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Emergency Landing in New York; New Video in Gray Arrest. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 22, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:02] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Let's get straight to this breaking news here on this afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here's what we know. This United express plane, it was leaving Chicago's O'Hare Airport just a couple of hours ago. It had to be diverted to Buffalo, New York, and made this emergency landing after a passenger lost consciousness. So let's begin with what we know. Jean Casarez is with me here. And we're now hearing from the FAA, Jean, they're officially reporting it was a pressurization problem.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We just got that in. A pressurization problem. But here's what we know. It was United Flight number 5622. It left Chicago this morning at 9:32 a.m. It was bound for Connecticut. And it made that emergency landing in Buffalo, New York, at 11:40. We originally heard because a passenger lost consciousness. Now we are hearing that there was that pressurization problem.

We are also learning from Flight Trader 24 some more information. And this is according to them. That there was steep descent of that aircraft. And it took from 38,000 feet to 10,000 feet in about three minutes. But what we're learning now, one person, loss of consciousness. So that emergency landing was made in Buffalo. That person was treated with emergency personnel. They were released. And now the issue is 75 more passengers getting to Hartford, Connecticut.

BALDWIN: OK, stay with me, Jean Casarez, as you get more information. David Soucie, one of our aviation analysts, pilot, joining me now.

And, David Soucie, a couple - a couple points here as we're getting all this. Number one, when you hear pressurization problem, what does that tell you?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN AVIATION ANALYST (via telephone): Well, what it tells me is that the pressurization inside the cabin has gotten above what is normally able to breathe for a passenger. So the descent that they described just now would be indicative of a loss of pressurization and the aircraft getting down to 10,000 feet as quickly as possible, where the - where the passengers would be - have breathable oxygen and normal pressurization. So that does indicate that there was that lack of pressurization.

What's concerning is that one of the passengers did lose consciousness and we don't know yet enough to know whether that was from the fact the - that they had lost consciousness due to the lack of oxygen, if they didn't put their mask on, as was directed, I'm sure. That could have been part of that. But that - we'll wait to see what happens with that passenger.

BALDWIN: And again, it could be one, it could be more, but right now CNN is reporting one passenger who lost consciousness.

SOUCIE: Yes.

BALDWIN: And again, just to be clear to everyone, this plane landed safely in Buffalo. They're working to transport those 75 passengers and get them on their way.

But back to the point, if this plane is cruising along at 38,000 feet - so, again, 38,000, dips down to 10,000 in three minutes. And when we're talking about pressurization issues at that altitude, what - what could possibly happen to lead to that?

SOUCIE: Well, there's a couple of things that could lead to that. One of them would be the safety valve or the pressurization valve that regulates the amount of air that goes outside of the cabin. That can cause that to happen. The other thing that might happen is in the pressurized section of the - of the cargo section, if a door is not secured properly or if it does come off in flight, then I've seen that - we've seen that happen before as well, where the pressurization drops quickly.

Now, it could just be precautionary as well. If pressurization was simply not maintaining the pressure that it's intended to, as you cruise to that altitude and you start losing pressure, then you would still react in the same way because you don't know if it's going to be, you know, a sudden depressurization or what we call an explosive depressurization or if it's just going to be a slow decompression. So, either way, you would make those precautionary measures. So it appears that the pilot acted appropriately no matter what happened on board.

BALDWIN: To your point about the cargo section and possibly a door, I'm just glancing down at my e-mails because we have a little bit more from the FAA filling in some of the gaps here. When asked about reports of an open door midair, the FAA spokesperson says they're investigating but cannot confirm.

SOUCIE: Right.

BALDWIN: David Soucie, stand by.

Mary Schiavo, let me bring you in as well. As an investigator too, looking at this, when you hear all these just few, few details - I mean this is - this is just happening. How do you read this?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, two important points. And David's absolutely right. If this is a situation which was first reported that there was a door opening in flight or lack of a door seal, it's extremely rare but extremely dangerous. There have been flights in the past where the opening of a door in flight has actually brought down the plane. And because there are warning devices on the doors before they, you know, taxi and take out whether that door is properly secured or not, this would be one of those situations where the FAA should issue an emergency air waves directive and these planes should be grounded until those doors can all be inspected because that is a very, very rare and very, very dangerous event and it would indicate something seriously wrong with the plane. No warning lights about the door before takeoff.

