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George W. Bush Criticizes President Obama; Unrest in Baltimore; Thousands Dead in Nepal Earthquake. Aired 15-15:30p ET

Aired April 27, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

KIMBERLY REED, TRANSGENDER WOMAN: It's going to be OK. One of the things that Bruce said in the interview was, you know, let's keep a sense of humor about this. And I think that that's also really important to keep in mind.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: He did.

I wanted to ask you, because you talked about a couple of different things. One, I don't know if this is the case still today, but you don't really like to go look at the pictures of you as Paul. Right?

And you started making the transition much sooner than -- he's 65. Granted, he talks about taking hormones in the '80s. But what's it like living -- and forgive me if this isn't even the right way of saying, but sort of the in-between? Does that make sense?

REED: It does. Yes. And the curiosity is great.

And I'm glad you're asking questions where you maybe not even know if it's awkward or not. And it's OK.

BALDWIN: OK.

REED: I think that what this is all about is for all of us to have this national conversation.

I mean, that's the wonderful thing about Jenner doing what Jenner is doing, is, it's giving us a chance to discuss all of this.

BALDWIN: What was that like for you a little?

REED: For me, it was -- it made me crazy. When I was going to -- in college and like around film school, I remember I had graduated from film school, and I was trying to start up a freelance career as male, but also as female at the same time.

BALDWIN: How do you that?

REED: You come home at lunch and change and hope that your eye makeup remover works pretty good is what you do. But, yes, it makes you nuts. And you can only handle it so long. What Bruce said about just, I can't pull the curtain anymore, I just can't do it any more, that sort of exhaustion is something that I certainly felt. We're all on a different schedule. Some of us do it really young.

Some of us, it takes a while. I didn't have as many -- I didn't have a family, I didn't have a spouse at the time, I didn't have some of the things that might really complicate that decision and make it even more difficult. But, you know, we're all just trying to live our own truth.

BALDWIN: I appreciate you coming on and sharing your truth with us. I wish I had more time with you, Kimberly Reed.

Watch the documentary. It's called "Prodigal Sons."

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

And we continue, hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We begin this hour in Nepal. Nearly 4,000 are dead, including at least four Americans, this massive earthquake leveling villages, bringing down buildings and shifting the capital, of Kathmandu, shifting the city 10 feet in a matter of 30 seconds, this quake rocking the tallest mountain on earth, Mount Everest, a terrified climber capturing the moment a wall of snow slams into Everest camp.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, whoa. Whoa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on to my jacket. Hold on to my jacket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Many on the mountain are still missing and we know at least 17 climbers did not survive, among them, four Americans.

In fact, just last hour, I talked to an American climber who has actually summited Everest already, a doctor, who spoke to me from base camp about 18,000 feet at altitude and he's there helping those who are injured.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JON KEDROWSKI, HELPING INJURED: This wasn't your traditional avalanche, because the earthquake triggered like a giant icefall coming down and then that icefall actually collided with a land mass adjacent to the glacier and to the base camp.

And so it wasn't like snow burying people. It was more like this air- compressed blast that came across. And so the injuries are more something that you might see out of the Midwest when you have like a tornado or even like hurricane-force winds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Back in Kathmandu, hope, hope some 48 hours after the quake. This little boy is found alive underneath a building that crumbled on top of him here and a man pulled out to cheers of rescuers.

But with so many remote villages just absolutely unreachable, including the epicenter here of this quake, the number of victims is expected to soar. Nepal, already one of the poorest nations in the world, is overflowing with the injured. In hospitals, medical supplies are dwindling.

Joining me now from one of those hospitals is our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

[15:05:02]

And, Sanjay, I know this morning you stepped in and actually performed brain surgery on a young earthquake survivor. Can you tell me about that?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

You know, first of all, these situations, Brooke, as you well know, it can be chaotic. You have a tremendous demand for resources, for care, and tremendous supply of patients. Patients -- this is an influx of them. What we know is that right after the earthquake, not unexpectedly, there were a lot of patients who came to three of the biggest hospitals in Kathmandu.

What the doctors tell me, that there was a little bit of a lull after that. And they thought maybe the worst was over at that point. But in fact we now know that that's when the rescue missions were going further and further out from the city center and then bringing people back to the city, which is what we saw today, a sudden new influx of patients.

At times, Brooke, they just say we need another set of hands, literally. Please help because there's so many patients and they need to be cared for. They have been doing operations almost nonstop at this one hospital since the earthquake occurred.

