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Super Bowl MVP Ray Lewis Visits Baltimore School; Restoring Trust Between Police and Community; Baltimore Police Commissioner to Hold News Conference. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 30, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:50] RAY LEWIS, FORMER BALTIMORE RAVENS: And every time they see me, they see a different creature. Every time they see me, they see me changing somebody else's life.

Baltimore, we got a rare opportunity now, because all eyes are on us. I didn't take you to Chicago. I didn't take you to Detroit. I didn't take you to Cleveland. Because right now, we going to sit here, because that's where the tough fight is; we're the captains of the world. (inaudible)

We're running with each other, man. But this is a world problem. This is good versus evil. That's all separating but figuring out who's who. (inaudible)

I'm saying go home. War isn't won in the streets. War is won in political buildings. If we want to make real noise, walk in congress together. If you want to really march, let's walk to the White House together and (inaudible). Let's create our own law. Let's take our own little (inaudible) and put more power.

(inaudible)

No problems. It's life. And life sometimes, we going to find ourselves -- and right now, we going. Is it's going to be the real people who send to us put a change on life. Over the next 30 days, if you do nothing else, if you do nothing else until that time, do everything different than you've always done, if you're looking for a different result. Because if you don't change, your situation won't change.

I promise you, there's not one person in here that grew up in greater poverty than I grew up in. So I know what it feels like being at rock bottom. I know what it feels like not having nothing. I know what it feels like. So I can relate with everything you've been through. But now is about the time.

Now it's about, you really want voice? If we really want a voice, let's treat ourselves right first. Let's treat each other right first, right? Let's not destroy another brother because of a problem. Let's not be a part of gangs just to be a part of gangs. We all working together. At the end of the day, we go to each other. That's where we go.

Man, I'm on the ground. (inaudible) This city been good to me, man. Too good. And it's too many hard-working people doing too many things, man. So that's sad, man. We've got people out there that would just do that, man, and ask this many kids. We've got kids watching this, man. You can't tear something somebody built. We may not have much, but we made it out all right.

Everybody in here's got that same opportunity, man. Do not tear this city apart -- we are conquerors. We built from a different creed. But now we've got to believe. But now we got to walk it, now we got to talk it. Now we got to preach it and see it. And then when we done, let us be the example of real change.

People want to know what real change is, let us be the example of real change. Spread the word. If we don't say nothing else let's do it. If we don't say it (inaudible). Spread the message. (inaudible)

Not this. Not this -- teamwork. Every man here knows something about teamwork. (inaudible) And at the end of the day, we are ok. We are ok when we lost that championship, (inaudible) because the next time. Let's change our city. Let's change about the way we respect our teachers. Let's change by simply obeying orders.

[10:35:05] I can't thank you enough, guys. I love you. I love you. I love you. Let's get started. (inaudible)

Seriously, we'll find a way. We will find a way. We'll do it together. All right? Love you guys.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Ray Lewis just finishing up a fiery speech to these students at Frederick Douglass High School in the city of Baltimore; this high school a short distance away from the Mondawmin Mall where young people violently protested just a few days ago and sparked the riots here in Baltimore.

We're going to take a short break. I'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. I just got this word in. Baltimore police will be holding a news conference at 11:00 a.m. Eastern time. Of course, we'll carry that live. We're expecting them to say something about this report that they're about to turn over to the state's attorney office. 11:00 a.m. Eastern, that's when the presser happens. Of course, we'll take it live.

Baltimore is resonating nationwide, and everyone has the same question. Why? What is the main cause of distrust between police and black America?

[10:40:06] Some say it's rooted in a police strategy known as zero tolerance. That means police arrest people for minor infractions or some say on the mere suspicion of criminal activity.

That policy started in Baltimore in the early 2000s. In 2005 alone, police arrested more than 108,000 people in a city of 640,000. Edward Norris led Baltimore's police department from 2000 to 2002. He's credited with a significant drop in the city's murder rate and many in Baltimore loved him. Today he hosts a popular Baltimore radio show. You might know him from David Simon's "The Wire". He starred as a detective.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you and Marnell shoot your boy Pookie down on Carrey street just like Marnell said you did?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no.

EDWARD NORRIS, FORMER BALTIMORE POLICE COMMISSIONER: Lie. You're lying (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The machine is never wrong, son.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: That's Edward Norris. Edward Norris joins me live now. Welcome -- sir. Thank you for being with me.

NORRIS: Thanks -- good to see you again, Carol.

COSTELLO: Nice to see you again, too. I want to talk about this zero tolerance policy. Did you and the mayor at the time, Martin O'Malley, start that policy?

