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NEW DAY SUNDAY
Comparing Freddie Gray and Eric Garner; US Student Detained in North Korea; Baltimore's Women Leaders in the Spotlight. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired May 3, 2015 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: The question this morning, will there be another curfew tonight? We'll get an announcement about that probably some time mid afternoon.
Overall, though, it was a calm day across Baltimore. Hundreds turned out in the streets to rally peacefully. There was a lot of music and dancing, a celebratory environment after the announcement of the charges against those six officers involved with the death of Freddie Gray.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROTESTERS: All day, all day, we will fight for Freddie Gray. All night, all day, we will fight for Freddie Gray.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Protesters also gathered outside of City Hall.
Meanwhile, many of the community want officials to drop the curfew, as we've said, but officials say that people need to be patient.
Now, with all of the attention here in Baltimore, the family of Eric Garner is now renewing their call for justice. The 43-year-old man died while being held down by police last summer. Garner's widow and his mother, noting the similarities between his death and the death of Freddie Gray.
Sara Ganim takes a look at the cases.
GANIM (voiceover): The arrest of six Baltimore police officers in Freddie Gray's death has renewed calls for justice for Eric Garner, the 43rd-year-old father who died after being placed in an apparent chokehold by an NYPD officer last year.
ERIC GARNER, KILLED BY POLICE CHOKEHOLD: I can't breathe. I can't breathe.
GANIM: Garner repeated the phrase 11 times during his arrest. Now we learned the 25-year-old Gray also indicated to police officers that he too could not breathe. Esaw Garner spoke about the similarities between her husband's last moments and Gray's.
ESAW GARNER, WIDOW OF ERIC GARNER: The same way the man was screaming for medical attention and they refused to get it or delayed getting was the same way that my husband was screaming, "I can't breathe," and they did not let the EMS workers do what they needed to do for my husband to survive that incident.
GANIM: The grand jury's decision not to indict the officers involved sparked huge demonstrations in New York and reignited a national conversation on police brutality that continues.
In both cases, paramedics were called too late, but law enforcement analysts and former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes says, "It's hard to criticize officers for not immediately calling for help."
FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR TOM FUENTES: Well, the problem is, and having made many, many arrests when I was a street cop myself before joining the FBI, is that that's kind of common that you hear people being arrested that are resisting in any way say they can't breathe or they can't walk or, you know, claiming ailments that they don't really have.
GANIM: In garner's case, the Department of Justice is currently investigating civil-rights violations. His family called for justice in a press conference on Saturday.
GWEN CARR, MOTHER OF ERIC GARNER: People in Baltimore, South Carolina, their prosecutor, they did the right thing. And that's what we need: We need someone to step up and do the right thing.
ESAW GARNER: It's been 10 months, and there has been nothing done to these police officers in regards to Eric Garner. And I'm happy for the other families that they're getting justice, but we need justice here in New York for Eric Garner.
GANIM: But the difference between the two cases make it hard to draw comparisons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, in the Garner case, Garner's resisting a lawful arrest. If he would've complied, he'd still be alive today, and bad things wouldn't have happened from the wrestling match that they end up having on the sidewalk.
In the Gray case, it turns out even the arrest itself was completely unlawful, and then everything bad happens to him afterward. But he shouldn't have been in police custody for anything else bad to happen.
GANIM: Regardless of the outcome of Garner's case, protesters here believe his death added to the national conversation of police brutality, even though justice for Freddie Gray may not mean justice for Eric Garner.
(END VIDEOTAPE) GANIM (on-camera): Of course, Victor, it's hard to compare cases, but protesters here told me that when they heard that Freddie Gray said something along the lines of, "I can't breathe," just like Eric Garner, that gave them renewed hope that the DOJ investigation may lead to some charges in the case of Eric Garner.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Alright, Sara Ganim, thank you so much.
We've got Joey Jackson back with us, legal analyst and criminal- defense attorney.
Is there anything that can happen in the Garner case now that this grand jury decided not to indict? Is there anything that can happen?
JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, there're two things that could happen, Victor.
One is that the family and certainly the community can continue to press for the district attorney to represent the case. That would be unlikely that the district attorney would do that. It's their decision to make, but, you know, there certainly would be enough to preclude that.
