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THE SITUATION ROOM
Stunning Disclosures of Freddie Gray's Arrests and Subsequent Injuries During Police Custody. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired April 30, 2015 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:01] TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But the Orioles weekend game against the Tampa Rays had been moved to Florida. So nobody in the hometown crowd will be taking anyone out to the ball game anytime soon -- Jake.
TAPPER: Thanks, Tom.
That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer starts right now.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, stunning disclosures. A new report cites law enforcement sources as saying Freddie Gray's fatal injury occurred inside the van, taking him away.
And Baltimore police say that the van made an extra stop. Investigators were initially not even told about this. Was there any hidden information?
The investigation, police hand over their findings to the prosecutor. The prosecutor says she won't take their work for granted, will conduct her own review of the case.
Nationwide protests. New demonstrations breaking out as marchers take to the streets in Baltimore. Philadelphia and other cities. How far will the outrage spread?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
BLITZER: The breaking news, new protests are underway right now in Baltimore. And in Philadelphia, more rallies are planned as state -- as police give the state's attorney their report on the death of Freddie Gray. In a stunning revelation, police now say that during their investigation they learned about an unreported stop by the van carrying Gray.
And CNN affiliate WJLA-TV cites multiple law enforcement sources briefed on the police findings as saying the investigation shows Gray apparently broke his neck inside the police van, and a head injury matches a bolt in the back of the van.
These disclosures are raising new questions about what really happened after the arrest. The prosecutor says her office will conduct its own probe, won't rely solely on what the police report says. Baltimore's mayor says justice will be done.
Our correspondents, analysts and guests, they're all standing by with all the late-breaking developments. Let's begin, though, in Baltimore.
Bryan Todd is joining us once again with the very latest -- Brian.
I think we're having trouble connecting with Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, once again on the streets of Baltimore, they're just pulsating with energy tonight for a consecutive -- probably the sixth or seventh consecutive day now of protest marchers.
We're going to pan over here and show you some marchers here. A couple of hundred people on their way, Wolf, to city hall. A lot of these marchers not satisfied with what they believe is a lack of clear answers from the police in this investigation. Taking this protest now to city hall several, several blocks away. We'll be there soon with them as we march through the night.
Meanwhile tonight, new threads of information from multiple news outlets citing multiple sources on what might have happened to Freddie Gray the morning of his arrest.
TODD (voice-over): The investigation into the death of Freddie Gray has grown more confusing as conflicting accounts emerge on the day Baltimore Police turned over their case to city prosecutors.
CNN affiliate WJLA spoke to multiple law enforcement sources who were briefed on the findings of that police report that was turned over to prosecutors. WJLA's sources say the medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van. Apparently breaking his neck. A head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van, according to those sources. Several questions now surround Gray's time in the police van.
Another prisoner on the same ride believes Gray was intentionally trying to hurt himself by banging against the walls. That's according to a "Wall Post" report citing a police investigation document. CNN affiliate WBAL disputes that reporting saying their sources tell them that when the second suspect got into the van, Gray was already unresponsive.
This intersection in Baltimore now under scrutiny in the investigation into the death of Freddie Gray. Police say their inquiry found the van transporting Gray made a previously undisclosed stop here, only discovered because it was captured in private surveillance camera footage.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: We want justice.
TODD: As anger over Freddie Gray's death flames across the country, the new information is not sitting well with the Baltimore community.
REV. JAMAL BRYANT, EMPOWERMENT TEMPLE: The confidence level the community has with the police department is souring, to say the absolute best. A married couple living in two separate bedrooms.
TODD: Baltimore Police say their investigation will continue.
ANTHONY BATTS, COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE PD: We have exhausted every lead at this point in time, but this does not mean that the investigation is over. If new evidence is found we will follow it.
TODD: The state's attorney now with the burden of deciding whether to file charges against any of the six officers involved in Gray's arrest. Today the mayor reassured the public that there will be answers.
MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, BALTIMORE: We will get justice for Freddie Gray. Believe you me, we will get justice.
[17:05:03] TODD: Though it's not clear how police found out about that fourth stop that's being reported on today, they did say they got it from a piece of private surveillance video and we do know that that might have come from a Korean grocer. It's not clear when that might have been reviewed by police. It had to have been before Monday, though, because that Korean grocer was looted on Monday. They believe police might have reviewed the tape before then to find out information about that fourth stop that they are now telling the media about.
