Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Baltimore Institutes Curfew from 10:00 pm to 5:00 am Until May 4th; One Of Baltimore`s Own Calls Out The Rioters On Facebook; Toya Graham Discovers Her Son In The Middle Of The Trouble Last Night In Baltimore
Aired April 28, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:07] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW: We are beginning where Nancy left off. We have breaking news from Baltimore.
The curfew now one hour away. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): You cannot be doing (EXPLETIVE WORDS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Taking (EXPLETIVE WORDS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Straight up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (1): We are watching right now a crowd jumping on a police car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (2): This is active looting going on right now. I assume that CVS pharmacy basically trashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (3): Up on the left is the liquor store that is on fire. Somebody literally just went in there and torched it,
obviously. There is a baby coming out from the building next door.
STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, BALTIMORE MAYOR: This is one of our darkest days as a city.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: (4): This is unbelievable. There is nobody here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (5): Buildings set on fire after being looted. This was a clothing shop.
PINSKY: We are looking at a big fire in multiple buildings.
ROBERT VALENTINE, VIETNAM VETERAN: They need to have their butts at home. They need to be in their home units, with their family, studying,
and doing something with their life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (6): He has decided that he wants to throw something at officers. The officers are moving in. He is now going to be
arrested. Here we go. Here we go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar, attorney, of counsel to the Cochran Firm; Spirit, psychotherapist, Crystal Wright, political
commentator at GOPBlackchick.com and CNN Correspondent, Joe Johns. He is at Baltimore City Hall right now. Joe, what is the feeling on the street
there? What is the latest for us?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We did have a demonstration, small demonstration and peaceful just over my shoulder here at city hall just a
little while ago. They have chanted, as we have seen before back to the normal before all the excitement and the violence in the streets of
yesterday.
In about an hour, a curfew begins here in the city of Baltimore. That is going to extend from 10:00 P.M. eastern time until 5:00 A.M. eastern
time. And, it is going to go until May 4th. So, they are hoping that cooler heads will prevail in the city. By the way, acute curfew for those
14 and under begins at 9:00 P.M. eastern time.
PINSKY: And, Joe -- Joe --
JOHNS: So, our police --
PINSKY: I want to ask --
JOHNS: Yes, go ahead.
PINSKY: Quick question. The National Guard now is there on the ground. Have they added to the sense of calm or have they added to
tension?
JOHNS: In my view, they have added to the sense of calm. It is clear that they are not here to arrest people. They are providing support for
the police officers on the ground. They are filling in, in some areas, so police officers can work over in the western part of the city where most of
the problems have occurred.
So, we have seen them around tourist locations. A number of them, in fact, around the city hall here and -- frankly, yes, it is imposing simply
because you see troops with military weapons on the streets of Baltimore. A very imposing picture and something we do not see every day in the United
States, Drew.
PINSKY: It is somehow eerie hearing the church bells chime behind you there. Is that something that we would not have heard last night? Is that
part of the normal functioning of the community now?
JOHNS: No. Right. It happens every hour on the hour here. And, we have been here for a little bit more than a week on and off. And, we hear
that quite frequently. But there is some significance to it simply because that 9:00 hour is when the 14-year-olds, even before this curfew were
supposed to be off the street. At 10:00 P.M., an hour from now, that is the special curfew imposed due to the problems here in the city.
PINSKY: Thank you, Joe. We really appreciate you joining us. Now, as of now, the data on this episode, 235 arrested. 20 officers injured.
19 buildings ablaze. 144 cars set on fire. Now, Anahita, people were allowed to loot and set fires for hours last night before police were able
to get control of things.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
PINSKY: The mayor had some sort of interesting ways of sort of framing the entire thing that night. People are blaming her a little bit
for creating the space for violence.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: That is how she framed it. Do you think that this went way too far in terms of what the leaders allowed?
SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely. I mean, a lot of people are criticizing that Mayor, Dr. Drew. They are saying she did not act fast enough. She
did not act toughly enough. And, I agree with that clearly, that police force was not prepared for this type of rioting and looting and people
burning up cars and building up buildings. And, I think that is why the National Guard had to come out there, to make sure that things are not
escalated, to keep things under control.
PINSKY: And Crystal, I will ask you a similar question. Leadership generally, people have been very critical of the federal government for not
speaking up sooner. People are being critical of the mayor. What are your feelings?
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I do not agree that we can blame the federal government on this. It is really a local problem.
The mayor should have stepped in much more forcefully. I agree with Anahita.
I think that Mayor Rawlings-Blake`s remarks initially on Saturday, where she gave a very publicized press conference, and she said, "You know,
I am working with the police to make sure we give space to those who want to go around and destroy this city."
