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Protests While Freddie Gray Laid to Rest in the City of Baltimore. Aired 3:30-4:00p ET

Aired April 27, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:03] BROOK BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Brian Todd, thank you.

And in case you're wondering what you're looking at, I'm being told these are live pictures. You can see members of the media. You can see these are officers obviously in the middle of the street here where you saw that armored truck a moment ago.

Neil Franklin let me bring you in. You've been a member of law enforcement for a number of years. And first just, you know, you know Baltimore. I was in the city on Thursday talking to you about all of this and to hear these gang members want to take out police officers in your city, how capable are they, how brazen are they to follow through on that threat?

NEIL FRANKLIN, FORMER MARYLAND POLICE OFFICER (via phone): First of all, Brooke, this is a very, very potentially dangerous situation. The BGF which is one of the main gangs of the three that have been mentioned is well-known here in Baltimore. They are the grouch folks that literally took over our Baltimore city detention center, you know, a year or two back where the main leader, the one in that detention center Devon White. He just recently had his trial not too long ago, where you recall the influence they have in the city because they make so much money selling illegal drugs. The power and influence they have in the city to literally bribe correctional officers, I mean, they had a whole list of correctional officers under his control who even had sex with and had children by.

This is just how much influence they have. And of course out in the streets they are known for committing so many crimes here across city, a very dangerous group of individuals. And this should not be taken lightly.

Unfortunately, we're at this place where they've made these threats on police officers and it's very likely -- I mean they do have the potential to follow through with those. This is a time, really, when we really need everyone, the citizens of Baltimore, you know, the police officers of Baltimore, you know, this is on both sides. It's about a few on both sides that have made this situation so bad for everyone.

You know, its a few police officers that have made this situation bad. And, you know, I reach out now to both the citizens and the police officers to support each other as we move forward. We've got a lot of work to do, and to have threats like come out, it is only going to push us back much further. I think the city, I think the commissioner, I think the police

officers already can move forward in a different direction. I ask the union, the fop, to become part of this process of healing and moving forward and for that to happen, you know, they are going to have to get word out the their officers to start no longer tolerating the officers that cause the harm within our communities and the problems that we're seeing.

BALDWIN: If I may, Neil, forgive me for interrupting. I just want to jump in because, you know, I threw my arms up in the air. What you can't see, what I could see is an image, I want to apologize that we showed you here that happened. This what's happening live on streets of Baltimore. And if you missed it that's a good thing.

But this is what's happening in the city, broad daylight on the day that 25-year-olded Freddie Gray was laid to rest on the day that this family is asking please for peace. You are seeing these pictures play out.

Forgive me, Neil for jumping in. I just felt the need to apologize to our viewers. And also, if I may follow up with this., you know, as I saw this armored truck rolling down your city streets, I immediately thought back to Ferguson and by no means am I comparing the two, but I'm wondering that, my question to you, as you know, someone who has worked in law enforcement for a number of years and there was the fear optically speaking of looking like, you know, members of law enforcement were out to do battle right with the citizens of any given city, at what point do you say it's time we have to use armored trucks, armored vehicles?

FRANKLIN: Well, when we get to the point where citizens are destroying property and they are putting life at risk, then, yes. Unfortunately, there is a time when we in law enforcement have to take those measures and it looks like we might be -- I was hoping we wouldn't, but it looks like we might be getting to that point.

I'm hoping that the leaders in Baltimore city not just in city hall, but also our faith community and community leaders are doing their best in reaching out to the people who are causing the problems. And I believe you're referring to the (INAUDIBLE) mall which is a very popular shopping center in Baltimore. I grew up just blocks from there.

So it's a very popular place. It's a major metro transfer stop for the metro and bus, a lot of young people. Right now I think you have a lot of kids coming home from school. So, yes, this is going to be a very problematic time. And hopefully we'll be able to do the right thing that help calm some of these situations down now.

