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Baltimore Photos Go Viral; Curfew Lifted in Baltimore as Protesters Rally; Freddie Gray's Death Puts Focus on Urban Poverty; Interfaith Rally On-Going in Baltimore; Protests by Ethiopian-Jews Turn Violent; New Royal Baby is a Girl. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 03, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:59:48] DEVIN ALLEN, BALTIMORE RESIDENT: You know, yes, I definitely understand that. Everyone has been profiled now. You know, we have been racially profiled. But the police also are being racially profiled. All of them are not bad, you know. I just took some pictures with some officers. I use them all the time. You're that guy, you know, come take a picture with me. They're not all not bad, you know.
Everyone is being profiled right now and that's the sad part about it. You can't tell the bad from the -- the good from the bad.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It sounds like progress though. It's already happening.
ALLEN: Yes.
HARLOW: Thank you so much. Beautiful picture to you -- something you will have to show your children one day. Dad's photo was on the cover of "Time" magazine.
ALLEN: I have a daughter -- six-year-old.
HARLOW: You have a daughter?
ALLEN: Yes.
HARLOW: Thank you very much. Nice to see you, sir. I appreciate it.
It is 7:00 Eastern this Sunday evening. I'm Poppy Harlow joining you live from city hall in Baltimore where we continue our coverage in this city. Protesters gathering here today calling for change and healing after the death of Freddie Gray while in police custody.
But the question lingers over this scene. What is next? The mayor has lifted the curfew in this city. Many people celebrating that -- community leaders, religious leaders, community members calling for peace and condemning the rioting and the violence but when the sun sets over Baltimore this Sunday, one hour from now, will people listen?
Baltimore this weekend has been all about the healing and moving forward after several really traumatizing days of unrest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: No peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice.
CROWD: No peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice.
CROWD: No peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice.
CROWD: No peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice.
CROWD: No peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: This was the rally today at city hall just a few feet from where I'm standing this afternoon -- the call for justice not aggressive but hopeful and galvanizing. Today, the mayor of Baltimore showed how optimistic she is that the people of her city can contain their frustration and can move forward in a peaceful way. She lifted the curfew that has kept the streets of Baltimore mostly empty for the past several nights.
CNN's Athena Jones is in the middle of what is just a huge celebration of this city. Athena -- what are you seeing?
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Poppy. That's exactly what I call it. Forgive me, I can't hear very well. There is a lot going on behind me. Let me move out of the way. You can see these are marching bands from all across Baltimore. I've seen all ages. I've seen children practically knee high, you know three feet high. They're not just high school students out demonstrating in a positive way as the curfew has been lifted.
It's a positive scene here. You can hear the drumming. They've been marching. They've been chanting. "We've got no problems, we come in peace."
There have been smaller demonstrations going on around this city hall area earlier in the day, but this is the biggest we've seen. You can just see it, dancing in unison, in coordination, all kinds of costumes out here. It's a lot of positivity now after, you know, several days of the day of unrest, of course, on Monday, then several uneasy days.
Now this day, curfew is lifted. People are out celebrating, and we'll just let you watch for a moment.
I think you can make that out. They're singing a song "What is love, baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more." We haven't seen anything like this yet. HARLOW: All right. Yes, we certainly haven't, Athena Jones. Thank
you so much. Appreciate it. We're hearing this is about seven different bands from high schools in west Baltimore who have come together, marched down here together to city hall and they're celebrating just a few feet from our camera location.
I do want to go now to Sara Sidner who is joining us from the area of the city on North and Penn where there have been so many protests and where violence happened earlier this week. Sara, the city has lifted the curfew. There is no curfew tonight. What are people there telling you they're expecting?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Reporter: you can certainly see what's happening here. I mean there are no crowds. I want to give you a look around just of the area. This is Pennsylvania going here, and North going this way. And you can see, I mean this was absolutely jam packed with people. There was no traffic here at all. Yesterday around this time there were hundreds upon hundreds of people who had converged in this area and stayed until the curfew. Most people leaving at curfew time and then some issues after curfew when police went to arrest those who were still out.
I also want to let you talk to a community member here who lives just up the street. She's been here for 51 years -- her entire life. Her name is Yvonne Thomas.
Yvonne, thank you so much for being here with me today. You and I were standing just down the street as this entire area was filled with hundreds and hundreds of people. Can you tell me what that experience was like for you seeing that?
[19:05:10] YVONNE THOMAS, BALTIMORE RESIDENT: It was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. I've never seen so many different cultures from Caucasian, Indian -- everybody, all one body having a good time and just wasn't no fighting, there wasn't -- it was happy, having fun.
