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Cruz and Kasich Team Up to Stop Trump; Clinton Jabs GOP, Not Sanders, Before Primary; Sanders Supporter Invokes Lewinsky In Speech. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 25, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:02] CUOMO: What is talking about? She was their server. She heard what they were talking about. Understood where they were coming from. So she picked up the bill and left a note, saying, I can't imagine the day you've all had, let alone what you go through every day.

PEREIRA: Way to go.

CAMEROTA: That's wonderful.

PEREIRA: You're stellar.

COOPER: That's great. All right. Time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.

Hi, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Hi. Have a --

PEREIRA: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Have a great day. NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, divide and conquer. Cruz and Kasich's new plan, team up to stop Trump.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: 65 percent to 70 percent of Republicans nationwide recognize that Donald Trump is not the best candidate to go head to head with Hillary Clinton.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm winning by millions and millions of votes. I'm winning by 300 -- almost 300 delegates.

COSTELLO: And is he about to rack up even more? Five states voting Tuesday.

And Hillary Clinton looking ahead to November.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When you hear what Trump and Cruz say, it's not only offensive. It's dangerous.

COSTELLO: But Bernie Sanders says she's got to get past him first. SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are going to

fight for every last vote until the -- until California and the D.C. primary.

COSTELLO: Plus --

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have approved the deployment of up to 250 additional U.S. personnel in Syria, including special forces to keep up this momentum.

COSTELLO: More American troops. But they won't lead the fight. Will they?

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

A major twist in a political season that has already tossed aside the normal playbook. Donald Trump's Republican challengers are now joining forces for a single goal, to keep the nomination out of Mr. Trump's hands.

The historic move explained by Cruz's campaign manager, quote, "Having Donald Trump at the top of the ticket in November would be a sure disaster for the Republicans." And adding, "Having him as our nominee would set the party back a generation."

CNN's Chris Frates live in Philadelphia at a Kasich event next hour.

Chris, tell us more.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Carol. This really is an extraordinary deal between John Kasich and Ted Cruz. It's essentially a nonaggression pact with a divide and conquer strategy against Donald Trump.

Here's how it would work. John Kasich is ceding Indiana to Ted Cruz. And if you look at the polling there, you can you start to understand why. Donald Trump is leading both Cruz and Kasich in that state by double-digits in a three-way race. But if Cruz were not to compete there and Ted Cruz can go head-to-head against Donald Trump, it becomes a statistical dead heat. And that gives Cruz the opportunity to try to pick up all 57 of those delegates at stake. It's a winner- take-all opportunity, and that could help keep Donald Trump from getting that magic number of 1237 that he needs to clinch the nomination.

Now similarly in New Mexico and Oregon, Ted Cruz saying he's not going to compete against John Kasich there so Kasich has an opportunity to pick up more delegates against Donald Trump. And that's because it's almost mathematically impossible for Ted Cruz or John Kasich to get to that magic number of 1237. So they want to be able to stop Donald Trump from getting there so they can go to Cleveland and come out of that contested convention. They both believe if it goes to a contested convention, they have a shot at that nomination.

Now of course Donald Trump not too happy about this news. In fact he was tweeting just this morning, and I want to read you this tweet, Carol. He said, quote, "Shows how weak and desperate Lyin' Ted is, when he has to team with a guy who openly can't stand him and has only one win and 38 losses."

And, Carol, it also gives more ammunition to Donald Trump's complaint over the last few days that this system is rigged. In fact he's now saying that Cruz and Kasich are colluding. Here's what he said on the campaign trail just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Cruz is going, and he's wining and dining and dinner in hotels and all this stuff. He's bribing people, essentially, to vote. Now he can't do it in the first ballot because they're locked into me in the first ballot.

I just read an article that Cruz is working really hard to -- I don't want to use the word bribe, but to bribe the delegates from all over the place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: Now the only thing that remains to be seen here, Carol, is whether or not Kasich and Cruz supporters will follow their lead. Will Kasich supporters in Indiana vote for Cruz? Will Cruz supporters in New Mexico and Oregon go for Kasich? That remains to be seen and something that we'll be watching very, very closely, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Chris Frates live in Philadelphia this morning.

Extraordinary, right? I mean, it's downright strange. Kasich and Cruz are asking voters to cast a ballot not for them necessarily but to deny Trump the nomination.

With me now, CNN political commentator and Trump supporter Jeffrey Lord. I'm also joined by Robert McFarlane, he's a surrogate for John Kasich and a former national security adviser for President Reagan.

