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Update on Mohammed Carton Contest Shooting; Carson and Fiorina Joining Presidential Fray; Bill Clinton on Fundraising Projects; Mosby Addresses Conflict of Interest Claims. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired May 04, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:29:53] MARC LAMONT HILL, HUFFPOST LIVE: No.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Are there black racists on black race? I guess if you want to have that kind of conversation.

HILL: That's actually -- that's actually not the argument. The argument is that there is a structural problem with law enforcement --

SETMAYER: Right.

HILL: And that happens whether the officer is black or the officer is white.

SETMAYER: Right.

HILL: Black people did not march to get beaten by black officers -- right. I don't care who is doing the beating --

SETMAYER: But how can you say that it's racially motivated then if you have black officers who are involved and black officers with a black perpetrator and that they went after him because he was black. That's not why. He was a --

HILL: He was what?

SETMAYER: He's a known petty drug dealer in the neighborhood.

HILL: You're saying those officers knew he was a petty drug dealer and --

SETMAYER: I have no idea if they knew or they didn't.

HILL: But you just said.

SETMAYER: But he has a criminal record and in that area there's high crime.

HILL: His record wasn't hanging around his neck. He wasn't walking through the hood with his record hanging down his neck.

SETMAYER: My God -- Marc. You have areas of high crime and criminality and patrol officers --

HILL: Do you trust the officer's report?

SETMAYER: In this case there's problems but that's why we have a trial.

HILL: Right. And the trial is for them illegally shooting him and falsely incarcerating --

SETMAYER: That's right. But it doesn't mean that it was racially motivated. It means it was criminally motivated because this is a high crime and he was potentially involved in criminal activity so they thought -- and now they find out that he wasn't. It has nothing to do with race.

HILL: But the fact that you see a black guy and think that he's involved in criminal activity is itself partially racial. The fact that there's considerable evidence --

SETMAYER: If the majority of the people committing the crimes in that area and it's a 95 percent black area, then you can't sit here and tell me that --

HILL: Then you can just chase any black person down?

SETMAYER: No. But they're -- that's what police officers are supposed to do.

HILL: So why did they choose him?

SETMAYER: Let me give you an example. The police officer that was shot in the face here in New York, ok --

HILL: That has nothing to do with this.

SETMAYER: No, no, no. Are we going to have the same conversation and have a pathological analysis of this black perpetrator who shot this white police officer --

HILL: Every black person who hunts down a white police officer and shoots him in the face is --

SETMAYER: Racially motivated?

HILL: No, is law enforcement motivated.

SETMAYER: Are we going to have that conversation now.

HILL: Listen, here's the different.

(CROSSTALK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Ok. One more -- then we have to wrap it up.

HILL: The target of all these crazy killers who are shooting cops are cops. So it's cop-motivated. The target of all these crazy police shootings are black people -- SETMAYER: It's not criminally motivated because they're black.

HILL: Yes, it's criminally motivated. I'm saying it's criminal to do this on both sides.

SETMAYER: No, what I'm saying is -- you're saying that they're targeting blacks just because they're blacks.

HILL: No, no. I'm saying that --

COSTELLO: I have to wrap this up here.

HILL: -- disproportionately targeted.

COSTELLO: All right. I'm going to have to wrap this up here. But I appreciate the spirited conversation. I think it's an important conversation to have. I do. Because I heard a lot of people say the very question that I posed at the beginning of your argument. And I think we need to talk about these things. So I appreciate you both being here and being so passionate about it.

SETMAYER: Yes. It's a passionate issue.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, you can add two names to the growing field of 2016 Republican presidential candidates, one announcing just this morning, another set to announce next hour. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:36:12] COSTELLO: All right. We're still awaiting this news conference to take place at the top of the hour. The public information officer from the Garland, Texas Police Department will be behind those microphones at any moment -- actually at 11:00 Eastern time.

His name is Joe Harn. Supposedly he has new information about the suspects who opened fire at a Draw Muhammad Cartoon Contest. As you know, both suspects were shot dead. One of them was named Elton Simpson. We believe both of them to be from Phoenix, Arizona. They were roommates and as I said, the public information officer will soon take to that podium and release some more information. We'll take that news conference live when it happens.