[14:05:04] If it's a lack of pressurization in flight, again, we all harken back to the Payne Stewart event, and David's right, it could be an outflow valve. It could be a number of things that could lead to that. But that would, of course, cause the planes to be inspected too. But if it's a door failure, hugely dangerous, hugely important.

BALDWIN: OK. And, Mary, when you hear that it was at 38,000 feet, drops all the way down to 10,000 in three minutes, I'm just thinking about the 75 people on board and I'm wondering, what would that feel like?

SCHIAVO: It would feel like a roller coaster.

BALDWIN: It would?

SCHIAVO: When you're going - coming over the top and you're going down. That is - that is far greater than the rate of descent for this plane. Obviously, the plane could withstand it. It's beyond the envelope of what you need to do. So you know that these pilots knew they were in a very grave and very serious situation. Obviously they still maintained their oxygen or were able to get their oxygen masks on quickly enough to fly the plane. That's also hugely, you know, fortunate that they were trained and able to do that because they, too, could have been subjected to this loss of pressurization and affected by it. So, all in all, given the severity of the situation, it's fortunate they got the plane on the ground in one piece and that everybody apparently is going to be fine.

BALDWIN: Thank goodness.

Les Abend, let me just bring your voice to this - to this conversation, a 777 airline pilot. And I'm wondering, what's happening from the pilot perspective? What's happening in the cockpit when all this is going down?

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST (via telephone): Yes, good question, Brooke. And I'm just getting preliminary information also and there's an indication that it's a door. I find that hard to believe from the standpoint of these doors are plug - what we call plug-type doors and they - just by virtue of beginning the takeoff, starting - starting off really from the gate, the airplane (INAUDIBLE), doors themselves stay very well sealed. So I'm led to believe it's something else.

But what would we do in the cockpit? If we have a situation like that where apparently there's an indication that this airplane descended very rapidly, we are trained - that's one of the primary episodes or scenarios that we're trained for. We get the oxygen mask on immediately because that's the most important and imperative part for us to be able to survive, especially if it's at (INAUDIBLE) corrected (ph) his altitude of 38,000 feet. That's - that's maybe 30 seconds, depending upon your physical health of useful consciousness.

So we would put the oxygen mask on and then we would try (INAUDIBLE) try to arrest the problem. And once the - or try - attempt to arrest the problem with pressurization. Once the - we realize we can't do it, and it appears that to be the case, we would begin an emergency descent after we deploy the oxygen masks, which may have already been deployed through the automatic system anyhow. Most systems are set up to deploy when the cabin altitude as opposed the airplane altitude reaches 10,000 feet. So we would begin a rapid decent by deploying speed brakes, any other known means within our procedure for that particular aircraft to get it safely to a breathable altitude.

BALDWIN: And that would be the roller coaster feeling that Mary Schiavo was just addressing, that feeling in the pit of your stomach for those three minutes for all those passengers on that plane.

David Soucie, let me go back to you, because I'm hearing corroborated among all of you that it just seems highly unlikely that it could possibly be a door. So back to one of your other possibilities, saying it could have been the safety valve. Can you explain - explain that for me.

SOUCIE: Well, the safety valve, or the outflow valve, there's two different valves in there. The outflow valve regulates pressure inside the aircraft. So you have a constant flow of pressurization air coming from the engines, excuse me, into the cabin on this aircraft and it's just regulated as far as what altitude. Now, remember, altitude and pressure are what maintain the breathability of the air. So this outflow valve then controls how much pressure is inside the cabin. So you're maintaining that cabin pressure at a normal 8,000 feet or 10,000 feet at the most. But - so that would make it regular air.

Now, when this outflow valve fails, let's say that it gets plugged up, it can over pressurize the air - the cabin so there's another valve called the safety valve. And although it's normally closed, in this situation where the outflow valve fails, the safety valve would open and release that excess pressure, allowing it to be normal inside the cabin. Now, what's happened in the Payne Stewart situation, what happened with that airplane, when, of course, it - everyone was incapacitated, is that safety valve failed. And it - when the outflow valve fail and then the safety valve didn't do its job properly, then it caused the pressurization problem in the aircraft and everyone perished on board.