And this I had never seen. I was like in my 51 years I live in Baltimore, Maryland, I've never seen anything like that before in my life. It was just a wonderful, wonderful thing to see.
SIDNER: You're standing right in front of the CVS where there was a completely different scene on Monday --
THOMAS: Right.
SIDNER: -- you know, about a week ago.
THOMAS: Right.
SIDNER: What do you say to folks who came into this area and did some of this, and what are you hoping to see in the future?
THOMAS: I hope that the CVS gets rebuilt because that's where most people get their medicine from the CVS. They get their medicine. Most of the seniors in this building right there, they get their meds. They have no way to get their medicine. They get their toiletries and everything because it's the only that's close to their home. I hope they rebuild it and rebuild downtown. Rebuild everything that got burnt and just be a happy Baltimore. I just want to be a happy Baltimore again.
SIDNER: How hard will that be? Because some people will argue that it was not a happy Baltimore before.
THOMAS: Right. But I hope and pray through all of this it will be a better Baltimore. And be a happy Baltimore by getting along, you know, neighborhood get along with other neighborhoods. Just like one big happy family if it's possible.
SIDNER: Reporter: you saw that yesterday. I mean you kept commenting on the fact that you were watching that happen.
THOMAS: Yes, yes. I kept watching and people having -- even little kids out there dancing, having fun. Didn't care what color they was, how big they were -- everybody. They're having a good time.
SIDNER: Can you describe what this neighborhood is like normally on a day not like today or yesterday?
THOMAS: People go about their business. Go to the store. Go here. Go there. And do their thing throughout the day. But go back to their normal life. They will go to their normal life.
SIDNER: Do you think the city leaders are now listening in a different way than they did before this happened with Freddie Gray?
THOMAS: Yes, they listen to the young people. The young people got a voice now. They're actually listening. You know, at first they wasn't listening. Maybe it took this for them to listen. But now they're listening, sitting down talking to them. You know, pastors coming out talking to them. They actually listen to the kids.
SIDNER: Thank you so much.
THOMAS: They have a voice. The kids have a voice.
SIDNER: Thank you Yvonne.
THOMAS: You're welcome.
SIDNER: Yvonne -- thank you very much. Yvonne Thomas lived in Baltimore, Maryland for 51 years, her entire life, talking about the fact that she'd never seen anything like what happened last night, when the community came together in such a big, a big way -- Poppy.
HARLOW: And I'm so glad we're here and also, Sara, from the youth of this city, one of the young students telling me we're being heard now and we have a lot to say. It's a conversation that needs to be happening. Sara -- thanks so much for that.
I want to bring in my panel now: Tom Fuentes is with me, he's former FBI deputy director; also defense attorney Danny Cevallos; and former Maryland State police officer Neill Franklin who also served for the Baltimore Police Department. Guys -- thank you for being here.
I just want your perspective from law enforcement and legal perspective. Tom Fuentes, lifting the curfew -- that is what a lot of people here are celebrating right now. Was it the right call at the right time?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think so. And it's just wonderful to hear what's going on out here tonight. The drum beat. I played drums in school -- I love it.
But I also noticed the guardsmen behind us clapping and going along with the music. And you know music and drumming is the universal language. And I think it's really coming through tonight out here.
HARLOW: Danny Cevallos was dancing.
DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. That was supposed to remain off camera -- Poppy.
HARLOW: Sorry.
CEVALLOS: How dare you? But you know, this is what the first amendment was designed for. This is the glory of that freedom of speech and that freedom of assembly. This is the entire idea behind that precious amendment to the constitution. It's really a special thing here tonight.
HARLOW: Neill Franklin to you -- as someone who served on with the Baltimore police, you left. Full disclosure of yours -- you were fired from the force in 2004.
NEILL FRANKLIN, FORMER BALTIMORE POLICE: Full disclosure, I asked to be fired because the story needed to be told.
HARLOW: You asked to be fired.
I'm glad you corrected me there, sir. But, you know, as someone who was an officer in this city, are you hopeful from what you're seeing transpire now?
FRANKLIN: Well, not just someone who worked as a police officer here, as a head of training in Baltimore, but I grew up in this town. My mother still lives in the same house she's been in for 55 years in reservoir hill.
So, you know, I'm very happy to see this. I'm very happy that the curfew has been lifted. I think that's what part of this celebration is about. And as Tom said earlier, returning back to normal which is not really what we need, we need to go beyond normal as it relates to some of the conditions here.