The second issue, of course, would be getting the federal government, you know, perhaps to level and move forward with the federal matter.
Now, it's a harder standard, and we've talked about this before, because from a federal perspective, you have to prove evilness, wickedness, spite in terms of the deprivation of the civil right. What's that civil right? The right not to have excessive force used against you.
You know, it depends upon what the federal government wants to do in terms of moving forward in that case.
BLACKWELL: Let's talk about this new reporting on the Freddie Gray case from the Baltimore Sun.
They were granted exclusive access to the police department's investigation, and they said that the police department -- or they reported that the police department found that one of its officers said that Freddie Gray had a case of "jailitis," a fake illness that -- inferring that he didn't want to go back to jail and he was faking all of these -- these -- these ills.
JACKSON: You know, the problem with that, Victor, is that, you know, certain people are not qualified to make certain assumptions.
I don't know, you know, from a legal perspective, if someone's faking it. It's not my call to make. Police officers certainly don't know if someone's faking it.
So it's always better to err on the side of safety. It's a judgment call, but you're not a medic, you don't know, and if somebody's ailing, certainly, you should take any steps you can to assist them.
BLACKWELL: Again, it speaks to the call for that medical support, that medical help that he did not get.
JACKSON: Exactly. And in this case, we're seeing that's huge, because in the case here with Freddie Gray, what the state's attorney is saying is that, "You deliberately ignored his request, and you were so negligent, that is so careless, and, you know, in -- in -- in one case, so depraved from doing it, we're charging you with either manslaughter or second-degree murder."
BLACKWELL: Alright. Joey Jackson, thank you so much. Stick around throughout the morning.
BLACKWELL: We'll continue the conversation.
Christi, coming up in a few minutes, we'll look closer at the powerful women here in Baltimore. You've got the mayor of the city, the state's attorney, also, the head of the National Guard here trying to maintain calm and order. So we'll have that for you coming up in just a moment.
PAUL: Alrighty. Hey, looking forward to it. Thank you, Victor.
We do have a CNN exclusive we want to share with you today, too.
Two accused spies jailed in North Korea are now speaking to CNN, and we're learning Pyongyang has detained another South Korean, this time, a New York University student.
We're going to take you live to North Korea next. Stay close.
PAUL: 40 minutes past the hour right now, and a South Korean college student, who lives in New Jersey, is now in the hands of North Korea. North Korea says it detained 21-year-old Joo Won Moon after he allegedly crossed into that country from China. The U.S. permanent resident is a student at New York University.
Now, this is coming as CNN is being given exclusive access to two other South Koreans being held in North Korea right now. North Korea contends that they're spies.
CNN's Will Ripley joins us from Pyongyang right now.
Will, we understand that -- that you've talked to these two men, but first, I want to talk about this student. What do you know about him -- that's being held?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we arrived here in Pyongyang yesterday, Christi, and as soon as we got in the car, the government minder who we are working with mentioned this arrest to me, and, of course, we expressed our interest in speaking with -- with him, we know, as you mentioned, a 20-year-old NYU student, a South Korean citizen with a -- with a United States resident green card.
We are told that they will work on giving us access to this young man, but they are not making any promises, and they we wouldn't reveal any other information other than what is being reported right now in state media. So we have very little to go on, and we don't know if we're going to be able to speak to this young man.
But as we see here in North Korea and as we saw this morning with these two accused South Korean spies, in an instant, we are often told that we're going to an interview, we walk into the room, and then it begins.
PAUL: OK. So just real quickly, I know you said we don't know much about this student, but do we know where this student's family is? Is the family in South Korea? Are they in the U.S. Do we know why he was there?
RIPLEY: We -- we -- we don't know at all why the student crossed into North Korea, allegedly illegally. Again, being that he's a South Korean citizen, we're still working to gather details about his family, but we believe they are in South Korean, and we don't think at this point that they've had any contact with him yet.
PAUL: OK. Let's talk about these two South Koreans who are accused of being spies. What did they tell you?
RIPLEY: It was fascinating, Christi.
One is a -- is a business man, and the other, a missionary, Kim Kuk Gi and Che Chun Gil. These men, their arrests were actually announced by the North Korean government last month.
And while the South Korean government denies that these men are spies, if what they're telling us is accurate, then it paints an interesting picture of how South Korea's National Intelligence Service, the NIS, allegedly operates.