That was not helpful. But, I think on a bigger scale, when I look at Congressman Cummings, who is one of the congressmen who represents that
area in Maryland, there is a lot of apologizing on behalf that we are seeing coming from black liberal lawmakers like Cummings, like what we saw
the remarks coming out of the mayor`s mouth, you know, almost apologizing for the rioters.
And, I think what needed to happen initially on Saturday was a forceful condemnation of let us face it, Dr. Drew, young black men in
general, and also young black men going out on a rampage to destroy the city and shut it down. And, that is exactly what they did. And then they
wonder why these same politicians wonder why police are suspicious of black men.
And, black men are proving that sadly on the streets of Baltimore from Saturday to Monday. Monday culminating in fires and all sorts of, you know
-- it looked like ground zero, like a war zone the day that Freddie Gray was buried. So, to me, it perpetuates this whole -- it busts a hole into
this notion that black men are not creating a lot of crime. All you got to look at the video and look at the footage.
PINSKY: And, Spirit, I am going get you in a second. I want to point out to the viewers, though, you are looking at live video. It looks like
even maybe a phone. Yes, it is CNN`s video from the street right now live in Baltimore. And, you can see things are -- you can see things are still
not looking that great. There is only 15 minutes until the curfew.
I beg your pardon, 5-0, 50 minutes. And, Crystal -- I beg your pardon. Spirit, Crystal has a point, does she not? That in a way being so
violent marginalizes or at least makes it impossible to make the point that people were trying to look at in the first place, which was the issue of
African-American males and law enforcement.
SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCOTHERAPIST: Well, you know, unfortunately, I just cannot agree with her, because -- and to sit and to listen to her, it
literally makes my blood boil, because it is back to the race baiting. And, I am disgusted that Crystal, unfortunately, that she would not even
make this a black issue.
WRIGHT: Well --
CLANTON: The fact of the matter --
WRIGHT: What did you say?
CLANTON: Let me finish because I did not interrupt you.
WRIGHT: I am sorry. I did not hear what you just said.
CLANTON: Then just listen.
WRIGHT: Well, I did not hear what you said.
CLANTON: And you will be able to hear where I am going.
PINSKY: Hang on, ladies. Hang on, Spirit. Spirit, Spirit, here is what we are going to do. Spirit is going to finish her thought, and then
Crystal, after the break, we are going to have you respond to it. But, Spirit, finish your thought.
CLANTON: This is not -- the rioting, the looting, this is not a black or white issue. And, by the way, I did see people that were not black and
not male in that footage that we just saw live down there. But when you talk about rioting, when you talk about looting, when you talk about
pillaging, that is the history of this nation. You talk about uprising.
We can go all the way back to the 18th century and look at Shays` rebellion. Look at the Boston Tea Party. Look at holy week all over the
country. This is what happens. Civil unrest when the people are unhappy.
And, so what we are talking about now is a group of individuals who say, "If you want to pay more attention to broken window panes than broken
spines, then you will have to listen to us. We now have attention in Baltimore. And, it is time to have some real discussion. How many more
cities are going have to burn before we have real discussion?
PINSKY: But Spirit -- Spirit --
CLANTON: How many months have we been doing this, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: You and I have been here a number of times. But, I got to say, the historical event you are mentioning --
CLANTON: With different cities.
PINSKY: But the historical events you are mentioning are uprisings against the government, where people took action against a particular law
or particular government --
CLANTON: And, that is what is happening here.
PINSKY: Well, this is against private business. This is against their community.
CLANTON: No. No, no.
PINSKY: This is against who --
CLANTON: No, it is not, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hang on. I am going to hold on.
CLANTON: That is no. It is not. That is no. It is not.
PINSKY: I am going to hold you.
CLANTON: That is where we are getting confused.
PINSKY: You are right. I am getting confused. And, we will good back to Baltimore for a live update. And, later, people are still talking
about Bruce Jenner, one of them an ex-wife. We will hear from her later on the show. Back to Baltimore after the break and Crystal`s response.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Jesus say turn the other cheek, right? Well, you only got two. But I will smack you like 16 times. How many
times I am going to smack you before you smack me back, flat-out? (EXPLETIVE WORDS).
And, that is how we feel. And if you (EXPLETIVE WORDS), you too, man. I am sorry. I am sorry, you know. You are not going to keep smacking me.
I am out of here. I knew that (EXPLETIVE WORDS) man that die from you, all man! (EXPLETIVE WORDS) you. (EXPLETIVE WORDS) you. Flat-out, ((EXPLETIVE
WORDS). You think it now. Wait until nighttime (EXPLETIVE WORDS).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Tensions still running high in Baltimore. And right now, right there, you are looking I believe is at the Los Angeles -- no, this is
still live in Baltimore here. This is live in Baltimore. A mandatory curfew takes effect in less than an hour, in about 45 minutes. These are
our cameras on the ground there. And, you see the tensions are still running very high.