[15:35:03] BALDWIN: So, I'm just going give you a play-by-play, Neil, and you tell me if you're in front of a TV. But I assuming you're not. We're looking at live pictures here of Baltimore police standing shoulder to shoulder, looks like with batons, protesters on one side backing up. Some with their hands up and these members of law enforcement are almost in this u-shape in the middle of the street. God. Just to know this is happening, again, on a day when this young

man was laid to rest. Knowing that we're reporting this credible threat against law enforcement, how -- talk about this delicate rope that police have to walk in respecting one's, you know, right to protest but at the same time stopping it from going too far.

FRANKLIN: It is a very delicate place. And you know it's very easy to do Monday morning quarterbacking which we saw from Saturday's event. There is no textbook response to this sort of thing. It's fluid. And you can only do the best that you can do, gather as much intelligence as you can. Hopefully you have people positioned at strategic locations to feed information to those officers who are on the scene so that they can decide, you know, how they are going to form, which direction do they go, do they need move people in a particular direction, how much force to use. You got to have good intelligence here from a number of different vantage points. And hopefully some intelligence coming from the community of the folks who are, you know, involved in -- whether it's a protest, civil protest or whether it's one that's resulting in violence.

BALDWIN: Neil, stay with me. I want to continue this conversation as we stay on these images here in Baltimore. I want to bring in Athena Jones.

Athena, can you tell me where exactly in Baltimore are you as we're getting reports, by the way, from police of bottles and bricks now being thrown at officers, broad daylight, Monday afternoon.

OK. Being told we lost Athena. Guys, let's get in my ear when we have her again.

And Neil, let me take you back as we stay on these images, let me take you back to the point about these gangs and your point about them exerting, having this power in the city and exerting this kind of influence. What kind of conversations because listen I've covered police, I have covered crime for a number of years and I know that you have, you know, gang task force within any city police department. What kind of relationship would police officers have with gangs, what kind of conversations if any would be happening now to stop these gangs from being violent? Guys, do we have Neil?

FRANKLIN: I'm still here.

BALDWIN: Go ahead.

FRANKLIN: OK. So I'm hoping that there are community leaders on the area. I know there are some in the area. The question is how can we get information to them to let them know what's occurring. Hopefully there are community leaders in the area that can respond to this location (INAUDIBLE) to help out with what's occurring. I'm headed that way now. I'm just few blocks south there was. Hopefully I can get there and hopefully lend some assistance.

BALDWIN: Yes. I'll let you head in that direction. And listen, we're all watching this together and I would love to get someone on the phone. Yes. Being talked to in my ear, trying to let you know what's happening. So guys, let me know if we were able to get -- I'm talking live to control room. If we can get Athena Jones up or someone in the area, excellent. I'm being told it's being worked on.

So again, if you're just joining us what we're covering right here in Baltimore at 3:40 in the afternoon, a lot of different scenes. You have police obviously here in this parking lot, police on the right side of your screen lined up. We've seen and I don't know if it is fair to say pockets of the city throughout the city because I just don't know. But people are protesting. We have seen some people in the middle of the streets. We have seen an armored truck. According to Baltimore police reports of bottles and bricks being thrown at officers and we're all watching this together.

Media are there on the ground, covering this. Obviously, we're able to watch this because there are helicopters in the sky flying from different news stations, capturing this video. And telling the story in the wake of what happened to Freddie Gray who was the young man 25 years of age who back on April 12th was taken into police custody. At some point his spinal cord was severed, at some point he lapsed into a coma and died and one of the issues is the fact that medics weren't called for some 30 minutes as he was four blocks from the Baltimore's city police station.

So, we also know from the mayor that all of this from the police will be handed to the state's attorney's office to do that investigation, but so many questions remain in the wake of his death, how could this happen? Was he restrained? Recent reports saying he wasn't restrained in that prisoner police van. What happened as he was in the hospital? How could he have died? He hung on to life for six days.

