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New Surveillance Video Released From Deadly Arrest; 1,457 Dead After 7.8 Earthquake Rattles Nepal; Bruce Jenner Says He is a Woman; More Questions About Reporting by Brian Williams; Nepal Earthquake Discussed; James Homes Trial Preview. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired April 25, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I spoke with CNN's Ravi Agrawal from Calcutta, India, not far from Nepal, and I asked him about the rescue and recovery operations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAVI AGRAWAL, CNN INDIA BUREAU CHIEF (via telephone): As I speak, rescue operations are under way in Kathmandu and other parts of Nepal. This is an extremely difficult operation because, on the one hand, you have in Kathmandu, which is a very sort of cramped, densely populated city, of many buildings have collapsed, people are still trapped under the rubble.

It is nightfall now. It is also raining. It is extremely difficult to reach people, who may still be trapped. On the other hand, you have situations where in rural Nepal, mountainous, very heavy, people, you know, a lot of damage there as well. So authorities are really struggling to reach people on both ends here, a major crisis for Nepal.

WHITFIELD: OK, and Ravi, on a good day, it is difficult to get to that region, now we are talking about the kind of assistance on a very huge scale that will be needed. Can you give us an idea of what kind of obstacles are in the way for rescue teams to get into this region and by what means would they be able to get there?

AGRAWAL: Well, this is incredibly hard to begin with, on a good day, if you point out. So again, in Kathmandu itself, you know, just to put this in context for our viewers, I mean, this part of the world, infrastructure tends to be very, very weak, you know. Roads aren't as wide.

There isn't a robust emergency response system. The police system, ambulance system, health care system, none of these systems are, you know, what you would imagine them to be in the west, while it's very different here in this part of the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, right now, I want to go to Sumnima Udas, who is in New Delhi for us. So what do you know about what kind of recovery or rescue efforts will be launched?

SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The latest, Fredricka, relief planes from India have land in Kathmandu, relief planes with mobile clinics inside, food, water, that's what the Nepali government requested to the prime minister of India.

Right now, it's unclear what the scale of this is really because the numbers that we're getting are mainly coming from Kathmandu, Kathmandu Valley, and the area around it.

But the epicenter, which is quite a distance from Kathmandu, we still haven't heard from that area in terms of how many people could have died what the situation is. It's near on the range, which is the Himalaya's second most popular trekking destination for a lot of tourists and also for Nepalese as well.

We really don't know how big this is going to be. In Kathmandu, major, historical sites have collapsed. These are, you know, equivalent of the Eiffel Tower in Paris, for instance, a tower from the 18th Century, with panoramic views of Kathmandu, really an iconic building for Nepal, that's completely collapsed.

Historical palaces, these are sites millions and millions of tourists would go to visit in Nepal and those are completely down. In terms of death toll, it's expected to rise, unfortunately, quite a bit. The death toll that we're getting is from all over Nepal.

But again, the information that the authorities are getting is -- they're saying it's very difficult to get a good sense of exactly what's going on in the ground right now.

WHITFIELD: Right. It's going to be a painstaking process, thank you so much, Sumnima Udas, coming from New Delhi.

All right, back here on U.S. soil now, new video just released by the Baltimore Police Department giving us another look at the moments before, during, and after Freddie Gray's arrest.

The video comes from some of the city's surveillance cameras. Police say it will help, as they try to piece together a time line of exactly what happened. They now admit that officers made inexcusable mistakes in the arrest of Gray, who died days after he was taken into custody.

All this, as protesters are still demanding answers. They're vowing to shut down the city in a massive rally. CNN's Joe Johns is in Baltimore for us -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fred. We are in the park that is very close to city hall here, where this demonstration, as expected, to end up later today probably around 5:00 Eastern Time, if the schedule holds, we're already seeing pretty sizable police presence.

I wanted to point out, we see police officers gathered around this park and up and down the streets. It looks look a very secure place at this hour here in the Baltimore area. [12:05:06] Meanwhile, as you said, the concern here in the city right now is about those surveillance tapes that were released last night by the police.

There are hundreds of cameras around this city and now starting to get an idea of what some of the cameras picked up the day Freddie Gray was taken into custody.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): New video from Baltimore police showing different angles on the arrest and transportation of Freddie Gray, the camera views released on the police department's YouTube page.

