining me now, Fred Pleitgen, who is watching all of this from the Iranian capital of Tehran.

Fred, we're now getting some breaking news, if you can fill me in here on Saudi Arabia's involvement in this entire conflict in Yemen.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNTIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely.

The Saudis have announced an end to end to the bombing campaign that they're leading. They have said on their state television network saying that Operation Decisive Storm, which is what the bombing campaign is known as, will be over by day's end, saying they have achieved all of their objections and that now the operation Restoring Hope will spring into action.

They haven't exactly said what that new operation is going to be like, whether it's going to be some sort of political dialogue that might begin between the factions in Yemen. But it does seem as though the bombing campaign that's been going on for about a month is about to end, Brooke.

BALDWIN: That's significant. Also significant, as you have been speaking to Iranian officials, I want you to tell me what they're telling you about this potential, let me say that again, potential confrontation in the waters off of Yemen.

PLEITGEN: It's so interesting to be in Iran at this point in time, because there are such varying opinions and it seems as though the Iranians are trying to compartmentalize their relations with the United States.

On the one hand, you have the nuclear program and the talks about that, where they're trying to find some sort of solution. Then, of course, you do have the conflict that's going on, especially in and around Yemen, but also how to deal with ISIS as well. The Iranians were saying for their part that they believe that, for instance, in the fight against ISIS, that they are the ones who are making headway, that they still don't trust United States.

However, with the thaw that is going on because of the nuclear program, there was also some conciliatory language. And I was actually at the national army day brigade and I was able to speak to the commander of Iran's ground forces. What he had to say maybe was quite remarkable. Let's have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. AHMAD REZA POURDASTAN, IRANIAN COMMANDER (through translator): We consider the people of the United States to be good people, kind people, and very hospitable people. And we would very much like for the relations between the two countries to expand. And God willing, the United States will stay true to its commitments, and we hope that all of the P5-plus-one countries will carry out their promises.

And we hope that this could pave the way for the two nations to expand their relations so that they could have logical, scientific, and cultural relations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: As you hear, there's some softer language than you would normally hear at an event like this. There were also those usual harsh tones that you hear there, death to America, at that parade as well.

As far as that -- the Gulf of Aden is concerned, as far as the Yemeni -- as the Iranian ships there is concerned, the Iranians are saying the reason why they have ships in that area, Brooke, is because they are an anti-piracy mission there, that they're fighting against piracy in the Gulf of Aden, also near the Somali coast. They say they have absolutely no intention of bringing their ships into Yemeni waters -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, Fred Pleitgen, you very much in Tehran.

Iran, again, breaking news just into us here at CNN, that Saudi Arabia state TV is reporting the country is pulling out of the fight in Yemen. A huge development that appears to mean the end of the bombing campaign that some say was the only thing really holding those Houthi rebels back from a complete takeover from this country.

Thomas Erdbrink good enough to be back with me, second day this week, Tehran bureau chief for "The New York Times."

Just springboarding off what Fred just said, that Iran is saying the reason they would be in that neck of the woods in the water would be an anti-piracy mission, do you buy that?

THOMAS ERDBRINK, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Actually, I do, not because I'm very gullible, but because the Iranians have had around 30 anti- piracy missions as part of the international efforts to stop pirates in the Horn of Africa, to be present in the region.

And we must also put this a little bit into perspective.

BALDWIN: Please do.

ERDBRINK: Iranian ships are not like the mighty U.S...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Totally different in might and muscle.

[15:05:02]

ERDBRINK: These are very small and modest ships that really are under so much international scrutiny, they cannot do that much. This morning on FOX News, I heard that there were 79 Iranian ships on their way to Yemen.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: No, it's seven to nine.

ERDBRINK: Exactly. Well, I just think it's only a handful. And I don't want in any way to tone down the threat. But there needs to be perspective. And it's just not that big.

BALDWIN: I appreciate you checking that out. I also talked to a lieutenant, retired lieutenant commander last hour. And he was like, I cannot imagine the whole notion if these Iranian vessels start seeing the U.S. might and the coalition, he said to me, there would likely be a U-turn. That was from someone from the Navy, so sort of corroborating what you're saying. Let's talk about also just the complexities of the relationship

between the U.S. and Iran, because you have Iran citing and supporting the Houthis, therefore, fighting against Saudi Arabia, which would then be fighting against the United States as the U.S. ally at the same time. You have somewhat friendly, friendly terms with this negotiation, Iran over the nuclear talks with the United States.

