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Dr. Drew
Large Protests Under Way In Major American Cities, New York, Boston, Washington; Mom Who Sees Her Son In The Middle Of All The Chaos In Baltimore This Monday Night, And She Is Not Very Happy; Anderson Cooper Interview With Toya Graham And Her Son; Rival Gangs Apparently Come Together In Baltimore To Help Keep The Peace; The Word, "Thug" Is Getting A Lot Of Attention This Week; Congressman Elijah Cummings Is Out In Baltimore And He Is Also Trying To Calm The Crowd
Aired April 29, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:07] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW: And, we begin with breaking news in Baltimore and across the U.S., large
protests under way in major American cities, New York, Boston, Washington. And, we are one hour away from tonight`s curfew. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (1): And, they are banging on the shields to let you know they are coming. Here comes some objects, coming down
toward them. Bottles. Couple of rocks. And, they are moving a line up here. They are doing that step and drag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (2): Law enforcement did enforce that 10:00 P.M. citywide curfew and fired smoke canisters to disperse some
protesters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: What Martin Luther King Jr., did my dear was an uprising. What is going on the streets of Baltimore is
a disgrace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Things are way better than they were and we have turned a corner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
I am sorry, you had to take a transient negative event to get all eyes on Baltimore city. But, now they watching, let us give them something good
to look at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Sam Schacher from "Pop Trigger" on Hulu.com., Spirit, Psychotherapist; Jennifer Keitt, life coach and CNN Correspondent,
Miguel Marquez in Baltimore. Miguel, do we have -- there you are. Miguel, what is the latest?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, the latest is the curfew tonight seems to be running a little more smoothly than last night. There
were several protest that started at different locations, came down to city hall. This is police headquarters here, you can see how heavily armed up
and how many personnel they have here.
The streets blocked off to police headquarters. The city hall is also blocked off with lots of National Guard and lots of police in this area.
Some people out in the street, here are a couple of you guys, I know from the Pennsylvania and north avenue today. You are going to get home for the
curfew?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Yes, I am going to get home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Definitely.
MARQUEZ: Reporter: what is it like in a city that is under curfew?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): It is surreal. Like, you would have to be here to feel it, but I think it is great that we have a curfew right
now.
MARQUEZ: You came down to city hall today because there was a protest, they walked for some time, why come out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Came down here from the first day of work for Freddie Gray. This is just a terrible tragedy that is happening.
We are going to continue to fight. And the kids -- the kids, the youth needs us. The youth really needs us right now.
MARQUEZ: That is the sense here. The protesters here have gotten more organized, more coordinated, and they have a stronger sense of it. I
think within the next couple of days, we are going to have the testing of the government here, and the police to a much greater degree.
Tomorrow there may be some more marches. Friday, there is a great expectation of the police report that is going to be handed up to the DA,
while there is expectation that we will hear something or know something more about that report then.
It is not clear that we are going to know a heck of a lot more, if anything. Then on Saturday, here at city hall, there is going to be yet
another protest rally for city hall here. And, that means to be some events after and that may be a very serious test for the city here.
PINSKY: Great, Miguel. Thank you. Great report, thank you so much. Jennifer, I do not want to be Pollyanna-ish. I mean, obviously, the
violence of this thing got all of our attention. Of course, it is across the media.
But, those two guys that Miguel just interviewed, to me, I want those guys to step up and lead. I want to hear what they have to say. I am
tired of the guys expressing violence. I want to hear these guys.
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: I agree with you, wholeheartedly. I think until we can find our voice -- I am so glad you said that as a matter
of fact, because that is the voice to me that is missing in this whole struggle that we see that is across the United States now. We are not
hearing from the youth.
We are not hearing from young African-American men. We are not hearing from those people who are most frustrated, most oppressed, who are
causing all kinds of angst because they are so frustrated and angry. I agree with you. It is time to hear from them now.
PINSKY: Yes. And, Spirit, you know, you and I last night got into it. And, again, not being pollyanna-ish, not trying to diminish the
frustration of people that feel oppressed, but there is opportunity for leadership from young men like that.
I am dying to hear what they have to say. I want to see them step up. I am glad they are out there. And, they are leading by just go obeying the
curfew now. And, then tomorrow, let us get out there and talk some more.
SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. And, you know, Dr. Drew, what I would submit to you is that they have always been out there. But, you
have to remember, that is not good entertainment.
PINSKY: Well, I know that --
CLANTON: And, so, what we constantly say --
PINSKY: I understand, but they got our attention. They got it. OK. Job done. Now, let us get to leadership from the people we really want to
hear about.
CLANTON: But, that is the point. Even yesterday, there were thousands more protesters who were peacefully assembled. There were
thousands more individuals who were holding hands, standing there trying to express themselves.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: But that is not what they wanted to portray. So, now it is time for the media to step up and do the right thing as well.