I have Athena Jones with me now. Athena Jones is in Baltimore.

Athena, tell me exactly where you are and what you're seeing, please.

[15:40:38] ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, I'm less than a mile from the church where the funeral was held not long ago. At around 3:00 we saw an alert from the Baltimore police saying that high school students were planning some sort of walk out. These are some of the high school students that walked out of the high school we're at. We're right next to the high school. They have been in confrontations with the police. Some of them throwing rocks at the police. There is a line of police. I don't know how many police. At least 50 have been trying to create some sort of perimeter around here. They haven't done a very good job of that so far.

You can see police standing there. They are mostly standing in place. Every now and then they walk towards this crowd of high School students. There are more than 100 high school students out here. We haven't been able to count because they are scattered all around. They have been throwing rocks, they have been throwing bottles. There is a police tactical vehicle we've seen driving back and forth. When that drives by, they throw rocks. We had to duck rocks. We had several people tell us to be careful because people are planning to throw rocks in our direction. There are three helicopters circling around. BALDWIN: Please be careful, Athena. I know you can, but keep your

wits about you. I just want to make sure you're OK where you are, please to continue.

JONES: We are OK for now. We are staying out of the way and staying farther from the police who are the people who have - that the targets of the rocks. We've seen several helicopters flying low, one of which a few minutes ago called for this crowd to disperse, calling it an unlawful gathering. So it's a very, very unstable situation around here.

I talked to a bystander, an adult right when we arrived to try to get the lay of the land. He told me that he had been warned on his facebook page, he showed me a message on his facebook page that said don't go. Do not go to Mandawin (ph). This is the area we are in, Mandawin (ph), after 2:30. They are planning a riot, tell everybody.

The officer at the mall just said it's supposed to start here at Mandawin (ph) and go downtown. So don't go anywhere near those areas. Tell everybody.

That's just the message I'm reading that this adult received on facebook. So we don't know what will happen here. You can tell it's a very unstable situation. Some of these students are holding signs. I think you can see what we're seeing here.

BALDWIN: I see a line of officers and I see shields. I'm not quite sure if this is the picture behind you or elsewhere in the city. Tell me what you're seeing, Athena.

JONES: No. We are right next to the camera showing you that. There was a confrontation. One officer looks like a female officer stumbled and was just helped up. This is what's been going on for the last several minutes. There's debris thrown across the streets. Some of the things that we believe some of these students have been throwing. Not everyone has been throwing things, of course. There are a lot of the high school students who are kind of standing around not knowing what's going on or what to do next.

BALDWIN: What he is telling you?

JONES: So you can see a scenario -- he just said an officer just hit him. It's a very unstable situation. We heard some chants of hands up don't shoot. Not very many, but the problem, of course, is if these students are throwing things at the police that's a problem, that's an assault, and so we're going keep an eye on the situation.

BALDWIN: Let me let you take a breath. Stay with me. Do me a favor, Athena and just stay with me and we are going to stay on your picture here.

But again, we are hearing from Baltimore police and it looks like this is different parts of the city based upon the aerial shots we've been getting that some of these protesters are throwing rocks, they are throwing bricks at the officers. She's referring to this Madawin (ph) area, this mall. So if you're familiar with Baltimore, she was referencing some high school seniors, don't know if it was seniors or another group planning some sort of riot here. I now have information that the metro station, there they have shut the metro station down.

Athena do, you know if they have shut anything else down in the city? I mean, again, this is the day that 25-year-old Freddie Gray was, a funeral was held for him. Obviously, the city was prepared. They have all these officers out. They have shields. We saw an armored truck a moment ago. Do you know if other parts of the city is shutting down?