COMMISSIONER ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE: The video footage of every CCTV camera that may have caught even a single moment of the incident is under review.

JOHNS: One clip shows Gray interacting with police. Minutes later, the same camera shows the arrest scene with the police transport van. From another camera, a police van is seen stopped and another prisoner loaded. The footage is from hundreds of surveillance cameras in the area, as police try to piece together the video timeline.

BATTS: We're refining our investigation and we're getting closer and the picture is getting sharper and sharper as we move forward.

JOHNS: But the surveillance video released is not as sharp as the video that was shot by eyewitnesses on April 12th showing Gray's arrest. Less than an hour after he was detained officers transporting him called for a medic. Gray subsequently slipped into a coma, dying a week after his initial arrest. The surveillance video comes as police admit mistakes were made.

BATTS: We know he was not buckled in the transportation wagon, as he should have been. No excuses for that, period. We know our police employees failed to get him medical attention in a timely manner multiple times.

JOHNS: And in the strongest language yet, Baltimore police is talking about possible charges against officers for the death of the 25-year- old.

BATTS: If someone harmed Freddie Gray, we are going to have to prosecute them. So, giving too much information out to you on the front here now may jeopardize that prosecution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: So the investigation continues and there are concerns here in the city about the size of the crowd for the demonstration this afternoon, whether it will be peaceful, whether the traffic will be blocked or whether protesters will try to shut down the city.

I have to say that, on balance, throughout the week, there have been a few sporadic incidents. For the most part, it's been peaceful and hope here that it will stay that way.

WHITFIELD: All right, indeed. Thank you so much, Joe Johns. We'll check back with you.

All right, meantime, more on our breaking news. That volcano in Nepal, CNN has learned now, that the death toll stands at 1,457. But, of course, the efforts are under way to try to rescue the hundreds that have been impacted by this earthquake.

Right now, I'm joined on the phone by American freelance journalist, Thomas Nybo, who is on the ground there in Kathmandu. So Thomas, tell me about the rescue efforts that you have witnessed there.

THOMAS NYBO, AMERICAN FREELANCE JOURNALIST (via telephone): It's remarkable. I was in a coffee shop when the earthquake hit, and there was very little structural damage where I was. A lot of fallen power lines.

But as I made my way back to the hotel a half mile away, a seven-story hotel/restaurant that had collapsed, and I went in and approached it, and asked a few of the local women if they were OK.

One of the women mentioned two of her children were trapped inside. We checked it out, went around the building, there was no sign of them. There is not a chance they survived.

In the historic area where local women gather to get water and do their family's laundry, seven-story hotel collapsed into this pit, and there was a cement wall and under that wall were three people trapped.

And a group of remarkable tourists there, one from Italy, one from Ireland, another from the United States, and they were kind of panicked. We don't know what to do. There was no emergency response for a couple of hours where we were.

And so joining some of the locals, they got anything they could, some old pickaxes, hacksaws, metal rods from buildings that had fallen and they started hammering a hole above the man, one man who survived, hammering a hole in the concrete and finally broke it wide enough, maybe 2-1/2, 3 feet across, after cutting it through with rebar.

At that time the Nepalese army showed up. There about 20 or 30 soldiers and they went in and climbed into the hole and after a lot of maneuvering and removal of ruble, were able to pull him out alive. The other two didn't make it.

[12:10:01] WHITFIELD: You're kidding, my gosh, this is unbelievable. So now you and just anybody who is eyewitness to this have been jumping in to try to help and rescue people. In your view, as rescue teams make their way there, what are they going to need?

Paint a picture, you did a brilliant job just now of painting a picture of that particular rescue, give us an idea of what these rescue teams, emergency teams, are going to see and encounter once they get there. NYBO: It's really important that people understand that this particular area of Kathmandu, it's the tourist's center, and it's the busy season right now, it's the trekking season. There are literally tens of thousands of tourists staying in these hotels.

Not only that, the streets are quite narrow, many of the buildings and the hotels are quite tall. So there isn't much room to navigate. What you have gathered outside the hotels, restaurants, in the middle of the streets are tens of thousands of people terrified to return to their hotels.

