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ISIS Claims Texas Gunmen; ISIS Leaders bounty; Police Commissioner Surprised; Texas Terror Attack. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 05, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: For international viewers, "AMANPOUR" is next. For our viewers in North America, "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you. Here we go. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

Let's begin with this chilling development here out of Texas. ISIS saying it has carried out its first attack on U.S. soil. The terror group claiming responsibility here for the failed ambush on the Prophet Mohammed cartoon contest in Texas. ISIS is now warning Americans more attacks will come, using its own radio network to announce that future attacks are going to be they say harsher and calling the two gunmen from Arizona, and I'm quoting now, "soldiers and brothers."

Both Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi were shot and killed by police before they even reached the parking lot at this event. That day of the attack, Simpson swore allegiance to the terror group's leader, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, with a single tweet. But right now it is far from clear that the men were directed by ISIS leaders specifically or if they had even been in direct contact with any of them.

So let's begin our coverage with Kyung Lah. She's live in Phoenix right now, where the suspects shared an apartment there.

And so, Kyung, I know we're getting more details about Nadir Soofi. Tell me more.

KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's the elusive one, Brooke, because he doesn't have a criminal record. So we've been trying to piece together exactly what we know about him.

We are learning, through a source in Pakistan who has knowledge about the family, is that he spent his formative years there. That he went to a prestigious private school in Islamabad. While he was in school, he was a popular kid. He even had the lead in the musical.

But then his parents divorced. He came to the United States in 1998 with his mother. The divorce, we understand, was not pretty. That he struggled with it for some time according to that family friend. But while here was here, when he - as he started to mature, he opened up a pizza shop here according to his mosque. That he attended mosque quite regularly, and that he had a son.

From that point, Brooke, it becomes very, very hazy. How a guy who has ties to the community suddenly would take this step to violence.

BALDWIN: So this is the elusive one. Tell me about this second gunman, this roommate.

LAH: Yes, the reason why we know a little bit more about him is because he has a criminal record. Elton Simpson was known to the feds. He had been arrested in 2011 for lying to federal agents. We have heard from his family. His family gave a statement saying that they didn't know anything about this. To them, he was a boy who grew up in this community. He was athletic. He played on his high school basketball team. In fact, he was the captain. And then he seemed to do pretty well.

He did convert to Islam when he was in high school. We don't know exactly why. I've spoken to members of the mosque and they say that he was very quiet. He seemed very friendly. He played basketball with a lot of the kids there and they never saw this coming.

BALDWIN: Kyung Lah, thank you. We're going to talk a lot more about these two men, their ties to ISIS, what counterterrorism networks officials really look for.

But first to Simpson. As Kyung mentioned, he's been on the fed's radar since 2011. He was placed on the no-fly list after he was convicted for lying about planning to travel to Somalia to wage violent jihad. After that, it seems the feds lost track of him or at least felt he was no longer a threat.

So, Aki Peritz, let me bring you in for this conversation here, former CIA counterterrorism analyst. Welcome back to the show.

AKI PERITZ, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: How you doing?

BALDWIN: I'm doing OK.

PERITZ: Good.

BALDWIN: But we just got some information in and I want to get your two cents on this because the announcement - we got this announcement just in from the State Department that they are now offering rewards up to $7 million, Aki, for information on four key ISIS leaders, including an official spokesman for ISIS. And one of the first terrorist to join ISIS, now operating in Syria. Who are these people? Why are they so key?

PERITZ: Well, these guys are senior ISIS members who are involved in a number of things, such as the person you're talking about is Abu Muhammad al-Adnani. He's been making a lot of various videos that have sort of been broadcast worldwide talking about what ISIS wants and wants ISIS wants to accomplish. Other folks are senior bomb makers. One of them is actually reportedly the person who held a lot of foreign hostages. And some of these - one of the persons, the individual who has about $7 million now on his head, was an individual who is a senior, senior ISIS person. So if you take these guys off the battlefield, you really kind of crush this organization or at least hamper it significantly. BALDWIN: Reward up for $7 million for information leading to them.

Moving to what happened in Texas. And when you hear the news that ISIS has claimed responsibility. There was a phrase that struck me because I had heard this once before recently. They refer to this - themselves as defenders of the cross. And I'm wondering, Aki, if ISIS perceives also of this, right, this big picture narrative, do they perceive this as a holy war, do you think?