And, Wolf, as you can see, back up North Avenue, east on North Avenue. Very vibrant protest here. Again, these people are committed to a peaceful demonstration and they hope that this is going to be joining up with another group of protesters on St. Paul Street, and this crowd basically should only grow from here -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian Todd, be careful over there. We'll check back with you.
Marchers also on the move in other parts of Baltimore as well as in Philadelphia. Another rally now planned in Cincinnati.
Let's go to CNN's Miguel Marquez. He's on the streets of Baltimore.
Miguel, what's going on where you are?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Several hundred people have gathered here on North Avenue. They are marching east and they are going to hook up with another group here and then they're going to march on city hall. All these protests getting much, much more organized.
For the first time, Wolf, I can tell you I see Baltimore police officers marching along with the marchers, and the police moving ahead of the march in their squad cars blocking traffic as these marchers go.
This is the first time we've seen that, this is a significant step before the marchers and for Baltimore police. So perhaps it's a good sign, but that new information about Freddie Gray and what we're hearing about what may have happened in that van will not set well here. People very, very distrustful of both the Baltimore police and the government. It is going to take a lot for these -- for the people here today to feel like they're getting satisfaction -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Miguel, stand by.
There's also a solidarity protest under way right now in Philadelphia. CNN's Poppy Harlow is on the streets of Philadelphia for us. She's joining us live.
What's it like there, Poppy?
POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What it is, is a very vocal, as you can hear, but very peaceful protest. The police here tweeting at least 600 people have descended here on city hall right at 15th and Market, right in the middle.
Let's pan out so you can see what we're talking about here. Again, a gathering of people of all ages, all races, coming together, and telling me, Wolf, that this is about a lot more than Freddie Gray. One young woman Angela telling me, this is about equal treatment for all people, of all races, under the law, and saying, they want answers about Freddie Gray, but they want answers about a number of different African-American men they believe were unjustly killed in police custody.
I did have a chance to speak with the police inspector here, one of the top guys in the police force. He told me we know that this is going to be peaceful. The city has a long history of peaceful protests. We are prepared for whatever happens tonight. There are marchers in another location.
But he told me this, Wolf. He said, protesters are citizens, not suspects. It is our job as police to protect them as they exercise their First Amendment right. So the relationship here between the police on the outskirts of this protest and the protesters is very peaceful and very calm. This is emblematic of exactly what we should be seeing in terms of protesters getting their voice out and being heard -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Poppy, we'll stay in close touch with you.
We're showing our viewers live pictures from the skies over Philadelphia, over Baltimore. The protests clearly growing. Other cities expected as well.
Let's bring in our justice correspondent Pamela Brown.
Pamela, there are new information, new questions. Why didn't the police know about this fourth stop previously unknown? Tell us what you're learning. PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this previously
undisclosed information about this stop is a surprising revelation. Police said they didn't find out about it until very recently. And it came from information after -- this information came to light after a thorough review of cameras. Not from the police officers involved with Freddie Gray's arrest.
Now the video footage of this stop was taken from a security camera right outside of a small corner grocery store. Stops like this are supposed to be logged by police. Usually from radio dispatches by the driver, but police say that didn't happen in this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN DAVIS, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE POLICE: The second stop has been revealed to us during the course of our investigation, and was previously unknown to us. We discovered this new stop based on our thorough and comprehensive and ongoing review of all CCTV cameras and privately owned cameras and, in fact, this new stop has been -- was discovered from a privately owned camera.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And we have learned there was only one officer inside Gray's transporting van, and according to WJLA, CNN's affiliate, sources telling WJLA that he is the only one out of the six officers involved with Gray's arrest who declined to give a statement to authorities, the van driver there.
[17:10:11] Still missing from the picture of course is what exactly happened in that newly disclosed stop. It would have been the second of four stops before an ambulance picked Gray up -- Wolf.
BLITZER: So what happens, Pamela, next in this investigation?