These men claim that they were both working in China. Again, one is a missionary. The other is a businessman. And they were approached and recruited by the South Korean government to cross illegally into North Korea and gather intelligence -- also accused of distributing religious propaganda, trying to steal sensitive materials and information.
And what really struck me, Christi, is that these are two men, both middle-aged, with no previous spy training, espionage experience, who claim that they were brought in by the South Korean government and tasked with very serious intelligence operations, including gathering intel on Kim Jong Un and -- and, again, trying to steal sensitive government information.
I asked him why they would be paid? One man says over the course of nine years, he was paid half a million U.S. dollars to do this. I said, "Why would a government take somebody with no experience and put them in this position," and he told me, "There are a lot of other people just like me." And he told me, Christi, that they're being influenced not only by the South Korean government but the Americans as well. I asked him if he ever had -- if he had ever had any direct communication with anybody from the United States. He said, no, he dealt through an intermediary.
So obviously a lot of skepticism and outright denials on the South Korean government side that these men are who North Korea is accusing them of being. But nonetheless, a fascinating discussion.
We'll get the video in as soon as we can, and you'll be able to hear more of what they had to say.
PAUL: OK. Looking forward to that. Nice job.
Will Ripley, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
You know, they're the faces of Baltimore, the new faces -- the city's mayor, its state's attorney, the head of Maryland's military -- and they're all young women, and they're all African American.
What they want to achieve for Baltimore, that's next. Stay close.
Also, this week's "Ones to Watch" series is capturing the work of one of the world's most creative young artists. Here, we're meeting Irish photographer Richard Mosse, who found a creative new use for a device that's intended to uncover camouflage in war zones.
RICHARD MOSSE, PHOTOGRAPHER (voiceover): In 2009, Kodak announced the discontinuation of a film that they make called Aerochrome.
The film itself was invented in World War II in collaboration with the U.S. military, who designed it originally for camouflage detection. So they're trying to reveal the enemy hidden in the landscapes.
I bought as much as I could, and then I said, "So where will I take it? Where does this need to be taken? In what way can this film tell a story better than any other film"?
And I discovered that, really, you know, there's an ongoing civil-war situation in Eastern Congo, the Democratic Republic of Congo, which doesn't really get much press. It's very inaccessible. It takes six days to get in and get out.
For me, it takes months and months and months of footwork. You have to choreograph this whole thing, then you have to get the right camera into that situation, and then you have to wait for the right light, and then you have to hope that your subject doesn't disappear back into the jungle.
The work from Congo's been exhibited widely internationally. Venice Biennale, it represented Ireland, my home country, which was a great honor. And after that, the exhibition of the enclave was shown all over the world. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PAUL: What stories we see through that.
You can check out the full show at cnn.com/onestowatch.
BLACKWELL: Welcome back to NEW DAY SUNDAY. I'm Victor Blackwell, live in Baltimore.
You know, The death of Freddie Gray and the continued fallout from what has happened to him has thrust three women in Baltimore into the spotlight: the city's mayor, its state's attorney and the head of the Maryland National Guard.
CNN's Stephanie Elam takes a look at these three women and tells us what they want for Baltimore.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): This may the popular image of a powerful woman in Baltimore. But the real battle for peace, justice and civil rights is being waged by these women.
MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE (D), BALTIMORE: If, with the nation watching, three black women at three different levels can't get justice and healing for this community, you tell me where we're going to get it.
ELAM: That's right. The mayor, the state's attorney and the head of Maryland's military are all black women.
RAWLINGS-BLAKE: I love this city, and I know we can be better than what we have seen.
ELAM: Perhaps the face of Baltimore politics, Stephanie Rawlings- Blake is the city's mayor.
A former public defender, Rawlings-Blake walked away with nearly 90 percent of the general vote in 2011 to win her first full term. A Baltimore native, she was first elected to the city council when she was just 25 years, the youngest person ever to be elected to the Baltimore city council.
A graduate of Oberlin College and the University of Maryland School of Law, the 45-year-old is married and has a daughter.
BALTIMORE CITY STATE'S ATTORNEY MARILYN MOSBY: To the people of Baltimore and the demonstrators across America, I heard your call for, "No justice, no peace." Your peace is sincerely needed, as I want to deliver justice on behalf of this young man.