NORRIS: I never, ever brought zero tolerance here, but I was labeled with it by some of the politicians, Martin O'Malley and the media and they ran with it. I brought down the broken windows theory from New York under -- I learned under Bill Bratton. And the idea was, minor offenses, if you had a series of serious crimes like shootings or robberies and you could solve them, go in and enforce like minor regulations, dice games, pot smoking and then you talk to people who you had in custody about the serious issues.

It was very targeted and those arrested go up substantially after I left. I left in '02. Those things skyrocketed '03, '0 '04, '05.

Why did they skyrocket? You left the police department and went on to the Maryland State Police after that. And you know, the statistics from 2005 are shocking.

NORRIS: Yes, I think, and I got this from people anecdotally, but I believe it's true. It's a lot harder than it looks to do it well. And I think people misunderstood and some of the people in the mayor's staff, particularly, I think they saw, well, we saw them do it for a couple of years, we can do this too. All you have to do is lock everybody up and that's not how it works.

And it created a tremendous community mistrust because according to what I was told, I used to get a lot of people at the time, they were being arrested for drinking beer on their own stoops and doing things in their own home and in front of their own homes and it created a tremendous problem and a divide in this city. COSTELLO: Martin O'Malley is thinking about running for

president and he's using the crime drop, you know, the crime rate drop in Baltimore as maybe one of the platforms, you know, in his presidential campaign. Should he, in light of what's happening now in the city of Baltimore?

NORRIS: Well, I mean you can't take credit away from him. Crime did go down substantially and he lured me down from New York to do exactly that. And I really believed in the cause and him and it happened and we did bring crime down and murders below 300 for the first time in over a decade. So he can point to that.

But this is certainly something that is a negative, when I believe people who didn't understand the program ran with it, and instead of using targeted enforcement on minor violations, went wild and started arresting people in big numbers.

COSTELLO: So in retrospect, even though the homicide rate dropped below 300 for the first time in years and years, in retrospect, was zero tolerance the wrong policy?

NORRIS: Zero tolerance doesn't work. I mean that's something I didn't employ. I want to stress that again. Zero tolerance is a bad policy. It's never going to work. You can't enforce zero tolerance in any city. But you can use targeted enforcement and strategic policing, much like you saw under Jack Maple New York, John Miller, Bill Bratton -- of course, the commissioner is back now. That works.

Zero tolerance does not work. And I think the problem and the danger is when people misunderstand it, they take what is a great police strategy, a sea change in American policing and kind of twist and pervert it to zero tolerance and you end up with this kind of a problem.

COSTELLO: So in your opinion, what can be done now to restore some kind of trust between the police and the community, because that seems impossible at the moment?

NORRIS: Yes, it's not impossible. We'll get through this. This is a really resilient city. A lot of tension here that's been simmering for a long time but once the city stabilizes and calms down, they've got a great faith-based community here. I worked with all the ministers when I was police commissioner. I worked with the NAACP, its headquartered. There's a lot of really good people in town -- the city leaders, the state -- they'll get it through. It's a great community of folks here with terrific organizers.

This just shouldn't have happened. But they'll get through this. And, you know, this opens a dialogue as to why we got into this mess.

COSTELLO: Commissioner Batts is about to hold a news conference at 11:00 a.m. Eastern and I suppose he'll talk about this investigative report that he's about to turn over to the prosecutor's office. What should he say?

[10:45:06] NORRIS: Well, I don't know what he's going to say. I think people are going to be disappointed. They've been kind of misled, I believe. They believe that this is going to come out and they'll be thumbing through a report tomorrow. I don't think that's going to be the case.

This is going to the state's attorney and she's going to have to make a decision, which may take a little time. I don't believe the public is going to hear anything differently tomorrow. I could be wrong and maybe he'll reveal some things they have uncovered. But I'm not certain people are going to be satisfied.

I think a lot of people are under the misunderstanding that this is going to be given out to the public in big numbers.

COSTELLO: In all that you've seen so far, can you figure out what happened with Freddie Gray?

NORRIS: I have no idea. I mean that's the problem. None of us know. And there's so much misinformation being spread about. There's some very trusted news sources giving us completely different stories. There was that report yesterday from "The Post", about Freddie Gray trying to hurt himself. And I believe they went with that.

Then we had maybe the most esteemed investigative reporter in Baltimore, Jane Miller said, "I got information to the contrary. That did not happen. He said it was a quiet ride." So the problem is the information so contradictory, we have no idea what happened. And now we have a void or vacuum of information that gets filled by the wrong message or misinformation.

