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Gunmen Killed At Mohammed Cartoon Contest; Keynote Speaker At Contest Was On Al Qaeda "Hit List"; Baltimore Prosecutor Denies Conflict of Interest Claims. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 04, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Is that true? You've got better information than I do, Alisyn. As long as we stay on the stories that matter doesn't matter where we are. It's nice to have a little Good Stuff to end the show.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Right, so true. All right, I think I will see you.

CUOMO: A lot of news this morning. I'll see you soon.

There's a lot of news. Let's get you to the NEWSROOM with Carol Costello.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks, Chris. Have a great day. NEWSROOM starts now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[09:00:25] COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We are following breaking news. A law enforcement source just confirmed the name of one of the gunmen killed in a shooting outside a cartoon contest in Texas. The name? Elton Simpson from Phoenix. Now it's believed Simpson sent a tweet prior to the attack claiming responsibility reading, in part, "May Allah accept us as Mujahadin."

Just a short time ago, 1,000 miles away in Phoenix, the FBI began searching his apartment he shared with another suspect. Here's what police say went down in the Dallas suburb of Garland last night.

Two men drove up to the Curtis Caldwell Center, jumped out of their car and began shooting. They hit an unarmed security guard before being shot and killed by police. Inside the building, hundreds were attending a Mohammed art exhibit and cartoon contest being held by the American Freedom Defense Initiative. Now the keynote speaker, a Dutch politician on an al Qaeda hit list and the executive director of an anti-Islam group.

Our correspondent Ed Lavandera is following the latest for us from Texas. Tell us more, Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well you see the scene behind us just beyond these cars. You'll see FBI agents holding a blue tarp. That is where the bodies of the two suspected gunmen are lying on the street. What is interesting, as you look at the scene here, they didn't even make it inside the parking lot of the Civic Center. They had gotten out of the car and started shooting before they, themselves, were shot down.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just need everybody to remain calm, be orderly. I'm going to take you into the auditorium a little further away from the front of this building. Alright?

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Breaking overnight, a deadly scene in a Dallas suburb. Two gunmen shot dead after opening fire and wounding a security guard outside an event center where a cartoon drawing contest of the Prophet Muhammad was being held. Law enforcement officials tell CNN the entire shooting lasted about 15 seconds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We prepared for something like this.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): The security officer, Bruce Joyner, was treated at the hospital for an ankle gunshot wound and released.

This video shows the moment gunfire erupted, an interview with the president of the organization sponsoring the event cut abruptly short as security rushed the scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, we've got to stop this right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired. Shots fired.

(CROSSTALK)

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Witnesses describe the chaotic turn of events.

TOOYA ROBY, WITNESS: There were military or policemen everywhere running.

JOHN ROBY, WITNESS: Sounded like boom, boom. Then next thing, they're telling us get inside, get inside. All the officers, of course, were drawing their weapons.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Attendees were escorted to another room in the conference center where the crowd sang "God Bless America."

(SINGING)

LAVANDERA (voice-over): The event, which included a $10,000 top prize for the best caricature of the Prophet Muhammad, was organized by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, a controversial group which claims they are against Islamic jihad, while others call them a hate group.

Any physical depictions of the Prophet are considered blasphemous to many Muslims and have sparked violence around the world. Sponsors of the contest billed it as a free speech event. The event featured keynote speaker and Right-wing Dutch politician Geert Wilders who is on an Al Qaeda hit list for wanting to ban the Quran in the Netherlands.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (on camera): And, Carol, we had a CNN producer inside the civic center last night covering the event. When the shooting took place, he was able to speak with two witnesses who described a long series of automatic gunfire before hearing two pop pop, and then the entire shooting scenario was over just outside of the building. They were on lockdown for some time.

But there was a great deal of security here last night, Carol. In fact, we were told there was layers of security to get inside, into the event. And then we were told by law enforcement officials that there was also a SWAT Team waiting in the back of the building for a scenario just like this. Carol?

