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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Examining the Wells Report on Deflategate; Baltimore Police Charges Questioned; Savannah College Student's Death in Police Custody Recounted; Colorado Theater Shooting Trial Update. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired May 07, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:17] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: It almost sounds like the same thing but you're totally arguing a different angle here.

Mel, what's wrong with the report?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, what's wrong with the report Ashleigh is that the report doesn't go far enough. The report uses what is actually civil legal language which is the preponderance of evidence. And it kind of basically concludes that hey, it's more likely than not that this happened when in fact the 243 page report is an indictment that is full, not only of text messages and timelines and all kids of arguments Ashleigh.

But if you look at the back of the report, if you look at page 114, there is a 68 page very technical, scientific and statistical takedown of the Patriots ideal gas theory defense which is basically, hey, when the temperature drops, the pressure changes, they debunk it. Not only did they debunk it. They said concluded Ashleigh to a 99.6 percent probability that they cheated, that this was done by human intervention.

And so, I'm disappointed in this report because the language is so light footed. They should have come out and said, "We have irrefutable evidence that the Patriots cheated and the two knuckleheads that were working in the locker room, we've got their text messages back and forth with each other and with Tom Brady. And it shows that they all knew what was going on Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, hold on, those two knuckleheads, you named them, Jim McNally and John Jastremski, I hope I'm pronouncing that right. What did they say to each other in text messages that was so damming?

ROBBINS: Well, McNally refers to himself as the deflator. And the other guy is clearly the fixer. And he's talking about the fact that he's going to give him long needles this weekend. And then when he says, "I'm going to give you the needles" which he's going to be sticking into footballs to deflate them, the McNally, the deflator as he refers to himself, says, "OK, make sure you've got tennis shoes and that you've got the stuff that I want that's autographed."

And so, there's this back and forth where they are clearly arranging to deflate balls. The McNally who is going to deflate them is being told he's going to get paid off with size 11 tennis shoes and autographed jerseys and they joke and around and basically say, "OK, great" because if you don't, I'm going to make these rugby balls which of course are much bigger and more inflated than the footballs.

BANFIELD: That's pretty damming.

ROBBINS: You know what else is pretty damming, Ashleigh...

BANFIELD: Well, hold on, before you go on to the next thing, before you -- I want to read your own words in your up ed today, "The Wells Report may use legalese that sounds like "probable cause" but make no mistake, this is not a criminal matter in a court of law. And different rules apply in business."

So Mel, what does that mean? Are you saying that the NFL has a different standard and it needs to stick by it and has need to rules (ph)?

ROBBINS: Yeah. I mean look, in the scheme of life, is this a big deal? Of course not. In the scheme of right and wrong, the Patriots cheated and they broke the rules and they did so flagrantly. And yes, Goodell does need to do something and they have more than proving this more likely than not, they have irrefutable evidence.

And here's another piece and this is where, you know, look, take a look at the facts, read the report and then use your common sense. Tom Brady, the superstar quarterback three days before the investigation kicks off, he claims that he doesn't even know who these two knuckleheads are.

And then surprisingly spends 55 minutes on the phone with one of them over three different mornings. Now, do you think that this star quarterback is going to give his personal cellphone number to an assistant equipment manager that he claims he doesn't know unless he's on it? Of course not. Look at Tom Brady's own behavior, yes.

BANFIELD: He doesn't look very good. Your piece is fantastic and I can hear your voice in the piece. So thank you so much and we'll talk soon Mel.

ROBBINS: Great to see you Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: You too, always great to see you Mel.

Up next. Police and prosecutors are supposed to be on the same side. But all bets are off now in Baltimore where police say those charges that were filed in Freddie Gray's death are not backed up by the facts from the police. We'll explain it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:37:58] BANFIELD: Baltimore police are challenging that case that's being made against those six officers involved in Freddie Gray's death.

Sources are telling CNN that that big police investigation that was delivered to the state's attorney does not support some of the charges that were filed against them by that Baltimore state's attorney.

And joining me live from Baltimore is CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.

So this is pretty damning stuff. I mean there's a list of things that the police report says does not match up with the state's attorney. And let's just start with the knife.

The entire police report not just the lawyers, every so often a lawyer has come out and said they think that knife was an illegal knife. Now the entire police report has said that knife was illegal. What else is it, is it saying is creating a discrepancy?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So we'll talk about that knife, right. So first of all under state law the switchblade is illegal to have. But what you see and what's coming here from the attorney who were talking about the specific knife that they believe Freddie Gray had. And they're asking actually an a motion to see that knife is that it's spring assistant type of knife.

And they say that under Baltimore City code it's much more expansive about what is illegal. And so they say that knife is illegal that wasn't Freddie Gray's possession. And that that makes a difference. The reason it makes a difference is because they say that means that these officers had probable cause to arrest Freddie Gray and that the charge for false imprisonment just wouldn't stand.

But that is not going to actually be something that won't be able to stick because of the specific kind of knife. So that's the first one.

The second thing is they say the autopsy report does not support the notion that this was a homicide.

And the third thing that they talk about here, are the evidence that they have in the police investigation. They say this evidence points much more to a case that would support manslaughter and certainly not second degree murder.