And I guess my question would be do you think what's happening here in Yemen, and especially learning that Saudi Arabia would be pulling out of those airstrikes, what's happening there, do you think that will ultimately affect the deadline on the nuke talks come June?

ERDBRINK: One thing is very interesting that this morning, one of Iran's deputy foreign ministers predicted this cease-fire to happen. And this shows the -- that there are some talks going on in the region even between these two archenemies, Saudi Arabia and Iran. We have seen a terrible increase in tensions between these two nations.

And the Iranians this morning said there will be a cease-fire a lot of people took it with a lot of skepticism. But now the Saudis themselves are announcing it on their state TV. This shows at least that on all these levels, on the complex situation in the region, where certain countries are in competition with each other, but at the same time, during these nuclear talks when Iran is talking to the United States, a key ally of the Saudis, that there are some back- channel talks going on, that they have at least managed to for now possibly down-tone the crisis in Yemen.

BALDWIN: Interesting. That's totally interesting. What about -- let me play a clip -- we have been talking about how you have been doing these wonderful videos at newyorktimes.com. Let's just play one more clip and then we will talk on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERDBRINK: The weekly Friday prayers have long dominated the image of Iran, and despite the recent attempts to mend ties with the West, it is still business as usual here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Thirty years ago, Imam Khomeini told us we shouldn't have any contact with the U.S. The reason was that America is the big Satan. If you chant death to America, they will be lonely and sick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That's a perfect flip to my next question, because I was reading that the ayatollah hasn't actually left Iran since 1989.

A lot of people in Iran still consider America the great Satan. But then you have the American educated foreign minister, who is part of the negotiations with the United States. Can you just explain to all of us the difference between the hard-liners and those around the table?

ERDBRINK: Yes. Well, I would just like to correct you on one point. It's not that all Iranians think that America is the Satan.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: No, no, not all Iranians, no, no.

(CROSSTALK)

ERDBRINK: ... has changed a lot

BALDWIN: Some do.

ERDBRINK: Iran's power structure is clearly making a choice toward the future. These talks are being supported by the ayatollah, who hasn't left the country in many, many years, but still thinks that these talks need to have a chance.

The people he's putting forward, like Foreign Minister Zarif, this English-speaking, American-educated -- he lived 30 years right here in New York City. And he is the -- sort of the key figure in these talks, and he is clearly being told that the country must move forward. And this deal probably must get a very fair chance.

The hard-liners who are still around, as you see in the Friday prayers and the like, like portrayed in the clip on newyorktimes.com. They are for now buying that line. Short of agreeing with it, yes, America continues to be a big Satan. But, OK, we do some negotiating with the big Satan. What is the problem?

BALDWIN: We can negotiate with the big Satan, the great Satan.

Thomas Erdbrink, thank you very much. Again, watch his clips on "The New York Times" Web site. Thank you very, very much for coming in another day.

We are now learning -- let's pivot to this -- we're now learning how, a little bit more detail here about the 25-year-old in Baltimore who lost his life a week ago, Freddie Gray. He was arrested in Baltimore, may have had a severed spine. Next, hear from a Baltimore reporter who has investigated police abuse in Baltimore and discovered the department has paid millions in settlements. He will join me live on that really significant investigation.

Also, a former soccer coach to the younger of the Boston bombers, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, talks about this convicted killer was like as a teenager and whether he thinks he should receive the death penalty.

[15:10:04]

And new images show hundreds of refugees crammed onto a boat, paying thousands of dollars each, and risking their lives on the Mediterranean Sea. Stay with me. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. let's get to the mystery death of a man in Baltimore police custody. The autopsy on Freddie Gray is now complete. The names of the officers involved in his arrest have been released. But more information has not yet led to any more clarity on how the 25-year-old suspect broke his neck after Baltimore police arrested him April 12. He died a week later. The department has suspended these six officers with pay. But officials did not specify on the reasons why.

However, the mayor of the city of Baltimore did share this with CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE (D), MAYOR OF BALTIMORE, MARYLAND: We know that he asked for medical attention. We know that that medical attention was not immediately requested for him. We know that was a mistake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:15:04]

BALDWIN: That conclusion based on the fact that Gray asked for medical help more than once while being transported in that van. But officials say they do not know or when Gray's spinal cord was severed. Was it before or after he got in the van? They're not saying.

