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Dr. Drew
A Young Woman Admits To Killing Her Boyfriend, Insists She Is Not A Murderer; Shayna Hubers` Fate Now In Jury`s Hands; The Dr. Oz` Controversy; Dr. Oz Getting Heat From The Critics. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 23, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:07] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW: Tonight, a young woman actually admits to killing her boyfriend. She says she shot
him six times but insists she is not a murderer. Her fate now in the hands of the jury.
Let us get started with what you are tweeting about tonight. Shayna Hubers, was she a scorned girlfriend who then shot her boyfriend six times
or was a victim of domestic violence defending herself from her boyfriend, Ryan Poston. Here is what a jailhouse informant says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CECILY MILLER, SHAYNA HUBERS` JAIL MATE: She says that she was going to plead insanity. But then she said she was too smart because she has an IQ
of Einstein -- up to the IQ of Einstein, and so she was going to plead the wife-battered syndrome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Another jail mate held her ground when cross-examined by Shayna`s lawyer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MEJIA, SHAYNA HUBERS` DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You have no idea whether or not she is guilty or not, do you?
CECILY MILLER, SHAYNA HUBERS` JAIL MATE: I know what she told me.
MEJIA: OK. And, so, from that you decided that she had no remorse and therefore she is guilty. Am I right or am I wrong?
MILLER: Yes, if somebody tells you they pulled the trigger to somebody`s face, they are guilty.
MEJIA: Correct. And, what if that person is telling you then, and they do to save their life?
MILLER: She did not say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us Evy Pompouras, security expert, former special agent secret service; Sam Schacher, "Pop Trigger on Hulu.com and Anahita
Sedaghatfar, attorney and Of Counsel to the Cochran Firm. Sam, tell us about both Shayna and Ryan.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: OK. So, this all took place when Shayna was 21 years old, Dr. Drew. She is 24 now. She was
an honor student at the University of Kentucky. She was also pursuing her Masters Degree in school counseling. And, remember Dr. Drew, the
psychologist did say that she has a high IQ. OK?
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: So, let us talk about Ryan.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: Now, Ryan was 29 years old when he was killed. He was a lawyer, just starting out in private practice. And, he came from a really
prominent family from northern Kentucky.
PINSKY: Yes, everything I hear about Ryan is he was a great guy. They tried to come at him pretty hard during the trial. I will review some of
that as we go along here. But, Shayna is somebody that keeps --
SCHACHER: Maligning his character?
PINSKY: Well, no. When we look at her and look at the way she behaved -- we are going to review all that have tonight. You will see. Joining me to
discuss, I have Janeen DeMarte. She is a clinical psychologist. She was an expert witness in the Jodi Arias murder trial.
Shayna told police she could not stand to watch her boyfriend dying. She shot him in self-defense but once she had shot him, she could not stand to
see him dying and twitching, so she had to shoot him six times to be sure he was dead. Janeen, what is your take on this woman?
JANEEN DEMARTE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, just based on that information alone, that is a pretty shocking statement particularly given
that she was focused more on her emotions and how she felt about it --
PINSKY: Right.
DEMARTE: -- rather than looking at someone who she loved in pain.
PINSKY: Now, Janeen, I am so shocked -- people seem kind of, I do not know, they keep asking me, why I am so bothered by that very issue. For me
this very issue is where the rubber hits the road with this woman.
In a state of stress where she has shot somebody allegedly in self-defense, she goes on to execute him like a dying horse or dog. To me, it is exactly
the point that you are making is that all she was concerned with was that his dying impinged on her feelings, so she had to put a stop to that.
DEMARTE: Yes, exactly.
PINSKY: It is unbelievable.
DEMARTE: Absolutely. It just seems very callous.
PINSKY: Today, in court, the prosecution psychiatrist was asked if he thought Shayna was so-called `fake crying` during the police interview. He
said it had occurred to him that she was sort of seemed disingenuine or disconnected during some of the interrogation which, by the way, Janeen,
seemed to me to be rather manicky. She was never asked any follow-up questions but spoke to her interviewer for two hours. Do you agree with me
on that?
DEMARTE: I agree on a sense that speaking for two hours without a question is certainly something we see on someone with mania. But in observing her
other behaviors, there does not seemed to be anything else that was associated with mania.
PINSKY: Now, the prosecution psychiatrist also said he believed that Shayna had PTSD before having shot Ryan as well as a former bipolar
disorder and. And, you know, we are also hearing interest from the defense`s own psychiatrist, Evy, that she apparently had personality
disorder, previous sexual trauma, PTSD, as we are saying.
Now, my question to you, Evy, because I know how you love throwing wet blankets on all of our behavioral theories. A. Do you just -- as you often
do, just another bad person, you do not care about any of this or do you think any of this has relevance?
EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT/LAW ENBFORCEMENT ANALYST: I do not think any of those disorders have any relevance. When you were speaking earlier
with Janeen about the woman saying, "I shot him because he was twitching." She just made that up to me based on the assessment that I have made. To
me, that is just an excuse to justify why she shot multiple rounds.
SCHACHER: Thank you. Right.
POUMPOURAS: Because the idea is the whole stand your ground theory, which is what they are using, saying that it was self-defense. Self-defense
means, you shoot to stop the threat. Once that person or that threat stops, then you cease.