The young people are being heard tonight. And that's extremely important. Their voice is being heard but the police officers who want to report wrongdoing, we need to make a space for them to be heard.
HARLOW: Yes. That's what --
FRANKLIN: I saw a sign earlier.
[19:09:58] HARLOW: It's a very good point because you need police. Communities need police. I heard some people say this week, we can police ourselves. No that's not what this nation is built on -- you cannot police yourself.
FRANKLIN: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
CEVALLOS: Oh yes, we need them.
HARLOW: But it needs to be done in a constructive way.
Tom Fuentes, you were very angered yesterday by some of the comments you heard at the rally held here at city hall. And you said this is anarchy in some way.
FUENTES: Right. The gentleman that was shouting right out here yesterday for almost two straight hours was advocating that we need no police. All police are pigs. Everybody in jail should be let out. That is the very definition of anarchy. And that would just -- you know, the downside of that is horrible. It's unspeakable. We don't need that.
What we need are these kids that are out here now that came dancing by us ten feet away and the drumbeat and the music and the chanting is beautiful. That's what we need.
HARLOW: And quickly before I go, Danny, from a legal perspective, the mayor has said they will prosecute the people responsible for the violence, the looting this week.
How important is it that that actually is followed through when that happens to also send a message that you may be angry but you cannot react in that way?
CEVALLOS: It's critically important. Not only to deter future conduct like that, but to assure those who would peacefully protest that the police are cutting out, they're making a differentiation between those who are committing lawful acts and protesting lawfully, and those people that are committing crime. It's important from a deterrent effect to prosecute those offenders.
HARLOW: All right guys. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Danny, Neill, Tom -- thank you very much.
And when you look at the city, everyone is asking right now what is next for the city of Baltimore, a city that's seen looting but also a city that has seen unity after the death of Freddie Gray?
We're going to talk about what's next for Baltimore, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:14:56] HARLOW: You're taking a look at crowds gathering here at city hall today in Baltimore enjoying a moment -- a day of peace, a day of celebration, a day of apparent healing and coming together, marching bands in the streets.
Nick Valencia is with a person who organized this display of Baltimore spirit. Nick -- for the first time in half an hour, I can hear myself think because the marching bands were so loud. It was a beautiful sight.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, it was so impressive. We owe a lot of that gratitude and this scene here to this next woman we're about to introduce you to -- Nesha Chase. You were telling me that this is what Baltimore is all about, right?
NESHA CHASE, ORGANIZER OF UNITY MARCH: Right. Basically this is like, 26 different marching bands in the community. We represent each community in Baltimore city. We've been doing this for about at least about 45 years. Marching been in existence for like 45 years in Baltimore city.
You know, the mayor she has taken away our rec centers, she's taken away our funding for our kids. We've been doing this, a lot of the marching band directors -- we do this out of love, out of our own pockets. And the mayor, she don't help us. You know, the city don't help us.
We came together to show that we need our rec centers opened. We came today to show that we need funding. All these kids that's out here today, they could be doing anything wrong -- anything. They could be robbing. They could be looting right now. But we just showed that we come in peace, that we really come if peace. And we need the mayor to open up and to come into this rec centers and show us that she love us like we love Baltimore City.
VALENCIA: Nesha, we've been here all day and I've not seen as many smiles as I saw when your marching band showed up. This is something, a moment of encouragement for the city when it needed it the most.
CHASE: Well, yes. They're our babies. She's two.
VALENCIA: What's your name? Gosh, aren't you beautiful? What's your name? She's a little camera shy.
CHASE: We came out to really show the community, really show the mayor that this is what we're about. We serve you. We -- you know, we take these children off the street. One band might hold about 150 members. If we take 150 youth off the street and you have 26 bands, how much youth is that? That's a lot of youth. If you open up these rec centers and give us funding, a lot of the problems that you're having, guess what, would be resolved but until you do that, you're going to have problems with the youth. You're going to have it.
Right now, we're on her grass, we're showing her we need the support, that we need the help and if she don't see this now, then guess what, she don't love us. VALENCIA: It's certainly a labor of love for you. Nesha Chase, thank
you so much for what you do for the city of Baltimore and for this incredible sight we see.
Poppy -- we're going to send it back to you.
HARLOW: Nick -- thanks so much. That little girl is too cute. So let's talk about how Baltimore heals, moves forward -- what change needs to happen. You heard some of the complaints there from that woman that Nick just spoke with. People here want change and they want it fast. It doesn't always happen fast but they want to see progress.
Let's bring in a big local voice here in Baltimore, radio host Marc Steiner of the "Marc Steiner Show". Thanks for being here.