COSTELLO: Alright. Ed Lavandera reporting live from Garland, Texas, this morning. I want to bring in Rosa Flores now. She's been digging into what we know about the suspects. Tell us more.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, I want to start off with just the fact that the FBI is saying that they knew about this guy, that they had been tracing him, and this is information that my colleague Susan Candiotti has been able to dig up for us this morning. But the FBI had been monitoring this guy. They had been following him. And he is from Phoenix.

But I want to start off with that tweet that Carol told you about just moments ago because we've been trying to dissect it, Carol, trying to understand exactly what this tweet says, so let me start by reading it.

[09:05:00] It says, "The bro with me and myself have given bay'ah to Amirul Mu'mineen." We've been translating that to "oath of allegiance." So "My bro and me and myself have given an [oath of allegiance] to a commander of the faithful" is what that means. And again, we're still digging into this because we're trying to make sense of what this is. And then he says, "May Allah accept us as mujahideen."

So the FBI believes that he sent this tweet, Carol, prior to the attack. And starting the hashtag, #TexasAttack. Now that account is now suspended but we were, of course, able to obtain this tweet.

Here's one of the other fascinating things. The FBI already at his apartment at this point in time sifting through evidence, gathering evidence, trying to piece this puzzle together, trying to figure out exactly why this man did this.

As of now we don't have a motive, we don't know his religion, we don't know a lot of things, but we do know that the FBI is there. Again, this is a Phoenix apartment --

COSTELLO: Well, do we know if that -- if those tweets were why there was such a big police presence in Garland?

FLORES: No, we don't. We don't know if that's the case. But we do know that anything regarding cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, they -- police know, authorities know, we all know that that's going to rub an edge for a lot of people. And so police there apparently very well prepared. As you know, as my colleague Ed Lavandera was just telling us right now. But again, we're looking at those tweets. We know that the FBI is sifting through evidence, gathering evidence, and we should know more soon, Carol.

COSTELLO: Okay, so I'll let you get back at it. Rosa Flores, many thanks. I appreciate it.

Now the keynote speaker at this event is a man named Geert Wilders. He's a Dutch politician known for his anti-Islamic language. This is a twit pic from after the event. Wilders is surrounded by officers he describes as "hero SWAT team members." Listen to some of his speech before the violence broke out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEERT WILDERES, LEADER, PARTY FOR FREEDOM: It is no coincidence that we are in Garland, Texas, tonight. It is here that three months ago, shortly after the "Charlie Hebdo" massacre, Islamic activists convened to demand that free speech be curtailed. They want to prohibit cartoons, books and films which they find insulting. And our answer is, don't mess with Texas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But Mr. Wilders' message is not just about free speech. He has likened Islam to fascism, the Quran to Mein Kampf and he says Islam's holy book, the Quran, should be banned. I sat down with Wilders back in 2009, he was in Washington, D.C., to show a film to Republican senators on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILDERS: I believe that we should be proud and stand up and say we don't want our children and grandchildren living in a world, in a country, that is dominated by an Islamic culture that is only, at the end of the day, costing us all our freedoms.

COSTELLO: "He is the al Qaeda of the Netherlands." That's what some Muslims think of you.

WILDERS: Yes. Well, of course, this is total nonsense. I have nothing against Muslims. But I'm very much afraid of the Islamization of our continent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Still, the United States is a free country. You should be able to express your views without violence. So let's talk about that.

Ben Ferguson is with me as well as Tom Fuentes. Thanks to both of you for being with me. I appreciate it.

Ben, you're from Texas. Did the community expect there could be violence?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMETNATOR: I think they were very concerned about it. When this first conference that happened in -- earlier this year, three months ago, came about, they were very concerned that this was nothing more than a conference to basically find the next lone wolf. There were many people that thought they're trying to recruit the next Boston-type terrorist bombing, homegrown terrorists, because the speakers at that event were on the record as saying that they were in support of different tactics that al Qaeda had used in the past.

