Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Hinckley Hearing; Freddie Gray's Death Sparking Protests; Dr. Oz: "I Will Not Be Silenced"; 2,000 Cruise Passengers Stuck at Stormy Sea. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 22, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] ARTHUR LAFFER, FORMER ECONOMIC ADVISER TO PRES. REAGAN: But I did work very, very closely with Jim Brady and with Ronald Reagan and loved them both very much. And, you know, that day was a horrific day. I mean I can't tell you the sense of despair. But as it turned out for Jim Brady, things never got better. He never came back to normal. It was horrible for him for the rest of his life.

But for Ronald Reagan, America was very fortunate. I mean, he came back to full stride, and, in some sense, you might even say that this event made him even stronger and made him more capable of governing well, and he did. He did a great job afterwards. I've -- there were a couple of very fun stories about him when he was using his rowing machine and exercising and coming back to full health, and he would have people check at how -- just how big his pectoral muscles had grown. It was -- I mean very much of a human. A very lovely man, Ronald Reagan was.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely.

LAFFER: And seeing him come back to health gave us great hope for the future and --

COSTELLO: Absolutely. But on the other hand, I remember that day very clearly and what it did to the country at that time.

LAFFER: Horrible.

COSTELLO: And I think sometimes it's easy to forget because it happened so long ago. The scar it left on all of us who lived through that moment when Reagan was shot.

LAFFER: Yes. And I didn't even realize how close it had been to him actually dying until later. I mean, you know, and then once you realize how close he had been to death, it was just terrifying. It was -- it was very frightening about the future and what the loss would have been for America.

I remember John F. Kennedy's assassination and just how awful that was for America. And it would have been equally as bad with Reagan.

COSTELLO: So when you hear stories about John Hinckley driving around in his Toyota and going to movies and eating at Wendy's, what goes through your mind? LAFFER: Well, it -- no much in that regard. I mean that's up to the

judge and up to the people there involved. I mean if you wanted to get someone who really has strong -- I think Patti Davis Reagan is the person to ask, or Mrs. Reagan. I'm not the one to cast aspersions on him. Although what I would say, Carol, is, if something ever untoward occurred with regard to Hinckley in the future, there would be enormous recriminations. I, you know, I just hope that they have used very, very careful judgment to make sure that nothing ever happens again.

COSTELLO: I think some people might think that there's a line and the judge should follow the law, of course. But this man shot the president of the United States. And because he shot the president of the United States, he shouldn't get any breaks like this. He should spend the rest of his life in custody.

LAFFER: Well, I'm not a lawyer in this and I'm not a psychiatrist either to be honest with you.

COSTELLO: Well, just as a human being, what do you think?

LAFFER: But per -- I, you know, I think the courts are doing the right thing, to be honest with you. If he has -- if he's come back, if he's sorry for what happened, if he's a different person than he was, I mean, I'm not here to issue bad things about him. I mean what he did 30 some years ago was horrible. I don't know John Hinckley today. And if the courts see it possible for him to be rehabilitated in any way, shape or form, God bless him.

COSTELLO: All right, Arthur Laffer, a former economic advisor to President Reagan. Thank you so much for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.

LAFFER: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, what happened to Freddie Gray in the back of that police van? Brian Todd has more on that Baltimore man who died in police custody, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:37:10] COSTELLO: Emotions still raw in Baltimore today where protesters are expected to gather once again in front of a city police station demanding answers in the death of Freddie Gray. Brian Todd takes a look at some of the critical questions in that case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah! Ah!

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The inconsistencies begin outside the police van. Freddie Gray's body is limp. A witness yells to officers, he can't support himself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His leg's broker. Ya'll, his leg (INAUDIBLE). TODD: But the mayor and police cite this frame of video, claiming Gary was using his legs when he got to the van. They say when he got in, he was able bodied. Able to talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None of the officers described using any force against Mr. Gray.

TODD: Witnesses say they saw something rougher.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They flipped him over and they put both knees on his back, and held him there until the cruiser came to pick him up.

TODD: Later, when Gray was taken out of the van, less than an hour after he got in, he couldn't breathe or talk. He lapsed into a coma and died of week later of a severe spinal cord injury. The critical questions remaining, what caused his injury and what happened inside the police van?

Police say Gray asked for an inhaler about the same time he got in the van at 8:42 a.m. on April 12th. Less than four minutes later, the van stopped. The van operator says Gray was irate. He was placed in leg irons. It's one of at least two stops the van made with Gray inside. Another was to pick up another suspect. Police say the two were separated by a metal barrier.