This, now, is a picture from a protest in Los Angeles. It is quite a bit calmer. You know, people, police are still I am sure concerned that,
that could fly out of hand as well. And, now, Crystal, I am going to give you a chance to respond to what Spirit had said before the break. Go
ahead.
WRIGHT: You know, I think it is very interesting in the time that I have been on your show, Dr. Drew, whenever I point out the real problems
plaguing my race, black Americans, people like Spirit resort to personal attacks against me. We can have different opinions. I am not trying to
attack her. But I am going to tell you a quick story here because I know I do not have a lot of time.
CLANTON: OK.
WRIGHT: The face of what is going on in Baltimore is the face of black America destroying their own. Baltimore is a predominantly black
city. Baltimore has a disproportionate amount of crime compared to -- I think it is one of the most violent cities in the United States of America.
And, it has most -- the highest unemployment, black unemployment --
PINSKY: Is that the problem.
WRIGHT: -- one of the highest in cities --
PINSKY: Is that -- could that be an issue?
WRIGHT: Yes, it is a problem.
PINSKY: OK.
WRIGHT: Yes. It is exactly a problem because in the mid-60s, Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote something called the Moynihan report, Dr. Drew.
And, he wrote that he was seeing a disturbing trend in black America. He was seeing a lot of babies born to single moms and more black males being
incarcerated.
And, in 1970, my grandfather in Richmond, Virginia, worked in a working class, he ran a dry-cleaners, baker`s dry-cleaners and Laundromat.
He was working late one night to make extra money and he installed washing and drying machines.
And, as the black family was breaking down, two thugs criminals, like the thugs we are seeing in the Baltimore streets, came into my
grandfather`s place of business, pulled out a gun and shot him in the chest. So, I know something about thuggery and criminality.
I was 4 years old. My grandfather did never saw my youngest brother. And, my mom still gets -- she is reduced to the point of being a little
girl when I pulled out his death certificate when I was home recently on a trip to Richmond, Virginia.
And the problem with Spirit is that you are perpetuating -- you are trying to act like what is going on in Baltimore is an uprising. What
Martin Luther King Jr. did, my dear was an uprising. What is going on in the streets of Baltimore is a disgrace.
PINSKY: Spirit.
WRIGHT: And, it is all because you have young black men being raised in fatherless homes where there is no accountability. And, I agree with
President Barack Obama today.
The one thing I agreed with him about today, is that those young men were thugs and they are predominantly black that is the face of violent
crime in the United States of America today, until we start trying to get to the root of the problem.
You said, "Oh, we have drawn attention. We have done a great thing in Baltimore today". You would want your children out there behaving like
that, Spirit? You upset me. You make me ashamed.
PINSKY: Spirit, go ahead.
CLANTON: Well, what I will say is you have my deepest sympathies on the story that you just told. That is a heart-wrenching story no matter
the color. But what I also will say as a therapist, it explains a lot as why you may have the positions that you have. That could have happened to
anyone regardless of race. But when you would choose --
WRIGHT: It has nothing to do --
CLANTON: -- an entire group. I have listened to you. Please listen to me.
WRIGHT: The facts do not support what you are saying.
CLANTON: Oh, they actually do. And, when you talk about --
WRIGHT: Who is in the prisons?
CLANTON: I am speaking. And, I listened to you quite well. Hear what I am saying. Who is in the prisons? Who also -- you talk about the
lack of employment opportunities. Let us talk about --
WRIGHT: Who is disproportionate of -
CLANTON: I am not finished.
WRIGHT: Black men.
CLANTON: You talk about disproportionate. Let us talk about the disproportionate amount of CEOs in Baltimore that are people of color. Let
us talk about the --
WRIGHT: We are not talking about CEOs.
CLANTON: No. You are talking about the lack of employment.
WRIGHT: They have nothing to do with violent crime.
CLANTON: Oh, it does. No. Hear what I am saying. You are talking about unemployment.
WRIGHT: So, the CVS burned down.
CLANTON: Let us talk about those who have the ability to employ. Let us talk about was the owner of that CVS black?
WRIGHT: CVS had the ability to employ.
CLANTON: Likely not. Hear what I am saying.
WRIGHT: And, the store was destroyed.
CLANTON: This is what I am saying to you. When you talk about -- now, do you want to have a debate? Do you want to listen or do you want to
just have your voice heard?
PINSKY: Finish up, Spirit. Finish up.
CLANTON: Because what I am talking to you about is a different position. When you talk about people burning down their own, they have no
ownership. They are disenfranchised and that is a part of the problem.
PINSKY: Spirit, would you agree that at least I think with the three of us could agree -- I know Anahita, you would ring in similarly, which is
in order to feel a connection with community, the first unit for which that connection is made is the family, right?
