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Baltimore Report Expected Friday; Zero Tolerance in Baltimore; Presidential Hopefuls talk Baltimore; Death Toll Expected to Climb in Nepal; Baltimore's Mother of the Year. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 29, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00] BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And the attorney general can do one of two things. Either the AG can decide on its own to prosecute one or more police officers or it can turn it over to a grand jury and allow the grand jury to render an indictment or decide not to indict. That's the process. I'm a little bit baffled, though, Carol, as to what exactly is going to be released on Friday because it's not customary to be releasing this information in advance of the attorney general making a decision.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we don't know how much of that investigative report will be made public. We just know that the police department will turn over its report to prosecutors. So I mean the city is a tinderbox right now.

CLAYPOOL: Right. And that poses a problem, Carol --

COSTELLO: Wouldn't it be smart to -- uh-huh, go ahead.

CLAYPOOL: Yes, yes, Carol, that poses a real problem because people want answers, not only in Baltimore, I want answers. This isn't just a black issue. I'm a white guy in California and I'm marching on Saturday in front of city hall in Los Angeles in support of the people in Baltimore. We all want answers because Freddie Gray was subjected, Carol, to three different constitutional violations. That's why people are so outraged. He was a young man doing nothing wrong, minding his business, and he looked the wrong way and ran. All of a sudden he's in handcuffs. You've got officers on his back. And in my opinion, they crushed his spine.

And, Carol, I have one more point that I'm not sure a lot of folks have talked about. How is it possible that Freddie Gray sustained this injury in the van when he doesn't have any other cuts or abrasions or tearing of his clothing? It's not possible in my mind that he gets a severed spine in that van because he would have had more injuries to his -- you know, manifested as a result of being in the van.

COSTELLO: Well, I -- I don't know whether -- I don't -- Brian, I don't even know -- I don't know if we can say that with certainty because the autopsy report hasn't been made public, all of it yet, because the state is doing that.

CLAYPOOL: You're -- you're making a good point, though, Carol, because what's going to happen Friday is you're going to get bits and pieces of information. And then what's everybody going to do? They're going to be like, what about this? What about the maneuvers that the police used on his back? What about the witnesses inside the van? What about the two witnesses that saw him outside the van? What about, for example, Carol, the 40 minutes that went by from when Freddie was on the ground to when paramedics had been called?

And I think that is the most aggravating part of this case. You have somebody who is visibly in despair and you don't call paramedics. They take this man to a booking cell, Carol. And I've had cases like this where you have to interview the suspect in the booking center. And how can -- how can -- anybody with a brain, with a set of eyes and with a set of ears would have seen that this man needed medical help. That's why people are outraged, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, well, we'll see what happens on Friday and whether any of that report will be made public. Brian Claypool, thank you so much for your insight. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, some blame zero tolerance for Baltimore's problems. A look at the lingering effects of the controversial police policy, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:37:07] COSTELLO: Some blame the rioting in Baltimore on a zero tolerance policy once followed by police. The former mayor and potential presidential candidate, Martin O'Malley, put zero tolerance into place when he took office in 1999 to target violent crime. Well, the crime rate did go down, but critics say it got out of hand. According to reports, police made more than 108,000 arrests in 2005. That's in a city of 640,000 people. The NAACP and the ACLU sued Baltimore in 2006 alleging 17 peoples arrest were an example of a pattern of abuse in which thousands were arrested without probably cause. The city settled and agreed to retrain its officers, but some say that zero tolerance policy is still in effect. One of the critics of that policy, Andre Perry, joins me now. He's the former dean of urban education at Davenport University.

Welcome, Andre. Thanks for being with me.

ANDRE PERRY, EDUCATION CONSULTANT: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Some would say, you know what, zero tolerance, lots of arrests, but the crime rate went down a whopping 30 percent. So why is that not good -- what is that not a good policy?

PERRY: Well, the crime rate went down all over the country. And when you look at cities that did not have zero tolerance policies, their crime went down as well. So it's hard to attribute that set of -- or range of policies to the crime reduction itself. Believe it or not, people all over the country are not participating in crime. It may be as a result of personal decisions as opposed to these overarching policies.