And so you now fast forward three months later and this group said, hey, we are going to have an event in the same venue, in the same place, and we're going to show that in America, we're not going to be silenced. We're not going to allow you to recruit people and extremists in our own communities. We are going to have an event that's about free speech because you may want to silence it around the world, you may attack cartoonists and drawers at "Charlie Hebdo," but you're not going to do this in America.

They had a ton of security for this event last night and they talked about it long beforehand. You and I could not have just randomly walked into this event last night. You had to purchase a ticket, they spent more than $10,000 on security and they knew everyone in that venue. So they were prepared for the possibility, but they said we will not cower to these terrorists and those sympathizers and we are going to show that freedom of speech and expression is still alive and well in Texas.

[09:10:05] COSTELLO: And Tom, the two men who were shot by police there, at least one of them, we know is from Phoenix, Arizona. It is clear police in Texas were ready for violence, in light of what Ben just said. But I have to ask you this question. Should this event have taken place?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Carol, I think that, you know, it goes right to the question of freedom of speech. You don't have freedom of speech if you're afraid to exercise it because there might be violence. And you know, this situation has been mentioned, $10,000 in security. They're trying to protect the people that are there and, you know, that's America.

Back in the '70s when I was a police officer, I had to stand in front of the American Nazi Party, who won their Supreme Court case. They wanted to march in Skokie, which had something like a 70 percent Jewish population, including many holocaust survivors at that time, and the Nazis said we're going to march, you know, down the street in Skokie. Skokie said no, you're not. Went to the Supreme Court. Ironically, the ACLU took their case to the Supreme Court.

And the Supreme Court said, no matter if it's offensive, the village, the cities, the states, the police must protect the First Amendment right. They can set up parameters of where and when they can speak and what type of security measures, but they cannot deny it altogether. And that's America. And I stood out there, and the people in the crowd that were throwing things at the Nazis, you know, not being major league baseball pitchers, most of that stuff fell short and landed on us, the police, that had to protect the Nazis. And I think I had to do that three or four times that summer in the mid '70s.

COSTELLO: I totally get what you're saying, Tom. But Ben, I want to pose this question for you, and again, I understand about free speech. I passionately support it. But I have to ask you this question. The organizer of this group, Pamela Geller, is the anti-Muslim movement's most flamboyant member. She has called President Obama a secret Muslim who wants to destroy the United States, she's compared Muslims to savages. Geller just told Alisyn Camerota on "NEW DAY" the shootings in Texas proves she's right. Is she, Ben?

FERGUSON: Yes. I think most of the people there last night would say that she is absolutely -- this is the proof that what she's been saying, which is this is the intolerant part of the -- of Islam and the Muslim religion. The fact that you have to spend $10,000 on top of all the other security that was there just to have cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed in a way that you want to, which she says is free speech, is proof that this is an intolerant group of people around a religion.

She said to me earlier about this issue, she said, name another religion out there that would ever come and attack people if they mocked their religion. You have plays on Broadway that have mocked religions and they never had to worry about extra security or attacks on that theater and it's been a show that's gone all over the country.

And so she said this is exactly what I've been warning you about, which is if you go and do anything that extremists or people that are with extremists disagree with in this country, they will try to bankrupt you just to try to spend money on security to have freedom of speech. So they're not going to apologizes for this event. And they think -- one of the other things, one of the attendees said to me, they said it's amazing today, in America, that I have to defend my position when I was the one they were trying to kill, just for drawing a cartoon. That is a scary day. He said, the person who was at this event, in America, when I'm now the bad guy having to defend my event.

COSTELLO: So, Tom, a final question for you. Pamela Geller also said that this proves ISIS is at work in America. Is that right?

FUENTES: Well, you know, we know that ISIS is at work all over the world in terms of trying to recruit, trying to inspire people to follow their teaching, commit jihad on their own, run people over, shoot them if you have a gun, stab them. You know, we've seen attacks already. The New York police officers with the hatchet attack a couple of months ago.

So, but to say that this was, you know, an ISIS-trained group that was deployed to go do this, I mean, this is one of the most feeble terror attacks we've seen in a long time. All they managed was to shoot a security guard in the ankle and end up dead themselves. So I think in terms of -- this is not a world-class special forces operation on the part of these two guys.