[15:45:00] JONES: All I do know is the University of Maryland in Baltimore which I'm not familiar with where that is in the city that they decided to close early, that they stopped some shuttle service they provide students because of the notice from Baltimore police earlier in the day about credible information they said they got about gangs that may be targeting police. That's what police put out earlier in the day. But it seems that the University of Maryland at Baltimore decided to shut down based on an alert from police about this planned protest that we're witnessing right now. I don't know if you can see these several more police cruisers just showed up, two jeeps. (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: We're losing you. We're losing her signal, guys. We are going to let them - we will shift to this other one for now. We'll work on Athena Jones and crew getting that back up.

Again, we're all watching this together. It's all unfolding here in Baltimore. Two things I want to point out. One, we have reporting from Baltimore police that there is now, as they consider a credible threat that three different -- actually there are rival gangs in the city of Baltimore, but that they all have the same goal. And I'm quoting again Baltimore police, they want to take out members of law enforcement.

You're watching, I don't know who these people are to be quite honest with you, but obviously tossing rocks, Baltimore police reporting bricks being tossed, bottles being tossed at police. And again, I cannot underscore this enough on the day that this young man was laid to rest.

You know, Freddie Gray's family calling on quiet, calling on peace. We heard from Congressman Elijah Cummings in the Baltimore area. He also - and also Reverend Jesse Jackson a number of leaders in community who have spoken with Reverend Jamal Bryant (ph) who is giving the eulogy today, all of them calling for the peace and clearly peace is not playing out at the moment through this city.

Again, perspective, two weeks now since this young man was found and arrested on this corner in this neighborhood in Baltimore. He died in police custody. The investigation being handed to the state attorney's office on Friday, but so many people furious over what's happened in this city.

Athena Jones is with me once again. She has been in this area of this mall where we have seen.

Athena, you were telling me, high school students were instigating some of this.

JONES: That's right. We got the notice that there was plan, I think they called it a purge, which apparently some sort of walk out of high school students. But I asked a couple of students, did they leave school early and wasn't school over by this hour? They said yes.

So I don't know what ages or what grades all of these students are from. Some seem to have dispersed, but there are still quite a few around here, not just on the street where we are but on intersections behind us that you can't see right now and up some of these side streets.

As you can see, the police are still holding the line.

What?

They seem to have -- is it tear gas? We believe they have tear gas canisters that they may be ready to deploy, but it is a very, very unstable situation. As I was mentioning a few minutes ago, the helicopter, a police chopper flew very, very low, ordered this crowd to disperse, calling it an unlawful gathering. That's not happened as you can see. There are still police officers and students in this area.

But as I mentioned, a lot of people telling us to be quiet and it seems that at least some of these students have cleared out not wanting to be a part of this. And I should mention as you know, as we have been saying, most of the morning, Brooke, you know, Freddie Gray's family did not want to see any more violence.

When that peaceful protest on Saturday ended with those skirmishes, those 35 arrests, Gray's sister, his twin sister, Fredricka, said that Freddie Gray wouldn't want this. Others had said, you know, violence doesn't bring justice. So this is the opposite, an extreme opposite of what, what they were hoping to see. It looks like something is on fire. Do you see that?

BALDWIN: I can't tell.

JONES: We don't want to get too close.

BALDWIN: No. Please don't get too close.

JONES: We don't want to get too close.

BALDWIN: A lot of officers running towards the camera.

JONES: Right. It looks as though it is maybe a plastic trash can on fire. And they are throwing rocks into the air. Almost like a popcorn popper. You know, one of those stove top popcorn poppers. That's how many rocks and larger items seem to be in the air. A police officer clearly hurt here. Look at that. Do you see that?

BALDWIN: Yes.

JONES: This is the police officer that had been pulled out. We got to move back.

BALDWIN: Athena.

JONES: Move back.

BALDWIN: Athena, let me let you go. Move back. Move back. Stay safe, please. Athena Jones get out of the way. To you and your crew, stay safe. Get out of the way of these objects being hold in your direction.

Goodness. Neil Franklin. I have Neil Franklin on the phone.