PINSKY: All right. Well, that is why we heard from those guys. Now, Samantha, I want you to look at this video. It is the one that everyone is
talking about. It is a mom who sees her son in the middle of all the chaos, this is on Monday night, and she is not very happy.
There she is. She is -- she is expressing dissatisfaction towards her son. She has Toya there. Toya Graham has six kids. That is her only son.
And, is she the mom of the year, Sam or we got some questions about her parenting?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: Well, all right, Dr. Drew, you have talked about it on the show. You say that
corporal punishment in no situation is ever OK, and I agree with that. Now, I do understand that this is. I cannot even relate, OK? And, this is
where I want to go with this.
Because I do not know what it is like to grow up in East Baltimore. I do not know what it is like to feel oppressed or to feel like that my life
does not matter. I do not know what it is like to be harassed or targeted or to be a single mother with all of these conditions around them.
And, so, I can just imagine when a situation like this, with Freddie Gray, OK, which was not an isolated incident, happens, everything is going
to be heightened. And, some people are going to lash out. And, I am sure that mother feared that her son would be another Freddie Gray.
So, I just think if we can come from a place of understanding and empathy, not only with the people, the residents of East Baltimore and
Baltimore, but also these police officers who are also risking their life. We can bridge that gap, then we can build on solutions.
PINSKY: All right. And, Jennifer, I know you want to ring on this. You and I have had words about this. Let me --
KEITT: Yes, we have.
PINSKY: Let me start -- Let me start with this. Let me start with this. Personally, what Toya did here, I am so delighted with, I can
barely contain myself. Now, as an individual, as an individual, she did exactly what I would have liked to have done to that guy for being out
there behaving the way he did.
Now, the question though becomes, is that good parenting? And, it is debatable in a situation like that because she got to get him to stop. He
could get hurt. He can do something terrible and get arrested.
KEITT: Dr. Drew, that could have just as easily been me, and I make no bones about it. I have one son too. I do not know the struggle life of
being a single mom, but if I ever saw my son out there breaking the law, I would break his behind just like she did.
I call her mother of the year, I know you and I do not see eye to eye on that, but in that situation, she did exactly what she should have done
and she did exactly what I would have done. She told him not to go down there. She told him not to express himself that way.
And, he went down there anyway, are you joking? She did exactly what I think every mother, who cares, that is, I know it does not look like it,
maybe from the surface, but that is love, Dr. Drew. That is love right there.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I am laughing because, I do see concern and fear --
KEITT: I know.
PINSKY: -- and I do believe she loves her son. Give you a second, Spirit, to answer, But I first want you to watch Toya graham, this is her
interview with Anderson Cooper today. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST OF "ANDERSON COOPER 360" SHOW: And you -- when you saw your mom --
MICHAEL SINGLETON, TOYA GRAHAM`S SON: Right.
ANDERSON: When you first made eye contact, what went through your mind.
SINGLETON: I was just like, "Oh man," like --
(LAUGHING)
ANDERSON: You were like, "Oh man."
SINGLETON: "My mother." "What is my mother doing down here?" Like, "Why would she be down here." When I heard, "Put that brick down." I was
like, "Oh, that is my mother."
ANDERSON: So, what could you think when you heard that voice?
SINGLETON: I was like, "Oh yeah, I know that is my mother." I know it is my mama. Ain`t nobody else talk like that but my mother.
ANDERSON: When you saw Michael with a rock in his hand and you say, you just lost it.
TOYA GRAHAM, MICHAEL SINGLETON`S MOM: I did. And, you know, once he threw that rock down, I was like, "You know, you was not brought up like
this."
ANDERSON: Did you, did you worry about embarrassing him in front of - -
GRAHAM: Not at all.
ANDERSON: Not at all.
GRAHAM: Not at all. He was actually embarrassing himself.
ANDERSON: Did he go home then?
GRAHAM: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, he went home with me.
(LAUGHING)
ANDERSON: I had no doubt about that.
GRAHAM: Yes. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, Spirit, I misspoke, I think her name is Toya and not Tanya. But, you know, shame, embarrassment, all good. I want him to be
ashamed and diminished by what he was doing out there. He should be ashamed. He was covering his face.
But you know, listen, striking kids. I mean, getting a teenager to stop a dangerous behavior. OK, but could this have been a pattern
throughout the guy`s childhood through this young man`s childhood? And, where is the dad? Huh? Poor woman is got six kids, what else she got,
except whatever she can do to get this kid under control?
SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it is tough. And, you heard me say this last night, Dr. Drew, and I took a lot of flak for it, by I
stand by it. There is a better way to parent.
PINSKY: Of course. Always, always, always.