COSTELLO: Explain to -- explain to my viewers what -- what a zero tolerance policy looks like when it's carried out by police. PERRY: Well, zero tolerance is the vigorous enforcement of lower level

offenses with the -- with the aim of reducing or preventing higher level offenses. So everything from stop and frisk, shop and frisk, walking in a park, getting stopped, all these lower level things, selling cigarettes, lucys (ph) on the street corner, are supposed to curb high level violent offenses. But what we see is that that is not the case in terms of the -- what the research shows. Moreover, community policing in areas that have not shown, that do not do these kind of activities show a reduction in crime.

Moreover, we actually penalize the people for getting in the situations they're currently in. I'll explain. People sell lucy (ph) cigarettes because they're poor. And so when you arrest them, give them court fees and fines, you actually accelerate that -- or increase the opportunity for them to sell cigarettes again. So you're burdening people for the situations that got them into the criminal activity in the first place.

[09:40:14] COSTELLO: On the -- on the other hand, Andre, they're doing something that's illegal, so why shouldn't they be arrested and penalized?

PERRY: Well, the -- clearly you shouldn't be killed for selling cigarettes or walking in a neighborhood. We're removing civil liberties. And so we can argue that this justified set of policies are removing civil liberties. And that is the problem. When -- so it's -- what's ironic about this whole situation and this conversation about thugs and looters, you can easily argue that these policies are taking people's money and literally killing people. And so that's the problem that these policies have gone too far. Crime has reduced, so why continue these policies?

COSTELLO: Andre Perry, thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.

PERRY: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, as the 2016 campaign gathers steam, presidential contenders are weighing in on the riots in Baltimore. Hillary Clinton is about to speak about it. We'll talk about that next.

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COSTELLO: The unrest in Baltimore drawing reaction from 2016 presidential hopefuls. Former Maryland governor and former Baltimore Mayor Martin O'Malley cutting short a European trip to return to the city on Tuesday. And, today, Hillary Clinton will address the situation and criminal justice reform during remarks in New York. These are live pictures -- yes, these are live pictures you're seeing from Columbia University where Clinton is expected to begin her speech any moment now. That man is soon to introduce her.

[09:45:02] Our senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny joins me now with more. Good morning, Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You'e right. Hillary Clinton is going to speak any moment and I'm told she's going to call for an end to the era of mass incarcerations. Now, that is something of a rebuke to her husband's legacy during his time as president, of course, when many cities across the country were cracking down on crime like this.

But aides tell me that she will also say the U.S. should reform its criminal justice system and change the way the country approaches putting people in prison. She'll focus more on alternatives to prison and things like that.

But this is her first policy speech as a presidential candidate, certainly trying to get in front of the Baltimore incident. But she's not the only one speaking out. Senator Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky, he addressed this as well. He's been talking extensively about criminal justice reform. Let's take a listen to what he said yesterday in a radio interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: There are so many things we can talk about, that I think it's something that we talk about not in the immediate aftermath but over time. You know, the break down of the family structure, the lack of fathers, the lack of sort of a moral code in our society. This isn't just a racial thing, it goes across racial boundaries. But we do have problems in our country, and you see this, and you see that we're close to the tipping point -- and closer to the tipping point than many think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: And Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas, he's weighing in, a statement. He had this to say. He said, "Every case deserves justice and the facts surrounding Freddie Gray's death should be thoroughly and impartially investigated, but rioting and mayhem are not the answer."

I think of course all presidential candidates on both sides of the aisle agree that rioting and mayhem aren't the answer, but it's the specific policy proposals that we'll be looking for from all of these candidates.

But Carol, as you said at the beginning, Martin O'Malley, the former governor of Maryland and mayor of Baltimore when many of these practices were put into place, he's been talking about this so much. We're anxious to hear from him. So far he has not spoken about this; he's been meeting with residents from Baltimore. But he perhaps has the most to say. Carol?

COSTELLO: Well, it's interesting that he decided -- where was he? He was supposed to give some speech in London and he decided to come back to Baltimore to talk to community leaders? And at some point I guess he will be making some sort of comment?

ZELENY: He was. He was actually supposed to be out of the country all week on a series of paid speeches. He decided to come back. His aides were very aware of the perception of him not being around. But so he was on the streets last evening, meeting some people. He was heckled a bit, but he has not yet addressed this.