[09:05:06] Welcome to both of you.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hello.

ROBERT MCFARLANE, JOHN KASICH SURROGATE: Good morning.

LORD: Happy Monday, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Happy Monday.

So, Jeffrey, I guess I'll start with you. Mr. Trump is accusing Ted Cruz and John Kasich of collusion. Why is he using that word?

LORD: Well, that's what they're doing. I have to say, Carol, I am astounded at this. Between them, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump have gotten 60 percent to 80 percent of the vote from Republicans who have had it with the Republican establishment, and Ted Cruz, who has been remarkably good on this, up until now, talking about the Washington cartel and all of that kind of thing, all of a sudden switches sides. I mean, he's basically has sold out here in some sort of Republican Party Munich. I am really, really astounded at this. I think this is frankly going to backfire. I mean, it's just such a bad mistake on his part and it's going to hurt.

COSTELLO: Well, Robert, just -- it is just so strange. It's like this -- it's a divide and conquer strategy, right? It is odd. Kasich and Cruz have been bashing one another as recently as yesterday. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A vote for Cruz or Trump, frankly, is a vote for Hillary Clinton. At the end of it all, I think when we're at the convention, the delegates are going to want to know who can beat Hillary. And these guys don't have enough time to turn around super high negatives.

CRUZ: As we stand here today, there are two people, and only two people, that have any plausible path whatsoever to winning the Republican nomination. Me and Donald Trump. As I said, plausible path.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So bashing each other, you know, like yesterday. Now they form a partnership. Kasich by the way canceled all of his events in Indiana to pave the way for Ted Cruz but the Indiana primary, Robert, is a week from tomorrow. Isn't it a little late?

MCFARLANE: Well, no. Popular misunderstanding is that the delegates at the convention are going to be pledged forever and ever. As you know, nobody will arrive there with a first ballot nomination number of delegates. And after that, it really depends on the work you have done beforehand. Right now and for the past eight months in the actual delegate selection process, Governor Kasich is confident his position in Indiana, in the actual delegates that he has engaged, is going to be very much in his favor at the convention on the second ballot and beyond if necessary.

So there's nothing about collusion. It's about doing your homework before you get to the convention. It's going to be contested. I've been to four conventions, one of them contested. So this is a very much ground game that's played before you ever arrive at the convention and selection of delegates that are going to be with you on the second ballot and beyond.

COSTELLO: Interesting. So let me get this straight. So John Kasich is asking the voters of Indiana to vote for Ted Cruz to keep Donald Trump out. And once those delegates from Indiana get to the convention in Cleveland, they're still going to throw their support behind John Kasich. Is that right, Robert? MCFARLANE: Well, delegates are allocated in the states, in the

primary, based upon who wins the votes in the primary process. But if that vote on the first ballot doesn't yield a majority for any candidate, then the state pledge originally made no longer governs the outcome. And people can be nominated. A second ballot made, a third, a fourth if necessary. And at that point, it is the judgment of individual delegates from each state that's going to determine the outcome.

And that's why it's so important for a sensible candidate to have done the homework and hard work before you get there, making sure that delegates are selected who agree with your point of view. That's why Governor Kasich is in a very good position.

COSTELLO: OK. So --

LORD: Carol?

COSTELLO: Yes?

LORD: I'm talking to you from Pennsylvania where we'll have our primary tomorrow. And interestingly, the Trump delegates and the Cruz delegates are well out there, under their own names, campaigning for Trump and Cruz. I got three phone calls into this house from people identifying delegates only by name. And saying vote for these delegates and we are unaffiliated with anyone.

They gave the name of the committee, however, which I looked up and lo and behold, they're for John Kasich. So in other words, they're playing a little cute here. They're trying to get you to vote for delegates without saying who they're supporting. When, in fact, if you do the homework they are supporting John Kasich.

COSTELLO: Interesting. OK, Jeffrey, I wanted to ask you about something else. And it's -- it involves one of the Koch brothers.

[09:10:06] The Koch brothers are big money men for Republicans.

MCFARLANE: Right.

COSTELLO: Well, Charles Koch intimated over the weekend that Hillary Clinton might be a better president than any of the Republican nominees. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So is it possible another Clinton could be better than another Republican next time around?

CHARLES KOCH, CEO, KOCH INDUSTRIES: It's possible. It's possible.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You couldn't see yourself supporting Hillary Clinton, could you?

