Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

More Coverage of Events in Baltimore; A Look at Effects on the City of Riots. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 29, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: And where are you and why are they're there?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Hey Ashleigh that's right we have both them actually, we have National Guard over shoulder right here, a few dozen National Guard and police were across the street from the Mondawmin Mall and in front of the Frederick Douglass High School.

Now this is where everything all the trouble started on Monday when kids got out of school, they gathered across the street at the mall and then the deceptions began. And that's what true police off guard.

Now they're preparing for Friday which is when the police are going to turn over their report to the state prosecutor and will decide the state prosecutor will decide whether or not to bring any charges.

Now we don't expect that the police are going to release very much new information to us the public. However there's a lot of expectation on the part of the public as to whether or not they're going to be charges against these police officers. And so what happening today is a city officials, police officials are meeting to try to figure out how to change expectations and lower expectations perhaps. So there's not a repeat of what happened on Monday.

BANFIELD: And then Evan just quickly, the Department of Justice is also keenly interested in what's happening in Baltimore. How intertwined there are these investigators with the DOJ or is it really a separate issue that they're looking at because ultimately they maybe looking at this department too.

PEREZ: Well, you know, that's actually one of the issues. We do know that the Justice Department is doing an independent separate investigation Ashleigh, but they are keenly aware of everything that's going on in the investigation right now on the state level. They're getting all the information that the police is collecting that the state attorney his office is getting. And so they're going to be ready to pursue whatever they going to pursue after the state makes it decision.

We don't expect anything to come from them anytime soon.

BANFIELD: All right Evan Perez, and I'm just looking at the school bus that pulled up behind you. Again it's worth noting that the kids are back in school today after pulled out of school for safety yesterday.

Evan Perez our Justice Correspondent, thank you for that.

There is one thing that we have not heard a whole lot of in Baltimore in the last two days. Criticism of the police. Yeah I said it. They have been widely praised and fed for their restraint and professionalism despite the fact of the riots and the protest, the angry chance (ph) all about overbearing bias killer cops.

So how would they manage to hold back in that broken bottle, broken bones and worse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:36:28] UNIDENTIFIED MALE/FEMALE: (Singing)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Now, that is the moment the Star Spangled Banner being performed unrehearsed by the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra outside of their home, out in the hot sun for a few hundred people who have come out.

Notice only one out about 24 hours ago about this free concert because in their words, everyone needed a little music and on Facebook they were overwhelmed by the number of likes. Just before this program started, over 12,500 likes.

Now, some dichotomy for you, yes Baltimore on the left and also Baltimore on the right. The pictures on the right hand side of your screen markedly different in tone as well, this is a protest outside the State Attorney's Office. No justice, no peace, a constant refrain. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE/FEMALE: No peace, no peace. We want justice, we want justice, we want justice, we want justice. We want to have justice. We want to have justice. We want to have justice. We want to have justice. We want justice, we want justice. We want to have justice. We got to have justice. No Justice, no peace. No Justice, no peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There is perhaps no better exercise of the First Amendment than bringing signs, chanting, and marching outside of a civic office. This is exactly what this peaceful group of protesters is doing in Baltimore. And why this office? Because in just two days a report is expected to land on the desk of the prosecutors inside that building, the report from the police themselves on why and how they believe Freddie Gray died. It was the genesis of so much of what we're seeing in Baltimore right now. But about Baltimore, it does seem at least like some sense of normalcy is returning to Baltimore. We can only hope that it stays, the kids are back in school today, a strong police and military presence does remain in that city and overnight curfew, restoring some order to the troubled streets of Baltimore. There were some peaceful protests before the curfew hit at 10:00 last night. The streets mostly deserted overnight except for hundreds of police and national guardsman.

And Several people did clash with police once the curfew took effect. Pepper bullets and ten arrests ended that violence. Smoke canisters but not tear gas thrown.

Those numbers are sharp reduction compared to the 235 arrests that were made on Monday night and only one police officer was hurt last night but that compares to 20 the night before.

This morning on the Steve Harvey radio program, President Obama was his guest and the President praised the officer's restraint during those riots while chiding those who were choosing to engage in violence.

[12:40:07] And CNN has learned a preliminary police report on the death of Freddie Gray could be in the prosecutor's hand by Friday outside that office where those live pictures were just playing out.