CLANTON: And, you know -- But we have this thing in therapy called cultural competency. And, that is understanding the cultural connection,
and understanding the comprehensive, the whole thing of why people come to be the way that they are.
PINSKY: Right.
CLANTON: And so when you look at discipline, when you look at corporal punishment and the history of that in the African-American
community, going all the way back to how we first came to be here, we understand that African-American mothers are looking to make sure that
their sons stay in line.
Because the history of black men in this country who assert themselves, who stand up for themselves, they have been at greatest risk
for harm and it still happens across the board every day in the country.
PINSKY: And, somebody raised something to me this week, just today in fact, that said, "Well look, one of the greatest criticisms that people
have of parents that do not, well, of young people generally today, and perhaps the criticism is parents that do not get a little more
authoritative or authoritarian even, is the kids do not respect adults so much or they do not care or feel entitled, feel more entitled than perhaps
the people they should be very respectful of. And, the respect is not there, the fear is not there that we may need to indoctrinate a little bit.
I do not know --
CLANTON: That was great though. This was a great teaching moment. Because what I saw was a young man who was looking to express himself. His
mother told him, "Do not go, but he felt the need to be out there, even though he did not understand why."
They were both out there to do the exact same thing, and it was a great opportunity to say, "Son, I am happy that you are driven to protest.
I am happy that you are willing to rage against injustice, but let me teach you how to do it." She was just in panic mode. She was in fear of life.
PINSKY: Yes. I think, Spirit -- You are right.
CLANTON: And, so what you saw is her reaction out of fear.
PINSKY: But we have got to take a break. Next, c. Is it something - - Should it be receiving -- the moniker, should it be called a racial slur or something different? Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, BALTIMORE MAYOR: The difference between those protests and the thugs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Handful of criminals and thugs who tore up the place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARL STOKES, BALTIMORE COUNCILMAN: Of course, it is not the right word to call our children, "Thugs."
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGA ANALYST: That term has been racialized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: They know it is wrong to steal and burn down a CVS and old person`s home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STOKES: So, calling them thugs -- just call them (EXPLETIVE WORD). Just call them (EXPLETIVE WORD). No, we do not have to call them by names
such as that.
BURNETT: Well, I would hope that I would call my son a thug if he ever did such a thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with breaking news. Sam, Spirit, Jennifer, the curfew in Baltimore is 45 now minutes away. Now Spirit, even the president
is calling the rioters, thugs, is that appropriate? And I -- can we go straight ahead to defining the term thug.
It actually means -- it comes from an ancient -- No, not ancient. A 200-year-old term, means a ruffian or assassin. A member of a religious
organization of robbers and assassins in India. First used in 1810. So, it originally was a Hindi term.
Then when I was a kid, Spirit, it was something people used to describe sort of a specifically a Caucasian, ethnic, pugilistic guy, and
then with -- do we have a picture of - was it Tupac who tattooed thug life on his abdomen, and that is when it became racialized or it became
connotative of African-Americans. There we go.
So, who cares? It has been used around for a long time. I think we know we are talking about people that behave criminally. I keep hearing
people say, "Well, about after a sports event, you know, after Ohio state wins a football game, there is cars turned over. Yes, those are thugs
too." In fact, I have a worse term for them, I call them drunken maniacs. OK. Why cannot we just call these things what they are, Spirit?
CLANTON: Well, because what is happening, Dr. Drew, as you heard many of the individuals say in that piece that you just played, it is becoming a
racialized term. Where you are not hearing thug be used in equilibrium across the board whether it is, you know, the white kid who are turning
over cars --
PINSKY: So what? So, now it connotates -- So, now the white guys are maniac and the African-American kid is a thug -- what difference it make?
CLANTON: Well, what they are stating is --
PINSKY: These are people behaving criminally.
CLANTON: No. What they are saying is that thug is now becoming the undertone for the "N" word. It is the replacement. So, we cannot say the
"N" word because that is the pejorative, and we know the negative connotation for that.
So, I will not call these black men, thugs anymore -- I will not call them the "N" word anymore. I will just call them thugs and we will all
know exactly what we mean.
PINSKY: Sam, maniacs, drunken maniacs -- are you getting what I am trying to say here?
SCHACHER: No. I disagree with you.
PINSKY: Do you got other term for me? Go ahead.
SCHACHER: I completely disagree. First of all, with Tupac, he meant it as, -- if I remember the quote correctly as I speak, I was a huge Tupac
fan. He mentioned to somebody that grew up on the streets, rose above the streets, and became a success. Like an American dream --
PINSKY: That is what he meant by it?
SCHACHER: That is what he meant by it. I hope that one of the producers could find that quote, somehow. And, I am sure I am interpreting
it within my own terms, but he did not mean it as the way that Spirit is suggesting.
And I read -- I read all the comments all the time, Dr. Drew, on YouTube, on Twitter, on Facebook, and the only time I see when thug is used
in a derogatory way, is when it is about young, black males and black criminals.