BROWN: We know Baltimore Police have handed the findings over to the state's attorney's office, and now the state's attorney will decide whether the officers should face charges, and whether it should -- the information, the findings in the investigation should go to a grand jury or not. A key clue is still missing, though. That is the medical examiner's report. That could help investigators determine how and when Freddie Gray was injured.
The Gray family attorney says that he is unaware of any injuries Gray may have had before this arrest. Of course as you know, Wolf, there's been some speculation about that. He's saying he doesn't know of any injuries before the arrest.
BLITZER: Thanks very much for that, Pamela, reporting -- Pamela Brown reporting.
Joining us now from Baltimore, the social activist Jay Morrison, he's leader of the YMC Community Coalition.
Jay, thanks very much for joining us. I want to get your quick reaction to this new reporting by our CNN affiliate WJLA that Freddie Gray broke his neck actually while riding inside the prison van, and also sustained a head injury matching a bolt in the back of the van.
When you hear these kinds of reports, what do you think?
JAY MORRISON, LEADER, YMC COMMUNITY COALITION: Well, I think those reports support my theory. I watched the video from your colleague Brooke Baldwin and actually posted it on joinymc.org. And that video at 1:45 shows the officer bending Freddie's leg and a loud scream from Freddie and a bystander saying, why did you twist his leg like that?
And I think that the injury that happened on Freddie's spine -- excuse me, happened then, and that -- all that other rough ride and fourth stop, I think all of those things are supporting the initial injury that happened at the arrest.
BLITZER: So you think he was injured by the time they pushed him into that van. Is that what you were saying?
MORRISON: No, Wolf, not even a think. If you watch your colleague, Brooke Baldwin's video, it's posted on joinYMC.org, at 1:45, you can see the officer bending his leg, and Freddie screams. The officer drops his leg and it falls to the floor lifeless. And then when he picks him up, he can't even walk. His leg was just -- that was an injury right there. How are we all missing this? It's right there in our eyes. I'm not making this up. Your colleague posted the video.
BLITZER: All right. Fair enough. We know there -- we know there were cameras, in fact, in that police van. So the driver could monitor the prisoners, but that the cameras weren't recording what was going on in the back of the van.
Here's the question, do you think the driver who may or may not be one of the six police officers refusing to offer a statement, a testimony, if you will, to the police investigation, do you think this driver really knows what happened in the back of the van?
MORRISON: Absolutely. These are buddies. I mean, these officers are co-workers, they're brothers. They have a bond. And they're going to try to protect each other until it gets too hairy and something comes out. So I think that all of those officers are all co-conspirators. I think they're all accessories to this crime that's going to inevitably come out.
BLITZER: Jay, I want you to stand by. I want to take a quick break. We're watching live pictures coming in over Baltimore, over at Philadelphia.
BLITZER: Demonstrations planned in other cities including Cincinnati. We're watching closely what's going on. Stay with us. We'll take a quick break. Much more right here right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, right after this.
[17:18:03] BLITZER: All right. Take a look at this. These are live pictures. These are from Baltimore. Protesters marching once again. They're protesting what's been going on over the past couple of week in Baltimore.
We also have live pictures coming in from Philadelphia. Look at that crowd in Philadelphia. They're supporting the protesters in Baltimore. And we expect these to escalate and grow larger in other cities as well.
We're back with the social activist Jay Morrison, he's leader of the YMC Community Coalition.
What do you make of these protests, Jay, in Baltimore and Philadelphia? Yesterday saw protests in New York. I assume they're going to continue.
Can you hear me?
MORRISON: You're breaking up a little. Sorry about that.
MORRISON: I hear you now. Yes.
BLITZER: All right. What do you make of all these protests that are going on right now?
MORRISON: I just heard protests going on right now.
BLITZER: What do you think -- what's your reaction when you see the protests in Baltimore, the protests in Philadelphia, the protests escalating in other cities as well?
MORRISON: I mean, Wolf, I'm elated. When we were out here the other day and we see the protests going on now, so many generations of people. Many young people. It's so diverse and this is a case that we as African-Americans need. We need the support of our white brothers and sisters and yellow, and red, and every other color, to help in the oppression of African-Americans here in America.