[15:50:10] FRANKLIN: Yes.

BALDWIN: He is - he was a law enforcement. You were with Baltimore city for a couple of years, Neil. And so from the last time we talked, you're able to get to this location which we're watching. We just saw an officer apparently injured. It looks like a mess in the city of Baltimore. Tell me what are you seeing?

FRANKLIN: Yes. So these are school children. These are school kids that apparently just recently got out of some of their local schools. We're at the intersection here. A lot of these is at the intersection of (INAUDIBLE), Gwens (ph) falls and (INAUDIBLE) at the -- what we would call the southeast corner of the Mandawin (ph) mall, Monroe Street comes into play here. Not too far from where the church was, where this occurred.

But these are school kids. And unfortunately, it would have been probably a good idea if we'd have foreseen this, maybe some leadership at our schools, local schools, throughout the city talking about this and at least giving some, giving the kids some instruction, some advice on what to do and what not to do, how to behave themselves. How to behave themselves and this --

BALDWIN: I don't honestly know what instruction could have done. I mean, they sound like these young people had it in their minds to do this. In fact, I was handed an article from "the Baltimore Sun" and it looks like, according to a widely circulated flyer, I'm reading the Sun now, a high school purge. So it looks like this was, Neil, anticipated. I don't know what the heads up was, but a high school purge is what they called it, to take place this hour starting at the mall and ending downtown. So --

FRANKLIN: Yes, and unfortunately this area here, unfortunately, this area here and (INAUDIBLE) mall, where you have this transfer facing with metro and major bus lines in the city, it is like the perfect place for something like this to occur. So I'm not surprised at the location.

BALDWIN: All right, Neil, stay with me on the phone, please, sir.

And Athena Jones, I understand we have your shot back up. I'm looking at a number of officers with batons and shields and a heck of a lot of smoke. JONES: We're unclear on what just happened. We saw a trash can that

was burning. We thought that maybe the protestors had thrown that in the air. But now, you can see this big, huge cloud of smoke across the street from us. We're seeing canisters. We don't know if they're smoke bombs. It doesn't seem as though it is tear gas in the air, but -- yes.

You can see this is a very fluid situation. We cannot tell what's going to happen next, but you can look and see -- this tactical unit moving by. This is exactly the kind of vehicle that some of the protestors were throwing things earlier.

We don't know what is -- injured just now. I'm looking now at another officer who's down, who looks like he's being given assistance. Bottom line, Brooke, this is a very, very unstable situation. And it's hard to say -- how their able to -- mentioned they asked for the area -- that hasn't happened yet. I also --

BALDWIN: Athena, you're going in and out. You are going in and out, so just to stand by.

Neill, a question I asked you before, but for people who are just tuning in and we're watching all of these protests, broad daylight, Monday afternoon. And we are looking at, again, I made this point to you earlier, that this does, in a sense, seem reminiscent of the armored trucks, the batons, the shields that were used in Ferguson. Why, if you are, you know, Baltimore city police, I want you to explain to me the need for all of this.

FRANKLIN: Well, obviously, you have to be able to not just protect your selves from - and I'm standing here and I'm watching the rocks being thrown. I'm watching objects being tossed at the police officers.

So you have to be able, number one, to protect yourselves, and then there's a lot of other people out here who have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with this. You still have a lot of traffic here on the road. You have a lot of objects being thrown. And the police have a duty to protect these citizens who are traveling about the city. I mean, that's a city. That's their job. And unfortunately, you do need this type of equipment.

We've already had a number of officers injured due to this melee out here, and now we've got the mini bikes are out running up and down the street, but -- so, yes. I mean, there is a time and a place for the deployment and use of this equipment. And I'm really hoping things calm down somewhat here, that we're able to disburse some of these young people and get things back to normal, then we can retire some of this equipment.

BALDWIN: Neil, can you tell what's being thrown?

