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Two Hostages Killed in U.S. Counterterror Operation. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 23, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:46] PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's unclear at this point -- Jake. What we do know is that you point out that President Obama did not specifically authorize these two drone strikes that killed the Americans that we just learned about today. But according to a U.S. government official, these drone strikes were conducted within the policy guidance in regards to drone strikes. Now, there are still operational details, we're told, that have not been declassified.

In regards to these two American al Qaeda members, we are learning from government officials that they weren't targeted. That their killings were unintentional but still they were highly sought- after members of al Qaeda. A source I spoke with says that they were essentially collateral damage similar to Samir Kahn, who as you know was an American, Jake, who was killed in the same drone strike as Anwar al Awlaki, the first American targeted in a drone strike back in 2011.

As we know, Jake, the Justice Department issued a legal memo basically authorizing that drone strike but it still caused a lot of controversy and a lot of political debate whether an American can be killed in a drone strike without due process -- Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Pamela Brown.

We are going to take a very quick break. And when we come back we're going to have much more coverage of this shocking news announced by President Obama just minutes ago about a counter-terrorism operation that went wrong, a counter-terrorism that killed two innocent hostages -- one of them an American.

We'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As president and as commander-in-chief, I take full responsibility for all our counter- terrorism operations including the one that inadvertently took the lives of Warren and Giovanni. I profoundly regret what happened. On behalf of the United States government, I offer our deepest apologies to the families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:35:18] TAPPER: Welcome back. I'm Jake Tapper with some

shocking news.

President Obama coming to the White House Brady press briefing room this morning talking about an American counter-terrorism operation that went wrong in January. Two American -- one American hostage and another innocent hostage were killed in the operation. Warren Weinstein, a contractor who worked with U.S. AID who's been held hostage by al Qaeda since 2011 was killed in this strike. President Obama expressing his profound regret and his deepest apologies.

In addition, an Italian national was killed in the strike. We're also told that two Americans who joined al Qaeda were killed, one in that strike, one in a separate strike.

Let's go to our White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski right now to bring us up to speed. Michelle -- President Obama talking about how he wanted to bring this information to the American people. But it's also it seems fair to say that his hand was forced to a degree --

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

TAPPER: -- since the "Wall Street Journal" was reporting this information this morning as well.

KOSINSKI: Yes. And in fact we just got something from the White House on that now because the questions are there. Obviously, why now. I mean these two operations happened back in January. No word of that until now, until we know that some of this was coming out in the press.

Asking the White House about this timing -- they are saying that "We understand there will be a fountain of questions relating to all of this. You'll have the President's remarks. And there's going to be some questions answered at today's press briefing.

So at this moment they are not giving any more insight into the timing there. But it is interesting. I mean we know that the reporting was out there. It makes sense that this is how it came about. But an extremely difficult thing for the White House to do, to put out this lengthy statement, explaining what happened so the President to get out there and deliver a large scale apology. I mean talking about grief and condolences, saying he could never do or say enough to ease the heartache of these families. Really focusing first on the emotional side of this, on the families left there for so long without information. Saying he can't begin to imagine the anguish, expressing profound regret and deepest apologies.

After that, though, he did explain the operation saying this was fully consistent with counter-terrorism guidelines, explaining some of what led up to this operation, at least the one involving the two hostages; that there were hundreds of hours of surveillance done; explaining that operatives thought that this was an al Qaeda compound, only that there were no hostages present.

In fact in a statement put out by the White House, they said they had no reason to believe that there were hostages there. He said that the hostages were hidden deep within this compound. So, hundreds of hours of surveillance. Of course the questions are going to be there about standards in these different types of operations.

It was a failed rescue operation, remember, at the end of last year. Luke Somers, the American photojournalist, the South African hostage who were there -- that was an attempt to rescue them. It failed. They were killed.

Also when we look at the case of James Foley and Steven Sotloff -- in those rescue operation cases, the questions that come out are why did the U.S. wait so long? Whatever the timeframe was, people always question that timing. The response by the administration is always, well, we wanted to make absolutely sure that they were there. Make absolutely certain that this was going to be safe and successful. Of course mistakes and accidents and unforeseen circumstances do happen.