This Eric Garner case, this Freddie Gray, Mike Brown's, Oscar Grant, these aren't -- this is a pattern. This is an oppression pattern. And we need our white brothers and sisters mainly, the majority, to support us in the commonsense cause of the experience of black Americans is not the same for everyone else.
BLITZER: I'm going to show you the video you were talking about. I think this is the video you were talking about earlier, Jay, when Freddie Gray was initially taken into that van. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That boy's leg look broke. His leg broke, y'all dragging him like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: I don't know if you can see that, Jay.
MORRISON: So, Wolf --
BLITZER: If you have a TV monitor there, but his legs clearly are limp and he's being dragged into that van.
[17:20:02] MORRISON: Right. So, Wolf, listen, let's you and I make history today. Let's blow this thing wide open. Think about it. Why would innocent bystanders say his leg is broke? Why would someone say, why did you twist his leg like that? Why would his leg be limp? That means an injury. My 6-year-old daughter London can see that was an injury.
So, Wolf, let's blow it up. It was an injury right there. We see it.
BLITZER: Yes. We see that. Clearly, his legs are limp, although you did hear the police chief in Baltimore say that when he actually got into the van he was standing on one leg. You heard him say that.
MORRISON: Right. One leg possibly, that doesn't mean the other one was limp. The deputy commissioner with Jerry Rodriguez said there was no physical action needed in the arrest, but we see his leg bent. We all see it. All the world is watching right now. We see Freddie Gray's injury. That very well could have been a spine injury right there, which could have alluded to a weak spine which resulted in his head bobbing and the other injury. But that's his injury there. We all see it. Jay Morrison is not making this up.
BLITZER: No. You're clearly not making it up and clearly his legs --
MORRISON: Right. Right.
BLITZER: His legs, it looks very limp. He -- it obviously looks like he's in pain. You heard what the police union representative said, though. They said sometimes people were arrested resist and they just go limp deliberately. You've heard the police union representative say that.
MORRISON: And that's where police and our government put government over citizens. Especially government over African-American citizens. Right? So if we were all being just human beings about love and about empathy, you would see right there compassion. That was a white child, a Spanish child, a Korean child, that person just got injured, and their leg pulled in some kind of weird way that caused that man not to be able to walk.
We all see that. We see the witnesses seen the result, the cause and the effect. The cause of his leg being bent, the effect was he couldn't move his leg. His spine broke. That's what happened. Why are we fooling ourselves?
BLITZER: Do you have confidence --
MORRISON: Why is the president fooling himself? Why is the commissioner fooling himself?
BLITZER: Do you have confidence in this investigation?
MORRISON: Yes. I'd put $1 million on it.
BLITZER: Do you have confidence in this investigation right now? The police investigation, the state's attorney investigation, what the mayor is doing? Do you have confidence in the authorities, in other words?
MORRISON: I don't have confidence in the American government. But I have a confidence in the American people. I believe that the people, white, black and everything in between will make enough noise. Enough civil protests that the government will be forced to do the just thing. The government on its own, three weeks with no action. No action happening in Baltimore until the riots happened.
Had those youth not rallied up and rioted, no one would be here. That's why we're here. That's why justice is exposed. If there's no riots, Freddie Gray goes under the rug by every other black unjustice that happens in America. So this is why we're here.
BLITZER: All right. Jay --
MORRISON: Now we're all going to see the truth.
BLITZER: If you could stay with us, we're going to have to take another commercial break. I want to take a quick break.
We're watching what's going on on the streets of Baltimore and Philadelphia. Other demonstrations planned as well. We'll be right back.
[17:27:35] BLITZER: We're following the breaking news. New demonstrations on the streets of Baltimore and Philadelphia. This on the same police gave a Maryland prosecutor the results of their investigation into the death of Freddie Gray.
Our CNN affiliate WJLA citing multiple law enforcement sources briefed on the police findings. Reports of medical examiner found Gray's fatal injury was actually caused after the arrest when he slammed into the back of a Baltimore Police van apparently breaking his neck.
Let's go to CNN's Brian Todd, he's among the protesters in Baltimore with more on what's going on right now.
Update our viewers, Brian.
TODD: This gathering of marchers just stopped on St. Paul Street, and we have a couple of local celebrities here who are about to talk to us. Carmelo Anthony, an NBA star, and Kevin Lyle, well-known music executive here, trying to find my photographer. We just got jammed up in the crowd here.