CLANTON: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Right. And, Crystal has a point that there has been -- throughout the country there is a problem with our families.
CLANTON: Absolutely.
PINSKY: It is not singularly African American. OK.
WRIGHT: Yes. It is, Dr. Drew. 73 -- Wait a minute. Let us --
PINSKY: I am not going to say anything. Hang on. But, Crystal, I will let you have -- but I am not saying it is not disproportionately
represented there. OK. It may be. And we can argue about why it is, but go ahead and give us the data.
WRIGHT: 72 percent of black babies in America today according to Brookings institute, a liberal-leaning nonprofit are born without fathers.
72 percent. 72 percent. So, most black babies today are not married, Dr. Drew, to an intact family. And you know what? We all know what happens
when you are not raised in a home with two parents.
PINSKY: Well, I will tell you --
WRIGHT: You tend to --
PINSKY: You tend to have trouble, but --
WRIGHT: Well, I am not going to go on the Brookings crime statistics.
PINSKY: But, Crystal, I understand what you are going to say but let me tell you. There is one solution to that, that the data also bears out,
which is that a single sustained relationship with an adult outside the home over a long period of time significantly reduces the risk.
So, we all have a job to do there potentially. I got to take a break. One of Baltimore`s own calls out the rioters on Facebook. I will show you
some of that video. We got a lot more to get to. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER (ph), CNN HOST OF "THE SITUATION ROOM" PROGRAM: Miguel, I want you to be careful over there.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Police are now blocking us in.
Nation of Islam that are well respected in this neighborhood. And, they are literally collaring young people, pulling them aside and getting
them out of here. That bottle was just thrown at police by an individual. This is what happens. This is what happens. They throw a bottle, and
individuals like this come out trying to stop it. Firefighters right here, you can see them.
They are furiously trying to get that hose hooked up, so that they can get the water in good enough amounts on that fire at CVS. Holy hell, Wolf.
I got to tell you. This side -- I have covered a lot of things. Nothing as dramatic and chaotic as this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Curfew --curfew in Baltimore is just minutes away. I am back with Anahita, Spirit, and Crystal, and my panel all have very important
comments. I am going to ask everybody to please keep brief. Do not talk over each other. I am bringing Larry Elder in here in a minute. I think
Anahita and I will be sitting this one out.
CLANTON: I am going home.
PINSKY: No. No. But, what you have been saying -- listen, I am watching the Twitter feed. And people are -- it is really interesting. It
is like 50 people are split right down the middle on you two.
CLANTON: Of course.
PINSKY: So, you both have very important things to say. We want to hear them. Larry is going to have something to say. Before we go out to
him, though, on the phone, I have Trey Yingst.
He is a journalist for "News2Share." He has been in Baltimore for the last couple of days. Trey, now, you and your colleagues were attacked last
night. Tell us what happened to you?
TREY YINGST, JOURNALIST FOR NEWS2SHARE: Yes. We were attacked by some people that were rioting. They had been looting a liquor store. And,
then, afterwards, they were trying to basically pry an ATM out of the side of the building.
And, one of the journalists that I was with from the Daily Caller was standing pretty close to where that was occurring. I was standing about in
the middle of the street. And, when I turned around, I saw that he had been punched in the face and he was bleeding pretty badly.
PINSKY: We are looking at a picture of him right now, in fact, Trey. I think that is him.
YINGST: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes. It is pretty intense.
YINGST: It is a pretty bad injury. So, we wanted to get him attention right away. And, we tried to take him across the street. And,
as we did that and made our way to the other side of the street, a group of people, three or four people came after us. One was holding a hammer, and
the other one had large glass bottles. And, another journalist from the Daily Caller was hit across the face with one of the glass bottles.
PINSKY: Anything going on with you right now, or can you observe any action or are things calming down right now?
YINGST: Yes. Right now you may be able to hear the helicopters flying above. There are is a number of helicopters above me right now. I
am about ten feet from a line of riot police, and there is a group of maybe 20 to 30 protesters that have been yelling profanities and such at these
riot police.
PINSKY: I am wondering, control room, can he maybe hold up his phone for us and maybe get a, you know, a video or something that we can maybe
put up here. OK. Trey, get me a video of what you are seeing right now. We will check back with you in a couple of minutes, OK?
YINGST: Fantastic.
PINSKY: All right. At this point, I want to bring in on Skype, Larry Elder, radio commentator, author of "Dear Father, Dear Son." Larry, I hope
you heard the lively conversation between Spirit and Crystal.
LARRY ELDER, RADIO COMMENTATOR: I did.
PINSKY: And I want to get your thoughts.
ELDER: Well, when Martin Luther King, Dr. Drew, said that riots are the language of the unheard, he was not talking about a country that has a
black president whose been elected and reelect. He was not talking about a country with back-to-back black attorneys general.