What is more, Gray's autopsy revealed his spinal injury was the only trauma to his body.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY RODRIGUEZ, BALTIMORE DEPUTY POLICE COMMISSIONER: There was no physical bodily injury that we saw, nor was it evident in the autopsy of Mr. Gray. None of his limbs were broken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This is far from the first time Baltimore police have been accused of excessive force. In fact, an investigation by "The Baltimore Sun" found that since 2011, the city of Baltimore has paid out close to $6 million in court judgments or settlements to victim of police abuse here. Nearly another $6 million was spent on the legal fees for all of these cases that are scrolling on your screen.

With me now, the reporter behind the "Sun" investigation, Mark Puente.

Mark, thank you so much for coming on.

MARK PUENTE, "THE BALTIMORE SUN": Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: So what kinds of stories did you hear from these victims? I mean, what ultimately was the issue with all of these cases involving police?

PUENTE: The issue was there wasn't much oversight within the Baltimore Police Department when there was allegations of abuse by officers.

Our investigation found that in 102 lawsuits, similarities emerged pretty fast. Officers made questionable arrests, and there was battered bones, broken faces, broken arms, severe injuries. They were all charged with similar crimes, obstruction, hindering, disorderly, assault on a law enforcement officer. Most charges in all cases were subsequently dropped.

Most victims were African-Americans. And they later sued. And they collected either through a settlement or a jury verdict. Our investigation further found that the department didn't track that multiple officers had been sued several times and the city has paid out multiple claims at the same time for each officer without knowing about it. There was many gaps in the system.

BALDWIN: So now I know the Department of Justice is investigating, right, because of what you all were able to do at the newspaper. Also related to this current case, Baltimore police, have they since released the names of those six officers suspended because of Freddie Gray's death?

In your investigation, Mark, are other officers accused in these lawsuits? Are they held accountable? I mean, what happens to them?

PUENTE: In our investigation, very -- we couldn't find any examples where officers were held accountable. The department's own strategic plan says discipline has never been a priority within its department.

Like I said, there was no tracking mechanism. Many officers never filed use of force reports or many complaints of forced were never investigated by internal affairs. Internal affairs has lots of problems. And the commissioner and the mayor have vowed to clean up that bureau and make it more accountable to the officers and residents.

BALDWIN: Speaking of the mayor, because the obvious follow-up question is, well, have you seen progress since this investigation? This is what she just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: We have a very challenging history in Baltimore when it comes to police misconduct, brutality. And I, as mayor, have been determined to make progress. The number of lawsuits brought against the city, against police department under my administration has gone down, discourtesy complaints, excessive force complaints be all gone down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: She says it's gone down. Mark, has it gone down? How's the progress been?

PUENTE: Well, they have come out and got out in front of everything and said they're going to be more transparent and accountable. When the mayor and commissioner cite that the lawsuits have -- went down, they're not saying that there was almost 160 filed in 2013 and 2014.

These could play out for years in the court system. These payouts could take another four or five years. And more cases will in all likelihood come through the system. It will be a longtime process.

BALDWIN: Mark Puente with "The Baltimore Sun," thank you so much, sir.

PUENTE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Next, the death penalty phase has begun in the Boston bomber's trial. Coming up, we will talk to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's former soccer coach about what Tsarnaev was like in high school and if he should get the death penalty.

Plus, nearly 24 hours after the Boston Marathon began yesterday, I mean, what a finish here. This was 5:00 this morning. This man with muscular dystrophy crossed the finish line -- what he said after breaking through the tape just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:42]

BALDWIN: Will the Boston bomber live or die? The penalty phase for convicted killer Dzhokhar Tsarnaev began today in federal court in Boston. The same jury that passed down guilty verdicts on all 30 charges has been hearing witness accounts this morning. There was a double amputee recalling blood-curdling screams, and in their opening statement, prosecutors called Tsarnaev "unrepentant."

With me now, someone who knew the Boston bomber. Luis Vasquez was Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's soccer coach and was a high school classmate of his big brother, Tamerlan. He now writes for "The Cambridge Chronicle."

Luis, welcome.

LUIS VASQUEZ, FORMER SOCCER COACH OF DZHOKHAR TSARNAEV: Thanks for having me on.

BALDWIN: Let's begin with this picture, the sketch that was shown in court today. This is from when he was in his holding cell. This is July of 2013. And they are showing him. You can see he's flipping off, I don't know, the surveillance camera in that prison.

You coached him some years ago. Does this fall in line, this sort of action fall in line with the Dzhokhar Tsarnaev that you knew?

VASQUEZ: Absolutely not. What we're seeing right now is a rebel.

