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French Terror Plot Foiled; Baltimore Protests; Emergency Plane Landing. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 22, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:08] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me now with the very latest, I have CNN's Jean Casarez and also Mary Schiavo, CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general for the U.S. Transportation Department.

Mary, let me just begin with you. Pressurization problem. You described before the notion of falling that much, a controlled fall, three minutes, like a roller coaster. What could explain this?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, most typically when this happens -- and people will remember the Payne Stewart tragedy -- it's a valve. There are valves on the plane that can keep the pressurization in the plane. There can have a slow leak in the valve. There can be other leaks.

But typically, it could be leaks around doors and cargo and things like that. But typically it's a valve. And it was the case with Payne Stewart. And what happens is these valves fail. When they fail, it can be a rapid decompression, or it could be a slow leak. In this case, it had to be a rapid decompression for the pilots to respond as they did.

Everyone was very fortunate that the pilots were able to get on their oxygen masks, were able to descend, and hopefully the passengers got their masks on as well.

BALDWIN: As we're going to talk to Jean in a second, but, again, going from 38,000 feet to 10,000 feet in three minutes, what does that feel like for these 75 passengers?

SCHIAVO: It's like a roller-coaster dive because that exceeds the recommended descent level for the plane. But that's not to say the pilots did anything wrong. In fact, that's exactly what they needed to do. If they're at 38,000 feet and they had a rapid decompression, that's about the worst -- other than being even higher, that's the worst possible situation because you have got to get that plane down.

And there have been situations where pilots haven't been able to get on their oxygen masks, if this is what it really was, if they haven't been able to do that and haven't been able to react as fast as they did. So that's what they had to do. They were trying to save the passengers, of course, because, at 38,000 feet, you don't have a lot of seconds of air in which you're going to be able to breathe, maybe 30 seconds. And so the free-for-all -- it wasn't a free-for-all, but the diving of

that aircraft is exactly what they had to do. It would have been very scary, but it was clearly a controlled descent.

BALDWIN: I have got Jean Casarez with me now. It was a controlled descent. They were able to land that plane safely and soundly there in Buffalo. But we're hearing a little bit now more from the airline.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are. We're hearing different things from different sources.

Let's show everybody a tweet we have just gotten from Southwest Flight No. 5622. This is from Southwest -- SkyWest airlines. "It landed safely in Buffalo, New York, after a passenger lost consciousness. No problem with the door." So we can confirm that. "Other 75 passengers being accommodated."

They say nothing about a loss of pressurization. But it's the FAA that confirmed with CNN that the crew -- and so it doesn't differentiate between a flight attendant or a pilot -- noted a pressurization problem and declared an emergency.

BALDWIN: What about this unconscious passenger? Is he or she OK?

CASAREZ: We understand they were treated at the airport in Buffalo, and they are OK.

But, as you said last hour, we have only heard of one. If you descend at that rapid of a rate, who's to say that everybody else is OK? But we have on the record that one lost consciousness.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: OK. Jean Casarez, thank you so much.

Let's move on and talk about Baltimore. New video just in to CNN of the arrest of Freddie Gray. Let me show you this. He's the 25-year- old Baltimore man whose death in police custody has sparked this new round of fierce protests against police brutality.

This is another piece of video. This is amateur video. This was obtained by our TV affiliate there WJZ. And it shows Gray -- you can hear some of this too. Appears to show him being placed in these leg restraints after his initial arrest.

Gray ultimately went into a coma and died a week after this was taken. The new footage emerging as protesters are getting ready to demonstrate again this evening. It has been now three days since Freddie Gray died. And now the Justice Department has launched its own investigation into how he suffered a severed spinal cord after police arrested him on April 12.

This comes as Gray's family is hoping to receive his body today. His relatives were among the demonstrators who marched on Baltimore police buildings. Protesters have been demanding the arrest of the six officers involved in Gray's arrest, who have been suspended now with pay.

Joining me now, "Baltimore Sun" reporter Justin Fenton.

And, Justin, let's just begin with all this information this family would like to have, right? So the family is waiting on these documents, according to their attorney. Do we know, when will the actual incident report be released and also that full autopsy?

[15:05:08]

JUSTIN FENTON, "THE BALTIMORE SUN": What we have is the arrest report that was filled out by the police on the day of his arrest. It was filed in court. We obtained that, in which the officers had described, you know, that they made eye contact with him, that he fled unprovoked, and then when they caught up to him, he had a switchblade knife on him.

So, we do have that. As far as the autopsy, we're hearing that that could take a significant amount of time to try to figure out what exactly those injuries were. And yet police have set a timetable for the completion of their investigation by the end of next Friday. It remains to be seen sort of how those things are going to connect with each other.

BALDWIN: I understand you have some new information about some of the officers involved. What do you have?

FENTON: Right.

So our mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, has been giving interviews saying that she's frustrated with the officers, they haven't been able to speak with them. And she's blamed the law enforcement officers bill of rights, which is a state law that governs police discipline.