He was not talking about a city like Baltimore where the mayor is black, where the top two law enforcement officials are black, where the
department is 40 percent black. This is a very different country than the one Martin Luther King was referring to when he made that comment. This
gets us to the problem that was mentioned earlier, the absence of black fathers.
75 percent or so of black kids are born without fathers. And, Obama said that a kid without a dad is five times more likely to be poor, nine
times more likely to drop out of school, 20 times more likely to end up in jail. That is a far, far bigger problem than the precedence of racist
officers, the absence of black father, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: OK. Hold your thought. I want to give Spirit`s response. Spirit, is the perfect person to respond. She is a therapist. Spirit, I
believe that we all have to contribute to the solution. But, I want to give you a chance to response to what Larry just said.
CLANTON: And, you just hit the nail on the head, Dr. Drew. And, I want to make sure that you and also Anahita do not bow out of this
conversation. Because then you do the very thing that everyone else is trying to do, which is make this a black/white issue. That is not what
this is.
ELDER: Of course it is.
CLANTON: This is an American issue.
ELDER: Of course not.
CLANTON: No. This is not about black and white. And, the moment you make it about that --
ELDER: This is black crime.
SEDAGHATFAR: I will chime in, Dr. Drew.
CLANTON: This is about --
PINSKY: I will get you, Anahita, in a second.
CLANTON: This is about disproportionate. Exactly as you said, Larry Elder. This is about individuals who are tired of being disenfranchised.
Individuals who are tired of lack of opportunity.
ELDER: Nonsense.
CLANTON: And, so, you are dealing with this -- you can say nonsense all day, every day. But I guarantee you that if this were Hispanic
individuals, if this were Asian Americans, if this were white people, this happens all over the place any time --
ELDER: No, it does not.
CLANTON: -- you have any group of individuals, who feel disenfranchised and disempowered.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on.
CLANTON: Yes, it does. If you say, "No, it does not," you have not done your history.
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: Spirit. No, no. Elder, hold on. I will let you in a second. I want to get to Anahita. And, the point was that when there is
an disenfranchised, unemployed particularly younger male population that is increasing in size, we do see unrest in most countries. But I do not know,
is that what is going on here, Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: That is an explanation, I suppose, Dr. Drew. But, I have to disagree with Spirit, and I love you, Spirit. But I think it is
disingenuous --
CLANTON: Love you back.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- to say that this is not a racial issue. This is about African Americans and frankly other minorities who feel this mistrust
of police officers. They feel they are not treated fairly.
They fear that -- or feel, excuse me, that they are being racially targeted. And, now is the time that we do need to have this frank
discussion of the role that race plays in our criminal justice system, but I am sorry. Rioting --
CLANTON: That I agree with. That I agree with.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. But let us be productive about it. Let us have productive conversations. How do we bridge this gap?
CLANTON: that I agree with as well.
SEDAGHATFAR: Rioting and burning down cars and throwing rocks at police, that is counterproductive, and I disagree with you, Spirit. This is
their community.
CLANTON: And, that I agree with as well.
SEDAGHATFAR: This is their community.
CLANTON: What have you disagree with?
PINSKY: Hang on. Spirit, hold on. Hang on, Anahita. Larry, go ahead.
ELDER: Dr. Drew, blacks are 13 percent of the population. Young black men are about 3 percent of the population. Out of that 3 percent
come almost 50 percent of the nation`s homicides, come 40 percent of our nation`s prisons. This is a disproportionately black problem.
PINSKY: OK. OK.
ELDER: Because of the absence of black fathers.
WRIGHT: Well --
PINSKY: Maybe, Crystal -- Yes. Crystal, you have always complained that a lot of that was directed against other blacks.
WRIGHT: Well, I have not complained. I have given, you know --
PINSKY: Reported.
WRIGHT: -- statistics that are backed up by the justice department that blacks I think we talked about this ad nauseam. Six times nor likely
to commit homicides, six or seven times, and an equal rate, you know, to be killed by other blacks.
But, I want to go back to something Spirit said, because I think I do not know what kind of psychology you are using, but I am going to go to
facts here. So, what I know is -- so you say that oh, young black people are disenfranchising Baltimore --
PINSKY: Crystal, 30 seconds 30 seconds, Crystal. Go ahead.
WRIGHT: If you are disenfranchised and you do not have a job, why go out and loot and burn down businesses that are going to give you a job?
That makes no logical sense. This needs to be condemned. It is wrong. I do not know what kind of psychology you are trying to pull here, but you
are a part of the problem, Spirit.
CLANTON: Have not heard a statistic yet, dear.
WRIGHT: Sending message to young black men who are watching tonight that they will not be held accountable for their violent behavior --
CLANTON: Who said that?
WRIGTH: -- which I believe has become built in the DNA of black men for generation. It is a generational problem.