In this case, there was time for the pilots to make corrective action, if that was indeed the problem. And I think that that would be more likely a problem, as Les had mentioned, most of the doors are plug- type doors where they're from the inside to the out. So it would be very difficult for them to open. Although in this particular model of aircraft, there is an external cargo door that - that closes and is - does maintain pressure. And we've seen that door fail, the seal on that door fail before. And when that seal fails, it can cause a slow decompression but nothing explosive or extremely rapid.

[14:10:27] BALDWIN: OK. OK. So a lot of possibilities that could lead to this pressurization problem. SOUCIE: Certainly.

BALDWIN: Les and David and Mary, thank you all very much.

We're going to stay on this. Again, if you're just joining us, there was a pressurization problem on board this flight that had left Chicago heading to Hartford, Connecticut. They had to divert to Buffalo, New York. One person - at least one person unconscious. And so we're working to figure out exactly what happened and what happened to the rest of these passengers here. Stay with me for more on that.

Also ahead, new developments in the deadly arrest of a suspect in Baltimore. We will take you inside a police transport van. That is what 25-year-old Freddie Gray was placed into after he was arrested. And we have brand new video of that incident. Stay here. This is CNN's special live coverage.

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[14:15:27] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's go to Baltimore now and this new video just in to CNN of the arrest of 25-year-old Freddie Gray. He's the young man in Baltimore whose death in police custody has sparked this new round of fierce protests against police brutality. And this new video appears to show Gray being placed in leg restraints - I know it's tough to sort of make out exactly what this is. Here you go. Here's a steady shot. He's being placed in these leg restraints before he was loaded into this police van. This new footage emerging as protesters getting ready to demonstrate again tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: It has been three days now since Gray died and now the Department of Justice has launched its own investigation into how he suffered this spinal cord injury after police arrested him on April 12th. All of this comes as Gray's family is hoping to receive his body today.

His relatives were among those demonstrating. They were marching on Baltimore police buildings. Protesters have been demanding the arrest of the six officers involved in Gray's detainment who have been suspended with pay. Three of them are those officers who are on bikes in this neighborhood who were seen, right there, on this cell phone video here that shows this portion of his arrest. Police documents show that Gray was approached because he fled from them, quote/unquote, "unprovoked." He ran away, "unprovoked." They later charged him for allegedly having a knife. But the attorney for Freddie Gray's family says this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAM MURPHY JR., ATTORNEY FOR FREDDIE GRAY'S FAMILY: We also know that he was arrested for running while black, and there's no such thing as felony running. And his only mistake in running away was that he (INAUDIBLE) fast enough. If there was a - if there ever was a case which shows the wisdom of running from the police, this is it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is live in Baltimore.

And, Suzanne, let's talk about this new video of Freddie Gray's arrest our TV affiliate there in Baltimore, WJZ, has.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure.

BALDWIN: What does it show?

MALVEAUX: Well, it's pretty important because it shows two things. First of all, it shows a totally different perspective than what we saw before that initial cell phone video. You can really get a sense of seeing the legs and the way that he was transported and a different point along the journey here when they put those leg irons on.

The other thing that it shows is that if you believe the timeline that the police gave, this is several minutes since he had actually been put into the police van. This is after he asked for an inhaler. This is after the police, the driver of that van, said that he was behaving in a way that was irate. And so they pulled over, they made this stop, and put those leg irons on him. So I would think that a lot of people would be curious to see, is he in any worse shape than he was initially when you see that other cell phone video that was taken just several minutes prior.

And, you know, does it seem as if he's in the same condition? And many people say they believe it's the transport, but there are others who saw that initial video say something had to happen before he even got into that van. So I think the more video you see, the better. And clearly they're going to have to zoom in on that and everybody is very curious as to what they're going to learn about that.

BALDWIN: Suzanne Malveaux, thank you so much, in Baltimore.

You know, police official there say the officers who have been suspended are all consistent with one detail, no use of force was used on this 25-year-old man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JERRY RODRIGUEZ, BALTIMORE POLICE: No. No, absolutely not. None of the officers describe - none of the officers describe any use of force. None of the officers describe using any force against Mr. Gray.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That's police. I want you to hear from these two witnesses. The first didn't want to be identified. He shot this video of Gray's arrest. The other heard the initial encounter Gray had with police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had Freddie Gray bent up into what I would like to call a pretzel type of move where they had the heels of his feet to his back and then he was still in handcuffs and then they had the knee like in the back of his neck.