The guy I knew was a middle-of-the-pack kind of guy. We had a strictly player/coach relationship at the time. I never saw any signs or shadows of what came to be. I believe that he did this in a state of vulnerability, in a state of having to come to realize what is happening in the aftermath of the attack shortly after. What he's doing now is really flipping himself off. This may be his downfall between life and death.

[15:25:12]

BALDWIN: Take me back, though. As you were coaching him on the soccer field, what kind of player was he? What kind of kid of he with his peers?

VASQUEZ: Again, just a middle-of-the-pack kind of guy. He wasn't the best, he wasn't the worst. He wasn't the friendliest guy and he wasn't the meanest. He was just there. He worked hard like the rest of the team. That team had coaches that set a high standard, and they were happy to fulfill it. He was a team player, which is unfortunate, because then they fell into something very evil and turning their backs on our city.

BALDWIN: You know, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's lead defense lawyer is definitely expected to make it out it was his older brother's influence over him, that, therefore, he should avoid death in this penalty phase. And you knew Tamerlan separately.

You never were with them together. But can you just -- what can you share just about the relationship that these brothers had?

VASQUEZ: What I can say is that Tamerlan had a strong hold on the leadership position between himself and his siblings. He viewed himself as a leader in the household. We don't exactly know the factors that played into that, but he embraced that role and he took it very seriously.

In terms of having to transition into American culture, he was far behind compared to his siblings, and it was pretty evident when he came down on them for certain things and just the importance was clearly seen of having to follow the rules or the -- quote, unquote -- "policies of their religion."

BALDWIN: You pose a question in one of your columns, is the younger Tsarnaev paying for the sins of his brother? What do you think?

VASQUEZ: I think he is. And that term shouldn't be taken lightly.

What we can't fail to realize is that, yes, he is an active participant. He made his own decision to participate in this. However, with the team putting the blame on the dead older brother, that's pretty easy to do. Someone has to pay the price for this, and someone has to be made an example out of. And it's going to be him. So he is paying for the sins of his brothers, in addition to his own.

BALDWIN: He put a bomb on the ground, that pressure cooker on Boylston Street, fact.

VASQUEZ: Yes.

BALDWIN: When you talk about...

(CROSSTALK) BALDWIN: No, no, no, no, when you talk about paying a price and we have heard different things from different family members of victims or survivors, there was this opinion piece in "The Globe" last week from Mariner Richard's parents not wanting the death penalty. They don't want to constantly relive this as those appeals will continue.

Others say absolutely he should die. What do you think? This is someone you coached. Do you think he should -- do you think he should receive the death penalty?

VASQUEZ: Well, in the case of Tamerlan and Dzhokhar, the marathon bombers, no longer alleged, these aren't the people that I once knew. And so the crime doesn't fit the memories is what I have been saying all along.

However, what we have seen in the grand scale of things, we have a country that's divided right now. I think it's important to realize, to look at both ends of things. If we kill him, he may have already come to terms that that's what his fate is going to be. And if he goes out with pride, that's going to be a problem because then he will become a symbol in -- quote, unquote -- "radical Islam."

And we don't want that; we don't want him to become a symbol and to go out with pride. The death penalty would be the easy way out for him. If he gets to live, he will live out rest of his life in a max security prison in a cell where the walls are closing on him in every single night and his brother is no longer there to save him.

BALDWIN: Do you hope in your heart of hearts that that's what happens? He is in prison for rest of his life?

VASQUEZ: I absolutely do. He needs to pay for what he did. He needs to pay for destroying and for betraying a community.

We took him in, in terms of Cambridge and the whole Boston area community, and so did the whole country. And he hurt a lot of people. And we can't forget about the hurt that they caused. And I believe that last year's Boston Marathon was about resilience and recovery, whereas this year we were able to demonstrate to the world that we have come full circle, and especially with the ending that you guys just spoke about early this morning, at approximately 4:00 or 5:00 a.m., with Maickel Melamed, that was incredibly inspirational and that was a great way to cap off the marathon.

I am actually running off two hours' sleep. I was compelled to go side by side with him to help him finish.

BALDWIN: Did you really?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Well, we're about to show that. I love that you showed up to join me today.

VASQUEZ: Yes.

BALDWIN: And I really appreciate it. It's such an incredibly compelling -- a compelling story.

VASQUEZ: Absolutely. Yes.

BALDWIN: Luis Vasquez, thank you so much.

VASQUEZ: No problem.

BALDWIN: And let's stop talking about the killer here, because I want to talk about who Luis was with in the wee hours this morning.