CLANTON: You did not listen to a thing I said. You did not listen to a thing I said.
PINSKY: But, Spirit, there is something I want you to address after the break, which is the generational issues. There is some generational
stuff we can address. More from Baltimore, more from this group after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLORIA DARDEN, FREDDIE GRAY`S MOM: I want you all to get justice for my son, but do not do it like this here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What is your name?
VALENTINE: Valentine.
JOHNS: And your first name?
VALENTINE: Robert.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VALENTINE: They do not respect this young man`s death, you know? Now momma and daddy lost a child. That could be theirs. So, I am very pissed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Of course the principle responsibility belongs to the criminals who were destroying their own neighborhoods.
However, letting people loot for hours at a time, that is not how police should behave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Anahita, Spirit, Crystal and Larry Elder. Take a look now at this viral video. It is a mother, Toya Graham. She discovers
her son, one of six children I believe she has, the other are daughters, in the middle of the trouble last night. She is obviously not happy.
Crystal -- excuse me, Spirit, I am going to ask you about generational issues. I want you to look at that video. We are also going to hear from
Toya Graham who spoke to CBS News about why she reacted like that. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOYA GRAHAM, MOTHER OF ONE OF THE RIOTERS IN BALTIMORE: Lo and behold, I turn around and I look in this crowd, and my son is actually
coming across the street with this hoodie on and a mask. At that point, I just lost it. That is my only son. And, at the end of the day, I do not
want him to be a Freddie Gray.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, Spirit, there is a few things that occurs to me when I hear that poor with her son the way -- First, I am so gratified by what she
did. I love what she did. OK.
CLANTON: What did she say? At the end of the day, she did not want her son to be what?
PINSKY: Freddie Gray. She does not want her son to be killed by the police. She did not say, "My son is behaving like an idiot. I want to
make him stop."
CLANTON: Right.
PINSKY: Which I find interesting by in and of itself. But, what I want to get at with you is that I find what she did -- I think everyone
looking at it so satisfying, yet, I am sorry to say that, that kind of parenting when that boy was 3 years old is what creates what we are dealing
with here to a certain extent.
CLANTON: There you go.
PINSKY: Particularly if there is no dad around to help that poor mom with the six kids. So, what about the intergenerational --
CLANTON: Yes, you know, what I thought I did not think that.
PINSKY: Yes. What about the intergenerational issues? How do we deal with that?
CLANTON: Well, it is not a question of how do you deal with it, besides saying Dr. Drew exactly what you said, that there is a different
way. I am positive you cannot convince me that, that was the first time that she went upside her son`s head like that.
Now, as she said out of her own mouth, when she did it yesterday, it was not to discipline him. That was out of fear. She was afraid for her
son`s life. And she did not want to lose him at the hands of law enforcement. But, unfortunately, what she does not understand is that it
is the environment, including her that has him out there in the streets like that.
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
CLANTON: And, it is an unfortunate opinion, but it is the reality, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: OK. And, now, Spirit, I think you would agree with that, no? Although, I saw you shaking your head a little bit.
WRIGHT: Crystal?
PINSKY: I beg your pardon. Crystal.
WRIGHT: Yes.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Crystal. For some reason you guys` names are confusing to me tonight, but go ahead. Crystal.
WRIGHT: Yes. I know. It is OK. No, Spirit, I do agree with you on that. It is not the way -- that is not the first time she slapped him
upside the head. And, while I would have hoped the discipline, you know -- you should not be with doing this, this is not appropriate behavior.
This is not, you know, the first time she has done it. And, she kept hitting him upside the head, right? And, I guarantee you he probably does
not have a male in the household as a role model.
PINSKY: Right. Right. That is right.
WRIGHT: I know we are talking about -- Well --
PINSKY: And, maybe -- but maybe she would have not need to have done all that had there been a male there, right?
WRIGHT: Well, all I am saying is to Spirit`s point, that is not how you discipline kids.
PINSKY: Right.
WRIGHT: Because specifically for male children, hitting them teaches them violence is the way that they are going to go about life and
negotiate.
PINSKY: Yes. That is right. That is right.
WRIGHT: So it is wrong. But, I think it is interesting she has six kids and we do not hear about daddy anywhere in the picture.
PINSKY: Right.
WRIGHT: Which is exactly what Larry and I were talking about.
PINSKY: Right. And, Larry, I think you would agree with it. But, I feel sorry for this woman that she does not have the dad around. I do not
necessarily blame her, struggling with these kids.
ELDER: Well, that is right. It is a problem. One of the advantages of a dad is financial. It is hard raising a child without a partner who is
out there working.
PINSKY: I could not raise kids without a partner, you know what I mean?
ELDER: Right.
PINSKY: It takes -- you know what I mean? It is so hard to raise kids under any circumstances let alone by yourself.