MARC STEINER, RADIO HOST: Pleasure to be here.
HARLOW: Good to have you on again tonight. Look, we just heard from that young woman who said --
STEINER: Yes.
HARLOW: -- the mayor took away our rec centers. I don't know all the local politics. This isn't my town. This is your town. What is needed?
STEINER: Right. Rec centers have been closed. There are no places for kids in most communities to go, in the neighborhoods to go play basketball, have tutoring, whatever that happens to be.
HARLOW: It's a budget issue?
STEINER: It's a budget issue but it's also a lack of creative thinking. I mean you can hire people and bring people from communities into that. Police can do it off hours. Teachers can work off hours. Communities can be brought in to run those rec centers. It doesn't have to be a large budget item if they don't have it. You can make that work. We don't think creatively about city issues. We just say it's money --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: These are elected leaders. These are people elected by the people they represent.
STEINER: I think what you're seeing here, though, is something that's moving toward something very different. You're feeling like a democracy bubbling up from the bottom. It's going to be different, and it's going to be different in the 2016 elections. It's going to be huge.
People are not going to -- just like when they elected the state's attorney, she was elected because it was an upsurge and uproar over police behavior that why Bernstein lost and that's why Mosby won. HARLOW: So interesting, right. If you look back to 1965, right, and
you look back to the Voting Rights Act, the way to make your voice heard is to vote, right? So talk to me about how this is going to effect 2016, how many youth that can now vote in this city you think will?
STEINER: There's been a massive voting registration campaign. But the Voting Rights Act didn't happen until things like this happened. People sacrificed their lives, sat in, got hurt, got killed to make voting rights happen so people are standing up now to make things change.
They're going to register people en masse in this city. You're going to see a movement building in the next two years like that's never been I think in this city. There's that potential, anyway.
HARLOW: How has it been in terms of past elections, in terms of the youth getting involved in voting here?
[19:20:03] STEINER: Nobody votes. The turnout is extremely low in Baltimore -- extremely low. 12 percent, 13 percent in the last election -- there's nothing.
What I'm saying -- there's new energy here. We'll see if that translates itself into that kind of voting power and you see what you have out here -- this the drum corps you have out here? This little piece of Baltimore, this is Baltimore. Baltimore, New Orleans -- are the only two places in the country that have this. This is huge in our communities.
HARLOW: Yes. It's beautiful to see.
STEINER: Yes.
HARLOW: Marc -- thanks so much.
STEINER: My pleasure, as always.
HARLOW: It's good to have you on the program in the past two nights alone -- a local voice from here. I appreciate it.
Well, you know, the Baltimore community is asking for help, reaching out for help rebuilding structurally and emotionally. If you'd like to help some of the 200 businesses destroyed on Monday night in the rioting go to CNN.com/impact. Again -- CNN.com/impact.
Some parts of Baltimore are mired in poverty. It's really stunning when you look at some of these numbers. People are desperate for opportunity. How do you help them rise up? We're going to talk about that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:24:47] HARLOW: The unrest sparked by the death of Freddie Gray here in Baltimore has not only put a spotlight on that case, it's put a spotlight on poverty and on unemployment in a number of urban areas here.
Let's talk about it. Joining me, retired Maryland State police officer and former officer with the Baltimore police Neill Franklin; also with me, Robert Valentine who is a veteran and who has also served as a mediator in these recent weeks between police and protesters. Guys -- thank you for being here.
I wanted to just dig into some of the numbers because I think they're really important and emblematic of what's going on here. When you look at Samtown -- that's a part of west Baltimore where Freddie Gray lived -- numerous reports including the "The New York Times" reporting that that part of Baltimore has twice the rate of unemployment, poverty, homicides and shootings per capita. You're a former Baltimore police officer. Why is it that some places here are so much worse off than the rest of the city?
FRANKLIN: Well, I think there are a number of factors that come into play. Number one here in Baltimore there are certain parts of the city that have never recovered from the 1968 riots. In addition to that we have policies of drug enforcement in this country that are extremely central to this. I mean, it's not the only thing, but it's one leg of the three-legged stool. We have poverty conditions, we have education conditions, we have health issues. But we have never properly dealt with the so-called war on drugs. We place criminal justice first when this is a public health issue. We shouldn't be using cops to solve a public health issue.
HARLOW: Listen to this -- two decades ago, city officials injected more than $130 million into Samtown, right? The part of Baltimore where Freddie Gray lived and the part of Baltimore that is dealing with such inequity and, you know, a number of problems -- high homicide rate, et cetera. You look at it even after that injection of money, things haven't changed. Why is that?