[14:05:16] PERITZ: They see it as a lot of things. But one of the things I would caution your viewers, saying that every time we say that ISIS carried out an attack in x country - so these people try to get - they try to shoot up this one place full of these individuals and they got killed in about 15 seconds flat by the local police. ISIS turns out a propaganda message saying that they were sent by ISIS or they were inspired by ISIS. Before we actually say that these people have a connection to the folks in Syria and Iraq, we want to make sure that there is an actual connection because what ISIS is really, really good at is finding a way to sort of insert themselves into the local narrative. And so by repeating what ISIS actually says, we're actually lifting their - lifting their balloon. We're putting hot air under the balloon. And until the facts are in, I would suggest we take caution before we - we jump to any conclusions here.

BALDWIN: I hear you and, listen, I'm all about taking caution. But I'm wondering, though, at this stage in this - where we are, does it matter whether somebody from ISIS HQ in Syria says to somebody in Texas, go do this, go - go, you know, wage terror, this Prophet Mohammad drawing contest, versus someone simply being inspired, maybe tweeting with some people who he perceives as members of ISIS, does it matter if in the end, you know, they shot their - they tried to seek terror? Do you know what I'm saying?

PERITZ: I totally get what you're saying. One of the things that we want to make sure is that there are a lot of individuals out there with a lot of axes to grind. And once we sort of link them to a transnational terror organization, they become a lot more difficult and a lot more terrifying to the average American public. If these were just two average loons with high-powered weapons trying to shoot up a school, that's one issue. But one we sort of connect it to a broader narrative, that ISIS is really trying to push, that there are sleeper cells all over the world, especially here in the United States, willing to do violence on their behalf, that's when we actually really give this organization a big propaganda boost. And like I said, I would be very, very hesitant to actually say that these two things were connected until we get more proof.

BALDWIN: Got it. I got it. Let me - let me follow up with this. You know, in the past, we talked so much about al Qaeda and let's say, you know, if a person wanted to join al Qaeda, it was difficult, you know, it took years of rigorous training and communication but ISIS seems, Aki, it seems different. They seem reachable. They're on Twitter. They're on social media. They're this - seems to be a more nasant (ph) group. So have the feds, with this new modern terror network sort of out there, have the feds had to change strategy in tracking terrorists today? PERITZ: Absolutely. Al Qaeda is very, very good with their

communications. But ISIS has really sort of taken our tools, which is Facebook and Twitter and all kinds of social media tools, to really sort of push their message. But it's a double-edged sword because now we know that people are tweeting and putting people - putting ISIS stuff on their Facebook pages, the feds and the local police and intelligence services can actually follow them a lot better.

So, for example, if you're tweeting from Syria and you're tweeting to - you're in a Twitter conversation with somebody in the United States, you know, it's a public - it's a public method of communication and so you better believe that the feds are actually going to be watching you. So it's really a double-edged sword.

BALDWIN: But apparently he had been tweeting. He had been tweeting with someone. So was he being monitored? I mean do - we don't know, do we?

PERITZ: We don't know. But any time you put out an - you know, you talk about your affiliation and your affection for a group like ISIS, it's really going to cause people to pay attention.

BALDWIN: Yes.

PERITZ: There are certain databases that you can actually follow. And if you actually put in "I love ISIS," I'm sure that will come up with a lot of interesting things for the federal officials to kind of chew through.

BALDWIN: Yes. Put that on the list of things not to Google. Aki Peritz, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Next, just in to CNN, the police commissioner in Baltimore telling us he is surprised, his words, surprised that his six officers were charged. What he was told ten minutes before those charges were announced.

Plus, in Colorado, a passenger pulled out a cell phone and records his entire traffic stop that gets incredibly tense very quickly. We'll speak live with this man and a member of law enforcement for the other perspective.

Also, for months the Boston bomber heard graphic details, emotional testimony about the people he killed. He didn't cry a single time, until now. Hear who took the stand and made Dzhokhar Tsarnaev tear up and why the "Lion King," like the Disney movie, why that came up.