In this case the questions are going to be, are the standards the same for an operation that is going to target al Qaeda? What are the standards for ascertaining that there are no innocents or hostages that are going to be there? I mean repeatedly the White House emphasizes that it seeks to limit in every way possible the deaths of civilians, especially the deaths of American hostages. And you can see the President try to explain, try to justify some of that in his statement today -- Jake.

TAPPER: That's right, Michelle. And of course we'd be remiss if we didn't note that it is hardly the first time that innocent people have been killed in American drone strikes whether in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Yemen.

KOSINSKI: For sure.

TAPPER: There have been hundreds, if not thousands of innocents who have been killed according to human rights groups.

But we have this new statement that I want to read from Elaine Weinstein, sadly now the widow of Kenneth Weinstein (SIC). Let me read some of the remarks.

[10:39:42] "On behalf of myself, our two daughters, our son-in- law and two grandchildren we are devastated by this news and the knowledge that my husband will never safely return home. We were so hopeful that those in the U.S. and Pakistani governments with the power to take action and secure his release would have done everything possible to do so. There are no words to do justice to the disappointment and heartbreak we are going through. We do not yet fully understand all of the facts surrounding Warren's death. But we do understand that the U.S. government will be conducting an independent investigation of the circumstances. We look forward to the results of that investigation. But those who took Warren captive over three years ago bear ultimate responsibility. I can assure you that he would still be alive and well if they'd allowed him to return after his time abroad working to help people of Pakistan."

Late last year, of course, Warren Weinstein's wife spoke with our own Alisyn Camerota on "CNN TONIGHT". Let's play a little of that sound of what she had to say said about her interaction with the government while trying to get her husband back from the clutches of al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELAINE WEINSTEIN, WIDOW OF WARREN WEINSTEIN: The U.S. government says that they are doing whatever they can, looking at every possible way of getting my husband back. But we don't really know what that means, because we're not privileged to that information. We just have to believe what they tell us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's bring in Nick Paton Walsh right now. He's joining us by phone from Tripoli. Nick -- good to talk to you. What action was taken that resulted in the death of Warren Weinstein and the Italian national Giovanni Lo Porto?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, we should point out that the first action that put their lives at risk was them being taken hostage by al Qaeda. But specifically today we're talking about the drone strike it appears which according to U.S. sources (ph) speaking with my colleagues in Washington was behind the explosion that hit this al Qaeda compound.

Jake, the question that is now going to be asked is exactly how did the CIA and those behind the drone strike in question come to the conclusion that a strike was necessary. Now we understand there were no ground troops involved. This was not a capture mission that was possible here according to the President himself.

But an interesting point in what he says. While he determines that Farouq and Adam Gadahn, both U.S. nationals -- Ahmed Farouq and Adam Gadahn, both U.S. nationals who are part al Qaeda were killed in this strike and the subsequent one later. It does say that neither was specifically targeted in the strike that hit the compound where Warren Weinstein and Giovanni Lo Porto were killed.

The question, of course, will be asked exactly what was it that the CIA noticed at this compound that led them to believe a strike was in order. There have been a lot of reviews of this very favorite tool of the Obama counter-terrorism policy. Much embraced by him when he came to power in late 2009, heavily used around the border area of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

I should point out it's not clear if the strike happened in Afghanistan, the last time (inaudible) Pakistan. He certainly allowed grand expansion of much of this program and then recently has begun to review it, tightening of the rules. One of the key issues, I think, which has come under great scrutiny something called signature strikes where patterns of behavior, military age males in areas where there were known to be high insurgency al Qaeda presence often enabled a strike to be used.

Now there have been real (inaudible) significantly was most people's understanding although much of it remains confidential. The question will again be given he has said neither of these two American al Qaeda members or leaders were, in fact, specifically targeted by this strike, what was it that led them to believe this attack was necessary and exactly what did they know in full about who was in that compound -- Jake.

TAPPER: That's right. I mean good questions. If they didn't know that these two high-value targets were being targeted were going to be in the strike zone, then who did they think was there? Those are questions that undoubtedly we'll be asking the White House and national security officials in the coming hours and days as we cover this tragic, tragic counter-terrorism operation that went wrong in which an American hostage Warren Weinstein and an Italian national Giovanni Lo Porto were killed, as well as these two high value al Qaeda targets Adam Gadahn and Ahmed Farouq.