WILLIAM MURPHY JR., GRAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: We learned for the first time that at some point, probably right before he was sent to the hospital, there was a second person in the van. Well, that's a curious thing. And we heard that he was separated by some kind of screen, but did he hear anything? What did he say?

TODD: Law enforcement veterans say investigators will be talking to that second passenger whose testimony will be crucial and to the van operator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So far I haven't heard the allegation that the brakes were deliberately applied. But, yes, they would need to look into the question of how the van was being operated and whether brakes were applied and at what points. And also how he may have been seat belted or secured in the van, if he was.

TODD: Another key question, why it took so long for Gray to get medical attention. About 42 minutes elapsed between the time Gray was put into the police van and when a medic was called. Baltimore's mayor now says that was too much time. A mistake.

TODD (on camera): We pressed Baltimore Police on those two questions, the conduct of the van operator and what the second passenger in the van said about what happened. They declined to answer those questions citing the ongoing investigation. But those unanswered questions are why protesters are gathering here in Washington and in Baltimore.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COSTELLO: And we'll continue our coverage of this story in the next hour when I talk to Congressman John Conyers about his bill to end racial profiling in this country. That's coming up in the 10:00 Eastern hour of NEWSROOM.

[09:40:08] I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Dr. Oz digging in his heels, refusing to back down amid claims he's pushing quack treatments. He's spending a large chunk of his show tomorrow answering his critics, addressing the group of physicians urging Columbia University to fire him. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. OZ: Now this month we celebrate my 1,000th show. And I know I've irritated some potential allies in our quest to make America healthy. No matter our disagreements, freedom of speech is the most fundamental right we have as Americans. And these 10 doctors are trying to silence that right. So I vow to you right here, right now, we will not be silenced, we will not give in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. I'm stymied by that. Brian Stelter is here, our senior media correspondent.

How exactly are these doctors trying to like take away Dr. Oz's First Amendment rights? They don't want his show canceled.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It is eye-opening how he's reframing the debate, isn't it? You're right, they have not called for his show to be taken off the air or effected at all. They are talking about his academic credentials, his credentials at Columbia University, where he's a vice chair of one of the medical departments. They say that's what's inappropriate. But as you know, Columbia has already supported him, says there's no intent to change that.

So this is essentially a fight that happens in the court of public opinion now. And Dr. Oz is trying to frame it about being about his First Amendment rights. Obviously freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism. And we will see how much more on his show tomorrow he actually goes after his critics directly. But my impression is, he does want to make this rather personal. He thinks these doctors are going at him for very personal reasons because they've got financial interests against him. So we'll see how personal it really gets.

COSTELLO: He also keeps talking that this is about genetically altered or modified foods, right, but that's not all this is about?

[09:45:06] STELTER: Yes, to him, this is his strongest stance he can take and that's why you hear him say in there I will not be silenced. He has taking a position on GMOs, genetically modified foods. You know, a lot of corn, soybeans, other products we eat every day, we don't even realize in some cases are genetically modified. He says these should be labeled, as they are in some other countries. Said there should be more proper labeling.

He says some of these doctors that are against him actually have ties to the GMO industry and that's why they're criticizing him. And it's true that in the letter to the Columbia, GMOs came up. But other issues also came up. He says one of the messages you're going to hear on the show tomorrow is "I will not stop fighting for your right to know what's in your food." So he wants to make it about this GMO issue.

But the truth is, Carol, this is also --

COSTELLO: Did he forget his Senate appearance?

STELTER: Well, that's the thing. There has been these other critiques of Dr. Oz, like before the Congress last year. They went after him on the green coffee bean extract issue and that was a pretty legitimate case. I think Dr. Oz then had to come out later and say, you know, the study we based our report on telling you about this magical cure, about green coffee beans, actually that study was retracted and more research needs to be done.

Fundamentally, the medical experts we see on TV, the doctors we see on TV, it's pretty basic advice we need to hear from them. And I think what we're going to hear from Dr. Oz, that he wants to get back to the basics. He knows maybe there were segments maybe a little quackery, maybe a little bit -- what's the verb for that? Maybe a little bit quacked?

COSTELLO: Quackified? I don't know.