You get an idea of what the demand was. This particular girl, she is 8 years old. Her name is Salina (ph). She was injured in the earthquake like so many others. She was outside her home collecting water. The house tumbled to the ground. And she was injured. She had pieces of rubble that hit her in the head and caused a brain injury.

When she was brought to the hospital at the time, they didn't know whether -- the whereabouts of her parents and it was very sad, very chaotic. We now know some good news. She's doing well, first of all, after her operation and they were also able to find her parents. They were with her little brother, who also broke his legs during this earthquake. But that's just a glimpse of the reality, Brooke, for so many people

right now.

BALDWIN: Sanjay Gupta.

There's so much more of Sanjay's reporting. Just go to CNN.com.

Sanjay Gupta, phenomenal work you're doing there. Thank you for so much taking the time.

The landscape of Nepal really is forever changed. The before, the afterimages show just a slice of what this massive 7.8 earthquake did to this country. They are just another example of how difficult it is to find people in the chaos of this post-quake chaos.

Last hour, I spoke with Brooks Emanuel, whose father, Martin, is missing somewhere around Mount Everest in a park. I asked him what it's like not knowing where his dad is and if he's OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS EMANUEL, FATHER IS MISSING: It's very trying. But it also is a reason to be optimistic, because we know it's going to be impossible to get communications out. We're very optimistic.

BALDWIN: Maybe the no news is good news piece.

EMANUEL: Yes. People -- we are -- news of people who have been unaccounted for is trickling in. We haven't heard about my dad or Dilli yet.

But we're optimistic that Dilli may have decided that once things started to hunker down and maybe wait a few days. At the same time, we're away that there are some dangers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We have got Nick Valencia. He's outside in Decatur, Georgia, outside of Martin Emanuel's home.

And just talk to his son, he was explaining to me that he and the mother were in Nepal not too long ago and did some trekking. And it was the father who say, hey, I want to go back and I want to go back with this guide.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They were there just two years ago. In fact, he was with the same guide they used on that trip they took two years ago.

I spoke to Ben Emanuel, whose father, 71-year-old Marty Emanuel, is an American still unaccounted for after the earthquake in Nepal. They say he was expected to be out there for about six to eight weeks on a trek across the country, but they haven't heard from him since the earthquake hit. They say they are worried, but are remaining hopeful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BEN EMANUEL, FATHER IS MISSING: We're worried, obviously. How can you not be? But the biggest challenge is communication and not hearing anything.

And we realized at the very start when we heard news about the quake that we might not hear anything for a week or two weeks just because of the nature of the country out where he is. It's hard not knowing. I wouldn't say no news is good news, but this is a situation where no news is not necessarily bad news, if you know what I mean.

VALENCIA: Tell me about your father. What kind of guy is he?

EMANUEL: He's a great guy. Everybody loves him. He taught his whole career at the Atlanta College of Art here in Atlanta and has many connections through that. I meet people all the time who had a close connection with him through his teaching career. And he's always been doing outdoor adventures like this one his whole life since we were kids and even before.

We were proud of him that he was going on this trip.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: To keep spirits high during this very difficult and worrisome time, Ben told me that the running joke in the family right now is that the father has been too busy to callback home because he's busy helping others out -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: We hope so. Nick Valencia, thank you.

These stories of the missing, each desperate and difficult to hear.

Tony Sukla (ph) is an American missionary who lives in India and his family said he was headed for Everest, but they haven't heard from him now in two weeks.

[15:10:03]

His sister, Tracy Buck, joins me from Dallas.

Tracy, any news?

TRACY BUCK, BROTHER IS MISSING: No news as of yet.

BALDWIN: You were in touch with some people though who were on the ground with him or working with him. How are they working to get word -- I understand Google people finder is pretty helpful.

BUCK: Yes, ma'am.

I went and put a profile on there. And then I noticed that some of his friends from the school had put it on there too. And then also I have been checking his Facebook and I saw that they are sending pictures to I guess the police station over there to get any information, but as of yet no one has any information.

BALDWIN: When is the last time you talked to him?

BUCK: I spoke with him on Monday, April the 13th, when he was headed out for his trek.

BALDWIN: Where was he headed? How long has he been over there?

BUCK: He's been over there about 11 years now. He built a school over there, where he's teaching the little kids English and then he also teaches them biblical principles.