All right. Carmelo Anthony moved ahead of us but, Kevin, Kevin here. Here's Kevin. Kevin, you just got back into town. Why did you want to join this
KEVIN LYLE, MUSIC EXECUTIVE: Well, when Melo and I heard about everything we said this is our city. We got to come home. We got to come home and make sure the people understand we need to build this city up. Not tear the city down. So that was our response to come down, help out, organize my guys, and come walk here.
TODD: You said you've met -- your group has met with some city officials behind closed doors.
TODD: Are you satisfied with the answers that given you on the investigation?
LYLE: We are dissatisfied because we don't have the truth yet. When we get the truth we'll be satisfied. When we get the truth we can change laws. When we get the truth we can a difference. Right now we don't have the truth. So until we get the truth there will be no peace.
TODD: OK. You bear a striking resemblance to Russell Simmons. You tell me you're not him, you tell me you're Kevin Lyles. I'm not sure I believe you. We think this is Russell Simmons, Wolf.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kevin Lyle.
TODD: He's Kevin Lyle.
LYLE: OK. I'm here with Stokes. Stokes told me to call. We come do what we got to do. I'm born and raised here. I bleed Baltimore.
TODD: All right. You're one of the organizers here. What is your goal tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My goal is the agenda. The agenda (INAUDIBLE). You know, we need peace. We need tranquility. We need transparency. And a lot of you have no voice, and we're going to be that voice.
TODD: What do you say about the report that was handed to the prosecutor's office, the only nugget of information was that there was a fourth stop?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I understand that's protocol in the police department. Understand the prosecutor has a job to do. So myself, layman terms, I'm going to be patient with the process. I just want justice for Freddie Gray and his family, and I want the young folks to know that we're not giving up. You know, we're going to see justice by any means necessary and hope that they do the right thing.
[17:30:07] TODD: Now you say by any means necessary. What are you telling this crowd? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, positive. I mean, we're going to do
everything positive. We condemn any violence. Myself, my constituents, my friends, my family, my (INAUDIBLE), we condemn any form of violence and crime. That's not what we stand for. Baltimore is a beautiful city. I love Baltimore. We love Baltimore. Baltimore gave me my identity. I can never turn on a city that gave me so much.
TODD: I need to ask you about one of our affiliate, WJLA, is reporting that their investigations citing multiple law enforcement sources says that Freddie Gray was very likely not injured by the two policemen who accosted him on the street and that he was injured by a blow to the head inside that van. A wound on his skull matched the bolt inside that van.
What do you make of that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don't -- I'm not a forensic specialist, no, I'm not a biologist. But I do know that you fall down, hit your head, nothing to do with your throat or your spine. So from my understanding, injuries that couldn't have been self-inflicted. So, you know, I guess, my only thing is, I'm praying for the truth. You know, I talked to the commissioner. We had a successful meeting, we talked about solutions, we talked about policies and procedures, and I think that we're moving in the right direction. So hopefully when the findings come out it will be fair and just.
TODD: All right. But you know the city leaders, the mayor, everybody else, are pleading for patience from organizers like yourself. How patient will you be?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to be as patient as it takes. I mean, lives matter right now, you know, black lives matter. These kids, they need leadership, they guidance. Under no circumstances will allow myself to do something negative or to hurt the community. Understanding mayor's job is tough right now. If we could, she would be (INAUDIBLE) just a matter of minutes. But that's not how I'm told. So I respect the mayor. I respect -- all of the things she's trying to do and I support her up to the decision is made and I hope she do the right thing.
TODD: Thank you very much for talking to us. Good luck with the march tonight. Will you actually be marching back up to the neighborhood after city hall?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We going to march back up. You know, we're going to divide and we're going to go back on West Baltimore. Again, my agenda was hoping to speak to the mayor. Myself or someone else, to speak about an agenda that, you know, serve the black community. I mean, we have a lot of (INAUDIBLE) issues that hasn't been addressed, a lot of frustration and anger have been built up over the years. And what you saw tonight was an example of that.
So sometimes when young people speak they speak like that. We don't want to speak like that. Use intelligence and intellectual skills to promote non-violence. So we can resolve in a positive manner. I'm hoping the mayor can sit down with myself and help me bring about a positive change.