COSTELLO: And of course, many in the city are worried about, you know, when this report comes out and there's no information and there's no charges, there might be riots anew in the city of Baltimore.

As you know, Ray Lewis is in town. Is that helpful?

NORRIS: Ray Lewis is very helpful. People may not realize it outside the city, but he is such an immense influence in this town. He's canceled his appearance at the draft tonight to be here, to help the city through this. He has been very committed to this city. And as Adam Jones of the Orioles, he's also a very influential member of this community, and he has also been vocal. And I believe both of them can really, really help us through this.

COSTELLO: Edward Norris, thank you so much for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.

NORRIS: Yes, good to see you.

COSTELLO: Nice to see you too again. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:45] COSTELLO: In just a few minutes, President Obama will be speaking at the Anacostia Library in Washington, D.C. -- that's what you're looking at right now. A group of middle school students will be on hand. They're on a field trip

We're going to monitor this, the President's address to see if he talks about the situation in Baltimore.

CNN's senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta is with us to tell us more. Jim -- I know the President took some flack this week for calling some of the rioters in Baltimore criminals and thugs. He's not walking back on his comments, though, is he?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

He's definitely not, Carol. And just to talk about this event that you're monitoring here in Anacostia, in the area of Washington, D.C., where you know, a lot of at-risk kids deal with these sorts of issues that are unfolding in Baltimore on a daily basis.

The President is going to be talking about the importance of reading and he's going to be announcing some commitments from some companies around the country that are going to be donating hundreds of millions of dollars in e-books to at-risk kids in these sorts of communities.

And so this is one of those examples when the President, he can't get his agenda passed through Congress, but he can certainly do things like this. And so we're going to hear the President talk about all of this in a few moments. And while he may or may not talk about the situation in Baltimore, he is going to be talking about some of these underlying issues that create neighborhoods and communities where there's just a lack of opportunities. And that is one of these issues, these deep-rooted issues the President has been talking about in the last couple of days, Carol. You heard this.

The President has been engaging in some real talks, some straight talk about these issues. Talking about how some of those rioters and protesters in Baltimore were nothing more than criminals and thugs.

And, you know, as you heard, on our air over the last 24 hours, there were some people who took issue with the President saying that, with the mayor of Baltimore using that kind of language. But when the White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, was asked about this at the briefing yesterday, he did not walk it back. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't think the President would in any way revise the remarks that he shared with all of you in the Rose Garden. Whether it's arson or, you know, the looting of a liquor store -- those were thuggish acts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And so there you have it, right from the White House press secretary. But Carol, you know, the President went on in that interview with Steve Harvey, as you heard on the radio, talk about communities where fathers are absent because they're incarcerated, where drug dealers are prevalent in the streets and there's just a lack of economic opportunity.

And this White House is deeply frustrated by that. They wish they could get their economic agenda passed up on Capitol Hill and they feel that's a big part of the reason why you have communities across this country that are dealing with these issues and that's part of the reason why you're going to see the President in just a few moments talk about some of these issues in Anacostia.

He may not directly talk about the situation in Baltimore, where things are calming down, thank goodness, but he is going to be talking about these issues about providing more opportunities for these kids, which can only have a positive benefit -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jim Acosta, reporting live from the White House. Thanks so much. As I said at 11:00 a.m. Eastern, the Baltimore police commissioner is expected to speak. When he starts speaking, we will take that live. We assume he's going to talk about this police report that's going to be turned over to the prosecutor's office tomorrow.

I want to bring in now the Reverend Heber Brown III. He's a pastor at the Pleasant Hope Baptist Church and I also want to bring back CNN legal analysts Paul Callan and Mark O'Mara. Welcome to all of you.

Pastor, I would like to start -- thank you for being here, Pastor. Reverend, I would like to start with you first. Ray Lewis is in town. How important is that?

REV. HEBER BROWN III, PLEASANT HOPE BAPTIST CHURCH: Well, it's very important. What's going on right now in Baltimore -- things may be, as I heard said, calming down for some, but in terms of those who live here, things are still revving up. Systemic injustices continue and we have to continue to organize, to challenge the systemic injustices and policies that are plaguing our people.

COSTELLO: Reverend, the commissioner is going to talk at the top of the hour. We expect him to talk about this police report. What should he say in your mind?

BROWN: Well, at this point, it's more than what can be said; it's more what can be done.