There's a group over here that funds over here for him to help the kids and teach them.

BALDWIN: He's helping kids. He sounds like he loved this community to be over there for more than a decade.

Can you talk a little bit about that? What is it about this part of the world in which he really felt, I don't know, gravitated towards?

BUCK: He said that he went and he visited it one time and that the people captured his heart and he wanted them to know -- he calls God Yahweh, and so he wanted them to like -- he's also translating a Bible over there. So, he just -- he loves people and he loves helping them.

BALDWIN: And he was en route to Everest?

BUCK: Yes, ma'am. He goes -- I know he had been in 2001 and then he had told me he was going to go again. And also I found out after the earthquake that he actually has a student from the school with him.

So -- and I would think that if anything then he would have tried to get back in hold of his school to let the parents know there that he was OK, but as of now there's just no information out there.

BALDWIN: We're holding out hope for all these different stories, including your brother. Tracy Buck, thank you so much. My thoughts really, truly with you and your family right now.

BUCK: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I can't imagine what it's like not knowing.

Let's move from this top story and next the city on edge, Baltimore, Maryland, and in mourning today. These are pictures from the funeral of Freddie Gray laid to rest late this morning, early this afternoon after this weekend of protests. Some of it turned quite violent. Today, now we're hearing from Baltimore police saying they now are being threatened. We will have a former Baltimore officer joining me live next.

Plus, for the first time, President Bush is criticizing President Obama -- what he said coming up.

Plus, we're following so many stories out of Nepal, the people who did survive now trying to find any food and water they can. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:24]

BALDWIN: President George W. Bush has said repeatedly he would not criticize his successor, President Barack Obama. Dick Cheney of course has been scathing in his criticism, but not a peep from the former president.

Now, however, a published report says that over the weekend President Bush unloaded on President Obama's foreign policy at this private Republican event in Las Vegas. He reportedly said President Obama has placed the U.S. -- quote -- "in retreat around the world."

And he was especially critical of what he sees as President Obama's failure to back up his rhetoric, according to Bloomberg View columnist and CNN analyst Josh Rogin, who says he had a source in this room that George W. Bush said that when it comes to fighting -- quote -- "In order to be an effective president, when you say something, you have to mean it," he said. "You got to kill them."

And that's not all he reportedly said.

Doug Brinkley, let me bring you in, presidential historian at Rice History.

Good to see you, sir.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: First of all, how unprecedented is it, period, to have a former president criticize a president, especially a sitting president?

BRINKLEY: It happens.

Jimmy Carter used to beat up on Ronald Reagan regularly and you can give many examples of it. But this was a very noticeable event in Las Vegas. George W. Bush has assiduously avoided finger-pointing or criticizing President Obama. Something changed at the meeting with Sheldon Adelson there in Vegas and it may be two factors.

One, about a week ago, Colin Powell at the Kennedy Center speaking for an M.D. Anderson fund-raiser, basically criticized George W. Bush his, old boss' Iraq and Afghanistan policy. And then on Saturday, President Obama maybe started the opening salvo of this feud by calling Bush a horrible, worst president of his lifetime in a joke, saying basically Dick Cheney ran the show.

A few hours later in Vegas, the president made these comments.

BALDWIN: So it's interesting you say that. You think this is all part of almost like ping-ponging of criticisms back and forth at one another, because listen, 2015, you have to know, President Bush has to know this may be a private event, but these days nothing is private, right?

BRINKLEY: You got it. Exactly. And there's nothing startling about what George W. Bush said. It was a neocon view of foreign policy.

But the very fact of the matter is that he took the gloves off and didn't just swipe at Obama one or two times, about three or four times, according to the Bloomberg story, which he basically is saying that al Qaeda is still alive, that ISIL is the new al Qaeda, and this president is making us weak.

[15:20:08]

I thought it was very strong words for George W. Bush and I will be curious to see how the White House responds to it, if they do.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Even if they touch it. Right?

But you say gloves off. Most people say absolutely this is criticism. It's the first in six years. Here's how Ari Fleischer puts it, Ari Fleischer, Bush's spokesperson back in the day.

So, CNN reached out to him. He told CNN that President Bush did not directly criticize President Obama. Ari Fleischer said, "Mr. Bush simply answered questions about how he would handle today's top foreign policy issues."

How do you read that?

BRINKLEY: No, I don't think that's accurate.