Power's out in most areas, there's no internet. Phone service is quite spotty. The stores have all shuttered their doors and windows, so it's tough to get basic supplies. Throw on top of that collapse buildings, collapsed walls.

In many areas the streets, huge crevasses have opened up, making it impossible for emergency vehicles to pass. So from a purely logistical standpoint even being able to properly evaluate the extent of the damage is almost impossible.

WHITFIELD: My gosh, and, so Thomas, you're a freelance journalist, but have you been living, working there or what brought you to this area?

NYBO: I'm currently working with UNICEF, their regional office for South Asia is based in Kathmandu. I'm in the office right now, one of the few places with electricity and internet.

And I spend a lot of time working in the region, Afghanistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, India, and I was here in the region producing a short film on child brides in Bangladesh, and that's what I was doing in Kathmandu.

WHITFIELD: So then now where are you? You're in that office right now, sounds like a safe spot for you. But where are you going to go? What are you going to do? Because I imagine you have some of the same worries as anybody else there, worried about the buildings that are still standing whether they will collapse, whether there is a safe place.

NYBO: There's no way I'm going to be able to sleep tonight, and I'm doing a lot of photography for "The New York Times." I got a lot of shots of this man as he emerged from the hole, and I haven't been out on the streets for a couple of hours. I was sending "The New York Times" the photos. I'm going to go out right now. It's 10:00 at night, and just see what the situation is, bring my camera.

WHITFIELD: So it's 10:00 at night, you mentioned there are people who are afraid to go into hotels, into buildings, what are you seeing? If you emerge right now or look out a window, walk outside the door, what are you seeing in terms of people, activity, how people are trying to you know locate or rescue others or looking for food themselves? What are they doing? What will you see?

NYBO: Going to the most popular hotels because there are generators in the hotels so they're congregating in established areas and safe areas, and you really have kind of a bipolar situation in the sense it's entirely calm until there's a tremor.

There have been more than a dozen aftershocks. One of them was, I believe, 6.6 magnitude and that sends people into a panic, rightfully so. So it's really fraught with tension.

WHITFIELD: You're still feeling those aftershocks occasionally?

NYBO: It's about an hour and 15 minutes ago was last one that I felt. But they have been fairly regular. In fact, I was at the site of the rescue and there are about three, four Nepalese soldiers in the hole and there was a serious aftershock, and they were scrambling out to reach safety. Even these guys, soldiers, were terrified and afraid to go back in the hole, rightly so.

WHITFIELD: So Thomas, you're doing a beautiful job describing that happened after that initial, big quake. You have brilliantly painted a picture for us. If I could ask you, where were you at the time of the big quake? What did you experience and feel?

NYBO: I was in one of my favorite local coffee shops, a popular hangout, on the third or fourth floor, somewhere where you can go and get a delicious cup of coffee. It's Saturday afternoon, relaxing, I was doing editing on this film that I shot in Bangladesh.

And it was interesting because I think most viewers have experienced tremors at least once time in their life, and that's whether I thought it was when it started. It was pretty calm, nobody freaked out.

[12:15:09] But the intensity just went through the roof. The walls were shaking, televisions were crashing on to the floor, and the walls were shaking so much you couldn't even run out to the street.

So it lasted an entire minute, and by the time, I got out to the street, it was filled with tens of thousands of people who had come from surrounding businesses.

WHITFIELD: My gosh. And at that moment, were you worried what part of the ground might open up or how much were you worried about your personal safety?

NYBO: I felt pretty safe at that point. I was in the middle of the street, but I wanted to see what the situation was up near my hotel. So I quickly set off on foot and I mean, the adrenaline hasn't really gone down much since then.

That was about, I guess, about 10 hours ago, little more than that so you just kind of go with the flow. Once I arrived at hotel, the situation was much worse. There was the collapse at the other hotel which collapsed there were the two children who died in the rubble, and then this man who was trapped.

And I should say, within 10, 20 feet of this guy there were three or four women who also died. I think they must have been there before doing the laundry for the family, gathering water. It was a really tragic situation.

WHITFIELD: It is tragic. Thomas, I know you said you're not likely to sleep tonight, understandably. But where will you at least go as a safe place tonight? Will you return to your hotel? Will you stay right there in the office?