PINSKY: No. I understand.
SCHACHER: You do not see that with white males.
PINSKY: No. No, I understand, but it has a historical Orrick to it.
SCHACHER: But, now it is racialized.
PINSKY: And, now has the connotation.
SCHACHER: But now people are offended.
PINSKY: But before it was a white guy, now it is a black guy.
SCHACHER: But people are offended now.
PINSKY: Why now it is offensive? Jennifer, help me, why is it now offensive? Why was not it offensive when it was connoting a white guy or
why would not it be offensive if it was connoting a Hindi guy?
KEITT: I think because -- because I think that right now we have now linked it completely with the black subculture. And, I think that it is
where it is really --
PINSKY: What is that? Define them. So, what are we talking about? Describe that guy another way. Because I want to understand what we are
talking about. If somebody says they are criminals, they are thugs.
KEITT: OK -- No. So what I think what is being, what is being espoused is that young, African-American males who are criminally involved
or doing criminal behavior --
PINSKY: OK, all right, got you so far.
KEITT: OK.
PINSKY: That is something, that is a person.
KEITT: What they said, is that they are thugs.
PINSKY: OK. What else do we call them?
KEITT: But, when you look -- well, you can call them criminals. You can call them deviants.
PINSKY: OK.
KEITT: You can call them wayward teens.
PINSKY: OK.
KEITT: You can call them angry men.
PINSKY: OK. I like that.
KEITT: There is a whole bunch of other terms.
PINSKY: OK, let us go.
KEITT: But, I think that when the word thug is really --
PINSKY: Let us invent one. Let us invent one.
KEITT: That thug is really pushing on buttons, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I know that.
KEITT: You cannot just ignore it.
PINSKY: No. I do not ignore it. I just want -- I do not like to walk on egg shells because of words.
CLANTON: You guys have not expanded it. You are missing -- see, what is happening is, if it was just that, then people could deal with that.
Because even in the black community, those thugs, we can deal with that. But what is happening is this
is becoming a blanket statement for all black men.
KEITT: Yes.
PINSKY: No.
CLANTON: Not just those who are -- yes.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, we saw it with Trayvon Martin --
CLANTON: Dr. Drew, I need you to wake up today. Let me school you today.
PINSKY: School me.
SCHACHER: Yes. We saw it with Trayvon. People call him a thug.
PINSKY: School me. School me
CLANTON: That is right. That is what is happening. This is what is becoming the term for all young black youth. Before you even know if they
have a criminal record. You see three black men walking down the street, the assumption is "Look at those thugs over there."
PINSKY: All right.
CLANTON: "Let me grab my purse. Let me lock my car doors."
PINSKY: All right. Well, you are persuading me.
CLANTON: "They are up to no good, simply because they are black young males."
PINSKY: OK. I am being persuaded, but I want a term that helps me understand who those guys are out there rioting that --
CLANTON: That is the case.
PINSKY: -- I know they are somewhat criminals. Do we still have Trey Yingst out there? He is a journalist for News2share.com. It is a website,
News2share.com. He is walking around on the streets of Baltimore right now. Trey, I see you doing a selfie video. Where are you right now?
TREY YINGST, REPORTER FOR NEWS 2 SHARE: Right now I am at the intersection of West North street and Pennsylvania avenue --
PINSKY: How is it looking?
YINGST: -- in Baltimore.
PINSKY: How does it look?
YINGST: Tonight it looks very calm. The scene around here is completely different than last night. Last night we had a lot of
protesters already in the street at this time. Right now, we really only see national guardsmen, and we see police officers. I do not really see
any protesters at this point.
PINSKY: Can you flip your camera around and show me what you are seeing there? What the sort of scene looks like to somebody who came out
and how these guys are going to -- OK.
YINGST: And if we look down, we have some police officers lining up. And this is actually the first time within the past ten minutes they have
actually brought out the riot shields. I had not seen them up until this point. So, they are prepared, if anything were to go wrong. But this
point, things seem very calm.
PINSKY: Trey, get me back to what you were seeing there. Am I seeing National guard, like armored vehicles or something? It was hard to make
out what exactly that was.
YINGST: Humvee is here.
PINSKY: There we go.
YINGST: There is about four of them. You might be able to see across the street there.
PINSKY: Right. Yes.
YINGST: Yes.
PINSKY: All right my friend. Well, thank you. Stay safe, mind the curfew, and we are appreciate your reporting for us, OK.
YINGST: Thank you.
PINSKY: All right, buddy.