Here, you have George W. Bush basically saying, quoting Lindsey Graham talking about what a boondoggle things are, in other words saying, I agree with Lindsey Graham, who said this. He was clearly trying not to leave an ugly sound bite there. And this wasn't done on a talk show on TV. It was ostensibly done in private.

But you know they would be leakage. And the real point here is Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush was in Florida, did not go Las Vegas.

(CROSSTALK)

BRINKLEY: Yes.

BALDWIN: So, on the Jeb note, assuming he's going to throw his hat in the ring here, do you think there would have been a conversation? What would the conversation have looked like behind the scenes? Because I'm wondering if George W. Bush knew what he was going say, knew he would take this jab at President Obama and how this might play out when and if Jeb says, I'm running?

BRINKLEY: Well, I think that's part of all this. I think George W. Bush was there to let Sheldon Adelson know, my brother is a neocon.

In his remarks, he said, I'm probably an albatross around my brother's neck. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to help him. But I'm a great friend of Israel and I'm tough on the war on terror and so is my brother Jeb. He was playing the surrogate for Jeb Bush and trying to get Jewish-

American voters on the side of Jeb, even though he wasn't there for the Adelson meeting.

BALDWIN: Douglas Brinkley, thank you.

BRINKLEY: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, after a weekend of protests in Baltimore, some clearly quite violent, police now are saying they are the ones being threatened by gangs in the city. We have that for you and reaction.

Also, a desperate search for any survivors in Nepal after this massive earthquake. Incredible moment when this little boy was pulled out of the rubble alive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:46]

BALDWIN: All right, I want to comment on some pictures here. This is Baltimore. This is clearly one of the armored trucks. Perhaps this is the city police department. To be honest, I'm not totally sure.

But you see this truck begin to move. This is near the mall in the city, some folks along the -- obviously in the middle of the road, some of these demonstrators here this afternoon. Keep in mind, all of this happening as Freddie Gray has been laid to rest today. We can stay on these pictures.

And let me just tell you that police now, this is what we're hearing within the hour -- police in the city of Baltimore say they are now investigating what they consider credible threats against their own from various gang members in the city. Investigators say the gangs are teaming up to -- quote, unquote -- "take out" police.

This new development comes, as I mentioned, on the same day that hundreds attended 25-year-old Freddie Gray's funeral. He's the young man who died one week after he was arrested, suffered a severed spine and the question, how did that happen?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: But I am telling you, we will not rest, we will not rest until we address this and see that justice is done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I have Brian Todd. He is live in Baltimore. And on the phone with me, I have Neill Franklin. He was formerly in charge of training Baltimore City police officers. He was an officer in the city and also a state trooper.

So, Neill, I know we talked last Thursday, when I was in the city. But, first, Brian Todd, to you, what can you tell me about these credible threats from the gangs in the city towards police?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, Baltimore police have said that at least three gangs in this area, these are gangs that are normally rivals with one another, the Bloods, the Crips, and a gang called the Black Guerrilla Family -- have teamed up to, as you said, take out police officers.

That was the phrase police used earlier today when they put out this information, take out police officers. They believe this is a credible threat. They are investigating it. In the meantime, the police are taking -- at least appear to be taking extra security measures at their headquarters.

We witnessed police just adding to their presence of officers outside on the street right around Baltimore police headquarters downtown. Also, we saw them extending their perimeter a little bit outside of the Western Precinct, that of course the neighborhood where Freddie Gray was arrested and taken into custody on April 12.

That threat is ongoing. We also got word, I think, as you mentioned a moment ago, there's a gathering of protesters down near an area called the Mondawmin Mall near downtown Baltimore. Not sure quite the numbers of protesters that we're seeing there, but police are beefing up their presence throughout the streets here in Baltimore.

A lot of people looking towards this coming Friday, Brooke, when a police report on the Freddie Gray incident comes out and whether possible blame will be placed on certain officers in that incident, of course, Freddie Gray dying while in custody of a severe spinal cord injury.

May be some more facts coming out on Friday that might lead to the indictment of some police officers, many of the protesters here looking toward Friday to see if this -- this kind of cycle of civil unrest will continue, depending on what comes out in that report.

BALDWIN: Brian Todd, thank you.

And in case you're wondering what you're looking at, I'm being told these are live pictures. You can see members of the media. You can see these are all officers, obviously, in the middle of the street here, where you saw that armored truck a moment ago.