CLANTON: Let me ask you this, Dr. Drew. Let me ask you this. Would you say that exact same thing to those young kids who were out there in
Kentucky just a few weeks ago who were not black, mind you, most of them, who were doing the exact same thing because their sports team lost, or any
other sports team.
Any time you see folks out there rioting and looting and losing control because their sport teams won or lost. Do you question whether
their fathers are in the home? Do you say it is a black issue or a white issue?
PINSKY: Well, no.
CLANTON: Come on now.
PINSKY: But males that are extra aggressive, I wonder what is going on there. And, Anahita, your thought before we have to wrap it up.
SEDAGHATFAR: I am just a little disappointed hearing that interview. Because when I first saw that footage, I thought she saw her son on the
street and said, "No way, he is not going to participate in this looting and this kind of activity." And, I was all for her hitting him if that is
what she needed to do to knock some sense into him.
PINSKY: But she was worried about him getting hurt.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: She was afraid of that.
SEDAGHATFAR: And I understand that.
PINSKY: She was not saying that he was behaving like an A-hole, he was behaving like somebody, who was dangerously escalating in front of the
cops and something bad could happen. Back with more from Baltimore, more from my panel after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE COMMISSIONER: Because they are 14, 15, and 16-year-old kids out there. Do you want people using force on 14,
15, 16-year-old kids that are out there?
And they are old enough to know better. They are old enough to know not to do those things. They are old enough to be accountable, but they
are still kids, unfortunately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Anahita, Spirit, and Crystal. The curfew in Baltimore takes effect at the top of this hour. It is minutes away. We
are talking, of course, about the riots in Baltimore.
On the phone, I have a law enforcement expert, Sheriff Richard Jones. Sheriff Jones, you actually sent some of your men to Baltimore. Is that a
general trend around the country? People are sending in recruits to help out?
SHERIFF RICHARD JONES, LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERT: That I do not know. We, actually, our people are at the command center in Baltimore as we
speak. And, they are waiting for instructions from the command center.
PINSKY: What are you hearing? What are you hearing, Sheriff Jones? What is the situation like? Are they feeling -- Do they feel like they
have control of things? They feel like it is still out of control?
SHERIFF JONES: No, they are actually hearing that it is kind of a calm right now.
PINSKY: Good.
SHERIFF JONES: But it is just been dark for about an hour, an hour and 20 minutes. There should be plenty of police. There is over 2,000
National Guard there. So, tonight should be different than it was last night.
But, on the other hand, there is also a huge group of people that are on the internet that are probably coming in to the city. And it showed
them, we were watching it on television. You can see them live. They are all standing around. It is almost like they are waiting for something to
happen.
PINSKY: And how do you, sheriff, feel about the way law enforcement handled things in Baltimore? Was this just inevitable, they did the best
they could, or were there some missed steps along the way here?
SHERIFF JONES: I think, you know, we are all second guessing them. I think they done the best they can. It is not like Ferguson. It is a much
larger area they go in. They had a lot of police. They just did not have enough. They went in, they would get one area under control, then they
would move and go to another area. They would get it under control.
They would lose the area they came from. And, then you throw kids on top of it in the beginning. That does put a tough stance on it, you know.
For a policeman to shoot these -- to use lethal force, you know, on adults who are throwing rocks at them or people that are shooting at them is one
thing.
But to know that these are kids out there, it is awful tough. And, they do not know what to do. They are not trained for this. Just as
though they go into a school, Dr. Drew, and there is a shooter in the school. They are actually trained to go in and take the shooter out.
That is very, very tough versus the way it used to be with negotiations. And, when you have got kids involved, everything changes.
And the sad thing with this, is we are all -- all the rest of us are learning now from what they have had to put up with, these kids throwing
bricks.
PINSKY: Sheriff, thank you so much for joining us and thank you for sending your recruits into Baltimore. On the phone I have Trey Yingst,
journalist for "News2Share." He has been in Baltimore for the last couple of days.
And, Trey, I asked you to send me some videos. Is that what I am looking at right now, everybody? Who can tell me from the control room
what I am looking at? OK. This is old video you sent before, Trey. And, I believe you sent some new video to us. What is it like there right now?
YINGST: Right now it is very tense. Everyone is waiting to see what is going to happen when the clock does strike 10:00.
PINSKY: We are look at the new video. Trey, I am sorry to interrupt, but we are looking at the new video you sent, that the helicopter lurking
above and the people standing around the police line. That is a large number of people standing around waiting for the clock to strike. Are they
going to have to evacuate these people when that happens?
YINGST: Well, it is interesting that you are looking at that video. Because in the time that we -- from when we spoke last, I moved to the
other side of the police line, and I would say that there is five to six times as many people as you see in that video waiting on the other side.