TODD: Thank you very much for speaking to us. One of the chief organizers of the march, brought in, NBA star, Carmelo Anthony, he brought in Russell Simmons who tried to masquerade as Kevin Lyle. We're not quite sure which one is which or if it's the same person. But here you have it, we talked to some of the chief participants in this rally as we march towards city hall -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian. Thanks very much.
Let's get some more on what's going on. Joining us, our CNN commentator, LZ Granderson, our law enforcement analyst, the former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes, our justice correspondent Pamela Brown, Cedric Alexander is a member of President Obama's Task Force on 21st Century Policing. He's also president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, and our CNN anchor Don Lemon who's also joining us from Baltimore.
Don, let me start with you. What's your reaction to all of the news we're getting today, especially that bombshell -- I think it's a bombshell from our affiliate WJLA, citing multiple law enforcement sources briefed on the police report's investigation, saying that Freddie Gray actually sustained those injuries in the back of that van?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Well, listen, a lot of people still don't believe it, and especially if you're paying attention to what people are saying here on the streets and what people are saying on social media, but if you actually read into that report, Wolf, you'll see that it's not conclusive. They don't know if it was self- sustained or if it was sustained through excessive force.
But the interesting thing is, is when I spoke to a family member, a very close family member, of one of the officers involved in the apprehension of Freddie Gray, they say that most of the officers there and especially the officer close to her, believed that Freddie Gray sustained those injuries before getting into that van. Here's what she said, Wolf. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Believes that whatever happened to Mr. Gray happened before he was transported.
LEMON: Did he hear screaming? Was he in the back -- you were saying that he was in the back going crazy maybe and yelling and moving around.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was -- he was irate and he was cursing. He was yelling and he was kicking. And that's what was heard.
LEMON: What happened first? Was he secured first?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was placed into the wagon with cuffs. He wasn't shackled. He was shackled later en route to where they were going. Because he was irate they had to stop. At that point they shackled him, but the officers that shackled him and the officers that placed him in the wagon did not seatbelt him.
[17:35:16] LEMON: He was never seat belted?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. It's an unwritten, unspoken rule, that when someone is irate in the paddy wagon, you don't reach over someone that's irate because they still have a mouth. They don't have the muscle so they can bite you and they can spit in your face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Yes. So, Wolf, that's, again, according to her relatives, she's very close to, that person, I can only say that it is a relative, and she believes that most of the officers in her estimation will be railroaded. That all six of those officers will have to pay for what she believes one or two, maybe three of those officers did, if they were responsible for Freddie Gray's injuries.
By the way what you're hearing here at city hall, there are people who are starting to gather here now, Wolf, and they have been chanting, "Freddie Gray, Freddie Gray. Justice, Freddie Gray, justice, Freddie Gray," and they're starting to gather here at city hall -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes. They're moving in various parts of Baltimore, Philadelphia. We're going to stay on top of the story. I want everyone to stand by. We'll take a quick break, we'll be right back.
[17:41:00] BLITZER: We're following the breaking news. New demonstrations on the streets of Baltimore and Philadelphia. They're demanding justice after the death of Freddie Gray, who was fatally injured while in a police -- while in police custody.
We're back with our correspondents, our commentators, and our experts.
Tom Fuentes, what's your reaction to the disclosure by the police today that they learned about this fourth stop of this van, not by interviewing any of the police officers involved, but by looking at videotape that was coming in from a private source?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, not surprised, Wolf, that they would get video, you know, much later in the investigation. That happens in all these cases. You have private businesses with their own security cameras that may not even know what they've recorded, traffic on the street or a police car pulling over. So I'm not surprised that they had to go up and down the street and ask people if they had videos that they could look at.
BLITZER: But why wouldn't the police officers tell them --
FUENTES: Well, that's what I was about to say.
BLITZER: -- that, yes, we didn't have three stops, we had four stops? FUENTES: Exactly. That means to me that the police officials, like
Commissioner Batts, weren't aware of it because the driver didn't radio in, I'm making a stop, which he's supposed to do. So if that driver just pulls over, doesn't radio in to the dispatcher, then the officials, the first day, when they started looking at this investigation, would be unaware that that stop happened until days or days later when they finally get the video camera showing that he did make that stop. So that's a bad indication, to me, of, you know, that the driver, to me, holds the key to this whole thing.