ELAM: Entering the spotlight, Marilyn Mosby, the compelling 35-year- old is Baltimore's newly elected state's attorney and the one to make the call to charge six police officers in the death of Freddie Gray.
Mosby was the first in her family to earn a college degree, graduating with honors from Tuskegee University and from Boston College Law School. She then joined the Baltimore City State's Attorney's Office before becoming a prosecutor.
Raised in inner-city Boston, Mosby said she learned the value of public service from her grandfather.
MOSBY: He was a founding member of the black police organization in Massachusetts. He was a police officer. My uncles were police officers. My mother was. My father was.
ELAM: And despite criticism from the police union for what it calls a rush to press charges, Mosby says she's sympathetic to officers called to duty.
MOSBY: I understand the time, the commitment, the sacrifice that these police officers make.
And I'm not saying in particularly with this case -- those officers that usurp their authority, you have to hold them accountable, because it does a disservice to the really hardworking police officers.
ELAM: She has two daughters with her husband, Baltimore City Councilmen Nick Mosby.
When asked if her marriage presented a conflict of interest, Mosby said:
MOSBY: He works from the legislative side. I am a prosecutor. I am also a public servant.
I uphold the law. He -- he makes the laws. And I will prosecute any case within my -- my jurisdiction.
ADJUTANT GENERAL OF MARYLAND LINDA SINGH: I did not have any -- any racial issues kind of coming through all of my career. I would have to say that it's been more about me being a female versus, you know, being a male.
ELAM: As the adjutant general from Maryland, Linda Singh is in charge of the state's military department, including its National Guard.
Having just taken the helm in February, Singh is the first black person and the first woman to hold the post. She is also a member of the governor's cabinet.
SINGH: I just hope that we remember that trying to change culture, trying to change habits does not happen overnight.
ELAM: A high school dropout and a runaway, Singh went on to graduate from college, earn two master's degrees and receive a Bronze Star.
The 50-year-old Maryland native is married with two daughters. SINGH: I've kind of grown up in the Maryland Army National Guard, and it's allowing me to be able to put my fingerprint on something and hopefully to leave a legacy and to give people some type of hope.
ELAM: Watching closely, the first black female attorney general of the United States, who took office just as the protests intensified.
All powerful black women whose legacy may forever be tied to this moment in Baltimore's history.
Stephanie Elam, CNN.
BLACKWELL: Stephanie, thank you so much.
Next hour, I'll talk to Marcy Johnson, Baltimore public defender, about the conditions in which those who were arrested were locked up.
Here's what she says in her Facebook post just to look ahead: "The holding cells are 10 by 10 with one open sink and toilet. There are no beds, no blankets or pillows. The cells were designed to hold people for a few hours, not a few days."
So we'll talk more about that. We'll hear what she's doing to help.
PAUL: Edging toward the 7 o'clock hour here, I wanted to share with you some of the stories that are developing this morning.
First of all, Floyd "Money" Mayweather, you know he did it. The still-undefeated boxing champ conquered Manny Pacquiao overnight in one of the biggest, most anticipated fights in history.
Mayweather established his dominance pretty early, landed 148 punches en route to the 12-round unanimous decision.
The 38-year-old, who did not just cement his place as one of the greatest fighters of all time, banked an estimated $180 million payday. Not bad for 36 minutes of work. What do you think?
Also, a come-from-behind win for American Pharaoh at the Kentucky Derby. In dramatic fashion, the highly touted favorite raced past firing line down the stretch, winning by just one length at Churchill Downs in Louisville.
And Britain's newest princess is resting comfortably at home in Kensington Palace after making a royal debut to the world yesterday.
Just one, you know, last thing: her name. Among the top pick for betters, Charlotte, Alice or Olivia. And we are still waiting to find out.
Thank you so much for starting your morning with us. We've got so much more ahead on the next hour of your NEW DAY, which starts right now.
PAUL: Well, Baltimore has had enough of the curfew. A lot of residents want it to be lifted. That's what they're saying.
Police make more arrests, meanwhile, while trying to get everyone off the streets, and once arrested, crowded conditions. Lack of water, using bread as pillows, that's what one public defender says protesters are dealing with when they are taken to jail.