Stay here. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:13:52] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

New attorney general in the United States, Loretta Lynch, she met Freddie Gray's family just this afternoon. The riots, demonstrations in the wake of his death in police custody broke out the day she was sworn in to her position there. The meeting happened in a closed session at the University of Baltimore where Lynch also sat down with city officials and lawmakers and faith leaders. Her office is investigating whether Freddie Gray's civil rights were violated. And even before his death, the DOJ has been working to reform the Baltimore Police Department.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL: And there will come a time when Baltimore will calm down and the cameras will go away and the headlines will go away, but the work will remain. And so I am really here, with my team, to commit to you personally and on behalf of the Department of Justice that we will stay, we will still be here during those days of rebuilding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Those six police officers accused in Gray's killing are all out on bond and we are just learning that their arrests came as a bombshell to their boss, Baltimore's Police Commissioner Anthony Batts. He just spoke with my colleague, Evan Perez, and he said he learned his officers would be arrested a mere ten minutes before the state's attorney, Marilyn Mosby, revealed it to the public. With me now, CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

[14:15:07] And so just with your prosecutorial perspective, do you think he should have given - been given more than a ten-minute heads up? Is that par for the course because they're functioning separately or -

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I think it was appropriate.

BALDWIN: Yes?

TOOBIN: Remember - you remember what happened in Ferguson, everybody was outraged because the prosecutor was perceived as being too close to the police department.

BALDWIN: Right, too close.

TOOBIN: Here, we have a situation where the prosecutor was acting independently, drawing in part om the Boston police, their investigation -

BALDWIN: Baltimore.

TOOBIN: I'm sorry, Baltimore Police.

BALDWIN: She's from Boston, yes.

TOOBIN: Also doing - also doing an independent investigation with the sheriff's department, as well. There is no reason why the commissioner should - should have gotten advance notice because she was investigating the police department.

BALDWIN: OK. On Marilyn Mosby - and we talked about this in other cases where, you know, you always have the critics who come out and look at all the charges, especially the charges facing these six officers and they say, whoa, she overcharged. How do you read that?

TOOBIN: Well, you know, this is one of those great stories where opinions don't matter. The only thing that matters are facts.

BALDWIN: The facts.

TOOBIN: She is going to have a trial presumably of these six defendants, unless some of them plead guilty. And we'll see whether these - she overcharged. I - you know, she announced some of the evidence against these officers, but not all of the evidence. Frankly -

BALDWIN: Why would she offer up all the evidence?

TOOBIN: She shouldn't. She shouldn't have.

BALDWIN: Yes.

TOOBIN: But, you know, frankly, it does look like a challenging case. Just think, for example, of the driver who's charged with murder.

BALDWIN: Depraved (INAUDIBLE) second degree, right.

TOOBIN: Murder. That's intentional act of killing Freddie Gray. What is the evidence that he knew what he was doing to Freddie Gray. That he even knew Freddie Gray as opposed to someone else was in the back of this van? That's all going to be difficult to prove, but maybe she has it. All - five of the six gave statements. We don't know what was in those statements. That will obviously be part of the case. So I think everybody's got to reserve judgment about whether these charges are correct until we find out what a jury says.

BALDWIN: OK. So I was just asking this in commercial break. So as far as what's next, either you could have a preliminary hearing or the grand jury. The big question we keep hearing the potential of someone flipping, one of these officers flipping, meaning they would plead guilty to a lesser charge and then cooperate. So who would be likely to flip?

TOOBIN: The way it usually works in conspiracy cases is the less culpable people are given the best deals to cooperate against the higher level folks. So it would be the people who had the least amount of contact with Freddie Gray. What makes the situation so unusual, and frankly so volatile, is that, you know, you're talking about a relatively brief period of time. This isn't like a mafia conspiracy that went on for years. You're talking about people who had very brief contacts over the course of basically about an hour. And so -

BALDWIN: Not even.

TOOBIN: Sorting out who did what when, and then assigning culpability, and seeing if any of them want to testify or even if they have any information that they could offer, because not all of the six - there was no point, I think, when all six were together. So, you know, it's going to be a very tricky thing to, you know, bring in the proof of what the prosecution's trying to show here.

BALDWIN: How quickly does this move?

TOOBIN: Not very, probably. This is the legal system. Thirty days from the arrest, there has to be either a preliminary hearing or you - or the normal course in Baltimore for a case like this would be a grand jury indictment. That would start the clock on when there would be a trial. But there are going to be a lot of motions in this case. There may be motions for separate trials. There may well be a motion for a change of venue out of Baltimore, move it to somewhere else in the state. All of that takes time. I think a trial before the end of the year, that would be fast. That would be fast.