So you got a lot of problems for the fact that you've got some leads here that are coming from not just the attorneys who represent at least two of these officers in that motion to see the evidence the physical evidence. But then also you have some individuals who are anonymous officials who are now leaking this information from the police investigation. Saying well this is just not going to support the kind of charges that are coming now from the prosecutor's office.

[12:40:24] But as you know Ashleigh there's a legal process that this has to go through before we get to the point where there any indictment. So, it could change, these charges will change.

BANFIELD: Look it just change for me, yesterday we talked about, you know, individual lawyers for those accused officers, saying that they thought that knife was illegal which would, you know, effectuate a destruction on the entire case against the couple of those officers.

But now having the police report actually fit, not just lawyers looking for good defenses, the actual police report it was delivered to that state's attorney, the day before she came out that stand and announce those charges. At the same time saying, not saying that that police commissioner had only heard about this just minutes before.

That changes things severely. And I sure hope that she's got a strong case so that it doesn't fall to the cracks and create an inferno in that city again.

Suzanne Malveaux, thank you, appreciate it, reporting live from Baltimore.

Up next Freddie Gray isn't the only young man who mysteriously die in police custody. Recently a family demanding answers in Savannah Georgia. A whole new case, a whole new set of facts next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:45:09] BANFIELD: In addition to Freddie Gray's death in Baltimore. We are also following another case of possible police brutality in Savannah, Georgia. A 21-year-old college student died in police custody. And as Martin Savidge reports, there's still no public explanation of how it actually happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the beautiful old city of Savannah a small group gathers to ask a potentially ugly question, what happened to Matthew Ajibade.

LLOYD TAYLOR, FIRST CONGRESSIONAL CHURCH: For his family, the cause of Matthew's death remains a mystery, but it should not be.

SAVIDGE: The 21-year-old college student was studying computer science. Friends describe him as bright, hardworking, and much loved. That is not the Ajibade police describe when they showed up New Year's Day at this gas station for a disturbance.

Surveillance video captures the struggle between Ajibade and his girlfriend. A police report says the woman's face was bruised and her nose was bleeding. Police say he refused to let her go and fought back. Mr. Ajibade started to resist apprehension in a violent manner.

At the jail, things got worse. According to a statement from the county sheriff's office, Ajibade became combative during the booking process injuring three deputies including a female sergeant who suffered a concussion and broken nose.

Eventually, authorities say he was restrained. His supporters described something else.

TAYLOR: He was injured, handcuffed to a restraining chair and tazed. He was left unattended and he died.

SAVIDGE: Four months later this is still no public explanation of how the 21-year-old died?

MARK O'MARA, AJIBADE FAMILY LAWYER: How does that happen? There has to be an answer. SAVIDGE: The family has hired Attorney Mark O'Mara, a CNN legal analyst who once represented George Zimmerman for the death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin.

MARA: They first said they took a few weeks for an autopsy. That's long gone by now but we don't know what it said.

SAVIDGE: According to authorities, several video cameras captured the struggle in the booking area but that video like much of the investigation, remains under wraps in the hands of the D.A., which in a statement told CNN, "The District Attorney is currently reviewing the file" a spokesman said and "Would not elaborate on what was within the file or a timeline on when/if a decision to file charges would be made."

Meanwhile, Ajibade supporters delivered a letter to the Chatham County Attorney demanding documents and videos from the case calling for transparency. As for the alleged Jekyll & Hyde personality of Ajibade, his family says he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder three years ago. And he was having a medical emergency at the time of his arrest.

Ajibade's girlfriend say she told that to police and ask that he'd be taken to the hospital. Instead, he was taken to jail. His family says that made all the difference between life and death.

Martin Savidge, CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joining me now from Orlando is the lawyer you just saw in that piece, CNN legal analyst and Ajibade family attorney, Mark O'Mara.

Mark, thank you for being with us. I'm not going to ask for analysis now. I'm actually going to ask -- get us some facts or as many as we can. Sorry to talk to you under these circumstances.

I am struck by some of the facts we know and that is that Mr. Ajibade broke the nose and gave a concussion to one of three deputies who were injured during his arrest. I can understand that someone who is that violent would be restrained and would be handcuffed and even perhaps tazed. Is the problem that he was unattended or is the problem that he was restrained? I'm not sure where -- where you case is going?

O'MARA: Well, it's worse than that because we don't know. 125 days since he was killed and I say "killed" because he was in the care and custody control of Chatham County Police Department Sheriff's Office and we know that he had a manic swing of a diagnosed bipolar disorder. Because not only did Fisayo his girlfriend, tell the police that she actually gave him a medication documenting his bipolar disorder to show them that he was in fact suffering from that.

So, instead of taking him to a hospital, they take him to jail. I don't know if any evidence of the officers being injured at all. What I'm asking for is transparency. We need to know why Matthew died and we need to know what the cops did wrong that led to his death. We know he was tazed, we know he was restrained. Why don't they tell us 126 days into it why they did what they did and what they failed to do?