Next up, rival gangs apparently come together in Baltimore to help keep the peace. You are going to call those guys thugs? What are you
going to call those guys, right? I think Spirit`s point is well taken. So, if they can do this once, how come we cannot sustain that? We will
talk about that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF RICHARD JONES, LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERT: when you have got kids involved, everything changes. And the sad thing with this, is we are all -
- all the rest of us are learning now from what they have had to put up with, these kids throwing bricks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE COMMISSIONER: Do you want people using force on 14, 15, 16-year-old kids that are out there? They are old
enough to be accountable, but they are still kids, unfortunately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Kids are the ones who are acting out in that manner, but right now the children are going out because they have
no recreation parks
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): And they are angry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): It is a lot of anger, it is a lot of people that just want things to change in this city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with our breaking news, I have got Sam, Spirit, Jennifer, and several people have commented, Sam, on Twitter that you are
correct, and you schooled me properly. I want to show you the urban dictionary definition of thug.
Let us put that up full screen if we could here. It is just what you said. A word evolved by the late Tupac Shakur, commonly mistaken for a
criminal. Thug life is the opposite of someone having all he needs to succeed when you have nothing, when you have overcome all obstacles.
SCHACHER: Yes. Tupac was very wise, very poetic.
PINSKY: So, there you go. So, is not it funny how we --
SCHACHER: Let us just not further marginalized a group that already feels marginalized and that is how they feel when people call them that.
PINSKY: I am persuaded. I am persuaded that we need to adjust our language. I think you guys are right. Alfonso Rachel joins us now. He is
a social commentator at PJTV.com.
Now, reportedly gangs had declared open season on police, ultimately came together last night, and here now, Alfonso, I am going to show you
what they told Don Lemon, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, HOST OF CNN TONIGHT: What is really going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Unity. The unity between all of these rivals that would not be together standing right here right now.
LEMON: When you see the stuff that happened with the looting and the fire or whatever, is that gang-related? Who is that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): No. That is not gang-related. We have nothing to do with that. We are the ones out here that is trying to
bring peace and stop everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): It makes us look bad, man, because that is not the cause.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): We are not worried about looting because we like money. We make money to get whatever we want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): We are not out here trying to say that we are saints.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Alfonso, what are your thoughts?
ALFONSO RACHEL, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I am glad to hear that they have got -- that they can agree on a truce. And,we heard that often. It is
unfortunate these truces do not seem to last. And, in terms of rival gangs coming together, what I would like to hear is former gang members coming
together. I would be impressed with that. Because if you do not want to be seen as a gang banger, you might want to stop being in a gang.
PINSKY: So, but a lot of the guys that get out do end up being of service and helping other guys. Do you think they would welcome those guys
that are sort of helping people get out of gangs as a part of this truce?
RACHEL: I can see where it makes it easier to relate to them, you know?
PINSKY: Right.
RACHEL: It is like a cultural connection that they have.
PINSKY: Right.
RACHEL: But if you are going to try to lead somebody out of the gang lifestyle, it is kind of difficult for me to get my mind around the logic
of saying, "Hey, you want to get out of this lifestyle."
PINSKY : Yeah.
RACHEL: Meanwhile, I am flagging you as a gang member.
PINSKY: Right.
RACHEL: You know what I am saying. "OK, if you want know get out of that lifestyle, how about you drop the colors of that lifestyle. And, then
we can really have a consistent conversation."
PINSKY: I want to show you guys some more from these gang members talking to Don Lemon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Police state where every day we come out, we being harassed by the police, man, they checking out private areas,
public areas. It is just out of hand.
LEMON: It was said that all of the people who -- that it all started because gang members said, we are going to riot, we are going to loot --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): That was said my social media. That was said by the commission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jennifer, I am wondering if there is an alternative motive. I find it confusing. Is it common enemy that is pulling everyone together,
you think?
KEITT: I am just as confused as you are. What the gentleman just said, to me, makes perfect sense. We need to elevate the conversation
right, which means we have to come from this perspective that we are going to try to understand.
We are going to try to cooperate. We are going to try to get to solutions, and I do not know how we can do that if we are -- if we are in
lifestyles that are contrary to where we are trying to go. That is my only concern. It is a confusing type of message.
PINSKY: Well, it is the only thing they see as an option. Spirit, what do you say?
CLANTON: Well, I say it is a two-fold thing, Dr. Drew. If you want to lift individuals up out of this lifestyle, then you have to offer them
something else.
PINSKY: Right.
CLANTON: Many of them, this is the closest thing to family and camaraderie that they know.
PINSKY: Absolutely.
CLANTON: And, so you asked the question about is this a situation where there is a greater common enemy. That is exactly what is happening.
I equate this to what happened to the United States the day after 9/11 --
PINSKY: 9/11. Yes. I thought the same thing.
CLANTON: Think about what happened. We all came together. It was about being American. It did not matter if you were black, white, Asian,
Hispanic.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: We were American, and the common enemy was outside of us.
PINSKY: Sam.