BALDWIN: All right, Jeff Toobin, thank you very much.

TOOBIN: All right.

BALDWIN: And make sure you go to cnn.com/impact. If you want to know more information, a lot of you have been reaching out, how can you help Baltimore rebuild. Just go to cnn.com/impact for that.

Next, looking into the past of the men who attempted to carry out a terror attack on U.S. soil. It turns out one of the men had been on the radar of the FBI going back to 2006. We have new details as to why and what happened since, next.

Plus, a traffic stop truly gets heated here as this man, one of the brothers, two brothers in this car, starts recording police officers. He'll join me in just a minute after - on what happened after the cameras stopped recording. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:24:07] BALDWIN: We are definitely learning a bit more today about these two men who showed up over the weekend, opened fire outside that Mohammad cartoon event near Dallas. Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi were roommates in Phoenix. Nadir Soofi was not known to law enforcement, but Elton Simpson certainly was.

Tristan Hallman of "The Dallas Morning News" is with me now.

And, Tristan, I know your paper, like us here at CNN, we've been obviously doing a lot of digging on these two men and just beginning with Elton Simpson, I know he was on the FBI's radar as far back as 2006. And again, several months ago, when he started posting about ISIS online, that would certainly, you know, send off the alarm bells. But how did he first attract the government's attention?

TRISTAN HALLMAN, CRIME REPORTER, "DALLAS MORNING NEWS": Well, it's unclear how he first attracted the government's attention. But in 2006, they started paying an FBI informant to gather information on him. At which point he apparently told the informant on a recording that he intended to go to Somalia to engage in violent jihad. And he later told the federal authorities that he didn't say that. So they ended up getting him - indicting him for that.

[14:25:12] BALDWIN: To go to Somalia to then, what, join al Shabaab?

HALLMAN: Yes, to join in the fight there.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. Right. So ISIS, today, now is coming forward, they're claiming responsibility for this attack. Did your team find any concrete evidence that either of these men had direct contact with ISIS?

HALLMAN: We haven't found anything like that yet. Obviously we're skeptical as journalists and this coming in sort of later makes you - makes you wonder if it's perhaps opportunistic.

BALDWIN: Right.

HALLMAN: But so far, it does look like they may have acted on their own accord.

BALDWIN: OK. I know that CNN and your paper, "The Dallas Morning News," are both reporting that Nadir Soofi spent a couple of years in Pakistan growing up, returned to the U.S. A CNN source actually, in looking through some of these details, I mean apparently he was a popular kid in school, played the lead in his high school production of "Bye-bye Birdie." Just - the details we're getting. I mean has your team uncovered anything in his past that explains how this seemingly normal teenager would one day want to wage terror on people in Texas?

HALLMAN: No, and that's sort of the bizarre thing. He grew up or he was born around here. He was born in the Dallas area. So there was nothing in his past that suggests that. He ran a restaurant in Phoenix for a while. Shut down month ago. But there wasn't really anything that seemingly suggests that he was part of this other than he had converted to Islam at a young age.

BALDWIN: Your paper also reports an informant recorded 1,500 hours of conversation with Elton Simpson in 2009. He talked about going to the, quote, "battlefield." Then a judge ruled the government did not prove he wanted to engage in terrorism. I mean, you know, the - one of the questions obviously is how, when, where did the legal system fail?

HALLMAN: Well, the judge then said that they couldn't really prove that he was going to go to Somalia for terrorist activities. They ended up getting what looked like what they could on him. Obviously the cost was over $100,000 for the informant. So, something to look at. But they - he met the terms of his probation and at some point he - they lost track of him and he ended up here.

BALDWIN: Tristan Hallman, "Dallas Morning News." Thank you so much, Tristan.

HALLMAN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Next, got to take you to Boston. Convicted Boston bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev tears up in court for the first time. Why? Why is he shedding tears after all those many days of horrific bombing testimony? We want to know. Why is he weeping? And, why the movie "The Lion King" came up in court. Also ahead here on CNN, Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg's husband has

died, the result of accidental blunt force trauma that apparently happened when he was exercising on a treadmill. What we need to know about this. Stay with me.

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