HAROLD PERRY, HEARD SUSPECT'S INITIAL ENCOUNTER WITH POLICE: I heard the young man screaming, get off my neck, get off any neck. You're hurting my neck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: When we slow this video down, we've spotlighted it here just to try to get a better - a better picture. These officers getting up from around Gray. It appears that Gray's leg does seem to be released from being bent backward. That seems to support the witness' description of Gray as being like a, quote, "pretzel."

[14:20:02] So I've got Don Lemon with me, CNN's "Tonight" anchor, and Harry Houck, former New York police detective, to sort of walk through some of these new developments and what exactly you think we're seeing.

So, Harry, first to you. I think back to Suzanne Malveaux's point, since we've got, again, this latest video, seeing these leg restraints. So we know from seeing the video, he's dragged like a rag doll.

HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Right.

BALDWIN: So something wasn't right. I'm not a doctor and I'm not a cop and I know you're not a doctor either.

HOUCK: Right.

BALDWIN: But why use leg restraints on someone that clearly was already injured?

HOUCK: Well, there's something very interesting about this. The only time you put leg restraints on somebody is when they're inside kicking the vehicle, all right.

BALDWIN: Huh.

HOUCK: And - to stop them from injuring themselves. So they had to stop that - he must have been going crazy in the back of that van. I mean, bumping up against the van, kicking the inside of the van. And that's the only thing that I could think of for why they'd put those on him. That's the only reason why we put the leg -

BALDWIN: Even though it appeared he was being dragged into the van?

HOUCK: Might, yes, exactly.

BALDWIN: And that's where all these questions are coming from.

HOUCK: Exactly. And that's where the questions are coming from. But if his legs - if he couldn't really use his legs, then there's no reason to handcuff his legs.

DON LEMON, ANCHOR, CNN'S "TONIGHT": But also, Harry, they're moving around too. Maybe they - maybe he's sliding off the bed. Maybe they want to - maybe he fell off the bed because he couldn't move his legs. I mean we don't know. And I'm just -

HOUCK: I mean we don't know for sure but I'm just saying based on, you know, my experience, that's the only time we really use leg restraints.

LEMON: Yes.

BALDWIN: Here's the other thing, and I watched your entire interview twice with the lawyer for Freddie Gray's family and one of the -

LEMON: He said this is a case for running, right?

BALDWIN: He said, absolutely. He's like, he should have just run faster from police. The other thing he said to you, because in the situation such as this neighborhood, where it is known for crime, you add in probable cause for being stopped equals a total legal, you know, stopping of an individual. It's a constitutional stop. He said to you, this is - there was - they have provided no probable cause.

LEMON: Well, he says that, and also the mayor says the same thing, that there's no probable cause. And that's the crux of this. Why did they stop him? You just don't stop someone because they look you in the eyes and then they run, right? (INAUDIBLE), as people would call it, running while black. So I don't know the circumstances surrounding - and I don't think any of us know the circumstances surrounding why they stopped him for sure. They're saying they saw a weapon. But they saw the weapon after they stopped him, right?

BALDWIN: That's right.

LEMON: So that's - that's going to be the thing. Why did they stop him and what was the probable cause?

HOUCK: (INAUDIBLE) say that they - that they saw the weapon before they stopped him and that's the reason - that was in the report. Whether or not it's true or not is -

LEMON: We - we don't know. But a weapon -

HOUCK: Right.

LEMON: But just carrying a knife, that is not - even the mayor concedes, that's not a reason to stop someone.

HOUCK: But it's supposedly a - it is. It's a - he - allegedly he had a switchblade. He was in a drug-prone location. He's got known priors for narcotics. I'm sure the officers knew him. And it looks like to me that they might have been out doing narcotics sweeps that night and that's why a van and that's why several people in the van.

LEMON: So someone - so you have a knife in your pocket, people carry Swiss army knife, that's a reason to stop somebody?

BALDWIN: But let - no. No, but let's assume -

HOUCK: Yes, along with the other reasons.

BALDWIN: According to the reports, let's say they didn't see it ahead of time.

HOUCK: Right.

BALDWIN: But it's in a crime-ridden area. He was known to police.

HOUCK: Crime-ridden area, known to police.

BALDWIN: So it would have been a constitutional stop (INAUDIBLE).

HOUCK: Right. And let's make something clear. Everybody's talking about probable cause. You don't need probable cause to make a stop.

BALDWIN: What do you need?