NYBO: I'm told the hotel is not a possibility. I actually stay up on the roof, on the fifth floor. They've shuttered the gate. So I'm going to go out with my camera. I have a deep connection to Kathmandu. I visited a dozen times. It's kind of my base in South Asia. And I'm just going to go wander the streets tonight with my camera.

WHITFIELD: Well, be careful. Be safe. We'll check in with you from time to time because your account is extraordinary. You've put us right there we're hoping the best for your safety and of course, the safety of others whose lives are certainly in peril this evening, your time. Thomas Nybo, thank you so much. Be safe.

NYBO: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, we appreciate it. We'll have much more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:43]

WHITFIELD: It's nightfall in Nepal but the desperate efforts are intensifying, trying to find survivors from a huge earthquake, 7.8- magnitude quake. CNN has now learned thus far, 1,457 people have died.

But of course through all of the ruble, collapsed buildings, a desperate search, now a worldwide effort, teams coming from all on the world, descending on Nepal, to try do get in there even with the airports closed and many of the roads impassable, to try to get in to find survivors. The U.S. is sending a rescue team. We'll have much more on what's taking place in Nepal as we get it.

Meantime, on to Baltimore now, we've been talking today about new video just released by the Baltimore Police Department, which gives another look at the moments before and during Freddie Gray's arrest.

The video is coming from some of the city's surveillance cameras. Police say it will help as they try to piece together a time line of what happened.

They now admit, officers made inexcusable mistakes in the arrest of Gray who died days after he was taken into custody. For more perspective on this case, I want to bring in Cheryl Dorsey, a retired LAPD sergeant. She served on the force 20 years and HLN legal analyst, Joey Jackson, who is in New York City. Good to see both of you.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Hello, Fred. Good afternoon. WHITFIELD: All right, so we are learning a little bit more by way of the city mayor and the city police commissioner and one conclusion, there were admitted mistakes, both saying the commissioner and the mayor, that mistakes were made by the officers in the arrest.

That Gray should have been buckled in that police van, for one, and that he was not given medical care, especially when requested. Cheryl, from what you heard, the commissioner outlying, now saying, 600 CCTV cameras that also will help fill in some of the blanks.

What is most concerning to you about the information that you've heard so far or maybe even the lack of information?

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD POLICE SERGEANT: Well, hello, Fredricka and Joey. Good to be back with you again. I'm troubled by a couple of things and I'm glad there are admitting problems after Mr. Gray was detained, but I have a problem with why he was detained to begin with.

There was no probable cause. There was no reasonable suspicion. I'm told earlier in the week, by the president of the Police Benevolent Officers Association, that Mr. Gray was suspicious in a high crime area.

I guess that would mean that any black man, who is out could be stopped, chased, and have their spines severed. So I'm glad they're admitting there's wrong doing after the stop.

But also what's troubling is there was a lieutenant and sergeant of police on the scene, among those six officers, and neither of the lieutenant nor the sergeant had the wherewithal to step in and say, that's enough, no more, let's get help.

WHITFIELD: So Cheryl, to your point about being able to arrest, detain, pursue Freddie Gray, because he was suspicious, there is this federal allowance that in certain high crime areas throughout the country that police are able to pursue someone based on their suspicious, but there doesn't have to be probable cause.

So as an LAPD officer yourself, Los Angeles, has plenty of high crime areas. Was that a condition that was ever used as far as you know to lead to someone's arrest?

There may not have been probable cause, but because in a high crime area, which was exactly the message being sent by these police officers, they were still able to pursue someone?

DORSEY: Well, you know, we hear that all the time, but officers need to be able to articulate what that suspicious activity is because just being in a high crime area and being a black man does not therefore make you suspicious because if that were the case, then you should never leave the house.

So unless there's some type of criminal activity that you can articulate that this individual is directly involved in or is reasonably believed to be involved in, you don't get to chase them down and just running is not reasonable. WHITFIELD: So, Joey, you know, a lot is being revealed in this case alone. There's more than a race problem, a relationship problem between police and community. There's a policy problem. There are law problems.