BANFIELD: So that makes perfect sense to me, why all the secrecy. I always expect in discovery you get things and it's not always timely. But here is the other issue, plenty of bipolar people walk among us and just being handcuffed, restrained and tazed would not lead to their death.

So in a causation issue, could his actions and his amped up stay have led to his death as opposed to his being handcuffed and tazed and then left, you know, unsupervised. Where are you going to find the causation and what actually killed him?

[12:50:15] O'MARA: Well, here is what we know. Bipolar does not kill you.

BANFIELD: Correct.

O'MARA: Now, maybe when you are in a bipolar swing and you upset one, two or three police officers, maybe they kill you. That's what I want to find out. I want to find out if he was in that restraining chair, why he wasn't attended to with proper medical care particularly since they knew he had bipolar disorder.

I just want to know what happened the family can not have any closure while they hide the facts of the case. It took Ms. Mosby 11 days to find out what happened in Baltimore. It took less time for Mike Brown's death to the grand jury decision in Ferguson. We don't have the first piece of information from a system that seems to be held bent on denying its information.

BANFIELD: All right. Well, Mark we're going to continue to follow this story and when do get more information, we certainly want to talk this through with you. Thanks so much for being with us.

O'MARA: Thank you Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: It's always good to see you.

Coming up, grizzly scenes at the movie theater massacre, shocking crime scene photos and that is what set the scenes in the morning where court resumed at the James Holmes trial. We'll find out about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:55:05] BANFIELD: It is day eight of the trial for James Holmes, the young man who admitted to shooting up a movie theater during a midnight showing of the new Batman movie admitted it sort of, wants to be found not guilty by reason of insanity.

But these are the 12 people we're talking about, the 12 who were killed, July 20th 2012, not to mention all of those who are injured. The mother of one of those victims is Jessica Redfield Ghawi and she told us that she feels no sympathy for Holmes or his parents.

Jessica was 24. She moved to Denver to pursue her dream of becoming a sportscaster and Jessica's mother, her name is Sandy Phillips and she is planing to attend this trial every single day, and this is a trial that could last for four to six months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDY PHILLIPS, JESSICA REDFIELD GHAWI'S MOTHER: We all know from the testimony being given by victims and survivors. What we're hearing is about the death of our children.

With each description of what row they found the body, of the position they found the body, we know who that person is and it makes sitting through that testimony extremely difficult. But we're here for the duration and we're not going to let anyone forget it's about the victims and the survivors and not about the killer or his family.

It's extremely hard when you hear that you're supposed to have empathy or sympathy for the person that butchered your children. I can't do it. I won't. I will be here everyday to remind every one of you that it's about our children and our loved ones that were killed in there. There is no justice. If they could give us our children back, that would be justice. They can't do that. There is no justice.

This could all be over tomorrow if he would plea guilty and get it over with. But they've already made it very clear that they're not willing to do that, so we get to sit through this kind of thing, walk through this house (ph) everyday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And that is what it's like being a family member having to sit through a trial. Those who survived have been testifying too and one by one they're telling their stories of how they were injured and how they learned the news that their friends and loved ones were killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAITLIN PEDDICORD, VICTIM: I asked him where Alex (ph) was and he shook his head.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shook his head yes, shook his head no?

PEDDICORD: Shook his head no, and then looked at the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Our Ana Cabrera joins me from outside of the courthouse from Centennial, Colorado. I just do not know how those family members and those victims can sit through so much of this testimony and then there are the photograph, the photograph that have been paraded out of the crime scene, blood splattered on the movie screen itself. What's happening in there today, because it's morning where you are? ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been less emotional today and really more technical. But it's still been interesting as we saw the first physical evidence brought out by the prosecution in those plastic crime scene bags to show the jurors evidence like a couple of riffle cases, a green T-shirt, a couple of bags that were pulled out of the suspect's car, as well as handcuffs and batteries all found outside the theater in and around the suspect's vehicle.

We also saw 70 different pictures today again taken outside the theater. Just outside the exit door they have a picture of a riffle lying on the ground with blood splatters around it and presumably, that was one of the three weapons that was used inside the theater.

There were also two weapons found at his car. One was a handgun sitting on top of the suspect's vehicle and then another handgun inside the passenger side door pocket. They also showed us images of all the ballistics gear that they found in and around the vehicle and pulled off a helmet, a tactical vest, as well as ballistic chaps and arm protection.

They also had one thing that was very interesting was some car jacks or I guess metal spikes you could call them that were found on the driver's side seat where they said those were the type of devices that you could throw outside the car the time that another vehicle would drive over and pop the tires.

BANFIELD: Aha, Interesting.

CABRERA: So we got a whole bunch of different evidence that the prosecution has now presented and it's continuing to come out...

BANFIELD: Amazing.

CABRERA: ... these missing pieces, we've heard from 55 different witnesses and we're only two weeks into the trial, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Ana Cabrera, thank you, what you just said those sticks out, the car jacks, those metal spikes, that tells you that the thought someone would chase after him because what he was doing was wrong. And that is what they have to prove to get him because right now he says he's not guilty by reason of insanity, didn't know right from wrong. Then why the car jack and why the ballistics, why the protective gear?

[13:00:07] Thank you for watching everyone. Wolf starts right now.