HOUCK: You need reasonable suspicion.

BALDWIN: Reasonable suspicion.

HOUCK: All right. You need probable cause to make an arrest.

LEMON: Yes. And that -

BALDWIN: What is reasonable suspicion? Let's just back up (INAUDIBLE).

HOUCK: All right, reasonable suspicion means like a drug-prone location, known narcotics dealer, you see a knife.

LEMON: You look like you're doing something. That's what it - that's what that means.

HOUCK: You know, that's what - and the police officers need to articulate this when they make stops.

BALDWIN: You know, I was talking to Laverne Morris (ph) the other day, actor and new girl (ph) he wrote in this entire scene in one of the recent episodes involving, you know, police issues with community. And he grew up on the south side of Chicago. And I was talking to him about, you know, what did your mom tell you? Because a lot of these incidents we've been talking about in which these young men in most cases they're running.

LEMON: Yes.

BALDWIN: They're running. And he said to me, you know what, Brooke, he said, when I grew up, I was taught to run away from police.

LEMON: Yes.

BALDWIN: That my likelihood of survival was better running that way than going toward them.

LEMON: I don't know. That - that may be old school. The likelihood now, in all honesty, and - is that -

BALDWIN: Yes, that's why I'm asking.

LEMON: You don't run from police. It never pays off to run from a police officer.

HOUCK: Exactly, you're always going to lose.

LEMON: You take your chances after. You settle it after you comply. You say, OK, officer, I'm not fighting back. What do you - what do you need? What do you need me to do? Hand behind my back? What do you want get on the ground - you want me to get on the ground? That's what you do now. And I'm saying this in order for you to stay alive.

BALDWIN: Right.

LEMON: So that we're not discussing your death or your injury or you being in the hospital on CNN.

Now, but, again, you say about probable cause or reasonable suspicion. I will give you that. But even if he is committing a crime, even if he is guilty, it still does not warrant someone having a spinal injury, ending up dead.

HOUCK: Oh, of course. I agree with that 100 percent.

BALDWIN: And when you look at the pictures - let me ask you, when you look at the pictures and you hear the eyewitness talking about him being placed like in a pretzel, he's on his belly and his legs are kind of up and the officer's knees are in his back, is that protocol? Is that OK? Or is that excessive to you?

HOUCK: No, it might be something as a result of the takedown. I don't know. I mean, I don't know, is this witness credible? Looks like that elderly gentleman that was sitting there on the stoop looks like a credible witness to me, all right. The other man he was talking about, I don't know. I mean, what do you mean by pretzel? What position? Were his legs back? You know, were - were -

[14:25:07] BALDWIN: You could see part of it in the video.

HOUCK: Right, exactly. And that could happen during the altercation, you know, when he was resisting arrest. So I really can't tell you (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: I say - listen, I say all of this, when you look at the ages of these officers. One - I think there's one in his 40s -

BALDWIN: A lot of them are young. LEMON: One in his 30s. Most of them are in their 20s. Young - I think there needs to be training, especially for young officers. Especially for younger officers, there needs to be more training in all this.

BALDWIN: We've heard that from (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: And also, as we were talking about -

HOUCK: Yes, I'm always for officer training.

LEMON: And also as we were talking about -

HOUCK: You can never get enough.

LEMON: How you deal with police officers. You should not be running from a police officer.

HOUCK: Right.

LEMON: That is - that's the exact wrong, bad advice.

BALDWIN: Don Lemon -

HOUCK: And if you look back, this is the catalyst for everything that's happened in the last year, resisting arrest.

BALDWIN: Don Lemon, Harry Houck, thank you both very much.

Watch this guy, CNN "Tonight." I know you're going to be all over this.

LEMON: We're also doing a thing tonight called "Running While Black."

BALDWIN: There you go.

LEMON: Yes.

BALDWIN: We'll see you at 10:00. Thank you so much.

Straight ahead here on CNN, what happened inside that police transport van that they placed Freddie Gray inside? The answer may help explain what happened to him. Up live, we have a police commander taking us inside the back of a different police transport van just to show us who is supposed to go back there, what is supposed to go back there. We've got a lot of questions, so we'll show you inside.

Also, stunning new video. A woman attempted to record police activity near Los Angeles - here she is - when a deputy marshal snatches her cell phone and smashes it. We'll show you how that unfolds, coming up.

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