In other news this morning, two more Republican presidential hopefuls are throwing their hats in the ring for the 2016 nomination today. Former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina announcing her candidacy just hours ago on ABC's "Good Morning America."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm getting ready to do something, too. I'm running for president. Our founders never intended for us to have a professional

political class. They believed that citizens and leaders needed to step forward. We know the only way to re-imagine our government is to re-imagine who is leading it. I'm Carly Fiorina and I'm running for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Also retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson set to announce his candidacy next hour. Covering that announcement in Detroit, CNN's senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson; and here in New York, CNN chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash. Thanks to both of you for being with me. I appreciate it. So Nia -- what are we expecting Ben Carson to say?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, he's going to announce. We've seen him really all morning talk about his vision for the country. He met with students at a high school named for him for about 30 minutes. They were very much excited to see him.

He is a local hero here. He was working on a speech last night and, of course, he got word that his mother is very ill. And in talking to him today, you can see that he was a bit downbeat about that. But he will announce his candidacy for president -- something that we've expected for many, many months at this point. He worked on his speech. I asked him if he had notes or he had a teleprompter. He said no, he planned to deliver it off the top of his head.

COSTELLO: I believe it. I've been to many of his speeches because, you know, he used to give so many commencement speeches and he's a great speaker. So it doesn't surprise me a bit.

Dana, what kind of surprises me about Carly Fiorina, she's sort of setting herself up to be Hillary Clinton's chief attack dog. And Republicans are embracing her. So it's turning into this weird girl fight almost.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And she's turning it into one. I mean you saw, you played the announcement video that she put on her Web site -- her new presidential Website watching Hillary Clinton turning off the television and turning to the camera and explicitly saying she's the person who should go head to head with Hillary Clinton.

She says it on the campaign trail Carol. She talks about the fact that it would take the woman issue off the table -- the idea that Hillary Clinton is somebody that women and even some men might want to be president because it would be historic. It would be the first female president. She says that would be me, too. So it would be a nonissue. I think also for her, the fact she is playing up the fact that she was the very first CEO of a Fortune 500 company.

She's a former CEO of Hewlett-Packard and the fact that she's a nonpolitician like Ben Carson that's their calling card. In addition to the fact that, you know, what is obvious that he's an African- American Republican and she's a female Republican -- the only one with 14 or 15 people running.

COSTELLO: I actually wish both Hillary Clinton and Carly Fiorina would stop talking about being the first woman president. Because at some point, A, you get tired of hearing it, and secondly, if they are both qualified for the job, being a woman is an aside.

[10:40:04] BASH: Well, if you sort of believe Carly Fiorina's pitch and what she's going for, she's trying to cancel it out saying it's going to be a nonissue if you have two women running.

But on the Hillary Clinton side, Carol, you remember what happened in 2008. She didn't run as a woman. I mean it was kind of obvious that she's a woman but she didn't play up her gender and the historic idea of having a female president and a lot of people thought that that was a mistake so now she's going the other way big-time.

COSTELLO: And I know a lot of women out there who are embracing that. It would be great to have a first woman in presidency. As time goes on --

BASH: I know what you mean.

COSTELLO: I know.

BASH: But I will say --

COSTELLO: Not just for candidates but how all women are perceived.

BASH: right. And what I'm about to say is a gender neutral issue. What Carly Fiorina is saying is her calling card is her business chops but she was attacked when she ran for senate in 2010 as being a typical corporate CEO who had a golden parachute of more than $20 million after she left Hewlett Packard and she had to downsize. I mean like 30,000 jobs were cut as part of a merger.

So that is something that you could say potentially about a man or a woman. So it's interesting that you have a woman in that position for the very first time regardless of gender.

Dana Bash, thank you so much. And Nia Malika Henderson -- thanks to you as well. I appreciate it.