CLANTON: But, then what happened --
PINSKY: Oops, sorry.
CLANTON: Slowly, over time, we drifted right back to where we are.
PINSKY: That is right. That is right. Sam.
SCHACHER: Not only that, Spirit. You brought up the fact that, you know, what opportunity do they have to kind of be lifted up, right? And,
this is also a class issue, because you look at just ten miles away from this epicenter, from east Baltimore, and you have such a different economy.
I mean, the difference is so vast. So, you have the difference of people not being able to get jobs because there are not that many new
businesses. You have no new schools. I do not know when the last time there was a new -- a new school built in, in this proximity, which means no
afterschool programs.
There is not that many athletic programs as well. So, a lot of these kids are left to almost feel oppressed, and in turn we are keeping them
down rather than lifting them up if that makes sense.
PINSKY: Alfonso --
CLANTON: Which is why the conversation --
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. I want to get Alfonso.
RACHEL: -- family, and these -- these youths are looking for some similar of family, and they are depending on a street surrogate. They are
looking for a state surrogate.
PINSKY: Yes.
RACHEL: They are looking for these afterschool problems. The problem of it is, is that there is no intact family unit.
SCHACHER: Right.
RACHEL: There is a total imbalance in the streets, because at the core in their home there is an imbalance.
PINSKY: How do we solve it? What do we do?
RACHEL: That has play outside of your home.
PINSKY: Well, Alfonson, what do we do? It is easy to stay, now what do we do about it?
RACHEL: Let us get away from promoting this lifestyle and celebrating the single mom dynamic. You go girl! It is like, "No, no, this is bad.
This is not something to celebrate." These kids out there are totally confused. They are looking for somebody to play their daddy in the
streets, gang member to play their daddy.
They are looking for the state to play their daddy. They were raised in the schools. This stuff has to stop. We cannot blame this on their
lack of afterschool programs. These kids need a dad who takes them to the park. These kids need a dad who are honorable husbands to their wives.
That is what they need. That is what is missing.
PINSKY: And, statistically though, you are right, Alfonso, but given that the horse is out of the barn so to speak with the kids, do you not
agree that each of us could play a substantial role if we reach out and be a part of and participate in and be of service to any one of these
communities, do you agree?
RACHEL: In terms of being observant, absolutely, but in being a service, it has to stop this patronizing circle of "OK. We are in this
situation. The horse is out of the barn. Now, this is what we are going to do." No, we have to stop and start promoting getting back to the
nuclear family.
PINSKY: Yes.
RACHEL: So, people have a better chance of being, you know, growing up --
PINSKY: Alfonso. I do not understand how people can disagree with you saying that one thing, which is that families are important for
children, they are important for raising healthy children, and they have been that way so long as humans have been in existence, period. End of
story.
So, how can you argue with that? But, the question becomes how do we help with this? Experts disagree about what is wrong. What is wrong with
these cities? How to fix it? We are back with more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLANTON: So, what we are talking about now is a group of individuals who say, "If you want to pay more attention to broken window panes than
broken spines, then you will have to listen to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Young black men going out on a rampage to destroy the city and shut it down. And, that is exactly what
they did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLANTON: And, I am disgusted that Crystal, unfortunately -- that you would make this a black issue.
WRIGHT: It bust a hole into this notion that black men are not creating a lot of crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with breaking news. Sam, Spirit, Jennifer still with me, we of course had a spirited debate, so to speak, between Crystal
Wright and Spirit last night.
CLANTON: Pun intended.
PINSKY: Spirit, indeed deeply intended. Spirit, here is a tweet we got. Spirit is living in a reality that no longer exist where people
protest for equality. People want immediate change. So, I am going to ask you for your thoughts on that. And, I know, you are locked and loaded on
the family conversation we had in the last block, so, go ahead.
CLANTON: Well, you know, for me, I hear those kind of things, Dr. Drew and they roll off like water; because the bottom line is the things
that I am talking about are well studied. We see it happening each and every day. So, we have the right to disagree. I still love you. There is
no harm, no foul.
PINSKY: OK. Sam, go ahead.
SCHACHER: Yes. I wanted to respond to the family statistic Dr. Drew. Because it is true, but we also have to look at the fact that all things
being equal, if you were to take a white drug dealer and an African American, a black drug dealer.
The black drug dealer is going to be prosecuted and charged more likely than the white drug dealer, not only because of the biases, because
their communities are over policed.
There is so many weight to just blanket statements like that, oh, we need to look at like the whole prison system and the privatization of that
and the money involved on that. We would need a whole other show to really get to the bottom of that subject.
PINSKY: Right. And, Jennifer, I see you nodding, ultimately that is what the conversation is been about. Not our conversation here, but the
nature of the conversation in the streets.