FRANKLIN: You take one little area and inject all of this money, but you haven't dealt with the surrounding issues. In the bordering neighborhoods that filter in, I mean you just can't just, you know, pick one small community and not deal with the other outlying communities at the same time because it filters in. You know --
HARLOW: Then you're saying it's money wasted.
FRANKLIN: I believe it's money wasted and still when we're dumping so much money into criminal justice, when we can be using that for health and education and other issues. The other side of that coin is because of our criminal justice policies and drug enforcement we're arresting so many people. Do you know what one arrest does to a family? You send that whole family to prison.
HARLOW: You have to arrest for -- I mean --
FRANKLIN: You've seen the numbers on arrests, right? Going back to 2005 in this city -- 108,000 arrests -- yes, I know some of them were multiple arrests.
HARLOW: A sixth of the population of Baltimore. FRANKLIN: Absolutely. We can't survive that. This community can't
survive those types of numbers. We have to get law enforcement out of this business of drug enforcement, these low-level drug offenses and bring in health practitioners, treatment programs and education to deal with our --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Robert Valentine, as a member of the community who's lived here for years, do you agree with Neill that officers have to get out of the business of drug enforcement? Isn't it also important to enforce -- you know, I'm not talking about just marijuana here -- I'm talking about more severe drugs, heroin, cocaine? I mean, at some point, don't you need enforcement on that front?
ROBERT VALENTINE, VETERAN: Let them be the paramilitary but let the family and the community heal itself. Let them go in clean up house. Let them go in and raise hell with their children. Make them right.
HARLOW: Here's the thing. Sometimes that parents aren't there or aren't involved.
VALENTINE: Why aren't they there?
That's the thing you have to (inaudible) -- you have to give them the support from the state, from the council here, give them that support to back them up, let them know they aren't alone.
HARLOW: On that front, I want to read you something that stood out to me in this front page article in "The New York Times" today. I'm talking about one member of the community from Samtown where Freddie Gray was from -- it's an 18-year-old young man they were speaking with. He said, this 18-year-old who said he works at a Foot Locker could not remember how long his mother had battled addiction. "My mother is 46," he said, "maybe over 25 years." His father had been in prison serving a life sentence since Mr. Morgan was one-year-old. Mr. Morgan who also lost two older brothers -- one is in prison for murder. The other was shot and killed in 2008. Is that a rarity?
VALENTINE: No.
If they were brought up the right way, if they recognized that mom and dad have their problems, they still have to make a life of their own. But they have to assume responsibility for that. (inaudible) Will make a big difference -- that's it. They just need guidance. They need guidance.
HARLOW: Robert valentine, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Neill Franklin, thank you very much. It's gotten loud here again as the drums, the marching bands from west Baltimore have started their celebration again. We'll be back live from Baltimore in just a moment.
[19:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARLOW: Welcome back to our live coverage from downtown Baltimore where a huge celebration of marching bands from across this city is going on right now.
I do want to get to some other very important news that we're tracking closely out of downtown Tel Aviv. Clashes between people right on the streets there. 23 offices were hurt when a peaceful demonstration suddenly turned violent. The unrest stemming from a video of an Israeli police officer striking an Israeli soldier in uniform who is of Ethiopian descent.
CNN correspondent Oren Liebermann joins us from downtown Tel Aviv. Oren, Oren, what's the situation now?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRSPONDENT: It has finally quieted down here on the streets of Tel Aviv and in Rabin Square which is really the central square of Tel Aviv. It's hard to imagine as quiet as it is right now what this looked like a few hours ago. It was in a word chaotic.
There were hundreds of protesters here. Clashes got violent. Police pulled out a number of riot dispersal methods. They used water cannons, had officers on horses, stun grenades, tear gas to try to break up the crowds. The crowds turned violent. They smashed windows of cars. Damaged cars. When they were on the streets, knocking over trash cans. This all escalated.
[19:35:00] Let's talk about where this all comes from. As you mentioned, that video. It came out about a week ago. It shows one Israeli police officer and then another walking up to an Ethiopian- Israeli soldier in uniform and beating him. That tipped the scales here. That's really what sparked this unrest although it comes from a simmering unrest in the Ethiopian community that feel they've been discriminated against for years.
The viral video was the tipping point. There was a Thursday night demonstration in Jerusalem. That led to this demonstration in Tel Aviv. It started peacefully. Right around 3:30 this afternoon, there were 500 or 600 protesters where this all started. You can see those lights, those buildings way behind me. That's where this began as a peaceful protest.