All the while, Major League Baseball is about to hold its first game in the history of the league without any fans actually in the seats. In a couple of hours, Baltimore Orioles are scheduled to play the White Sox but the Camden Yards Stadium will actually be empty. No public.

Pictures of the young people smashing windows and looting stores and destroying cars and rioting in Baltimore certainly disturbing to just about everyone but it's also very hard to watch the standoff too, those tense, tense moments when the protesters and police officers test one another. It's like a staring contest only often times with violence and arrest and chaos if one side blinks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... has turned this entire quiet area. We're being sprayed with mace, we are being sprayed with pepper spray.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE/FEMALE: (Inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: You might not call those the greatest hits or the worst hits, police arresting more than 200 people in one night earlier this week. During last night's curfew, only 10 people were arrested in Baltimore though.

And CNN's Ryan Young is live in Baltimore right now. The scene behind you markedly different, Ryan, I know you did hit some pepper spray though and things were tough. Were you surprised at the restraint that the police showed in the phase of what was sometimes very, very aggressive tactics by protesters?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm actually here with Tom Fuentes. You know, I want to tell you we were here with police most of the afternoon.

But really that line of the protesters created between themselves and police really helped. They call it a love line and we really saw community members talking with police officers trying to coordinate everything to make sure tensions don't raise high. In fact, Tom and I were talking about this just a short time ago the idea that the community plays integral role in this, talked about that yesterday as you watched everything unfold.

TOM FUENTES, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: I think as I watch that what we have to start with this all day seeing a stream of additional police officers and military vehicles. You know, when a national guard arrive, these are soldiers. These aren't police looking like soldiers. These are soldiers been combat in Iraq and Afghanistan and even though you were at the site, I think it was clear that what occurred on Monday would not be tolerated again on Tuesday -- measure which they were, they would act extremely professional, which they did.

But if things went badly like Monday and building started to be burned and looted and people started to be hurt, they had back up on Tuesday that they did not have. And I think that along with the community leaders changed the tides.

YOUNG: We were able to talk to a very nice commander here who seem to have command of his troops. They deescalated everything and now these officers are actually helping to protect this business as they start to clean up. Talk about that in terms of having someone out here on the ground who can talk with the community and the police officers.

FUENTES: Well, when we arrive here the colonel in charge of this group of officers from Baltimore was closer to the CVS which is behind us where you hear the loud preaching coming from. And he said we're going to stand down, we're going to back up, we're going to back off, we're going to have a much lower approach today and hope that the community responds on a peaceful manner.

So that's their intent. That's why these officers, who just an hour ago were in a straight line and in a stiff line have not relaxed, backed off. And as you said, you have a business here with broken glass being fixed. But most of the officers have moved out and they're going to be behind the scenes.

YOUNG: Ashleigh, I do want to point something out. There is a man preaching on the corner. That's the noise that you hear down the way. He has decided to take over the corner where the protesters were. Just yesterday he's preaching.

But one of the things we have to make a point of is the idea that the officers have relaxed here. They have been talking to the community members and they've been having active conversations throughout the day. We've seen a significant change.

BANFIELD: All right, Ryan Young for us, thank you and our thanks to Tom Fuentes as well.

The issue of police brutality in Baltimore, sometimes the city prefers to pay people who sue the city when they're hurt by the police. They say it saves the need expend of a trial and it happened more than a hundred times in the past few years.

[12:45:00] I'm going to talk to a Baltimore reporter how big a problem is this, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Live pictures outside of the office of the state attorney in the city of Baltimore it is also the scene of an ad hoc protest that erupted not too long ago, it is peaceful, there are speakers, they've been marching, they've been chanting, no justice, no peace among other things. The placards are there and that we -- the issue at hand is that this location is significant it will be the site where the report is delivered on Friday from the police officers into what they believe happened to Freddie Gray.

So critical location, critical issue, critical protest, critical voices. These Baltimore riots can be traced back to the police custody death of Freddie Gray, 10 days ago.

The allegations of police brutality in Baltimore are not new, not by any stretch. I want you to look in these statistics if you could, the past four years alone city of Baltimore has settled more than a 100 police brutality cases to the tune of more than $6 million. Talking about lawsuits filed by people with broken bones and shuttled faces, they say at hands of Baltimore Police.

The mayor says that she is actually proud of the figures because she says that these are fewer, fewer instances of lawsuits since she took office.