But we're told by the attorney for the police union that four of the six officers did give recorded interviews with investigators the night of the incident. And they have spoken to five of the six. There's a sixth officer who's refused to give a statement. But really what I'm being told by the attorneys at least is that it doesn't have anything to do with our state law enforcement officers bill of rights.

It's the U.S. Constitution that actually allows someone who's under criminal investigation to not speak and not incriminate themselves. And so there's been some pushback on the mayor's assertion that this law is standing in the way of an investigation.

BALDWIN: OK. That's interesting. Speaking of sort of giving their own accounts, I'm also wondering because we have looked at the chronology, the timeline of that arrest morning, and we also know at some point there was another suspect that was placed in the back of that prisoner transport van. And I'm wondering, has anyone spoken with him?

FENTON: We are trying to find him very hard.

BALDWIN: I bet you are. FENTON: We pulled arrest records for everybody arrested that day.

Haven't been able to figure it out yet. And I don't think police are going to provide that name because they consider him a witness. As of right now, he's not surfaced.

BALDWIN: OK. Keep trying. I know we'd love to talk to him as well.

What about the protests, Justin? Just can you tell me a little bit more about what's expected this evening?

FENTON: Yes, there are protests scheduled for tonight, same time, same place.

As you can see behind me, they have actually blocked off the street in front of the Western District police station. In the previous days of protests, which actually began Saturday, before Mr. Gray's death, they were allowing people to come right up to the front. And they have got it blocked off now.

One of the things that may be working in the favor of those who would not like to see a protest is there's some pretty bad weather now. But as of right now, protests scheduled for today, protests scheduled for tomorrow. And we will see where things go from there.

BALDWIN: Yes, we will. Justin Fenton, you guys have done some phenomenal reporting, "Baltimore Sun." We will be in touch. Thank you so much.

Next, those protesters that he was just referencing in Baltimore and really all around the country have repeated the same message. They want an end to police violence against African-Americans. My next guests marched along side Freddie Gray's family. They're taking the message to Capitol Hill.

Plus, the arrest that started it all. Did police follow protocol, and can they just stop someone who's running? We will talk to a former officer about that.

Also, investigators say they have stopped what they call a "imminent terror plot" in France. The suspect apparently was targeting churches. We will tell you that story. You're watching CNN. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:12:59]

BALDWIN: By the time 25-year-old Freddie Gray reached Baltimore's Western District police officers on April 12, he was not able to move. And now the campaign his death has sparked is focusing on the same police office to voice outrage against excessive force.

In less than two hours, another protest is planned there. It's expected to draw the same numbers as Tuesday's rally.

My next guests plan to be there. They are Tamika Mallory with March to Justice and Carmen Perez of Justice League. They just reached the Baltimore area two days ago. They have been walking from New York to D.C., where they join me here on Capitol Hill, just to push for criminal justice reform and divert it actually to Baltimore because of what happened there.

Ladies, welcome to both of you.

CARMEN PEREZ, JUSTICE LEAGUE NYC: Thank you.

TAMIKA MALLORY, MARCH TO JUSTICE: Thank you for having us.

BALDWIN: Tamika, I know you actually just spoke there on Capitol Hill. Can you tell me, what was your message? What do you want lawmakers to do?

MALLORY: Well, actually, I spoke at a press conference where Congressman John Conyers had reintroduced the End Racial Profiling Act, which he's been introducing for many, many years, and it has not passed.

And he reintroduced it in the spirit of what's happened in the country right now, which is the fact that there's a life-and-death situation on the streets. People are dying. Bodies are being put in the ground. And it is becoming a more and more rapid occasion, occurrence, and it's something that we want to see end.

So the End Racial Profiling Act, we were here to support that as a part of our justice package.

BALDWIN: So, racial profiling specifically -- Carmen, let me follow up with you on that.

When you look at some of these neighborhoods, and you have been part of now this national conversation for a little while, do you think it's a socioeconomic issue, or is this truly all about race?

PEREZ: I think it's a combination of both.

I certainly believe that it has a lot to do with race. If you look at our prisons, they're overpopulated with black and Latinos. If you look at those that are being targeted and profiled by police, it's predominantly black and Latinos.

And so if you look at just the overall numbers, and I think that's why it's really important for us to support this bill, because if we could stop it at the front end, then we could eliminate people getting killed, also people getting funneled into the system.

[15:15:11]

BALDWIN: Both you ladies are very familiar with the number of cases we have been covering here at a national level. A lot of these have come to light because of video. Right?

PEREZ: Exactly. BALDWIN: In some of the cases, you see the video, like you see in

North Charleston, in South Carolina, where you see those shots. You see -- and we now know that officer was charged with murder. You see the actual act of death.

But in this case here, Freddie Gray, you see this piece of the video, but you don't see what happened before. You don't see after he's in the van. So that is problematic to some. To either of you, how is video really making a difference here?

MALLORY: Well, I think video clearly is important, but in the Freddie Gray matter, it doesn't really matter whether you have a video or not. The facts are what they are.