STELTER: But if you talk to his folks privately, they'll say we want to get back to the basics because we know some of this more out there stuff can get us into trouble and has in the past. And that might be an example where freedom of speech is very valuable, because these critics might be helping to cause a course correction that's totally appropriate for him.

COSTELLO: So get on the phone with Dr. Oz and try to convince him of that.

STELTER: Well, we'll see what happens with Columbia and with these doctors. I'm hoping these ten doctors now respond because we haven't heard from them since last week.

COSTELLO: Brian Stelter, thanks as always. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, two days of terror, more 2,000 cruise ship passengers trapped in a deadly storm. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:50:34] COSTELLO: Some top stories for you now at 50 minutes past the hour.

Two unknown D.C. metro riders being hailed as heroes after a saving a man who fell from the train platform. Here's the surveillance video. You can see the man in the wheelchair fall onto the tracks. Now, without any hesitation whatsoever, a bystander drops his bags and jumps down to help. Moments later, another person jumps down to help lift the man to safety. All three people OK this morning.

A drone lands on the roof of the Japanese prime minister's office and it contains radioactive material. Tokyo police say the drone was outfitted with a camera, a smoke bomb, and a bottle with small traces of radioactive material. But Prime Minister Abe was not in his office at the time. He's actually out of the country attending a conference in Indonesia.

And just the video is enough to make you sick. A cruise ship stuck in a deadly storm battered by giant swells. The entire ordeal lasting two days. This morning all are back on dry land. Ivan Watson has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Horror off the coast of Australia. This is the view of over 2,000 passengers stranded on a Carnival cruise ship near Sydney. The east coast of the country slammed by a once in a decade deadly storm.

The waves up to 30 feet high with wind surpassing 60 miles an hour, forcing the ship packed with 800 children to stay outside the harbor overnight on Tuesday. Sydney officials say it was too risky.

CAPTAIN PHILIP HOLLIDAY, SYDNEY HARBORMASTER: This is the first time I've closed the port. This is the first time I've ever refused entry to a cruise ship.

WATSON: Passengers back on land Wednesday morning describe a nightmare.

ATHANASIA GEORGOUDAKIS, PASENGER: I've been on a cruise before and I never had this experience in my whole entire life. I was petrified.

WATSON: The Carnival company no stranger to stranded cruise liners.

In 2010, Carnival Splendor was left off the coast of San Diego for three days due to an engine fire. And in 2013, Carnival Triumph suffered a similar fate in the Gulf of Mexico, leaving passengers helpless for nearly a week.

But this time, the massive storm whipping Australia's coastline, banging fishing boats against the shore and sweeping entire homes off their foundation, is the reason Carnival cruise line's vice president says this delay was unavoidable.

Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Coming up at the top of the hour, French prosecutors are expected to speak about that foiled terror attack. Here's what we know about it so far. Government officials say a 24-year-old man was planning to strike one or two churches in suburban Paris and then travel to Syria. He's also been linked to the weekend killing of a woman. According to our affiliates, police searched the suspect's parents' home and sister's homes this morning. We're going to take you live to Paris when the prosecutor's press conference starts.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grecia is in Costa Rica's central valley.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never imagined living any place other than the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We pretty much feel like home is where you make it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're Dave and Marcia (ph) Murray and we're living in the beautiful mountains of Costa Rica in wonderful retirement.

Both Dave and I worked for the State of Michigan approximately 30 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing that people can do for their long-term welfare is as important as starting to save early, because what a few dollars saved each week or each month will do for you in retirement, it's a matter of buying your own freedom.

Well, we bought 3.5 acres of farmland already planted in coffee and here we are.

(LAUGHTER)

UNDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our houses are surrounded by coffee plants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The coffee itself is beautiful. It holds the land. Cultivating the coffee provides work and income for some of our neighbors.

[09:55:06] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three times a year they come and they pick the coffee, which then they sell to a co-op here in Grecia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There seems to be good research that says learning a second language as you get older keeps your mind sharp. I think that same thing may apply to going to an entirely different environment. It's a challenge, but I think that's refreshing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, protesters swarm the streets of Baltimore after the death of a man in police custody. Now the Justice Department is investigating, but the family is already questioning the outcome.

Plus, anger and emotion in a Boston courtroom. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev shown giving the finger to cameras. Plus the moment that brought jurors to tears.

And cameras rolling: a U.S. marshal seen smacking a phone from a woman who hit the record button. Now she's suing.

[10:00:02] We'll tell you why. Let's talk live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(MUSIC)