Ahmed Farouq not as well-known, Nick Paton Walsh. He's somebody who is said to be the deputy emir of a new al Qaeda offshoot, al Qaeda in the Indian Subcontinent. But Adam Gadahn, Nick -- very, very well- known to those who follow national security stories.

WALSH: Well certainly. I mean let's deal initially with Ahmed Farouq. Adam Gadahn was killed -- a well-known al Qaeda member prevalent in a lot of al Qaeda propaganda, American citizen, million- dollar reward out for information leading to his capture. A high- profile figure so we can accept that if the U.S. was aware they were going after him in a later strike then that, of course, is to some degree self-explanatory apart from, of course, the internals reverberations the administration will have about targeting an American citizen. Those have been and gone.

[10:45:00] Ahmed Farouq, yes, as you say, al Qaeda in the Indian Subcontinent, not a particularly well-known offshoot, not behind as far as can be ascertained operations that have made headlines that much. Said to be engaged in trying to set up some sort of Islamic caliphate in India, Bangladesh -- that region and said to be potentially subservient to Mullah Omar.

But very little known Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader -- very little known about them. Of course there will be a lot of scrutiny now about Ahmed Farouq's level of seniority, quite what level of transparency there is about why he was chosen to be hidden in that particular compound

But two also, bearing in mind, given the administration quite clear that they were not specifically targeting Ahmed Farouq when they hit the compound where these two aid workers tragically lost their lives; exactly who it was and what pattern of behavior they had seen there to make them think that strike was necessary. There could be electronic intercepts. There could have hundreds of hours of surveillance.

They could simply have ascertained that there was so much traffic or passage to that particular destination that a strike was mandated. But then you have to also assess quite where that fits into the rules the U.S. government has been increasingly casting around that drone strikes and also how this may, perhaps, make people perceive that tool of the Obama administration counter-terrorism policy, the drone still very much in use, still very popular it's within military espionage circles, but something which, of course, has had many unintended civilian deaths blamed on it.

Of course a lot of hatred in the Afghanistan/Pakistan border area against the United States. Some say complicated their bids to dampen the insurgency there. But in this specific case, I have to also point out that Barack Obama very clearly standing up there and saying as commander in chief he takes full responsibility referring to both men by their first names repeatedly. A very difficult moment for a president like that because one necessitated by what seems to have been a tragic error or perhaps accident in White House terminology the (inaudible) when that drone strike was launched -- Jake.

TAPPER: That's Nick Paton Walsh, our senior international correspondent joining us on the phone from Tripoli.

Let's go back to senior national security correspondent Jim Sciutto. Jim, having a second in the break to read the statement from Warren Weinstein's widow, Elaine Weinstein, we didn't read the more scathing part of the letter, the more critical part of the letter when it comes to those whose help she was seeking.

First of all, to be very clear the Weinstein family says that the cowardly actions of those who took Warren captive and ultimately to the place and time of his death are not in keeping with Islam and they will have to face their God to answer for their actions.

They are -- she is definitively blaming al Qaeda and there should be no mistake about that. But that said, she thanks some -- she thanks her two senators and her congressman from Maryland, as well as specific officials from the FBI. But listen to, this Jim. She says, "Unfortunately the assistance we received from other elements of the U.S. government was inconsistent and disappointing over the course of three and a half years. We hope that my husband's death and the others who face similar tragedies in recent months will finally prompt the U.S. government to take its responsibilities seriously and establish a coordinated and consistent approach to supporting hostages and their families."

She also goes on to criticize the Pakistani government, of course, her late husband Warren Weinstein had been taken hostage from his home in Lahore, Pakistan in August 2011. She says of the Pakistani government she's disappointed in the government and military Pakistan, "Warren's safe return should have been a priority for them based on his contributions to their country but they failed to take actions earlier in his captivity when opportunity presented itself instead treating Warren's captivity as more of an annoyance than priority. I hope the nature of our future relationship with Pakistan is reflective of how they prioritize situations such as these."

Let's start with the U.S. component of this. This is hardly the first time we've heard from the family of someone who has lost a hostage, an American hostage held captive by a terrorist group being critical of the Obama administration.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's not. We heard it from the Foley family after he was killed and keep in mind, killed by ISIS. Keep in mind, the administration attempted a risky rescue operation for James Foley and some of the other hostages held by ISIS and Syria. AS it turned they got there late. They believe It was the right location but they got there late.