You are not -- the law does not a allow you to shoot somebody to the point where you kill them. The law allows to you defend yourself to the point
with that person stops. This is where it changes now to murder. That is why I think that whole twitch thing, it is just the way for her to justify
those multiple rounds.
PINSKY: But -- but --
SCHACHER: I am so happy you said that, Evy.
PINSKY: Well, Sam, you say that and you actually did a little touchdown dance.
SCHACHER: Yes, I did. I full-on did a touchdown dance. I said that the other night, you disagreed with me.
PINSKY: Well -- but now, my question is why -- is she was trying to make a self defense argument, why would she explicitly talk about something that
clearly is murder?
SCHACHER: I think that she did not know how to explain the multiple gunshots, Dr. Drew. I envision this guy begging for his life.
PINSKY: You did say that.
SCHACHER: I envision him begging for his life and she continued to shoot him in cold blood. And, when she waited and had that 10 to 15 minutes and
have a discussion with her mother.
I am sure she went over how she could explain all of those gunshots and I agree 100 percent with Evy, I think that was just a way for her to somehow
make her look more human than she is.
PINSKY: Evy, to make her look more sympathetic, "Look, I was worried about him. He was twitching. I had to do something. I better shoot him in the
head. Evy?
POUMPOURAS: Yes. Yes, I agree with Sam. And, then the thing is too -- like from what I understand, she shot six rounds. All six rounds to my
understanding hit him. Two of which hit him in the head. Anybody that shoots a weapon, it is not easy to get all those rounds off to one person.
Especially if there is a scuffle or something is going on. So, to me, he was kind of static, in the moment, and it seems like more of an execution
shooting. I mean this young man seemed to be a sitting duck.
PINSKY: All right, Anahita, defend your client. There is the chair by the way he was shot in. And, there he is under the table. Does this look like
somebody who was coming in at the defendant?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think the defense presented a good expert, Dr. Drew, that testified the those pictures are not
definitive. And, while I do not disagree that the prosecution has a compelling case, there are facts in their favor. I think the defense did a
pretty good job with the facts they had to work with.
And, one of the most important pieces of testimony in my opinion was the testimony of the neighbor who corroborated the defendant`s story. Shea
said she heard the loud arguing and then she heard the gunshot.
PINSKY: I listened to you very carefully, Anahita. You say given the facts they had to work with --
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: -- which are almost none.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, it is not almost none but it is a good case for the prosecution. But, look, the defense did a great job. They did a great job
during their cross-examination and it just takes one of those jurors, Dr. Drew, to have sympathy for her, to believe that she acted in self-defense
or maybe one that just feels the prosecution did not meet their burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. It just takes one.
PINSKY: Next up, Janeen DeMarte stays with us. Of course, she had interviewed Jodi Arias. And, we will be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAYNA HUBERS, KILLED RYAN POSTON IN SELF-DEFENSE: But I just walked around the table and shot him where I knew he would die immediately -- and
fast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: She talks about this man like he is a dog or a horse that she is putting out of his misery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: Do you need an ambulance? Have you been injured?
SHAYNA HUBERS: I am not injured, ma`am. I was thrown into the side of the couch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: So, he slammed you into the couch, but you do not have any injuries?
SHAYNA HUBERS: I do not have any injuries. I was just very frightened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEDAGHATFAR: That 911 operator, I do not think it was being very professional. It seemed as though, she was cross-examining this woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEDAGHATFAR: The victim was taking medications and those medications caused anger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It turns out it was Adderall and a short acting benzodiazepine. Even the adderall made him agitated. The xanax would bring him down a bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Evy, Sam, Anahita and Janeen DeMarte. The jury haS the case now. Shayna`s defense put on a psychologist who said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ED CONNER, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: What she reported there was some sexual trauma in her childhood, and she had a history of alcohol abuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, he also said that she had had an issue with pharmaceutical drug abuse, again, sexual trauma, that she had a personality disorder,
which was between histrionic and narcissistic or both. Now, that is using an old DSM-IV criteria. We would just call that borderline now.
She also said that her IQ was above average of 125. Of course, the average is 100. Janeen, this was the defense -- this is the defense witness and he
was saying things about her that really for those of us that look at people like this, we thought -- we were saying why she was so unstable.
And, why she would be someone who would have this kind of murderous rage that she could not control and why she would be so empathically failed.
She would fail to understand she would harm other human being in this situation.
DEMARTE: Yes. I am surprised that borderline personality disorder was not brought up by him.
PINSKY: Well, he was using -- it was. I mean listen, he was using, I think, older criteria. And, the narcissism is obvious, right? Everything
is about her.
DEMARTE: Yes.
PINSKY: The borderline is all the chaos and the clinginess and the tens of thousands of texts. What is it? Now, I do not want to -- This was the
same thing I felt with Jodi, too. I do not want people with borderline personality disorder to be stigmatized by these cases, because people
borderline do not kill. What is different about these women that do?
DEMARTE: I completely agree with you and I am really glad that you said that, because you are right, there are plenty of people with borderline
personality disorders that do not end up hurting anybody.