Mark Puente, dug up that research, he's a Crime and Punishment Reporter for the Baltimore Sun. And he joins me live now.

So Mark I want you to put into context because those are very glaring statistics they found awful when you just announced them without any context. But there is another side of this in which the police and their union and many of the lawyers say, look a settlement doesn't mean things happened they often mean we just don't want to pay for the litigation. And how they give an issue with that side of this argument?

[12:49:59] MARK PUENTE, CRIME AND PUNISHMENT REPORTER, BALTIMORE SUN: Well that is the union in the cities stance in some of them. But some of these cases did get substantial amounts and settlements and jury awards. But the bigger picture with those 102 lawsuit that were settled from 2011 through 2014 is the human told that it is taken under city of Baltimore, is created this tension that the nation and the world is now watching boil over. And if they're saying it's not just of Freddie Gray case it goes back decades.

When a 87 year old grandmother calls for a help because their grandson was shoot outside and next thing you know she's being accused of the shooting in the basement and she's handcuffed and has thrown against the wall and her arms was broken, that's a problem for residents.

BANFIELD: So what about -- and when you talk about the problem I don't think anyone would disagree with you it is a problem when those things happened and they happen everywhere.

But apples to apples, oranges to oranges and being as careful as we can, how does Baltimore compared to other big cities like New York or Chicago or Las Angeles for this very issue.

PUENTE: Well we did an apples to apples comparison we looked at Dallas and a few in Miami-Dade County.

In Dallas, Dallas paid the same amount of money in that same time period but for 26 lawsuits. Baltimore was one 102 for the same amount of money. But the key is, the state of Maryland has a local government terms to reclaim that, that cops damage $200,000 per case. That law has saved Baltimore taxpayers millions of dollars.

BANFIELD: Well Mark it's a difficult...

PUENTE: It would be unfair to the State of Baltimore and New York City.

BANFIELD: Understandable and I think only in percentage and certainly not in the numbers that would be crazy to do so.

Mark its great reading, appreciate you're putting out that information and it definitely bears further analysis as well as the mayor said. She said the numbers are on the decline, interesting to see if that continues.

Mark Puente, live for us. We're back right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Among the casualties of the unrest in Baltimore. And before that Ferguson Missouri where economic assets that just about everybody agrees, these neighborhood need to nurture and not to destroy speaking of course of the businesses, many of them locally owned, that provide goods and services and jobs and pay their taxes. And yet are nonetheless targeted by looters.

Lance Lucas runs Digit (ph) called Digital All Systems. And though his business was not trashed and rob he had to shutdown the whole operation for two days because of the fear that it was going to happen. And Lance you're also a president of Maryland's Black Chamber of Commerce. So I have a tooth fairy in terms of be able to ask you about how your members are doing? Those who've been looted, those who basically have life as they know it, ended. How were they doing, what are they telling you?

[12:55:10] LANCE LUCAS, CEO DIGIT ALL SYSTEMS: Well they're telling me, that they're losing money everyday that they're closed because of the riots that happened. And like any other small business we depend on that money everyday to make sure that we can stand business.

BANFIELD: Are they covered by insurance when they have their businesses robbed, looted, smashed and on occasion burned, I mean what kind of reiteration is there for them?

LUCAS: Well the fortunate thing is, is that they do have insurance but the time they are loosing those resources they don't get those resources back.

My own business was shutdown, our building is a few blocks from the city hall, we couldn't even let people into our building that we had many people cancel appointments that we can get back.

So fortunately we do have insurance but they cannot get those resources, they lost in those days or any of the businesses that were damaged. They have to wait to reopen those doors. So it's very unfortunate because African-American businesses predominantly higher 80 percent of African-American.

This shinning young people could work at the same places that they're destroying right now.

BANFIELD: Well Lance we are certainly thinking of you and for your community members and those within, you know, the Black Chamber of Commerce who've been affected by this. Our hearts go out to you and we'd like to keep in touch with you to see how that community bounces back.

Lance Lucas, thank you.

LUCAS: No problem, thank you very much for the time...

BANFIELD: Thank you, so, you know, we're just is out of time, otherwise I could speak forever to Lance Lucas, he's got terrific information, we'll invite him back on the program.

Thank you so much for watching everyone, my colleague Wolf Blitzer starts right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)