Five hundred or 600 protesters blocking the streets and police said, "look, if this stays peaceful, we'll go with it." It stayed that way. Both sides there showing restraint for a number of hours but something happened there. There was a tipping point. And that's when this really exploded to the violent clashes of the evening that happened here in Rabin Square and on the streets around Tel Aviv.
It took police hours to break it up. At the end of the night the latest numbers we have so far, 23 officers injured and 26 arrested. Although there are investigations going on, those numbers could change.
HARLOW: Oren, what has Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said about this? I wonder what's happening tomorrow from, you know, members of the government there?
LIEBERMANN: So Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu released a statement a short time ago on Facebook urging restraint, he's not the only one pushing for that. Ethiopian leaders have also said show restraint, scale back, don't let this turn into a violent protest. All sides really trying to keep this in check, keep it under control. Tomorrow's a very big day because even before today's protests were announced, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he would meet with leaders of the Ethiopian community as well as the victim in that video to try to ease some of the tensions.
This, of course, can't just be solved with a meeting. I mentioned these are long-simmering tensions. The Ethiopian community here feels they've been discriminated against for years. But perhaps tonight's demonstrations and the demonstrations Thursday night in Jerusalem can be the catalyst for the beginning of change for the Ethiopians to feel like they're not discriminated against here in Israel.
So that might be the silver lining of what happens tonight. It depends on what comes out of those meetings. Again, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu meeting with leaders of the Ethiopian community, meeting with the victim in the video as well as other security leaders and authorities in Jerusalem.
HARLOW: Oren, thank you very much reporting for us live there where it's the middle of the night in Tel Aviv. We'll keep a very close eye on this, monitor the situation for you, of course.
Coming up next as we return to our story here in Baltimore - who will lead Baltimore's revival and healing after what we've seen in recent weeks? Will it be Baltimore's clergy, ministers and pastors who have witnessed the problems and the need in their communities? They are ready to act. What are they doing? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:42:00] HARLOW: We've seen the riots, we've seen the rallies. What comes next for this city? I'm Poppy Harlow, joining you live tonight in Baltimore. With me, criminal defense attorney and HLN legal analyst, Joey Jackson and also former Baltimore police officer, Neill Franklin. Guys, thanks for being here. As we hear the drum marcher and the drums of the jubilant marching bands that have come to city hall, certainly a change of what we've seen the past week.
FRANKLIN: Very talented, by the way.
HARLOW: Very talented and good dancers as well. But on a much more serious note, look, this is a community, many have risen up, Neill because they said former colleagues of yours, current Baltimore Police officers do not understand them, are not there to help them. And the officers, you know, their job is to - is to protect these communities. And frankly, there are a lot of good officers. So I'm wondering how you bridge the gap. Because it's stunning to me to find there's no official survey that tracks officer-involved killings in this country.
FRANKLIN: I did - I started an online - a change.org petition for that. For the Justice Department to start tracking those killings around the country. Because we have no idea of how many are occurring.
But, again, that's after the fact. We have to start moving forward to prevent the killing from happening in the first place. So here in Baltimore, this could be ground zero for that. This could be the beginning of that. And I hope that it is.
We need a formal process to begin where the voices continue to be heard, not just of our young people, but of our police officers, you know, who want to do a good job, who want to partner with the community, who want that relationship to be established and built with the community. You know what, among those ranks, there are some very good leaders already doing that and can continue to make that happen.
It's been said that there's just a few police officers in among these ranks that's causing the problems for the many and making it dangerous for the many. Well, how do we go about getting rid of those? Identifying those officers? How about creating a safe place for those officers to come forward and to speak that so we don't end up with another situation like detective Joe Crystal who attempted that and came out one morning and found a dead rat on his car and he now no longer works for the department but is in another state.
HARLOW: Joey Jackson, to you, one of the things I've heard a lot, when I was covering the protesters in Philadelphia earlier this week to the people here in Baltimore telling me the criminal justice system needs to change, some of the protesters telling me why are so many people incarcerated for nonviolent crimes?
We've heard Hillary Clinton, presidential candidate, address it this week in her speech at Columbia. Do you a, think there needs to be a change in the criminal justice system and do you think we're going to see it in the near term?
[19:44:58] JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I really hope so, Poppy. Here's the story, you know, the criminal justice system is predicated around three principles. One is punishment. The second one is deterrence. And the third one is really rehabilitation. And when you look at those, certainly people, crimes, if they're violent, need to be punished and deterrence has value in that you want those individuals committing the crimes to be deterred, and specifically, and general people who would commit crimes to be deterred as well.