KOCH: Well, her -- we would have to believe her actions would be quite different than her rhetoric. Let me put it that way. On some of the Republican candidates we would have to believe their actions would be quite different than the rhetoric we've heard so far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Jeffrey, I nearly fell off my chair.

LORD: Me, too, Carol. I can't wait until Harry Reid hears this. I would love to see Harry Reid explain why he is on the same side of things with the Koch brothers.

COSTELLO: Well -- but if Donald --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Isn't -- in listening to Mr. Koch, right, is it possible that Donald Trump could ever bring the Republican Party together? If you have a hardcore Republican like Charles Koch intimating he might support Hillary Clinton for president.

LORD: Yes. What Donald Trump is doing is the old Reagan formula of bringing in Democrats, independents and Republicans, who are conservatives. Donald Trump was here in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, on Thursday night at the Farm Show Arena. He had 10,000 people. And because I'm on your show among others a lot of these people came up and spoke to me, and explained exactly how they got there, why they're for Donald Trump, et cetera. He really is bringing in new people. So yes, I do think he can win.

COSTELLO: But, Robert, Mr. Trump may be bringing in new people but he's not bringing in enough women, he's not bringing in minority voters at all. So can Jeffrey really say that?

MCFARLANE: Well, Carol, if you look at the polling for the past eight months, every time and every poll, the winner always comes out in a head-to-head race between Clinton and Kasich, with Kasich winning, and Cruz and Trump both losing significantly.

And so when they get to the convention sensible delegates on the second ballots are going to make their choices on who is it that can win as demonstrated in polls for eight months now. So there's no real choice to be made except who is it that can win. And of course Governor Kasich has the record and the experience, the knowledge to govern sensibly. And so it's going to be an interesting convention. But the polls all tell you that second ballot and beyond, John Kasich is in very good position.

COSTELLO: I do think it will be an interesting convention. And I have to leave it there.

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: The only state he's won, Carol, was Ohio.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Jeffrey Lord, Robert McFarlane, thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a major candidate for president says his party isn't being fair to him. And it's not Donald Trump. It's Bernie Sanders.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: One day before a potentially decisive Democratic primary, Hillary Clinton seems to be looking ahead to the general election. Clinton is rallying supporters in Delaware and Pennsylvania today.

She hit hard at Donald Trump over the weekend while saying virtually nothing about Bernie Sanders. For his part, Sanders is vowing to take his fight all the way to the convention, even as he admits the road ahead is difficult. More now from Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hillary Clinton is gearing up for a five-state primary battle with Bernie Sanders, but it doesn't sound that way on the stump.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What Trump and Cruz say, it's not only offensive, it's dangerous.

CARROLL: The Democratic frontrunner's weekend speeches were saturated with attacks against her presumed general election rival, Donald Trump.

CLINTON: Donald trump actually says wages are too high in America. Trump says things like, bar all Muslims from coming in the country.

CARROLL: Ted Cruz wasn't spared from Clinton's blistering criticism either.

CLINTON: When Ted Cruz says, hey, let's round up all the Muslim- Americans by making sure that we have police watching all of them, the commissioner of the NYPD really summed it up when he was asked. He said Ted Cruz doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

CARROLL: With a close lead across the polls in all five states, Clinton is clearly focusing on moving past Sanders. But the Vermont senator is not budging, continuing to draw a stark contrast between them.

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This campaign, unlike Secretary Clinton's, has not raised $15 million from Wall Street. As secretary of state, she pushed the fracking technology.

CARROLL: With nearly 1,400 delegates on the line this Tuesday, Sanders vows to keep fighting for each vote.

SANDERS: This campaign is doing well and will win.

CARROLL: Sanders is promising to wage war against Clinton all the way until June.

SANDERS: We do have a path to victory. I think we have come a very, very long way in the last year. We're going to fight for every last vote until California and the D.C. primary.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: As you heard there, Carol, Sanders intends to stay the course through California. He was asked, though, what it would take to get some sort of endorsement for Clinton. He said a couple of things.

He said first, she would have to first stand up to billionaire donors out there. She would also have to fight for health care for all and, third, she would have to make college affordable for young people -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Jason Carroll reporting live from Hagerstown, Maryland, this morning. Thank you.

For Bernie Sanders, the weekend brought another high-profile and controversial moment from one of his supporters, Actress Rosario Dawson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSARIO DAWSON, ACTRESS: We are really fending for ourselves right now. We are literally under attack for not just supporting the other candidate.