[12:25:10] There are a lot that is being magnified here. But what can be addressed, if anything, first in some of the questions that the police commissioner, maybe even mayor, any number of these six officers, they must address first?

JACKSON: Well, Fredricka, first of all, you have to address the growing distrust between the police department and the community. That's where it stems. It has to be a relationship that's predicated upon mutual trust and mutual respect.

When you look back and you evaluate and you find out that one in six people in Baltimore were being arrested under Mayor O'Malley, certainly in anybody's engaging in criminality, nobody deserves a free pass.

But when that many members of the community are arrested you have to wonder what's go on there, and does it lead to other problems such as distrust, et cetera?

And so in working with the clergy, the community, whether it's the faith leadership of the clergy, whether it's the schools, whether it's, you know, community organizations there has to be some coming together.

Because the reality is, is that you know, the community depends upon the police, the police in turn depend upon the community to solve crime. So unless that relationship is cooperative, it becomes problematic moving forward.

WHITFIELD: OK, and some of these things can be explored simultaneous to this investigation, others are long term, something to work on.

Cheryl, if I can get a last comment from you before we wrap up. The family now about to conduct its own kind of forensic pathology autopsy after the city or county has already done so, how much do you worry this body has been compromised in order to get an accurate assessment of exactly how and what point was he killed?

DORSEY: Well, you know, I would certainly hope that the body's not been compromised. Of course, we need an independent reviewer, someone other than the police department to come to some kind of conclusion in terms of how Mr. Gray died.

So I'm going to trust and pray that the family's representative will be able to do that quickly and have some answers for them, something that will bring them some comfort and peace.

WHITFIELD: All right, Cheryl Dorsey, Joey Jackson, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

JACKSON: Thanks, Fredricka. WHITFIELD: We'll have much more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:31:12]

WHITFIELD: All right, he first put on a dress when he was 8 years old. This was just one of the many, many big reveals from Bruce Jenner's interview with ABC's Diane Sawyer last night. As speculated, the Olympian and reality star announced that he will be transitioning from male to female.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUCE JENNER, OLYMPIAN GOLD MEDALIST: I'm me. I'm me. I'm a person and this who is I am. I'm not stuck in anybody's body. It's just who I am, as a human being. My brain is much more female than it is male. It's hard for people to understand that, but that's what my soul is.

I look at it this way, Bruce, always telling a lie. He's lived a lie his whole life about who he is. And I can do that any longer. So can I take my ponytail out? Yes, why not? We're talking about all of this stuff. Yes, let's take the damn ponytail out.

DIANE SAWYER, ABC: But you understand that people are baffled, confounded. People who are just --

JENNER: My god, that -- is he gay?

SAWYER: Yes. Are you gay?

JENNER: No, I'm not gay. I'm not gay. I'm as far as I know heterosexual.

SAWYER: You don't know. What do you mean as far as you know?

JENNER: As far as I know, I've never been with a guy. I've always been married, raising kids.

SAWYER: Right, and you can desire a woman every bit as much?

JENNER: Yes.

SAWYER: If you were a male and you become female but you like women, are you a lesbian? Are you a heterosexual who --

JENNER: You're going back to the sex thing and apples and oranges. There are two different things here. Sexuality is who you are personally attracted to, who you, you know, turns you on, male or female. But gender identity is how to do it with who you are as a person and your soul and who you identify with inside.

SAWYER: If you marry again, do you see it with a woman? Is that what you visualize?

JENNER: I'm so far down the road. It's like the last thing in the world --

SAWYER: You can't, you can't --

JENNER: I can't figure that side of it out. I just want to have a free soul and have a lot of great friends. I'm 65, it's not like you want to go out and get it on all the time. I just want to enjoy life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, joining me now to talk more about this, CNN media correspondent, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter. So Brian, I mean, it was riveting, just simply, and I think very revealing and people learned a lot. So how many people indeed were tuned in last night?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it was educational. It wasn't exploitative as some people feared and almost 17 million viewers watched last night, which is, just to put that in perspective, one of the highest-rated news programs in the United States all year.

I think it's actually number two. One episode of "60 Minutes" that was higher. This is essentially the biggest interview of the year, many more viewers than ever watching on a Friday night. Of course, it is dominating conversations today.