But, you know, when the FBI gets into the apartment, and goes through the computers, their e-mails, their phone calls, all of the records of who they've been talking to, what they've been saying, they'll get a pretty clear picture of the level of involvement or inspiration for their activities.

COSTELLO: Alright. Tom Fuentes, Ben Ferguson, my thanks to both of you. I appreciate it. I'll be right back.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:16] COSTELLO: The police union in Baltimore is calling for an independent prosecutor. It says the state's attorney Marilyn Mosby rushed to judgment in announcing charges against six Baltimore police officers in the death of Freddie Gray. The union goes on to say, quote, "as tragic as this situation is, none of the officers involved are responsible for the death of Mr. Gray."

Of course, Mosby disagrees.

CNN's Sara Sidner spoke to her as she sat alongside her husband, City Councilman Nick Mosby.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE STATE ATTORNEY: Absolutely.

NICK MOSBY, BALTIMORE CITY COUNCILMAN: Totally.

M. MOSBY: I mean, as I said before, he makes the laws. I enforce them. There is no conflict of interest.

I mean, I'm going to prosecute. I'm the Baltimore City state's attorney. My jurisdiction covers every district in Baltimore City. I have -- there's a number of crimes that take place in Baltimore City and unfortunately, in the district that we live.

Where is the conflict?

N. MOSBY: Yes.

M. MOSBY: That I have to -- to make myself away from every case or crime that takes place in West Baltimore? That makes absolutely no sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With me now, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos and former New York City police detective, Tom Verni. Welcome to both of you.

TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Good morning.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

So, Danny, I'll pose that question for you. Should there be a special prosecutor called in?

CEVALLOS: Well, in cases like this you already have a -- the bottom line is, police, law enforcement, they work together all the time, especially when you get into smaller towns, smaller communities. Those people know each other, often it's a job passed down from parent to child.

So, in law enforcement, any defense attorney, any prosecutor will tell you that in a way it is a family business. Everybody knows each other. And even in a town this size there's going to be some relationships in city government.

[09:20:07] So, if you look at it from that perspective, these kinds of conflicts are nothing new. The real question is whether or not based on that conflict, she can fairly and independently prosecute these officers. Of course, on the other hand, if you're the police union you think that this is just too close a relationship and that this prosecution has become politicized.

COSTELLO: Tom, what do you think?

VERNI: I agree with the second half of what Danny just said. Yes, this is definitely a little too close to home. Danny's correct. He's correct on both counts.

But I definitely believe in this case, it's such a highly charged incident, and clearly based on what we saw last week, you know, there's a number of conflicts. She's totally qualified. I'm not saying she's not qualified to prosecute a case.

In this particular case, because it is so emotionally charged and because of her husband's connection, and you know it happened in his district, and also her connections to the attorneys of Freddie Gray. I just don't -- you know, this is too many red flags here.

COSTELLO: OK. You think there should be a special prosecutor and this is specifically what he's talking about what Tom is talking about. Billy Murphy, Danny, he represents the gray family. He donated $5,000 to Mosby's campaign. Is that a conflict of interest?

CEVALLOS: Well, when it comes to donations --

VERNI: Yes.

COSTELLO: Tom says yes.

CEVALLOS: -- one could argue every donation is potentially conflict of interest.

But let's take a step back, just a sort of take the devil's advocate side. When the people elect a prosecutor, they should be electing a prosecutor knowing that that prosecutor might have to prosecute not only citizens, but police officers. And that would be the job of any prosecutor.

I mean, in theory, you could elect somebody that has zero ties to law enforcement. Zero experience. Zero knowledge of anybody in the law enforcement business. But then you have to ask the question, how palatable a candidate for a law enforcement position would that be?

You know, it's a Hobson's choice. You want to elect somebody who has substantial experience in city government, law enforcement, and the business in general. But at the -- on the other hand, you don't want to necessarily elect somebody who is so firmly entrenched that they can't be impartial. It's always going to be a difficult choice. Whether you're in Baltimore or North Muskegon, Michigan, population 2,000, it's always going to be an issue in law enforcement.