[10:55:03] There were 17 pieces of legislation in the Maryland state legislature earlier this year, dealing with police accountability and police transparency, and no major legislation came out of the Maryland legislature dealing with this issue. It could have been averted on so many different levels, and so I'm not sure if anything, there's a magic word to say right now. People want to see action.

COSTELLO: All right. I want to turn to our legal analysts now to talk more about this police report that's going to be turned over to the prosecutor's office. She has a tough job on her hands, Paul.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: She has a very, very tough job on her hands and she's got to make a decision about six police officers. And, you know, she's dealing with, it's interesting, in Baltimore, because you have an African-American mayor, an African- American police commissioner, an African-American district attorney or state's attorney -- as they call them in Maryland, and you have a police force that is predominantly minority too. So she is going to be dealing with pressure from the police about being treated fairly as well. So, boy, she's right in the middle of a firestorm.

COSTELLO: So, is it likely, then, she'll turn the case over to the grand jury?

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think she definitely will. I think she's going to own up to the task. She's got some five years experience as a line prosecutor so she knows how to handle cases. She's got a great background. She's a very sharp woman. Even though she's young in her present position, she has good experience.

My question is, I'm curious whether or not she's going to take a lesson from the McCulloch school of thought in Ferguson and do it all in a very transparent way. You know, it used to be, you would never hear about that. Now since McCulloch did it, I'm wondering if now she'll take on the task of saying, it's going to a grand jury, we're going to record everything. We're going to have everything available to you, so whatever the decision is from the grand jury, you will know about it because we know it's going to be tough to get indictments on cops along the board.

And in a case like this, unless there is that true criminal activity that's shown, it's going to be difficult. And if it doesn't come, she better be able to explain herself for the grand jury.

COSTELLO: The only difference though is Baltimore City is predominantly African-American. So I would assume the grand jurors would be made up of mostly African-Americans. Won't that make a difference? Who don't trust police in Baltimore City -- I mean I'm just talking generally about African-Americans.

CALLAN: Well, that's why, you know, people who defended the grand jury in Ferguson and in other places, because it's been around for a long time. The whole defense is that it's a democratic institution and it tends to reflect the demographics of the county that it serves in.

And so I think in Baltimore, the demographics will be properly represented here and there'll be suspicion that these grand jurors will bring to the case. The hard part about this case, though, Carol, and the thing that I worry about more than anything else is that when you see that Freddie Brown's (SIC) spine was snapped, you say, it has to be a criminal case against the police.

And it may very well be, but proving it is a different matter, because you have different groups of police who had contact with him at different times. And we don't know, of course, all of the facts, but I think from a medical standpoint, it's going to be a complex case to present and prove.

So, on the surface it looks easy, like an easy call. She's looking, though, at a very difficult, complex, medical case.

COSTELLO: Reverend, are you still with me?

BROWN: I am.

COSTELLO: So Reverend, I just wonder, if the state's attorney decides to turn the case over to the grand jury, how do you suppose the community will react?

BROWN: Well, it will be something that we've not seen a lot. I mean, the previous city state's attorney was one that did not bring forward indictments when it came to police officers. In fact, the ACLU reported that between 2010 and 2014, 109 people died after police encounters, most being African-American. And I can count on the hand how many police officers were indicted and how far we got along in the legal process.

That's a part of the frustration here in Baltimore. Freddie Gray is one name, and of course, we should focus on him and his family, but I have to speak the name of Tyrone West, Anthony Anderson, Monet Turnedge and so many others where people have been killed or brutalized at the hands of police and nothing seems to come of it.

COSTELLO: All right. Reverend Heber Brown -- thank you so much for joining me.

I'd also like to thank Paul Callan and Mark O'Mara -- many thanks to you.

As I mentioned, the police commissioner is expected -- the Baltimore police commissioner is expected to make some sort of statement or some sort of news conference at the top of the hour. We do expect him to talk about this police report that he's about to turn over to the state's attorney. That's supposed to happen tomorrow. Perhaps it's happening earlier, we just don't know yet.

So I'm going to throw to my colleagues. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm going to throw it to John Berman in Baltimore and Kate Bolduan in New York.

Take it away guys.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hey Carol -- thank you so much. And we are going to continue with all of the developing coverage and really the breaking news coverage now of the situation on the ground in Baltimore.

As Carol just mentioned, we are awaiting at this moment a press conference that was really just announced that will be happening at the Baltimore police headquarters on the ground there.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan.

[11:00:04] JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: And I'm John Berman.

As Kate said, the breaking news here in Baltimore, just across from where I'm standing right now, is there will be a press conference with the commissioner of the police department here --