I think what's really striking. Obviously it's a ground breaking moment for the transgender community and for transgender acceptance.

There is negatively online, there is no doubt about that, but the dominant reaction today is love, love and affection for Bruce Jenner.

WHITFIELD: Wow, and he was frank and candid. When you talk about love, not just for him, but to see four of his biological kids sit down and talk, you know, really in concert about how much they admired him as an Olympian and how they felt like this was the biggest, most courageous thing he's ever done.

[12:35:02] But then at the same time, there was the omission of the Kardashian side of the family that they were not part of that. I wonder if that resonated just as much, if not more so, than the family members who were willing to reveal themselves and express themselves firsthand.

STELTER: Well, I do think we're trained to be cynical about reality TV. My cynical eye would say that we will hear more from the Kardashian stepdaughters and daughters in the days, weeks and months to come.

We now know that Bruce Jenner will be starting in an E! reality show this July all about his new life as he transitions and we'll start using the word "she" at some point to describe Bruce Jenner. I have a feeling we'll see the daughters, the stepdaughters more there.

We did see them tweet on Facebook last night, expressing support, pride in their father. As we know, Kim Kardashian, doing a big interview on NBC on Monday so we will hear more from Kim Kardashian at that point.

WHITFIELD: Yes, OK, and I know their name kind of steals headlines a lot. I think it was very resonating and it was very impactful when Bruce Jenner said, all of this time, all of these episodes, 400- something episodes and I was the one with the real story.

STELTER: With the real story. And also to hear from the family, hear the support, not every transgender person, especially young people who feel these -- that they want to transition that they want to make this change, they don't always feel that support.

That's what we're hearing from the community today, from advocates today, that is hopefully this is going to save lives. It's a dramatic thing to say, but I think that's very true, actually.

WHITFIELD: Now let's talk about another very real story and we're talking about Brian Williams and how "the stories" and some alleging they weren't completely real but now something very real, a reality check, your own reporting has discovered an internal NBC investigation has turned up at least ten instances so far in which Brian Williams embellished details of reporting, not going away.

The investigation followed Williams February apology for claiming a helicopter he was in during the Iraq war was hit by rocket fire, NBC suspended him for six months without pay.

And now there's an investigation about all of the other stories and whether he's deserving of being put back on the air, in the seat of "Nightly News" so what more are you hearing about all of this?

STELTER: It's just breaking today, Fredricka, and it's interesting because it's been quiet for a long time about Brian Williams, people are wondering when NBC's going to make an announcement because he's under the six-month suspension.

It goes on another three months but it's increasingly untenable for NBC not to be commenting. And what "The New York Times" and "The Washington Post" reported last night was, as you said, there's a number of examples of embellishments that haven't been made publicly known but found by NBC.

My sources are telling me the same thing, at least ten instances of exaggerations found. The most important detail, head of all NBC universal had a meeting on Thursday where he learned about this, he heard about these findings.

That suggests to me that NBC might be nearing a decision about what to do in this very difficult case. It's in some ways a no-win situation for NBC, but this is something that does seem to be coming to a head as these newspaper reports indicate.

WHITFIELD: Brian, it's been difficult, but even more so now because the chairman of NBC --

STELTER: Yes, brand-new boss. WHITFIELD: Right. He was the one who kind of anointed, you know, Brian Williams, he's the one who said, this is going to be the heir apparent for Tom Brokaw, and now it's happened.

But then now he's not in that chair and it's Andy Lack, who ultimately is going to make that decision about whether to bring him back. It's very complicated in many ways.

STELTER: Yes, so talk about these professional dramas, but they're ultimately personal dramas, personal relationships. Brian Williams has fans at NBC, a close relationship with his new boss, Andy Lack, but he also has a lot of detractors.

A lot of people want to see Lester Holt, who has been filling in quite capably actually keeping that job. They don't think Brian Williams' credibility can be restored and they believe he has to step aside.

It seems to me like NBC is coming to a decision soon and maybe this is leaking out in the "New York Times" and "The Washington Post" because of that. That's just my guess. I've seen it happen before in the TV news business.