KEITT: Well, I think that what we have to do is start with where we are. I mean -- Yes, ideally, we can paint idealistic pictures about having
the wonderful families --
PINSKY: Jennifer, I am sorry. I have got to interrupt you real quick. I got to tell people, we are looking at pictures in New York City
right now. This little action going on there. Then I will just explain that to the viewers, Jennifer, continue, I am sorry.
KEITT: No. No, not a problem. I just think when we start to see video like we are looking at right now, Dr. Drew, that screams to me we
have to start the conversation with right where we are. In communities, bringing in moms and dads.
Bringing in white and Asian and black, making this a national conversation, until we have multiple races, multiple generations, multiple
perspectives at the table, we are always going to continue to see these kinds of eruptions of violence. And it is sad, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: It is sad, I know.
KEITT: We are Americans: We should be able to do better than this.
PINSKY: I agree.
KEITT: We are better than this. Look at that. That is New York City, come on.
PINSKY: Now joining us --
CLANTON: Now, and that is the point.
PINSKY: Hang on. I want to bring someone else in, Bishop E.W. Jackson. He is the founder and president of S.T.A.N.D., Staying True to
America`s National Destiny. He is also a senior fellow with Family Research Council. Bishop, help us with the cities, what does -- where do
we start with a city like Baltimore?
BISHOP E.W. JACKSON, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT OF `S.T.A.N.D.`: Well, look, I think one of the first things we got to do, because I do not know
whether you are hearing this, Washington Post is breaking a story that one of the prisoners in the van is alleging that Mr. Gray tried to hurt
himself.
And, that he was back there basically trying to injure himself. So, I think the first thing we have got to do is get everybody to understand that
we do not have a perfect criminal justice system, but we have got to give it a chance to work its way through before we start tearing things down and
protesting.
You know, this started with the death of Michael Brown. And, even the black attorney general found that all of the allegations that were made and
all of the "Hands up, do not shoot" stuff was simply not true. So, let us start there. Let us start by respecting the fact that our criminal justice
system needs to be allowed to work before people start making assumptions, and taking to the streets and expressing all this anger.
And the second thing I would say is, let us deal with the fact that -- somewhere between 65 and 100 to 1 black men die at the hands of another
black man in the community. Now, I am not minimizing any police misconduct. And,police, when they misbehave, when they exceed their
authorities, they should be punished to the full extent of the law.
But if you want to look at saving black lives, 65 to 100 to 1 in any average year, then you have got to address the issue of black on black
crime and start talking about what we need to do in the community to stop black men from killing one another.
PINSKY: And, Bishop, hang on one second. Are we looking at a fight in the streets? Yes, I got a live picture of a street fight in Baltimore.
Let us go down to Trey, who is still with us. Hold on one second, bishop. Trey, are you seeing what is going on, on the street there? Can you help
fill us in?
YINGST: Yes, I am. I am going to turn the camera here and narrate for you. Right now, there were a group of bloods and cribs in the middle
of the street telling the police to go home. Right now, it looks like they are linking up and still telling the police to go home.
A small fight actually broke out between the two sides, but as you can see right now, they are kind of rushing towards, towards the officers.
And, you have -- If you can look behind me, there are officers putting riot shields on. We are going to turn around here. They are charging these
officers. Things are escalating quickly here. If you can see -- I am going to take you up in frontline.
PINSKY: Are you safe? Are you OK?
YINGST: Yes, I am fine. I am just going to take you there. [ INAUDIBLE ]
PINSKY: OK, Trey, I am going to go to a quick break. Hang on buddy, you are breaking up. We are going to reconnect with you. Go to break, be
right back with more on the story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We are back with breaking news and Sam, Spirit, Jennifer, in about ten minutes, the curfew begins in Baltimore. I am going out now
again in Baltimore. Joining us via Skype -- I am sorry, is it Facetime, Trey Yingst. He is a journalist for News2Share.com.
Trey, are we facetiming with him? How are we getting him? We just lost him. Apparently, we were seeing an evolution of something that looked
a little problematic where some gang members were rushing a line of police.
You see the police now fanning out in some way. Are these live pictures in Baltimore? Yeah, this is live from CNN what is going on. It
is actually some sort of, sounds like an operation. This is WJLA. Sam, go ahead.
SCHACHER: Yeah, just watching this, Dr. Drew. How scary, of course for the residents, but also for the police officers. We have to remember
that they are -- you know sacrificing their lives, and also I remember seeing some footage earlier of residents shielding the police officers.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: I think those are some really powerful moments, just to show that it is not so black and white as police officers are bad and the
residents are bad or vice versa.
PINSKY: OK. Here comes Trey. Trey Yingst, you out there? Can you give us a report?
YINGST: Yes, I am, I am out here right now. Need to put a helmet on. There is a lot of riot police gearing up. I am going to turn the camera
around here so you can see. You can see behind me here, we have a line of riot police that lined up. They are telling everyone to go home.