Still to come, the Clinton Foundation and its fundraising controversy. Hear what Bill Clinton has to say about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:17] COSTELLO: With Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign in full swing, she and her husband continue to face questions about their foundation's fundraising practices, specifically donations from foreign governments made during Hillary Clinton's time as secretary of state. Bill Clinton dismissed the criticism in an interview that aired on NBC.

Joining me now: CNN's senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny. What did he say?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. He responded forcefully and aggressively making his first comments about this foundation. He said that there is no sign that Hillary Clinton was influenced in any way or that any U.S. government policies were affected by any of these contributions.

But the tone of his voice made clear this is a very raw subject for him. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think there's anything sinister in trying to get wealthy people and countries that are seriously involved in development to spend their money wisely in a way that helps poor people and lifts them up. I don't think there's anything bad with that. I think it's good.

There has been a very deliberate attempt to take the foundation down. And there is almost no new that you know now that wasn't known when she ran for president the first time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: so he calls it a deliberate attempt to take the foundation down. Of course, this is going to give more ammunition to some of those questions that have been asked about the foundation. He still did not get to the specific instances of some of those businessmen who gave these very large contributions to the foundation. He said there is no example of any influence that was done -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Is there anything truly incriminating here?

ZELENY: We just don't know. There's so much money involved here. All of the contributions haven't been disclosed. So we don't have any new examples or any hard concrete facts. There are still so many questions -- that's because Republicans are raising them and we still haven't heard from Hillary Clinton herself. She at some point will have to answer these questions as well.

COSTELLO: Alright. Jeff Zeleny reporting for us -- thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: under scrutiny in Baltimore. The city's chief prosecutor Marilyn Mosby addresses conflict of interest claims next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:34] COSTELLO: As the city of Baltimore lifts its curfew and the protests subside, we're learning more about the Baltimore City state's attorney Marilyn Mosby who's been thrown into the spotlight for filing criminal charges against six officers in the death of Freddie Gray. Mosby has only been on the job since January. Her husband is a Baltimore city councilman and critics say there's definitely a conflict of interest. Mosby denies that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARILYN MOSBY (R), BALTIMORE CITY STATE'S ATTORNEY: Absolutely. I mean, as I said before, he makes the laws. I enforce them. There's no conflict of interest.

I mean I'm going to prosecute. I'm the Baltimore city or states attorney. My jurisdiction covers every district in Baltimore City. There's a number of crimes that take place in Baltimore City and unfortunately in the district that we live. Where is the conflict? Would I have to take myself away from every case or crime that takes place in west Baltimore? That makes absolutely no sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: My next guest says we have to trust Mosby claiming Mosby is quote, "showing America how we go about this process."

Joining me now Maryland's state senator, Catherine Pugh -- welcome, Senator.

CATHERINE PUGH, MARYLAND STATE SENATOR: Thank you.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here with you.

COSTELLO: Thank you for being with me.

The police union says Baltimore should call in a special prosecutor because Marilyn Mosby has many conflicts of interest. I could list them. Billy Murphy, one of the great family attorneys donated money to Mosby's campaign. Her husband represents the district where Freddie Gray was killed, right? She also -- her 17- year-old cousin was mistaken for a drug dealer and shot and killed. Police union says all of these things say that Mosby has a conflict of interest.

PUGH: Well, if (inaudible) has submitted. They also donated to her campaign. Marilyn Mosby does not have a conflict of interest. She was elected by the people of Baltimore to be our state's attorney. What she's done is reputable. I think that she is more qualified to this job than anybody else in the country. I think she's settling the model for how these cases, in fact, should be brought to trial.

Let's remember, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. She has brought the indictment and now the criminal justice system moves forward. That's what she's supposed to do. She'll prosecute the case as we have elected her to do.

COSTELLO: Well, there are some in the city of Baltimore who wishes she would have waited until all of the investigations were complete by each individual agency and then arrived at a conclusion. Should she have done that?

PUGH: I think what people are missing is that what she did was she had an independent investigation. She waited until she received the information from the police department which collaborated information she already had and then the medical examiner already said this was a homicide. I think she just moved more quickly than most people thought she should simply because she had begun the process much earlier than most people knew she had.