But one of the things that I often see is that when there is this devaluation of an individual, that is where the anger comes out. And, when
you devalue someone so much so, you are able to hurt them in a way that other people would not.
PINSKY: Right. So, again, the borderline is prone to idealizing and deidealizing someone. And, when somebody has hurt her, again, it is all
about her. So all she sees in him is just he is a horrible, awful, unredeemable person. But, Evy, once again I got to go back to you. See, I
know to you she is just a bad person. She is just a killer.
POUMPOURAS: Yes. In this situation I hear all these possibilities and the criteria that she meets certain disorders. But, you know, regardless of
all that, that does not justify what she did. And, as far as the defense bringing it up maybe to engage empathy or sympathy as far as her being a
weak willed person and you know that caused her to commit this act, I do not know.
Because at the end of the day if you are going to go that route you have to show there is a defect of the mind, a mental defect of the mind for someone
to do something like this to use the insanity plea or any type of plea.
It is collectively, Dr. Drew, and we are going through all these different things throughout the show, but there are all these indicators that this
young lady is deceptive. It is like ly she did commit this crime.
PINSKY: Yes.
POUMPOURAS: And, I do think that there are underlying issues. Maybe not evil, but --
PINSKY: But, you are calling her -- but she does not have a long history of criminal behavior, right? She does not have a criminality in her
thinking prior to this.
POUMPOURAS: So you know? So you know? How do you know that? Just because somebody -- This is what gets me. I always here this, "Oh, I ran
this person`s rap sheet and you know, they never committed a crime. They never got caught. That is what I am going to say to that.
PINSKY: All right.
POUMPOURAS: People commit crimes all the time but do not always get caught. So, you do not know -- None of us know what she has or has not
done in the past. She could have been yet behaving vividly her entire life and we do not know.
PINSKY: Samantha.
SCHACHER: Yes.
POUMPOURAS: You do not know who anybody is.
SCHACHER: I agree. And, I also think this is somebody who never had the prime opportunity because she has been given everything that she is wanted.
OK? She is very beautiful. She is very intelligent. She had her parents wrapped around her fingers. She would use that. She would manipulate
them. She had called her mom at 4:00 in the morning when she was unhappy.
Her mom would come running to her defense. She would tell her mom, "Oh, I need money for X, Y, Z. Use that money to go to Hawaii. She is incredibly
deceptive. And, I think the first time that somebody really rejected her and then on top of that replaced her with a better version, hence, Miss
Ohio, it was enough to send her over the edge.
PINSKY: Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: These are a lot of I guess predictions that everyone is making, not much with substantiation, Dr. Drew. But back to that expert, I
will admit it is never a good thing when your own expert testifies to facts that hurt your case.\
And, I think we saw in the Jodi Arias case the defense did a the lot to kind of dispute the prosecution`s expert who said she did have borderline.
So, perhaps it might have been smart to embrace that, to embrace that she had a personality disorder, to embrace that maybe she was not all together.
Maybe that could work in her favor as a mitigation.
PINSKY: Yes. And, I do not think they did yet the jury, I suspect, might begin to think that way or maybe that was their intent in planting that
seed. I think they were probably shocked by what the psychologist said.
SEDAGHATFAR: I was definitely shocked.
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: It did not seem like he was saying that in a planned way. He was saying that during his cross-examination and that is never a good
thing.
PINSKY: Now, look at this clip from Tuesday`s after show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The profound narcissism --
SEDAGHATFAR: So, that gets you. You keep bringing that up.
PINSKY: The killing is really so clear which is, you know, are dying and that makes me uncomfortable --
SEDAGHATFAR: Makes me feel bad. Yes.
PINSKY: So I have to kill you all the way as opposed to saying, Oh my god, I neutralized the threat --
SEDAGHATFAR: Let me call 911.
PINSKY: Let me call 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, Anahita, that is the part that is gotten me about the case. And, you - even yourself said you were surprised I was so bothered by that.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: But you also observed another thing about how people on Twitter are treating you.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. It was very interesting. I was surprised that, that is what you took away from this case. And, you said that is why in a way you
felt she was worse than Jodi Arias.
PINSKY: Yes, right. Right. It is so -- it means in a certain situation nothing else matters than her feelings even to the point of being willing
to execute somebody to protect how bad she was feeling.
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly.
PINSKY: That is awful! That is really awful.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, the defense is going to spin that. The defense probably did have to spin that and say, "No, that is not what it was." It
was that she was a battered woman. She had a history of domestic violence with her boyfriend. And, in those situations, battered women snap and they
keep shooting until they feel that person is completely dead, so they are no longer a threat in their mind.
PINSKY: And, Anahita, the other thing you observed about this case was how people treated you on Twitter.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: Tell me about that.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, as you know during my coverage of the Jodi Arias murder trial, I was getting a lot of negative tweets, to put it mildly. People
were saying that I was making excuses for her and that I am honoring a murderer, and that is not the case. I was presenting the defense attorney
arguments. In this case, however, I have been doing a lot of commentary on it and the tweets have been much better, much more positive.
PINSKY: Weird.
SEDAGHATFAR: People are saying you are a great defense lawyer. I think a lot of your points make sense and I would hire you if I ever got in
trouble. And, it is interesting that I am seeing that kind of dynamic going on.