WHITFIELD: Yes, it's very complicated. All right, Brian Stelter, good to see you. Thanks so much. We'll have much more from the NEWSROOM after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:42:33]

WHITFIELD: All right, continuing our coverage of breaking news out of Nepal, more than 1,400 people have been killed after a 7.8 magnitude earthquake rock the country. The United Nations says nearly 40 percent of the country has been impacted.

And that a major relief effort is required and there are calls for international assistance, of course, the U.S. deploying a team as well.

CNN military analyst, Retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling joins us from New York and a former Navy SEAL, Jonathan Gilliam, joining us by Skype from Orlando. Good to see both of you.

General, you first, you were part of a rescue effort in the Pakistan earthquake in 2005, at least 86,000 people killed. In cases like this, so massive, difficult to rein, to traverse, how do you get to the injured when so much of the infrastructure, roadways impassable and airports in the case of Nepal, are closed?

LT. GENERAL MARK HERTLING (RETIRED), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Interesting, Fred, because in 2005, I just returned from combat in Iraq and we had -- I became the operations officer for Europe when Pakistani earthquake in that year happened.

As you said, tens of thousands of people died. You have to send a team in into conduct analysis of exactly what is needed. In that case, we realized most of the damage was at high altitudes, couldn't reach them by normal helicopters.

We had to not only send in a surgical team of a couple of thousand soldiers from our 12th combat surgical hospital, but another team of CH-47 helicopters that could reach the high altitudes.

I think you're going to see some of the same things occurring in Nepal. You know, it's a landlocked country. They have the Himalayas to the north, the forest to the south. The roads connecting Kathmandu with smaller cities are all difficult to transverse.

This is the worst kind of environment to conduct a relief operation in and we've already seen casualty figures jump from a few hundred, now I guess it's over 1,500 now and I think that's going to continue to grow -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Jonathan, we heard from a U.N. representative earlier who said helicopters are probably going to be used in this case, but there are no assurances there. What are life-saving tactics that you're familiar with that might be employed while people are waiting for the help of big, you know, earth movers that could eventually come to the area?

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Well, Fred, as the general will tell you, the biggest life-saving thing that you can have in an environment like this is actually throttling back and planning as you go forward.

[12:45:10] Because if you just throw all of your resources in there and you exhaust your people, it's going to only take about a day and the recovery is going to break down.

So, the greatest thing that they can do right now is actually pause for a moment. Try as much as they can to organize, make sure they stay hydrated while they search and do a systemic search.

You have to have grids. You have to know where you search so you don't waste time and search again until you've cleared certain areas.

WHITFIELD: And of course, General, we are talking about a place that's hard to get do on a good day and now you've got this, but then time is of the essence if you've got people who are trap under debris and rubble.

I mean, is this a case where a lot of the rescuers are really just hoping that they, you know, there are blessings because the obstacles are abundant?

HERTLING: Well, exactly. And what you're going to see, first of all, the construction techniques in a country like this are not very good, Fred. You know, you're talking about ten huts and bricks that are just laid without any kind of reinforcement to them.

You've seen photos where all of the walls are tumbling down, ceilings crashing down, trapping people underneath. One of the things we found -- and I'll agree the key issue is to step back because this is probably going to take much longer than we anticipate. When we did the Pakistani relief we thought our soldiers were going to be there a month. They ended up being there about nine months. It's really tough. Our son is also a soldier, in Kathmandu last year and stayed in the city while he took a bunch of cadets from West Point on an engagement visit there.

They had a conversation with the ambassador at the time. One of the cadets asked a question regarding Mr. Obama's pivot to the Pacific, the answer by the ambassador was we're interested in that.

But the most important thing here in Nepal is the next humanitarian relief effort we're going to have to conduct and we've got to build relationships. This shows all of that (inaudible) on his part.

WHITFIELD: All right, General Mark Hertling, Navy SEAL Jonathan Gilliam, thank you so much. We're all hoping and wishing the best for all of those involved in trying to find survivors.

All right, coming up in the NEWSROOM, the man accused of going on a shooting spree in a Colorado movie theater is about to go on trial. Our legal guys tell us what they expect, next.

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[12:50:00]

WHITFIELD: This Monday, James Holmes goes on trial for shooting rampage that killed 12 people and wounded 70 more in an Aurora, Colorado, movie theater. He attacked the place in July of 2012, you'll remember during a midnight premier of "The Dark Knight Rises."