[09:20:08]Now I'm with Monica Lewinsky with this. Bullying is bad. She has actually dedicated her life now to talking about that. And now, as a campaign strategy, we are being bullied.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Bernie Sanders talked with CNN's Jake Tapper about Dawson invoking Monica Lewinsky's name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD": Do you think it's appropriate for your surrogates to be talking about Monica Lewinsky on the campaign trail?

SANDERS: We have many, many -- Rosario is a great actress and she's doing a great job for us. She has been a passionate fighter to see that we increase the voter turnout that we fight for racial economic environmental justice.

TAPPER: But yes or no, should your surrogates be talking about Monica Lewinsky?

SANDERS: I have no idea in what context Rosario was talking about her. I would hope that all of our people focus on the real issues facing working people and the massive level of income and wealth inequality that we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: OK. So joining me now to talk about this and more, Larry Sabato, the director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics. Hi, Larry.

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UVA'S CENTER FOR POLITICS: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So here is the context, OK. Rosario Dawson was talking about a million dollar effort by a pro-Clinton super PAC to fight attacks from Sanders' supporters on social media. So, was invoking Lewinsky's name fair game?

SABATO: Well, almost anything is fair game in war and politics is war. I suppose you could say it's fair game. I think it was stupid. The reason I think it was stupid is because there just aren't many votes in the Democratic primary for invoking the name of Monica Lewinsky. The general election may be different but in a Democratic primary, no way.

COSTELLO: So why didn't Bernie Sanders come out and say, you know what, Monica Lewinsky's name has no place in Democratic politics at this time?

SABATO: I think he should have. He didn't because he didn't want to offend a very prominent actor of his. He likes to stick with his friends and continue to battle their enemies. Sometimes you have to admonish your friends and I think Sanders should have done that.

COSTELLO: Well, he admonished the doctor, his supporter that intimated Hillary Clinton was a corporate whore. Why not Rosario Dawson? Is it because he's seeing the end of the line or wants to gain momentum or why?

SABATO: Maybe the standard is obscenity. No obscenity issues, he doesn't condemn. I don't know. You'll have to ask Bernie Sanders for more information.

COSTELLO: Sanders does say that the party hasn't been fair to him. He says, you know, the debates have taken place on weekdays or weekends when not many people are watching and the Democratic Party was always against him.

He is the outside candidate and this whole process hasn't been fair to him. Is it sour grapes or does what he say -- what he says have a kernel of truth?

SABATO: I think he's on firmer ground there, Carol, because from the very beginning the Democratic Party knew they wanted Hillary Clinton to be the nominee. This was back when there were five candidates for president on the Democratic side.

So I don't think it was so much anti-Bernie Sanders as it was pro- Hillary Clinton. He's certainly right about the debates. They were scheduled to fit the convenience and desires of the Clinton campaign team rather than to help Sanders or any of the other candidates. COSTELLO: OK, so Bernie Sanders has a point there. He doesn't think that the Democratic Party has been fair to him. How does this work? At some point, does Hillary Clinton reach out to Bernie Sanders and acknowledge that and say, gosh, I get it, but I need your help now? Like what happens? How does that work?

SABATO: That's a good question. Of course, she has the president of 2008 wherein Barack Obama had to reach out to her and she also reached out for him. She could do lots of things. If he has a campaign debt, she can help pay it, although, I doubt he is going to have one.

She can offer platform plants that won't put her in a bad position in the fall and yet will please Bernie Sanders about the minimum wage, about Wall Street.

She can also consider candidates that Bernie Sanders once considered for vice president and maybe she will try and pick someone that will meet Bernie Sanders' criteria or some of the criteria.

COSTELLO: Does that have to happen sooner rather than later?

SABATO: Well, it's not going to happen until after June 7th. I think it's very clear that Bernie Sanders will right to the final primary day. He wants to compete in California, the other states. And that's his right. After all Hillary Clinton set the precedent in 2008. That's precisely what she did, even when she was behind Barack for the Democratic nomination.

[09:25:07]COSTELLO: Larry Sabato, thanks for your insight as always.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the president ramping up the United States' role in the fight against ISIS. Yes, American troops will now be in Syria.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. President Obama announcing just hours ago that he's dispatching hundreds of additional troops to Syria to ramp up pressure on ISIS, a big increase in the number of American boots on the ground there.

Let's more now from Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr. Good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. A very significant development in the U.S. military effort against ISIS, the president now announcing 250 additional special forces will go to Syria, 50 are on the ground already raising the question, is this now ground combat? The president says, no. Listen to how he laid it all --