So, I mean, the situation here could escalate. It is kind of up in the air right now.
PINSKY: All right, Trey, again, thanks for giving us a report. So, here we are, guys. I mean a lively disagreement. We are not solving any
problems tonight. I believe -- Anahita, I want to get your thoughts on this.
I believe the Baltimore mayor may be in a unique position to show some real leadership here. People seem to like her. She is a very appealing
person. She is in a good position the make a difference here. What would you do if you were in that spot?
SEDAGHATFAR: That is a tough one. Hopefully, she will be able to redeem herself. I know she backtracked on the statement that she made
about giving protesters room to riot, essentially.
PINSKY: Yes, that is over.
SEDAGHATFAR: It is a tough one. But Dr. Drew, I was talking to a friend of my today really quickly. And, he was saying if it were not for
these riots, if it were not for the protesters burning cars, that we would not have change. The media would not be focused on this situation. It is
heartbreaking.
PINSKY: I do not know, guys. I have mixed feelings about that. I am all for civil disobedience that is rational. But civil disobedience that
is random, it just takes out, you know, some opportunities and just strikes randomly at businesses. That is criminality. That is not civil
disobedience. Take a quick break, be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I am back with Anahita, Spirit and Crystal. We are talking about the latest in Baltimore as curfew approaches. I have got from each
of you, I am going to set a stopwatch for 30 seconds. I am going to start across the board, wrap up. Anahita, go.
SEDAGHATFAR: There has to be a better way, Dr. Drew. Looting, burning down buildings, burning down cars is not the solution. And, I am
going to quote President Obama and what he said today during his speech. "Looting is not protesting. It is theft. Burning down cars and buildings,
that is not protesting. That is arson."
PINSKY: Thank you so much. And, now -- it is a good 18 seconds, well done. Crystal, you are next.
WRIGHT: Yes. I would like to give congratulations to Republican Governor Larry Hogan, who called in the National Guard, who is actually
moving his offices to Baltimore temporarily to deal with the problem because he is actually a white republican governor, who is not afraid to
get in there and protect black people like he protects all of Maryland. So, I say kudos to Governor Hogan. He actually went out there when he ran
last year and he asked for the black vote. He cares about black Americans. This is a good thing.
PINSKY: 30 seconds exactly. OK, go ahead there, Spirit.
CLANTON: Dr. Drew, I just want the say to everybody that is in Baltimore and around this country that our hearts are with you. We have to
understand the frustration of people of all races, who feel disempowered and disenfranchised.
And until we continue to have real conversations about what it is going to take to make people feel safe and connected and a part of the
communities that they live in, we will continue to have this problem. We have to become proactive instead of being reactive. And, that is what we
are seeing in Baltimore tonight.
PINSKY: And, there we go. Listen, everybody, we can all make a difference, every single one of us. Get in there, make a difference. If
there are kids at risk, it is upon us to make sure those kids do not become a part of the problem.
A single sustained relationship with any of us can make all the difference in the world. Commit yourself to your families. Do not let
them down. That is your number one job in life. Let us do that, everybody. And, those of you in positions of leadership, lead! Lead, tie
us together. Do what great leaders have always done. We need you now more than ever.
OK, guys, thank you, panel. I have got a programming note. The next HLN original is called " #RedFlag." And, it shows the role of social
media, the role it plays in mental illness in this day and age.
It follows two families as they struggle through some difficult situations. Andrew expresses his pain on social media. Here we meet
Andrew, who is struggling from depression precipitated from a suicide in his family. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW: My name is Andrew. I am 21 years old. Growing up, I had the all American family. I have three brothers. Brian, he was the oldest
brother, followed by Mike, then Matt and then me. As I was growing up, me and Mike had more of a close relationship than my other brothers. Our
moods would really affect each other a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: They -- they got along great. They just -- they always did.
ANDREW: Five years ago, my brother Michael committed suicide at the age of 24, by the way of a gun at a shooting range. Ever since then, my
family has just -- it has not been the same.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We will cut. You can follow Andrew`s story by watching the premier of "#RedFlag." That is right here on HLN, Tuesday, May 5th, 9:00
P.M. eastern. Part of our mental health awareness campaign.
I will be very active in this. This if you have ever wondered about mental health, this is an interesting story you will learn a great deal
about it. You will also learn about how social media figures into this. "#RedFlag."
Now, I want to give you a live picture of Baltimore right now. And, everyone, let us keep our thoughts with the people of Baltimore. We heard
from Trey there on the ground that there is a large crowd accumulating in front of that police line.
And, we just hope that they disperse peaceably when the curfew hits. The curfew will hit in about 30 seconds. So, my hope is the police do not
have to take action, that people will on their own peaceably disperse. DVR us, then you can watch us any time. The show that follows our program is
"Keywords" show is up next.
END