Holmes has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. His attorneys say he was quote, "in the throes of a psychotic episode" at the time of the shooting. Prosecutors argue that he was sane, and they're pushing for the death penalty in this case.

Let's bring in our legal guys, Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor joining us from Cleveland. Good to see you.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor joining us from Fort Lauderdale today. Good to see you as well.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, you, guys, so a big part of this case will be decided by what James Holmes' mental state was. We don't have a lot of details about what experts have found so will this become a case of, you know, who's expert is more believable, Richard?

HERMAN: Yes, Fred, it'll absolutely be a battle of the experts. We have to put aside our anger and our disgust in what happened here, understand in the legal system, we punish people based on their state of mind. What were they thinking at the time they committed the crime. Could they form the extent to kill, for instance in a murder case such as this one?

It'll surround whether or not he was having such an episode that he could not form the requisite intent to commit murder and or did he not nose that what he was doing was wrong? That's what the defense is going to try to do.

It's up, you talk about Mt. Everest. You talk about a hurdle here. You look at deliberation and intent, and the amount of planning that went into this, and the actual execution, very, very bad --

WHITFIELD: But we're talking about really examining, Avery, all the things that led up to his actions before the shooting. You know, he began stockpiling weapons in May, apparently. He took photos of the movie theater the month before the shooting, and he --

FRIEDMAN: He cased the joint.

WHITFIELD: And bought tickets weeks in advance. At the same time, he's pleading not guilty by reason of insanity, and attorneys say there was some psychotic episode. When you look at all of the planning leading up to, does it not sound like he had the wherewithal about his abilities, intent, all of those things. Might it be difficult for his defense?

FRIEDMAN: Well, I mean, it drips in premeditation, not only you have the purchases you say of the arms, ammunition, casing the joint, he actually booby trapped his apartment knowing the police would go there and killed or injured after the incident.

The argument here on the insanity plea is it's essentially a psychotic moment. You can piece together over three months of psychotic episodes. I can't understand how the defense could possibly achieve that result.

Now remember, there are going to be five experts, Fredricka, two for the prosecution, one for the defense, and two independent experts, psychiatrists, testifying, engaged by the court.

And studies show that ordinarily, injuries will look to the independent studies, but you said earlier, we have no idea what they're going to say. And that's where this case turns.

WHITFIELD: All right. All starts Monday, Avery, Richard, thank you so much. Of course, you know, I think some people may have forgotten about the painstaking process of the booby trapping of the apartment. That plays a significant role in all of this. Appreciate you guys. See you next weekend.

This programming note, Hollywood is hot for the White House Correspondent's Dinner, and that would be tonight. CNN will be there from the red carpet at that main event. Jokes from SNL's Sicily Strong and President Barack Obama. CNN's live coverage starting here tonight, 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:58:05]

WHITFIELD: All right, we're covering two big natural disasters today. Devastating earthquake in Nepal just moments away, but first, let's head to Southern Chile. That's where the Calbuco Volcano near the tourist destination has erupted twice already, spewing ash for miles, thousands have had to flee their homes.

CNN's Shasta Darlington is in Chile where you are surrounded by that ash.

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Fred. This is one of the first towns that were evacuated. More than 4,400 people were evacuated total. But some people had been let back in so that they can prepare, not only for the possibility of a third eruption, but also for rain.

If you look right over here, we have bulldozers cleaning away the ash. Emergency workers, and the idea is to get it the off the roofs, to get it off the streets, and that's because this ash is incredibly heavy.

You'll see this huge truck passing by right now. This is like gravel or cement. It's really important to clear that out before we have the possibility of another eruption. I should mention also, they're coming in to get out their animals.

This is a very rural area, and so they've been coming back in to get, to get out their cows, their horses, their sheep. They've even been bringing in trucks to get the salmon out of the rivers. Three trucks passed by right now.

These people want to the make sure they have something to come back once the volcano calms down. So they're getting out their animals, cleaning out their houses and preparing for the worst -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Shasta Darlington, thank you so much. Appreciate that. We have so much more straight ahead in the NEWSROOM, and it all starts right now.