BLITZER: Cedric, the police said this additional stop, as I pointed out, it was discovered from a privately owned camera. What does that say to you?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: Well, it says to me that during the investigation that they continued to gather whatever evidence they could, and you know, it's going to be rather, maybe surprising to all of us once this investigation is released, Wolf, as to what all it contained, and I think if they'll open up some further questions, and maybe even shed some light on terms of what happened to Mr. Gray during that transportation, from that location there where they picked him of you off the ground to incarceration. It's certainly going to raise a lot of questions, I think, for everyone that's listening.
BLITZER: And let's not forget -- let's not forget, Cedric, that the police spokesman, Captain Kowalczyk, he has said, and I'm quoting him now, "We know Freddie Gray was not buckled in the transport wagon as he should have been. No excuses for that, period." Kowalczyk also said we know our police employees failed to get a medical attention in a timely manner multiple times.
Those are pretty damning statements, aren't they?
ALEXANDER: Yes. Well, they are. They certainly are statements that of grave concern, because I can pretty much assure you that most police departments across the country and I certainly can validate that with my own here in DeKalb, is that we have policy that anytime you place anyone in that prisoner vehicle are in a patrol vehicle, that you must buckle them in. That is part of policy.
BLITZER: Jeff Toobin, you're a former federal prosecutor. Marilyn Mosby, the state attorney in Maryland, she said they're not simply relying on what the police are telling them, but they're gathering their own facts.
Explain what's going on right now in this investigation because we know this morning the police announced they've actually given their preliminary report to the state's attorney.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this is obviously a very high-profile investigation, and the prosecutor above all wants to make sure that she has all the relevant facts at her disposal. Some of them certainly will come from the police, prosecutors always work closely with the local police, but in a case like this, it's very likely that they will reach out to other people. They will reach out to independent experts. Perhaps scientists.
Perhaps forensic scientists or independent medical examiners. They could seek support from the FBI or from the state police. There are certainly no prohibition on federal or state authorities working with a local prosecutor.
[17:45:03] The goal of the prosecutor has to be to gather all the relevant facts so that there can be no surprises down the line and so that she can make the appropriate decision of whether this was a horrible accident that caused the death of Freddie Gray, or was it a crime committed by someone? That's the core issue in this case.
BLITZER: LZ, you wrote a piece for CNN.com saying that police mistrust in Baltimore has always been there. You say Baltimore rage is not shocking. Explain what you mean.
LZ GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, if you just take a look at what's been going on around this country for the past 100-plus years, you'll see there's been consistent mistrust between the minority community and the police. And a lot of that has to do with the fact of a lack of transparencies and the police basically have no benefit of the doubt. Because minorities, particularly blacks in this country, have seen time and time again corrupt police officers get away with things.
Their brothers, who may not be corrupt but they are silent, allow these things to continue and then we bear the brunt of this -- of this, you know, of the bad things that these police officers are doing. Case in point, right here in Chicago, we're still waiting for dashcam video to be released of a young man who was killed in October. The police told us that they fired two rounds into his chest when he lunged at them with a knife. The autopsy has 16 bullet wounds, striking this young man from various different positions.
Why don't you show us the video so we can see what happened? These are the instances that black people see time and time again and this is why Baltimore isn't just about Baltimore but it's about all these communities big and small where minorities have seen police do things, and they just want some sort of transparency and some honesty.
BLITZER: You see on the left part of your screen the demonstrators moving towards city hall in Baltimore. In the bottom right-hand corner, a huge demonstration in Philadelphia as well.
We'll take a quick break, we'll stay on top of the story, right after this.
[17:51:27] BLITZER: The breaking news, new protests are under way in Baltimore and Philadelphia right now as CNN affiliate WJLA cites multiple law enforcement sources briefed on the police findings as saying the investigation shows Freddie Gray apparently broke his neck inside the police van.
Let's get some reaction to what's going on. The former Maryland Governor Bob Ehrlich is joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
What's your reaction, Governor, when you hear this report?