PINSKY: So, I guess we have a bunch of Shayna viewers right now, basically, as you were saying here. A lot of people --
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: So, all right, listen, next up, could Shayna have -- the question here is could they have used as Anahita suggested her mental health issues,
which she clearly has, as a way of casting some doubt in the mind of the jurors?
Well, one juror feels sympathetic because of these issues. I do not think that was their intent but maybe that is something they will get out of some
of those experts. And, later we will look at more of the bizarre interrogation tapes after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: From February through October 2012, investigators say they have reviewed over 50,000 text messages between these two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE MYSTERIES": "I need some time to myself" - Ryan Poston. "I will be by later to get some bath items and head
to the Marriott" - Shayna Hubers.
Why does she have to all the way back over there to pick up some soap? I would tell her to go get her shampoo, her herbal essence down at the dollar
general.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Evy, Sam, and Anahita. Miss Ohio, 2012, Audrey Bolte testifies for the prosecution about having made a date with Ryan Poston.
Listen to this.
AUDREY BOLTE, MISS OHIO USA 2012: We reconnected through Facebook and then we started texting back and forth and then planned a date to meet up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Question is whether Shayna knew about this. Shayna had her -- she also -- Sam, back me up on this. This girl who subsequently killed her
boyfriend for maybe going over the edge because of that Miss Ohio date also was hooking up with a guy behind Ryan`s back. It is unbelievable.
SCHACHER: Right. Right. Well, here is the thing. She is someone that had the guy on the side. But if you read those text messages she was very
clear that she wanted Ryan to be the guy and she was more into Ryan than Ryan was to her. So, therefore, she had this guy on the side. But if she
had it her way, Ryan would have been the guy. Then she finds out about Miss Ohio, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Can you imagine Googling her?
PINSKY: Then, pow, pow, pow. Then she got to go over the -- I like the look on Evy`s face. I got to tell you. Evy is like, "Aha, you see? See
how sinister she is." Is that what I was seeing on your face?
(LAUGHING)
POUMPOURAS: No, it is just interesting when I hear you guys speaking about the topic. I mean, look, at the end of the day, this is a woman who was
pursuing a guy who did not want her. Many people have been there when they get emotional and when love turns into hate and she had a text message that
said that. You know, "My love starting to hate for him."
So, she was just so angry with him that she ended it. I think this is very classic, honestly. There are so many cases where this happens, where
people in a relationship, one person does not want the other person and the other person becomes sour and then to be dumped by somebody who is Miss
Ohio, not very good ending.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Not a good ending, but I still think it is still so shocking to me, Sam, that she gets upset enough to want to kill this guy and yet all
the while carrying on with another guy that, to me --
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: -- again, this is stuff that I cannot --
SCHACHER: Because she is all about her, Dr. Drew. She is all about her. But I wanted to comment because we are blowing up on Facebook right now.
And, I want to share this post from Michael because it is exactly what Evy just said.
So, Michael wrote, "This is why I have broken things off with women through texts. They tend to turn emotional and crazy when you dump them. I have
no idea what women are capable of when you break up with them. Yikes."
PINSKY: Anahita what did you want to say there?
SEDAGHATFAR: I was going to say, this is why I think, Dr. Drew, she really should have taken the stand. Because in a self-defense case, the jurors
want to hear from the defendant. They want to hear what was in her state of mind. They want to hear that she feared for her life.
She is the only one that can testify to that. Another part of me wishing that she testified is because she could have possibly explained away some
of these incriminating text messages.
PINSKY: And yet, Anahita, we know that she has a severe personality disorder. She has psychotic process. This business of shooting him in the
face because he wanted a nose job -- first we thought it was extreme narcissism but then the defense psychologist tells us it was, in fact,
psychotic process.
Things are not connecting the dots, are not connecting properly. They make sense to her but not to the rest of us. Some of that may have come out on
the stand, do you understand?
SEDAGHATFAR: That is true.
PINSKY: In cross-examination, they could get her to easily expose how the world is there as her oyster only. Evy, you want to say something?
SEDAGHATFAR: But, I would have wanted them to exploit that fact, Dr. Drew. I would have wanted the defense to embrace that. Once that testimony came
out, I think that is what the defense should have done. Because it possibly could have gained some sympathy for her.
PINSKY: Evy?
SEDAGHATFAR: Honestly, Anahita, I love you, girl, but I got to disagree with you on that one. Putting her on the stand, absolutely no way. Have
you seen her in her interview? Even just her 911 phone call, that woman is just -- I would not put her on the stand.
Putting her on the stand, she is going to say the wrong thing she has been saying the wrong things, which is why she is also in this hot mess.
Absolutely, I think they did the right thing keeping her off the stand.
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not think so. I do not think that 911 call was against her.
SCHACHER: No.
PINSKY: What?
SEDAGHATFAR: I think that actually was in her favor.
PINSKY: The 911 call?
POUMPOURAS: Absolutely. Have you heard that 911 call? No way.
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: Can we -- hang on. We are going to pull up a little bit of the 911 call. Because to us --
SCHACHER: So rehearsed.