COSTELLO: Do you think that these six police officers can get a fair trial in the city of Baltimore?

PUGH: I think that they can get a fair trial in the city of Baltimore. I think they can get a fair trial anywhere in the state of Maryland and in this country. I think what people don't understand is the reason you see all of these protests and so forth around the country is because this is indicative of police behavior all around the country. This is not an indictment on the police department in general because most police officers come into our communities and they know what to do.

But one of the things I continue to talk about is the need to elevate the conversation around race and race relations and more importantly what do we need to do to reform our criminal justice system and one of the things that I'm looking at and other folks are talking about is the need for us to implement in our criminal justice system as it relates to police officers ongoing psychological evaluations.

Because a friend of mine said earlier that I had a conversation with who is a social worker, sometimes you become incensed if you don't cultural diversity training you may be desensitized to dealing with these issue in our communities.

COSTELLO: You are talking about giving police officers psychological testing every year or something like that?

PUGH: Well no not every year. I think that you spend a certain amount of time on a job and you may become desensitized to what's going on in that community. Maybe it's every three years, maybe it's every five years. I think that's were the experts tell us as we move forward in or five years. That's for experts to tell us as we move forward in terms of how we reform our criminal justice system. We'll see what experts tell us is the best way to do that.

COSTELLO: Alright. State Senator Catherine Pugh, thank you so much for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.

PUGH: You're welcome.

[10:55:10] COSTELLO: You're welcome Still to come in the NEWSROOM. In just minutes a news conference in Garland, Texas decided that shooting outside a of Muhammad cartoon contest. We're hoping to get new information about the suspected gunmen and the investigation. That's set to take place in just about five minutes. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We're counting down to the top of the hour that's when Garland, Texas police will give us a live update on the shooting outside of the Muhammad art exhibit and cartoon contest which took place last night. We'll bring you this news conference when it begins. We expect that to happen in just about three minutes.

We're now learning the suspected shooter, Elton Simpson, was an ISIS sympathizers and had links to known ISIS members on Twitter and tweeted prior to the attack in Texas from an account using the hashtag Texas attack. That cartoon contest was hosted by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, a group considered anti-Muslim by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The organization maintains the event was about free speech period.

I want to bring in CNN intelligence and security analyst Bob Baer. Good morning -- Bob.

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: What do you make of these suspects?

BAER: Well, for the FBI and the police this is the worst sort of nightmare -- Carol. It's because these -- they can get on Twitter. They can sympathize with the Islamic state and the rest of it. But that doesn't mean they've committed a crime. There's nothing the FBI can do about these guys. Clearly a lunatic, not well trained, has the slightest knowledge about Islam. I'm quite sure of that.

Either just no way to prevent one of these attacks but I mean frankly the Texas police were ready for this. The Garland police -- I mean they knew the potential. They had a Swat squad in place and they took care of it. So I hate to put it this way but it's almost a success story.

COSTELLO: The organizers of this cartoon contest say that these men prove that ISIS is operating within the United States. Is that true?

BAER: I think they're here. I think there are two levels. There are people that sympathize with ISIS. They're amateurs like the people who did the attack in Texas and then there are professionals that know what they're doing and they frankly are the ones that worry the FBI the most -- people that can carry out a real assault and take on the police.

You know, we've been calling this for a long time. There would be some violence in the United States I think very well, it could get worse and better organized.

COSTELLO: Do you think this cartoon contest should have been held?

BAER: You know, I have respect for all religions. The problem is that depicting the Prophet Muhammad is blasphemy. It's very clear in Islam. The question is how many people out there going to act on their beliefs. And with the conflict in the Middle East, there's more and more.

But on the other hand, we simply can't rip up the first amendment for fanatics. I mean it's a cost of democracy.

COSTELLO: Like you said, the police were ready, right? They knew that this could cause some problems. They were well armed and well prepared.

[10:59:45] BAER: They were well prepared. They didn't have any heads-up on this but they shot back when they should. I mean this is a case of police shooting absolutely justified and they were in place and understood what was going on and again, you know, kudos to them.

COSTELLO: All right. Bob Baer thanks so much.

And thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.