COSTELLO: OK. So also in Mosby's background and I'll pose this to you, Tom, she has police officers and they were close family members who were police officers. So, it's not like she doesn't get that point of view.

VERNI: Right. And that's great. And I'm glad that you brought that out. I think but also if I'm not mistaken, Freddie Gray's attorney had also mentioned a conversation that he had had with her, where she had stated along the lines of she doesn't trust cops or she doesn't like cops.

So, there's a lot -- there's just too many things that raise too many questions as to whether or not she, and you know look, this is a great case to catapult her career into other parts of whatever she may want to do in the afterlife of prosecution in the city of Baltimore. So she wants this case. But I just think that --

CEVALLOS: Well, we can't --

VERNI: -- because of the particulars of this case, I just don't think she's the right person for it for this case. Any other case in Baltimore, yes. In this one, I think there's too many red flags.

COSTELLO: But, Danny, what do you think is she like she wants this case because it will catapult her to some sort of fame?

CEVALLOS: Well, let's distinguish. There are reasons that create a legitimate conflict. But the possibility that a high profile case might yield some benefits in the future, now I think we're getting a little bit into the speculative. You could argue that any prosecutor who is unfortunate to have a high profile case descend upon them could parlay that at a later date into some kind of private practice benefit. But that could be the truth for virtually any prosecutor.

There are different kinds -- there are hard conflicts that create a real clear and present danger of a problem during a prosecution. But let's separate those from the ones that really start to get in to the speculative. Each is a case by case basis. And this is no different.

COSTELLO: All right. Danny Cevallos and Tom Verni, thank you so much for being with me. I appreciate it.

I want to take you to Phoenix for just a second. These are live pictures over Phoenix. That is the apartment building in which one of the Texas gunmen lived as you know authorities are searching that apartment now.

We believe that's suspect's name is Elton Simpson. As you know he's part of a shoot-out at this event in Garland, Texas. It was a cartoon contest featuring the Prophet Mohammed. Elton Simpson was shot dead by police on the scene after he and another man allegedly opened fire on a security guard.

We'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:28:15] COSTELLO: The FBI's investigation into a shooting in Texas has now spread to Arizona. Officials in phoenix are hunting for clues at an apartment complex believed to be the home of Elton Simpson, and another gunman who opened fire outside a controversial event in Garland, Texas. It was a draw Mohammed cartoon contest.

Now, these two suspects were shot and killed by police at the scene within seconds. The religion and motive of these men is not clear. But the keynote speaker was a right-wing Dutch politician named Geert Wilders, who was on an al Qaeda hit list.

The event's organizer Pamela Geller spoke with CNN's "NEW DAY" this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA GELLER, ORGANIZED "DRAW MOHAMMED" EVENT: Intentionally incendiary and provocative by drawing a cartoon. This is the low state of freedom of speech in this country. I disagree. And I disagree most vehemently.

The First Amendment, not the Eighth, not the Tenth but the First, protects all speech. Not just ideas that we like. But even core political speech, ideas that we don't like, because who would decide what's good and what's forbidden? The Islamic state? The government?

Inoffensive speech, Alisyn, needs no protection. But in a pluralistic society you have offensive speech. You have ideas. You have an exchange of ideas. You don't shut down a discussion because I'm offended. If something offends me, should I go out and slaughter people?

ALISON CAMERON, CNN ANCHOR: Sure, of course.

GELLER: When Jesus Christ was put in a jar of urine it was called art. Did Christians like it? Of course not. Did they slaughter people? Did they burn embassies? Did they kill whole communities? Of course not.

This cannot be sanctioned. This cannot be sanctioned. The West must stand up for freedom of speech. It's the core, fundamental element of this constitutional republic.

[09:30:01] CAMEROTA: I mean what your critics say about this is that you weren't just going after say al Qaeda or ISIS or extremism, but even just Islam.