PINSKY: It sounds rehearsed. It sounds like she planned it all out with her mom before she called the operator. The things she says to the
operator sort of do not make sense and are bizarre.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Here it is. This is just before 9:00 P.M. on October 12, 2012.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE OPERATOR: Campbell County 911.
SHAYNA HUBERS, KILLED HER BOYFRIEND IN SELF-DEFENSE: Ma`am, I killed my boyfriend in self-defense.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE OPERATOR: What did you kill him with?
HUBERS: A gun. A loaded gun in the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: Have you been injured?
SHAYNA HUBERS: I am not injured, ma`am. I was thrown into the side of the couch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE OPERATOR: Where are you?
HUBERS: I am standing about 3 feet from his dead body.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE OPERATOR: OK. Are you sure that he is dead?
HUBERS: Yes, he is dead, ma`am. He is completely dead. Ma`am, and then because he was twitching and I knew he was going to die anyway and he was
making funny noises, I shot him a couple more times just to kill him because I knew he would have been --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE OPERATOR: I am sorry, you said you shot him a couple more times after that?
HUBERS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: How many times did you shoot him total?
SHAYNA HUBERS: I do not know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: So, you shot him instead of calling 911?
HUBERS: Do what?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Shayna do you want that -- I mean Anahita, you want that craziness on the stand?
SCHACHER: No.
SEDAGHATFAR: I absolutely do and I will tell you why, Dr. Drew. I said this last week on your show. The mere fact that she called 911 and did not
flee the scene shows that she did not have consciousness of guilt.
PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait. Evy. Evy. No, no.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, in my mind --
PINSKY: Evy. Evy.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, let me finish first, Dr. Drew. She sounds hysterical.
PINSKY: She is hysterical.
SEDAGHATFAR: She sounds scared. She just killed someone. She just killed another human being. How would you suggest somebody should act in that
situation?
SCHACHER: It was contrived.
PINSKY: Evy?
POUMPOURAS: Wait, wait, wait. Anahita, so, you are saying because she called 911 she did not do -- she could not have done it? Do you realize
killing somebody is easy? Getting rid of the body not so easy.
SEDAGHATFAR: No. No. I did not say that she could not have done it. No, no, no.
POUMPOURAS: But just because she called 911, many, many, many individuals commit these crimes call 911 because they do not know what to do after the
fact. She put her story together and, by the way, that clip you guys just played within the first five seconds when she speaks and says, "Ma`am, I
just killed my boyfriend in self-defense." Boom, right there! Do not even play the rest of it for me. She is telling you her story, which she
choreographed. Right then and there deceptive. Anahita, we have to talk.
PINSKY: Sam.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK. Dr. Drew, let me just respond.
POUMPOURAS: Anahita, we have to talk.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. I was not saying that just because someone made a 911 call, that means they did not do it. That was not what I said. That is
actually a misrepresentation of what I said. What I said, though, was that that 911 call, in my opinion, my expert opinion, weighs in the defense
favor for the reasons that I stated.
She did not flee the scene. The law looks at that as showing consciousness of guilt. That is what the jurors will be instructed to are consider.
And, her reaction, Dr. Drew, let me ask you as my expert witness, how is one supposed to react when they have just taken the life of another human
being?
PINSKY: I would not expect the degree of labiality from hysterics to sort of a weird detached. That kind of back and forth was bizarre. And,
whenever the operator behaved like a normal human being and questioned her story, she went, "What? Huh?"
SEDAGHATFAR: That was unprofessional.
PINSKY: Unprofessional. She was the only sane person on the tape.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
PINSKY: Sam, what do you think?
SCHACHER: Yes, I do not understand why we would be blaming the 911 operator here. OK? I am sorry. When I heard that 911 call, I heard I, I,
I, ma`am, ma`am, ma`am, ma`am. It was almost as if I was listening to someone trying to pretend that they had just been abused and they were
acting in self-defense. It was so predictable. It was so rehearsed. She is a horrible actress. Thank God, because it just allows us all to kind of
hear it and see it for what it is.
PINSKY: Next, we will play a little more of that 911 call.
And, later I am going to get into with my panel The Dr. Oz` controversy. What their opinions are. I will give you my opinion. We will get into it
after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE OPERATOR: Campbell County 911.
SHAYNA HUBERS, KILLED HER BOYFRIEND IN SELF-DEFENSE: Ma`am, I killed my boyfriend in self-defense.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Shayna Hubers is on trial for murder.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HUBERS: Across the room and I was very startled. I was laying on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: OK.
HUBERS: And, I killed him.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: But prosecutors say she shot her boyfriend six times because he broke up with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: All right, what is his name?
HUBERS: Ryan Carter Poston. He is an attorney in Cincinnati.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A jury will have to decide, was the shooting justified or is she a love-crazed killer?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HUBERS: I mean, I am not a murder, ma`am. I just killed him in self --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: Have you had a history of domestic violence with him?
HUBERS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: OK. And, is this your gun?
HUBERS: No, this is his gun. He keeps loaded guns in the house.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am not a murderer. I just killed somebody. Back with Evy, Sam, Anahita, and joining us Lee Ann Tweeden, host of LA Today on AM 570 Radio.