[15:55:05] FRANKLIN: Yes. I mean, its rocks. It's bricks. It's anything they can find laying around in the street, couple of bottles. And some of the alleys that the kids were running down, there's -- tons of debris to grab, and then bring out and then hurl at the police officers standing here at Monroe and (INAUDIBLE) road.

BALDWIN: And for people again who don't know Baltimore, can you just explain this part of town, me, understands this is adjacent to a mall, a metro station. Where are we here?

FRANKLIN: Yes. So this is a major hub in Baltimore just in the northwest part of Baltimore, where you have the convergence of a number of major thoroughfares. You have Monroe Street. You have Gwen falls parkway. You have Rice Town road and a couple other roads that come into this major intersection here. And it's, again, like I said, it's a major hub for the metro, which is the underground transportation service. And then a number of bus lines also come into this particular location, and they carry a lot of school children during this time of the day, and -- and here you have it.

This place is known. The metro center here is known for a lot of unrest from time to time involving our school children. So, you know, with what has occurred with Freddie Gray, and I mean, it's literally hundreds of kids are out here right now. On a normal day, this is a potential problem, and in light of everything that's occurring over the weekend, that even heightens it more.

BALDWIN: Neill, let me jump in. Forgive me. Let me just jump in because I want to get back to our reporter, Athena Jones.

Athena, tell me what you're seeing. You're live.

JONES: We've seen this line of police officers -- stepping forward -- this is -- hold a new line that they haven't been holding before. We've also been warned though that there could be tear gas at any moment to help disburse this crowd.

As I mentioned, the crowd has been warned, that this is an unlawful gathering and that they should leave the area. But there hasn't been any arrests that we've seen. This is, like I said, an attempt it looks like by dozens and dozens of police officers to try to begin to push these protestors back.

As I mentioned, some of them are holding signs. This is about the death of Freddie Gray, but it's exactly the opposite of the kind of protests that Freddie Gray's family wanted to see or that Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake have been - she wanted to see and other city officials and elected officials, who have warned that this kind of violence is not going to bring justice. This is what -- started - (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Guys, we do not have a great signal with Athena. So let me know when we do it again.

But again, one of my questions again, really is, we always have to put stories like this in perspective. We're showing one picture. I'm wondering if this is this one section of Baltimore, in which you have clearly demonstrators. It sounds like a number of young people, high school students who are out, who according to our reporters, our eyes on the ground, are throwing bricks and rocks and bottles at members of Baltimore police. Is this one section of town? Is this happening throughout Baltimore? Athena, can you hear me?

JONES: I can hear you. I've just been -- you can see this police line moving. I hope you can see this picture.

BALDWIN: I got it.

JONES: I just spoken to a few bystanders here who are very angry. They are saying this is not the way to get something done. This is just going to create more problems, more strife. So a lot of folks around here do not support what they're seeing, as would be expected.

But it's unstable. I've just seen a board, it looks like a piece of plywood, thrown into the street, in the direction of the police. So -- we just had to duck from it looks like part of a brick thrown. So --

BALDWIN: Watch yourself, in situations like these, you have to have eyes in the back of your head, you and your crew.

JONES: We have.

BALDWIN: And I know you are surrounded by people, but make sure you are safe.

In the final seconds I have and before we go to Jake, let me ask you, do you know, is this concentrated in one part of Baltimore or are there other protests elsewhere?

JONES: I don't know if it's going on elsewhere. We -- we know that it's in this area, but we don't know for sure what's going on, on other parts of town.

BALDWIN: OK. Athena Jones, thank you so much to you and your crew. We're going to stay on these pictures.

Again, you've been watching for the better course of really the last half hour here, just an hour or so after the funeral of 25-year-old Freddie Gray, a number of young people hurling rocks, bottles, bricks at police, armed with their batons and armored vehicles. We'll watch this through the afternoon.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Let's go to Washington. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.