Congressman Elijah Cummings is out here too. And, he is also trying to calm the crowd.
PINSKY: And. what is it that is happening? You said a couple of gang members had rushed the police. I thought the gang was going to help keep
the peace.
YINGST: First, it looked like they rushed the police, then they tried to explain that they were telling the violent protesters to go home. There
is a group of -- I would say about 40 gang members who are just actually looking for peace here.
PINSKY: OK. That is what our understanding was. They are going to be part of the solution. Now, Spirit, you wanted to commen?
CLANTON: Yes. What I want to explain, Dr. Drew, is that what you have here is escalation with intense emotions.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: Everyone is on pins and needles down there. And the majority of people down there, no matter what side they are on, do not want
to be down there, Dr. Drew. They do not want to be down there, but they do not know what else to do.
And, so what I want people to understand is that when you have nothing to lose, like those minority people down there that would make problems,
that is a dangerous group of individuals.
PINSKY: And --
CLANTON: That is a dangerous group.
PINSKY: And, there is something called the madness of crowds. Humans in groups escalate in way --
CLANTON: Absolutely. Mob mentality.
PINSKY: Yes. But, Trey, give us more. What is going on there?
YINGST: Sure. So, right now, again, like I said, Congressman Elijah Cummings is behind me. He uses a megaphone. And, he is trying to calm the
crowd. But, at the same time, as we are approaching curfew here, I am not sure exactly what time it is.
You can see behind me that we have riot police lined up. They have their shields out, and most of the media in the middle here is gearing up,
putting their helmets on and getting gas masks ready just in case.
PINSKY: And, in case there is tear gas or pepper spray, what is it you are likely to see there?
YINGST: It could be a number of things. The police so far, they have used -- last night, they had smoke grenades as well as pepper balls, which
is basically what the people filled with pepper spray --
PINSKY: Trey, who is voice are we hearing in the background? Is that the congressman?
YINGST: Uh, the congressman --
PINSKY: Oh, I think we are going to lose him.
YINGST: They got their bandana own. They are more people out here you can tell, they have bandannas on, hats on, and they are not here for
the right reasons. And the congressman is trying to talk them down right now.
PINSKY: Fantastic. Trey, please stay safe. Thank you for giving that report the report.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: Let us -- yeah, it is intense, it is sad. You know, it appears that the curfew is a good idea. Anybody on my panel disagree with
that? There was peace kept last night? The police have to do it. They want to execute it. They have done a good job of doing it without hurting
anybody. Right? I mean, we all -- go ahead, Jennifer.
KEITT: I agree with that, Dr. Drew. Bu, what my concern is, is we do not have a way out to talk about this. So, what is going to happen the
next time? Are we going to continue --
PINSKY: We are going to have --
KEITT: Escalation after escalation.
PINSKY: We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: HLN has an old new original series. It is called #RedFlag. I am going to describe that to you, while you watch the video outside in
Baltimore.
Reminder, that one in four adults will be diagnosed with some form of mental illness this year. Many of them will turn to social media, allowing
their private pan to be very public. In this clip Kelly and Andrew, who use social media to cope in very, very different ways.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: I post all day on my social media. I just want to find other people that are bipolar like me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: You all are just making my brain hurt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Get the help and stick with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: She does not do therapy. I would have to move on, and I will choose them over you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW: Five years ago, my brother, Michael, committed suicide. And the first thing I wanted to do was I wanted to end my life. He uses social
media to vent out what he is feeling inside. He is sick. He needs help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It is not your father is fault that things are in this situation.
ANDREW: I got to get out of here. He is a ticking time bomb.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: This is a very powerful hour of television. And, we cannot wait to share it with you. Tune in to " #RedFlag" on Tuesday, May 5th,
only on HLN. Let us go back out to the live footage, if we can, in Baltimore. Do we have that image here?
You see the police preparing to enforce the curfew, which is literally seconds away now. Please, everybody, stay safe, and see the police
helicopter flying by. Let us look at the curfew take hold. It is for the betterment of everybody. It is not to make miserable, it is to keep people
safe.
I am delighted that our leaders are out there on the streets with their constituency. I say hat is off to congressman Elijah Cummings. It
is time for our leaders to step up and do their job, do a good work, get them behind you, lead forward, take the risks, do not put your constituents
at risk. You take the risk on their behalf, or at least with them. Spirit, you want to make one last quick comment. I see you waving at me.
CLANTON: Yes. I want to say real quick, Dr. Drew, for the person -- you know the clip you that showed earlier about the idea of how I like
things --
PINSKY : You broke up now.
CLANTON: Let them go back and look at New York. That footage of New York --
PINSKY: I have got to interrupt. "Forensic Files," starts now.
END