Shayna Hubers, who you saw there, told 911 that she -- that her boyfriend had a history of domestic violence, kept loaded guns around.
I am wondering if you guys -- do you guys have that - if control room could put up -- you are going to have trouble finding this, but there is a thing
the prosecution or the defense submitted about Mr. Poston wanting to have a scorched earth because he was involved in a lawsuit. They presented him as
a violent guy. This was an interesting -- yes, we cannot find it just yet. But, evy, what is your reaction to how they presented this?
POUMPOURAS: Well, you know, I was listening to this tape and you picked on the key thing at the end, which I like, Dr. Drew. She said, "I am not a
murder. I just killed someone." I am not a murderer. I just killed someone by mistake." The other thing that is interesting --
PINSKY: But before you go on, is that criminal thinking? Like it is whatever she says it is as a murderer, you know? In other words, the world
again once again is her world and whatever she says is a murderer.
POUMPOURAS: Yes.
PINSKY: Right?
POUMPOURAS: Well, exactly. "I am not a murderer, I just killed somebody. It is OK. No big deal. And, the other interesting thing is she talks
about the weapons.
PINSKY: Yes.
POUMPOURAS: Hence it is his fault. It is not my fault, the guns were in this house. Again, this 911 call when you listen to, it just bleed. It is
choreographed. I completely -- am on track with Samantha Schacher on this one. I mean everything is choreographed. This woman, to set this up in
such a way so that it was like she is living out a play.
PINSKY: All right. Evy, sam.
POUMPOURAS: It is so nice and neat.
PINSKY: Let me add Lee Ann to the chorus, before we go after Anahita. Leeann what do you say?
LEEANN TWEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I think this woman is crazy, Dr. Drew. As I was researching the story --
PINSKY: Slow down. Slow down. Hold on. I think she is, too, but that does not make somebody a killer.
TWEEDEN: But she is brilliant.
PINSKY: She is also brilliant, but it does not make somebody a killer. That is why I am sympathetic to what Evy was saying.
TWEEDEN: Well, I read all of the things that she was saying, the texts that she was sending her girlfriend ten days before she killed him or
murdered him, however you want to say it. She is like, "Oh, you know, we are going to a shooting range. Maybe ,I can accidentally shoot him."
Whoops.
PINSKY: Yes.
TWEEDEN: The woman who was in prison with her came out and testified that she said, "You know, I was going to plead insanity but you know I am kind
of smart. I have a high IQ, so maybe I am just going to plead like the battered woman syndrome, so that will work for me." So, this woman is
obviously thinking things through her head. She is super smart. She is trying to gain the system.
PINSKY: Let me go -- I am going to ask each of you this question. Have you ever been so mad at a boyfriend even when you were an adolescent that
you fantasized about doing something to somebody? Is anybody --
TWEEDEN: Maybe punching them but never killing.
PINSKY: Leeann, punching. Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: Never killing somebody.
PINSKY: But what is the worst?
SEDAGHATFAR: Maybe doing something violent.
PINSKY: Like what?
SCHACHER: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not know. Keying their car.
PINSKY: Keying the car.
TWEEDEN: Right. Exactly.
PINSKY: The car always the representative of the male, the car. Sam? The worst fantasy?
SCHACHER: The worst fantasy is I scanned the room for objects, but I would never -- I would never.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: They both reach for the gun.
SCHACHER: Never!
PINSKY: OK. And, Evy?
POUMPOURAS: You know, I have never fantasized, but I have been in the moment where I have been so heated where I actually thought I was going to
strike somebody. And, I never did but I have had that emotion where it is like, keep it in check, Evy, you are about to punch someone in the face
with a chair.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: OK. So -- and I ask that because, first all, I just wanted to know but secondly --
TWEEDEN: You do not have to worry any either of us.
POUMPOURAS: Are you worried, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: I want to know who I am dealing with.
POUMPOURAS: Are you worried?
PINSKY: A little bit. But, secondly, what is it that do you think that is different given that, that fantasy does flash across people`s mind? What
is it that is different about this girl that she then goes and does it and does it in such a tremendously violent way? Who wants to answer that?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I think everyone has a trigger point and some people reach that trigger point faster.
PINSKY: No. I kind of disagree with that. I do not think so, Anahita.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Maybe you. Maybe we have learned somethins more about Anahita. But, I know I think that some people can be pushed to that point and others
really will not be. I think that is kind of what Evy`s argue.
TWEEDEN: But, I think she thought she could get away with it, too, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: And, that is what Leeann is saying too. She was sort of gaming. But, Evy, you would say -- would you not? That only certain kinds of
people would go to this place, right?
POUMPOURAS: Yes. I think it depends. I think it comes out to socio biology, really, Dr. Drew. It is where -- it is what is your genetic
makeup? Who are you and how do you deal with your environment with the stimuli that come at you? Some people you put them in an environment very
hostile, they are still able to make those right decisions, the good decisions. And then other people make the wrong decisions. So, it is
both, biology. It is genetics and it is also how do you deal with your problems? The stimulus around you.
PINSKY: Leeann?
TWEEDEN: And, you know, Dr. Drew, I have a 19-month-old son and you know the things that we are dealing with right now is like impulse control.
PINSKY: Yes. That is right.