So he has used his crime record in Baltimore as kind of a centerpiece of his policy proposal, so he'll of course have to adjust that a bit, but he has so far declined our request for an interview. We hope to hear from him soon.

COSTELLO: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. I'll be right back.

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[09:51:56] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Poppy Harlow, joining you from New York. We'll get back to Carol live in Baltimore in just a moment.

But first we want to bring you the latest on how Nepal is coping after that devastating earthquake and avalanche. We have dramatic video of a rescue of a man who was trapped in that rubble for four days. It is incredible. It is remarkable that he made it out alive.

But for many others, the situation remains perilous. You can see how bad the devastation is. These are drone images shot over the capital of Nepal, Kathmandu. The death toll is now 5,031 and it still is expected to go higher. Torrential rains have triggered landslides north of the capital. 200 people now feared missing from one of those landslides.

Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me from Kathmandu. Sanjay, to you. You have seen it all firsthand. UNICEF is saying a million children there need help, but amid all of the chaos, all of the death, there are some miracles.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: There really are. I think UNICEF has now upped that number to 1.7 million children, Poppy. This is a young country; there are a lot of young children. There children under the age of five who need help, they need special nutrition.

But there are remarkable recoveries. A 4-month-old baby, Poppy, I don't know if saw these pictures, these images, but unbelievable -- 22 hours plus under rubble. And they thought this baby had died, and then they heard crying and they went and found this baby and the baby had no internal injuries, is expected to do well. It ignites urgency and it ignites hope. It's just so remarkable.

There was a man, 27 years old, he was trapped under the rubble for 80 hours. They found that he was alive and even as they were continuing to dig him out over ten hours, they put in an IV, gave him oxygen, it's just incredible work that's going on.

And I think now that we're four days out, the odds, you will hear from experts, go down significantly in terms of survival. But when you hear stories like that, there is that igniting of urgency. We're going to be out on a helicopter ourselves tomorrow to some of these more remote areas for some of these rescues. There are people out there right now, Poppy, who are still under rubble who can be saved. And that's got everyone really, really moving fast and in an urgent way.

HARLOW: And I know, as you said, by helicopter tomorrow you're going to see some of these remote areas. That's been a big concern. How much higher could the death toll go given those remote areas that people have not been able to access yet?

Sanjay, thank you very much. Appreciate the reporting. We're going to head back to Carol Costello in Baltimore after a quick break.

[09:54:36]

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COSTELLO: A lot of people are talking about the Baltimore mother who saw her son taking part in the riots here in the city on Monday and did something about it. This is Toya Graham. She administered some tough love, all caught on national television, and got her 16-year-old son Michael out of there.

Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the one moment from the chaos in Baltimore that had people cheering for more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mother of the year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I leaped out of my chair and said yes!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was captivated.

MOOS: Captivated by a Baltimore mother reading the riot act to her 16-year-old son. To remove him from the riot -

TOYA GRAHAM, MOTHER: You walk here doing this stuff. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) over here.

MOOS: We know her name is Toya Graham and she's a single mom of five girls and a boy. Here's what she told CBS News about her brand of tough love.

GRAHAM: That's my only son. And at the end of the day, I don't want him to be a Freddie Gray.

MOOS: The Baltimore man whose death in police custody sparked protests.

Her tough discipline won muttered admiration and outright applause.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG, ABC HOST: A mother desperately trying to keep her son from joining the rioters. And you know she won.

(CHEERS & APPALUSE)

MOOS: She quickly started to trend on Twitter, #baltimoremom. She went to pick up her son at the mall because she heard trouble was brewing there.

GRAHAM: He said, Mom, when I seen you, my instinct was to run. I'm a no tolerant mother. He knew he was in trouble.

MOOS: The video was shared and analyzed from the right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, look, right there is the moment I think just gripped my heart.

MOOS: And the left.

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Here's a kid will take a brick and throw it at the cop, but ducks when his mother comes to slap him.

GRAHAM: Is he the perfect boy? No, he's not. But he's mine.

MOOS: "Send In The Moms" read one headline. Maybe you really are the mother of all moms when you can inspire this kind of look in your tough guy son.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[10:00:02] COSTELLO: She's so awesome.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.