But yes, following his death the Foley family was critical. It's not just from that camp. I've been in touch with families, for instance, the three Americans held in Iran. They will privately and sometimes publicly question why there's not more focus on the cases of their relatives.

In the context of Iran, why is the U.S. in these nuclear negotiations that seem to be proceeding so well and why isn't the freedom of our family members tied to those negotiations. Why isn't it a prerequisite of the negotiations?

So you hear it from a number of quarters from families who their relatives, their loved ones are being held, whether it be by terrorist groups like ISIS and al Qaeda but also by foreign governments.

[10:50:08] Some of that -- and when you speak to administration officials about it, what will they say? They'll say, listen, some of that is natural. They miss their relatives. They may have lost their relatives. Some of it is natural. But it is across the board enough that it raises hard questions.

That said how do you satisfy these relatives? The only way you satisfy them is with freedom and that's a difficult thing to gain. Now, with the Pakistani government, let's deal with that for a moment. You know, the frustration with the Pakistani government's role with regard to a group like al Qaeda, Taliban, et cetera, is that, you know, and you'll hear this even from government officials in private, is that where do their true loyalties lie, do they turn a blind eye.

I mean those questions were raised with the fact that bin Laden was hiding very close in a Pakistani city for a number of years, close to a major military installation. So that -- the criticism of the Pakistani government's role in this extend beyond the families.

I have some new information, too, Jake, I wanted to add to this because it goes back to a question you asked me earlier. How do they know that the American Warren Weinstein was killed in this? I'm told that there is no body. They did not recover a body. There is no DNA evidence of Weinstein or the Italian hostage Giovanni Lo Porto.

This was based on circumstantial evidence, a CIA assessment. They took all the information they could glean. What would that be? It could be intercepted communications, comments on the Internet, et cetera. But they do not have DNA test, they do not have a body, so they had to make a judgment here. That's why from the President's comments as well, you hear him saying, you know, based on our best assessment. Just on that question, that's new information.

I'm also told that the Weinstein family was just told yesterday about this, given the equivalent of a classified briefing where a senior White House official and other senior administration officials delivered this very sad news and laid out the case for them why U.S. intelligence agencies and the White House have made a determination that their loved one and the Italian Giovanni Lo Porto were killed in the strike.

So those two headlines there: one, they don't have a body, they don't have DNA evidence. It's an assessment that intelligence agencies made. And two, that the family only found out yesterday after being -- being -- worrying about their relative for a number years -- by a senior White House official and other administration officials.

TAPPER: All right. Jim Sciutto -- thank you very much.

We're going to take a very quick break and when we come back we're going to have more on this tragic story: two innocent hostages killed in an American counter-terrorism strike in January.

Back after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: For decades Warren lived the ideals of our country, serving with the Peace Corps and later with the United States Agency for International Development. He devoted his life to people across Africa and South Asia. He was a loving husband, father, and grandfather who willingly left the comforts of home to help the people of Pakistan.

At the time of his abduction, he was a U.S. AID contractor focusing on helping Pakistani families escape poverty and give a better life to their children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:56:57] TAPPER: Welcome back to our coverage of the sad news delivered by President Obama this morning that an American counter- terrorism operation in January accidentally or by some sort of faulty intelligence took the life of two innocent hostages including an American named Warren Weinstein who has been in the clutches of al Qaeda being held hostage by al Qaeda since August 2011. In addition an Italian national named Giovanni Lo Porto who had been held by al Qaeda since 2012 were killed

There are also two Americans killed in that strike and a subsequent strike. Americans who were members of al Qaeda, one of them Ahmed Farouq, who was an al Qaeda leader, who is a sub-emir, the vice emir of the al Qaeda in the Indian Subcontinent; the other one well-known to people who follow national security stories because of his propaganda value -- Adam Gadahn, an American who was very active and vocal when it came to al Qaeda propaganda. It was a very, very sad statement from President Obama expressing

regret, expressing apologies to the families of the Weinstein and Giovanni Lo Porto, talking about how the drone strike that took their lives was done in accordance to the rules and regulations the Obama administration had set.

Let's go to our White House correspondent -- actually we're going to take a break right now.

Thank you so much for joining me for our special coverage. I'm Jake Tapper.

"AT THIS HOUR" with John Berman and Kate Bolduan starts right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)