TWEEDEN: You know you have to teach young children you cannot punch when you do not get your fruit right now or you cannot do certain things. It is
like this woman has grown up and she just still does not know her impulse control.
She was so angry that he was going to go out with this other beautiful Miss Ohio that she just saw a gun and she is going to shoot him. You know, I am
going to get away with that. I am just going to call my mom.
PINSKY: All right.
TWEEDEN: Then let me call 911 and go, "I just killed someone but he was trying to attack me. It was self-defense."
PINSKY: And, final, Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes. I have a couple of Facebook posts really quickly, Dr. Drew, in response to your question. So Sue C., she says, "You know, they
say the most dangerous time is after or during a breakup of relationships."
PINSKY: Sure. Sure.
SCHACHER: "Please, people, if you break up, let go." And, then in response to Leeann --
PINSKY: Yes, why do you want to be with somebody who does not want to be with you?
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: It is a bizarre --
TWEEDEN: She admits that to her friend. I loved him more than he loved me.
SCHACHER: Yes. And in response to you, Leeann, Vivian writes "Miss Ohio is stunning. This was a case of cold-blooded murder, jealousy, rage, et
cetera. I hope she gets life without parole."
PINSKY: All right. I have to wrap this up with some of my thoughts, which is it is interesting to me with my panel here we all ended up really saying
what I have been saying all along, which is of course it is genetics. It is environment that creates how our brain functions and how therefore our
mind functions.
And, we can sort of add up the score with this lady based on what the expert said, in fact her own defense witnessed said she had a psychotic
process. She does not connect the dots normally. She wants to give somebody whom she loved a nose job by shooting them in the face.
She wants to kill somebody because their feelings -- their misery is impinging on how I am feeling, so I have to put an end to that. She is
agitated. She has a history of sexual abuse. She has a history of bipolar, and is in sort of a semi-manic state here.
She has a history of PTSD. You add the scores, she has a tremendous, tremendous psychological and psychiatric problems here. But that does make
somebody a killer. It does not. We cannot add to the stigma for people that have any or all of these conditions and say they even might be a
killer.
It is a way of understanding the frame of mind that she was in that set her up to be the person that is this killer. The time to get help always, as I
say, is long before something like this happens. There is no reason for anyone to get to this point if these proclivities are what are underlying
risk factors for somebody to go here.
Next up, I am going to take on the Dr. Oz` issue. He is getting heat from critics. I got something to say about it. We will see what our panel
says. And a reminder, we are on Instagram. Check out our behind the scene photos. We post new ones every day. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. MEHMET OZ, TURKISH-AMERICAN CARDIOTHORACIC SURGEON/TELEVISION PERSONALITY: All I am asking for is one week. It is my seven-day miracle
plan to boost your metabolism.
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This is what it does to your belly fat. Whoa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Evy, Sam, Anahita, and Leeann Tweeden. T.V.`s Dr. Oz under fire for a group of physicians who claim he is pushing
questionable medical advice on his daytime talk show. Now, what they want -- what people do not understand is they are not taking issue with his show
or what he says on his show.
Dr. Oz himself, when he evaluates himself, which he has done under physician statements that he has published today. He says, "You know, I
went too far on the appetite suppressions and the belly melt and that stuff." But, he talks about coconut oil. Coconut oils, these are good
things.
So mixed in there, there were some very legitimate things he was talking about, but he went too far. He went sort of over the line, and he called
himself out on it. Listen, he said, "I am trying to do television and that this show is not a medical show per se. It is a show about maintaining
health."
He sees himself as a champion of trying to prevent illness. Now, as a physician he is the vice chair of the department of surgery at Columbia
University. He is a cardiothoracic surgeon. He is bringing up our next generation of surgeons. I have known him for decades.
He is a superior surgeon. You would want him to operate on you and you would want him to be training our next generation of surgeons. My
question, Evy, is what is up with these guys that they insist that his faculty position be threatened? Why do they come at him and ask him to
please do a better job on the television show?
POUMPOURAS: Yes. You know, I did a lot of research on this one. I was reading them. There seems to be an issue here with GMO, Genetically
Modified Organism in food.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
POUMPOURAS: And, so, the people that are actually attacking Dr. Oz are people who are proponents of GMOs, Genetically Modified Foods --
PINSKY: Well, no, they are more than proponents, Evy. They are involved in the business of GMOs --
SCHACHER: Yes.
POUMPOURAS: They are involved. Yes.
PINSKY: -- and Oz frequently takes issue with GMOs not labeling their products. He is OK with GMOs. He wants them labeled, that is all.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: And, it seems as though these guys did not identify their conflict of interest when they signed this testimonial, would you agree? Evy?
POUMPOURAS: Yes, I absolutely agree. And, because Dr. Oz is on the opposite side of the fence they have decided to use this to attack him.
And, the thing is with conventional medicine and you know this better than anybody, Dr. Drew. Dr. Oz is going into different areas outside of
conventional medicine to incorporate a better, healthier lifestyle for people on all levels.
PINSKY: And to be fair -- wait. Anahita is saying no, but hold on a second. It is a T.V. show, Anahita. Let us go to you, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: I get it.
PINSKY: It is a television show.