But the rehabilitation aspect is so critical and it's been so often said, Poppy, if you're not a criminal when you go to jail, you will be one when you get out of there. And so the reality is is for nonviolent crimes and for people who have some sense of humanity and who really need an opportunity and a second chance, I'm hopeful that reforms can be instituted to allow them to contribute positively to the community.
HARLOW: Let me ask you this, and we're sort of sharing the microphone here because it is so loud. Let me ask withdrew this. Tom Fuentes, former FBI assistant director, former police officer said to me yesterday, he was very upset to hear what some of the rally yesterday here, Neill, were saying about we don't need the police, we can police ourselves. He said it's basically anarchy. Do you believe in large part this is a community that does want to work side by side with the police and those voices are just a minority?
FRANKLIN: Well, just on - pay attention to the person who's chanting. Those aren't the sentiments of the city of the residents of Baltimore City. We know that's not realistic. We need the police to go after violent criminals, robberies, rapes, domestic violence, crimes against our children. That's what we want the police doing.
What we don't want the police trying to solve our public health issues such, again, as drug use. I'm going to keep coming back to that because we have to sever the pipelines of people going into prison in the first place, of people being arrested in the first place because even if they're arrested for a minor drug crime and they don't do time in prison, that arrest record prevents them from getting a job.
As my partner said here, when you go to prison, if you're expecting people to come back into community and just do well all of a sudden, you know, you're delusional. We have to keep people from going into prison, being recruited by gangs when they're in prison then coming back out with an arrest record, a conviction, and they can't get a job.
A good friend of mine, Jack (INAUDIBLE), says, you know what, you can get over an addiction, but you'll never get over a conviction. So let's start working on these drug laws which never worked in the first place. Counterproductive to public safety. Because they create crime, they create violence. It's a foundation for it. Then our police have to go out and deal with that.
HARLOW: Some would say what about the people who aren't addicted? What about the people who are just profiting from selling it as well? Those people should be prosecuted.
FRANKLIN: As I said, regulate it and control it. We did this once before. We were here once before back in the 1920s. We had drive-by shootings, running gun battles and those people weren't addicted. They just wanted the money.
HARLOW: Neill Franklin, thank you very much, Joey Jackson. Got to go, get a break in here. A quick break. Our other top stories after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:51:49] HARLOW: Well, some say Baltimore is a city with a church on every corner. Baltimore's clergy may have a crucial role in the healing of the city, the mending of the frayed edges of unrest. I want to show you this scene from Monday night.
Baltimore's church leaders holding the line standing between a store and potential looters. It's moments like these that show the power of faith-based leaders right in this community. Bishop Angel Nunez joins me again now on the program. Thanks for being with me. BISHOP ANGEL NUNEZ, SENIOR PASTOR BILINGUAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH OF
BALTIMORE: Thank you for having me again.
HARLOW: Take me back to Monday night. What was that moment like versus what we're seeing now?
NUNEZ: Well, Monday night we received a call that they were asking for faith-based peacemakers to the location. My office is about 10 minutes away so I ran down there without realizing I was walking into a major crisis.
In front of me, the police behind me, the rioters. And just throwing things back and forth. We were in the middle. My purpose was to be a light of peace, to talk to those that were upset. I was very surprised. They would shake my hand and say thank you for being here. And then continue to riot.
HARLOW: Did you get the sense that a lot of the people out there, not the violent rioters, but the peaceful protesters which are the majority of them, just want to be heard? Really heard?
NUNEZ: They want to be heard but they want action, too. You know, hear what I'm saying, but at the same time, help me respond to that, and if we don't address this, we're going to face this in different parts of our nation.
HARLOW: There is a huge unemployment crisis in the city, especially for young black men. 37 percent unemployment. In parts of downtown, for example, where Freddie Gray is from it's double that number.
NUNEZ: Yes.
HARLOW: Some people might say, well what can my religious leader do, what can my pastor do, what can my rabbi do, what can my imam do?
NUNEZ: Right. What we have to do is come together first as one voice and be able to address the needs, the economic needs, opportunity, education. We belong to a group that's called the Reconcile Church. We're trying to find national leaders to come, invest in our community be able to give these young people a hope, a dream to be able to prosper.
HARLOW: You know, a "Washington Post" article, the city of Baltimore is called a churched city. I wonder when it comes to getting people not even just to go to traditional church, but to be more involved in their community, also a lot of that has to do with voting. And getting people out to vote to elect the leaders they want to make the change they're calling for.