You look at the injuries as to what happened to him, how he was before the incident, and what happened after, and there is nowhere in the law that we know of that says that you can beat a man to death that's in custody. So I think looking at the facts...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Just to be clear, just to the facts, we don't know if he was beaten to death. That is just an accusation.

MALLORY: Well, we believe that he was.

PEREZ: And just so that we could give you an insight as to our travels, we have been marching since April 13, and three people have already been killed due to police brutality.

BALDWIN: On the side of police, because we're trying to tell the full picture as best as we can, and I have actually talked to this young man, this officer, Anwar Sanders. He's out of Albuquerque, New Mexico. And he has said to me in the wake of really what happened in Ferguson, he and other officers have begun hesitating in responding on the streets -- because hesitating in using force lawfully because of what's happening nationwide.

Do you -- is that what you want? Is that a good thing? Because officers are worried that it's not.

MALLORY: Well, it's not a good thing. The reality is that the system has put these officers in jeopardy, just as it has the communities that they are supposed to be serving.

And that is the reason why we're on Capitol Hill today. We understand that no one officer or no one police department can change something that is a part of a system that needs to be held accountable. So we don't want officers -- we believe that officers, many of them, the majority, are good officers that are trying to do good work. But they're caught up in a system that has to be fixed.

BALDWIN: Tamika Mallory and Carmen Perez on Capitol Hill, thank you, both, very much.

MALLORY: Thank you for having us. PEREZ: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Next, a plot to attack churches in France has been foiled. Investigators say they found the plans in the suspect's home when that suspect called an ambulance after he accidentally shot himself. We will tell you the rest of that story coming up.

Also, what it's like inside one of these police transport vans. This is what Freddie Gray was placed into after he was arrested in Baltimore. It's a van similar to the one that was used. We're going to talk to a former officer who's now a criminal justice professor about police protocol. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:22]

BALDWIN: Got an update for you on that plane we have been discussing throughout the last hour-and-a-half here. This plane carrying 75 people, the SkyWest plane, took off from Chicago, had to divert to Buffalo. It was supposed to land in Hartford, Connecticut.

The deal was, we heard from the FAA. The FAA said this was a pressurization problem, had to make this emergency landing. That one person was unconscious. So now the twist is this. From the airline specifically, quoting them, there is no indication of any pressurization issue. So that is in complete contradiction to what we have heard from the FAA. Hopefully, we will get more clarification there. Let's move on.

We're now learning more about what authorities say was an imminent terror plot foiled in France some three months after the massacre at "Charlie Hebdo." But as shocking as this alleged plot is itself, it's how it came to light here. The suspect, a 24-year-old I.T. student, in the planning stages of this attack apparently shot himself by accident.

CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is following this one for us.

So, Nic, this was not just a lone wolf. This wasn't some young guy acting on his own. The prosecutor says he'd actually been given orders from Syria. What exactly was he told to do?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He was told to attack a church, and he was given the coordinates for a church. And when the police picked him up, he had a satellite navigation system in his vehicle, written notes as well, that all pointed to an attack at that church.

That wasn't all that he had in the car, of course. The police discovered an automatic rifle, a Kalashnikov with three magazines, all full of ammunition, and a .9-millimeter pistol. And when they raided his house, they found another three Kalashnikovs as well. This was a well-armed man with a plan, had been in touch with this man in Syria, and had also, the police believe, killed a lady a little earlier, a 32-year-old French woman, who was parked in her -- her vehicle at the side of the road in the southwest of Paris, killed her, shot and killed her with a single bullet on Sunday.

I mean, the police essentially here have been incredibly lucky, because if he hadn't shot himself in the leg and then called an ambulance, the police wouldn't have come across him. So this seems to be something that came really close to a man walking into a church on a Sunday with an automatic weapon.

BALDWIN: My goodness. So he shoots himself. He's 24. He's an I.T. student. What else do we know about him?

ROBERTSON: Yes, the interior minister in France actually -- and this is another thing that makes you catch your breath for a second here and certainly will for the French.

The interior minister said this was a man known to the police. They'd looked at him in 2014. They had looked at him again in 2015. That could only be in the last couple of months. And they decided that he wasn't an imminent threat.

[15:25:10]

Now, at the same time, you have the prime minister and the president of France praising the police, as you would expect them to do, but saying the fact that the country is on a heightened, you know, threat level because of the "Charlie Hebdo" attack, allowed the police to know that this man, when they were confronted with him, was a potential danger, and, therefore, thwart the attack.

But it does give the impression that had the police were -- had been on top of him and knew about him, how come they didn't know he was amassing these weapons? That's got to be a worry.

BALDWIN: That's a good question. Nic Robertson, thank you so much.

Next, back to Baltimore. With protesters demanding answers, the focus now turning to the police transport van that Freddie Gray rode in before he died. What happened after those doors closed? We will take a look inside a similar van and talk to a former police officer about that next.

Also, families forced to escape their own homes because of this. The ground underneath is falling away. We will tell you where this is and what's happening next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)