SEDAGHATFAR: I get it is a television show, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Right. Yes, it is a T.V. show. He got to keep their interest. You know how T.V. shows are. We are always pushing the envelope to make
things interesting. And, he has said some stuff that he is pulled back from. Yes, it may have affected his reputation somewhat. He has not had a
chance now to rebuild it. Let us help him do a better job.
SEDAGHATFAR: I disagree. I get that it is a television show. I get that it is entertainment. But at the end of the day, it is a medical show, Dr.
Drew. No. He said it is not.
SEDAGHATFAR: Call the doctor -- Dr. Drew, it is called "The Dr. Oz Show." I do not care what he says. And, my main issue with this, first, he
admitted that he made some representations on the air that were not necessarily supported by medicine or supported by science. He admitted to
that. That is fine. But my big thing, Dr. Drew, is that if he has a conflict of interest --
PINSKY: He does not.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- that needs to be disclosed.
PINSKY: He has no conflict of interest. He is not in the business of any of this.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, apparently some of the people that are complaining and asking --
PINSKY: The complainers are. The complainers have the conflict.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, Dr. Drew, they are basing it on -- again, I do not watch the show, but from what I read they are basing it on the fact that he
is presenting certain diets and certain supplements --
PINSKY: That he is not invested in -- No. He does not get any -- No. listen, I have been on the show many times. He is not in any way
benefiting personally or financially from the things he talks about in the show.
SEDAGHATFAR: How could that be possible, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: How could that be possible? He brings people --
SEDAGHATFAR: They are the sponsors of the show. They are sponsors of the show. You mean to tell me that fat burner diet does not sponsor the show?
PINSKY: I do not know if that is true. No, I do not believe they do. He invites people on to present things.
SEDAGHATFAR: It is a free advertisement for the show, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Well, but, they do not pay to be on the show and that he does not get kickbacks from it.
SEDAGHATFAR: I disagree.
PINSKY: I have to take a break.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK.
PINSKY: We will keep this conversation going and be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Evy, Sam, Anahita, and Leeann and talking about Dr. Oz and the efforts of ten physicians who want him fired from his faculty
position as a cardiothoracic at Columbia University. The university stands by him. He, of course, is a highly regarded surgeon.
But, Anahita, you were talking about him getting kickbacks for some of the things shown in the show and that would be a problem if that were the case.
Look at this one. "Dr. Drew must have received tons of money from Dr. Oz for that response. LMAO. I hope he is being tongue-in-cheek."
But, this is how weird we are, when people cannot trust anybody for anything. Anahita, even you were questioning what he was doing, why he was
putting these things on television.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. Well, I was not saying necessarily he got a kickback but in one way or another when he is talking about how wonderful these
products are, how wonderful these diets are, so the sponsors --
PINSKY: Is it enough to say -- No. no, no. They are not sponsors. They are having --
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, it is free advertising.
SCHACHER: Anahita.
PINSKY: But, let us say his ratings went up because of it, is that sufficient benefit on his behalf?
SEDAGHATFAR: I think the benefit is it gives them stories to cover and those companies that he is talking about that are so great for the diet
pills and things like that, it is a free form of advertising.
PINSKY: All right. Sam, I think it is just envy. My physician peers all think they should be on television. They do not understand what it is
sometimes. It is a particular discipline. He is good at it. He is the one trying to help people in this country be healthier. What is so wrong
with that? Let us help him do a better job at it rather than trying to get him to lose a job that we want him to stay in.
SCHACHER: Right. Absolutely, Dr. Drew. I think -- I love the fact that he speaks about conventional medicine, but I also love the fact that he
talks about alternative medicine. I am sorry, as a viewer, I do want to learn about the benefits of coconut oil. And, he does not talk about a
brand. I do not think like the coconut oil industry is giving him a kickback.
And, let us talk about those ten physicians. Because I did the research and those physicians seem politically motivated, very corrupt, not only
tied into the GMOs but tied into big tobacco. One of them has a number of fraud charges against him. So, if you really take the time to do the
research you will see that they are attacking him and it is really sad.
PINSKY: Yes. And, Leeann, again, they are not taking issue with what he did on television. They are just saying, "Oh, he is becoming less of the
stature of someone we want on our faculty," but that is so silly.
TWEEDEN: Well, I mean I kind of agree with Anahita on certain points, where he is saying we are not a doctor show. Well, then take the doctor
out of your title because people that watch --
PINSKY: Well, Leeann, Leeann, hold on. So, should he do what some of the other doctors on T.V. have done, which is let his license lapse and not
practice medicine, so he really is not involved?
TWEEDEN: No, but a cardio thoracic surgeon is telling you on the air that like take my seven-day trial, you will burn fat. You saw a big fat belly
go -- look everybody would be skinny, Dr. Drew. You know and you are an addiction specialist that is not the truth. That is not going to happen.
PINSKY: You are right.
TWEEDEN: So, why is he promoting that?
PINSKY: Listen, and we could talk critically of that, that he really does not have the clinical experience to understand how difficult this is.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: But, let us help him do a better job rather than insist that he lose his job as a cardiothoracic surgeon, which I want him to keep. DVR us
then you can watch us anytime. "Forensic Files" now.
END