NUNEZ: Absolutely.
HARLOW: I was just joined by a local radio host here, (INAUDIBLE), who told me voting here last time around was abysmal. 12 percent participation.
NUNEZ: Exactly. HARLOW: Des that change going forward?
NUNEZ: It has to change. What we have to do as a church is be able to reach all segments of the population. We have the African- American, we have the Latino, we have the Anglo churches. And so what we need to do is to come together. We need a multicultural prayer movement that consists of over 400 churches in this region. There are over 2,000 churches in Baltimore, alone.
[19:55:06] The church has such a tremendous power and impact, if we can just get it together and be able to love, invest and give to our community.
HARLOW: Angel Nunez, thanks for being with me. I appreciate it. Nice to meet you.
NUNEZ: Thank you. You take care, yourself.
HARLOW: You, too. I want to get to my colleague Deb Feyerick in New York for a check of other stop stories. Hey, Deb.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there. Thanks, Poppy.
Checking some of the weekend's top stories. Retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, a Republican, who lived in Baltimore for many years tells Sinclair Broadcasting, "I'm announcing my candidacy for president of the United States of America."
But wait. Carson's spokesperson tells CNN the comment was not Carson's official announcement of his candidacy. Carson has scheduled an announcement tomorrow in his hometown of Detroit.
And some boxing fans are already calling for a rematch between Victor Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao. Mayweather won last night's showdown in Las Vegas. Love for the Pacman runs deep in his native Philippines. Fans want a do-over for their hero. He's not just a boxer but also a congressman, singer and basketball coach. That is Manny, of course.
Well, one of the sport world's most famous couples decided to call it quits. Olympic skier Lindsey Vonn announced on Facebook today that she and Tiger Woods have parted ways after three years of dating. The couple blamed their busy schedule saying they've been force to spend the majority of their time apart. They were last spotted together in April at the Master's golf tournament.
And a day after the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge showed off their newborn daughter the world's still waiting to learn the new princess' name. According to betting companies in the UK, Charlotte is coming in as the favorite. That's in the guessing game. Followed by Alice. Other popular options, Olivia, Victoria, and Diana, the name of Prince Williams' late mom.
CNN's Max Foster takes a look at how the baby's birth was celebrated across the UK.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A baby princess is welcomed into the world. Just over 10 hours after giving birth, the Duchess of Cambridge looked radiant. The Duke beaming beside her as they emerged from St. Mary's Hospital with their little girl. 8 pounds, 3 ounces.
In front of hundreds of cameras and well wishers, Kate settled her new baby into a waiting car. William got behind the wheel and drove his family home to Kensington Palace.
The news of the birth was announced on twitter. And then moments later, by a traditional town crier.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: It's a girl! It's a girl!
FOSTER: It was a happy moment that hundreds have waited for outside the hospital. Some since the beginning of April.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a baby girl. What more can we want? Over 8 pounds. George was 8 pound 6.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you happy?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm over the moon. I feel like I had the baby myself. I'm so elated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A baby was born and not just any baby, a royal baby. And not just any royal baby, a princess.
AMANDA, PORTLAND, OREGON: This is one of the most amazing feelings. I know it's kind of - it's a silly feeling, but it's so fun to be a part of it. I have to kind of catch myself, take a step back and really soak it all in.
FOSTER: One of the princess' first visitors was her brother. Prince George. William had been in the delivery room momentarily leaving the hospital to collect his 22-month-old son. But in 20 minutes, he was back. The toddler making his first public appearance since the royal tour of Australia a year ago. William willed the little prince to walk. He preferred to be carried but delighted the crowd with a wave.
The British public had wagered on a baby sister for George. And London icons lit up with the news. Crowds flocked to Buckingham Palace to see the official notice mounted on an easel in the court. Retailers would also welcome the princess who's expected to inject more than $1.5 billion into the British economy over her lifetime. Just hours old and already the darling of the media, and the public alike.
Max Foster, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: A lot of joy there in London. Those are the headlines. Poppy? HARLOW: Covering the events right here in Baltimore. You can keep up with the latest developments on cnn.com.
Ahead for you tonight, first two hours of Anthony Bourdain's starting with "PARTS UNKNOWN" in South Korea then at 9:00 p.m. Eastern an all new episode, Anthony Bourdain in Miami. He discovers the Miami sound with a little help from Questlove and his music idol.
At 10:00 Eastern tonight an all new "HIGH PROFITS."
I'm Poppy Harlow joining you live from Baltimore for our special coverage. Thanks so much for being with me this weekend. Good night.
