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Dr. Drew
A Pastor`s Twisted Personal Life Is Being Exposed On Twitter And Facebook, As He Was Having An Affair With Men And His Wife Now Mysteriously Dead, Found Him Out; Kevin Frasier Unfold The Latest On Bobbi Kristina Brown; A Principal Makes Outrageous And Explicitly Racist Comments At A Graduation
Aired May 11, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Welcome, welcome. This is the new "Dr. Drew" and this our very first show. Thank you all out there for joining us
tonight in the set.
(APPLAUSE)
We have a new studio audience, a live studio audience, which is very exciting. We are so delighted to have you here with us tonight, to have
them be a part of this. It is more theatrical with our panels, let us just say it.
We are taking your questions throughout the hour. On Twitter, you are going to use the hash tag, #NewDrDrew. Of course, we got lots of our
regulars here in the audience with us. I got Dr. Bill. I got Danine. I got Anahita. A whole bunch of our usuals are here with us in the audience.
But, what I want you to know is that it all starts right now.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(MUSIC INTRODUCTION)
PINSKY: Let us get started with the "Top Of The Feed." We call it the top of the feed. You heard it on Nancy a few minutes ago. A pastor`s
twisted personal life is being exposed on Twitter and Facebook. Damning e- mails, e-mails that I saw Nancy react to.
Again, we are live. We are just following Nancy. I was watching her and her reactions were priceless. He was having an affair with men and his
wife now mysteriously dead, found him out. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Richard Shahan, an Alabama Pastor is on trial for the murder of his wife. She was stabbed to death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN SMITH, HOMEWOOD POLICE LIEUTENANT: He is our only suspect at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: His e-mails obtained by Alabama.com reveal he was unhappy in his marriage and may have been having an affair
with a male lover in Europe.
(BEGIN AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT CLIP)
RICHARD SHAHAN, ALABAMA PASTOR (audio re-enactment): "I am in a legal marriage contract. There is not an acceptable way for me to dissolve that
and continue with the things that are important to me, my job and children.
There is only one way I could become legally single and I have to wait until God grants me that gift. It will come. The woman I lived with is
slowly killing herself. She is diabetic and refuses to take care of herself physically."
(END AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: His wife apparently found out about his double life and wrote this.
(BEGIN AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT)
KAREN SHAHAN, WIFE OF PASTOR RICHARD SHAHAN (audio re-enactment): "I told him that he cannot keep both lives, that he will have to lose one of
them. I told him that any texting or g-mail that does not bring glory to god has to go.
(END AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Yes, he has to lose one of them. What she did not realize is she is the one that would have to be lost. Joining us, Judy Ho, Clinical
Psychologist, Professor at Pepperdine University; Mike Catherwood, my co- host at "Love Line" and as well as on our KABC 790 TalkRadio show, Midday Here on Los Angeles; and Vanessa Barnett, Hiphollywood.com.
(APPLAUSE)
Vanessa, what do you think? I mean, he could not get out of this so he had to kill her, is that a possibility? I mean, that is -- He is the
only suspect in this case.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: He absolutely killed her. There is no question in my mind. He loved male sex. He did not want to be
married. So, he took her out.
PINSKY: Just because he loved male sex does not mean does not mean -- I mean --
BARNETT: Well, no --
PINSKY: He likes gay sex, does not mean he is a murderer, right?
BARNETT: No. There was a chain of events that happened here. He was caught. He was found out. He kept saying that he could not live this life
although he wanted to. He wanted her to die. He kept wishing for her to die.
PINSKY: He said that?
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes.
BARNETT: She had diabetes.
PINSKY: He is saying -- he is documenting that somewhere?
HO: Yes.
MIKE CATHERWOOD, DR. DREW "LOVE LINE" CO-HOST: I cannot wait for God to grant me this gift. She has diabetes --
HO: Yes.
BARNETT: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: She has diabetes and she does not take very good care of herself. So, it is only a matter of time for God to let her die.
PINSKY: Wishing her to die --
HO: And, God is going to help me, that is what he said in the email.
PINSKY: Wishing her to die --
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: -- is different than I am going to kill her or hire somebody?
CATHERWOOD: I agree. I agree. Listen. We do not have a smoking gun, Dr. Drew, but writing e-mails to your lover about how you wish your
wife was dead, it is a pretty good piece of -- you know --
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: All right. In our audience --
CATHERWOOD: It is a pretty good piece of evidence.
PINSKY: In our audience, our very own Anahita Sedaghatfar, Defense Attorney. She is here tonight. She is attorney, counsel at the Cochran
firm -- attorney of counsel at the Cochran firm. Anahita, you are a defense attorney. Mike is already laughing, whatever he got --
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He is laughing. I heard that.
PINSKY: Whatever else you have concocted to defend this man. I am kind of -- I may be lined up with you tonight. I do not see it as an open
and shut case. He did not necessarily do this. Is that right?
SEDAGHATFAR: Right, because clearly there is evidence that, `OK, he cheated on his wife.` Clearly, there was evidence that he was gay. He was
secretly gay. But, there is no direct evidence linking him to the murder.
PINSKY: So, what would your defense be?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I mean the defense has some really good arguments, actually. And, we did not talk about this in the little package over
there, but there was sperm. There was DNA found inside in his wife`s body on the night of the killings.
PINSKY: In -- in --
SEDAGHATFAR: Inside the wife`s body. Yes. And, the police --
PINSKY: Not like in her viscera but like in her vaginal vault.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
BARNETT: As there should have been.
CATHERWOOD: Vaginal vault?
PINSKY: As there should have been?
CATHERWOOD: Game of thrones, vaginal vault?
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: Let me unload the vaginal vault. I must find the gatekeeper to unlock the vaginal vault.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Anahita, bail me out here.
CATHERWOOD: Vaginal vault.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK. So, they found this DNA in her. They found footprints on the back door. And, the backdoor was broken into --
PINSKY: Like they kicked the backdoor.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. So, there is someone broke in.
PINSKY: But -- but --
SEDAGHATFAR: And, let me tell you this. There were series of break- ins that leading us.
PINSKY: In the neighborhood?
SEDAGHATFAR: In the neighborhood, even in this house.
PINSKY: What?
SEDAGHATFAR: So, I do not think this is a slam dunk by any means. So, what? OK, so convict him of being a cheater. Convict him of being
secretly gay. But last I checked this is a murder trial, guys, right? So, the prosecution needs a lot more.
CATHERWOOD: Who are any of us to argue with a good attorney about what the letter of the law --
PINSKY: You told me you were going to. Vanessa always does.
BARNETT: I will do it. I will do it. I will try.
CATHERWOOD: I do not think that I could prove that he did it in a court of law. I am simply saying that like, "In the court of public
opinion, if you are writing these emails that say, `Well, there is only one way I could become legally single`," --
Just throwing out the idea of the words. "There is only one way, I can become legally single and that is for my hag of a wife to die." And,
then all of a sudden a like week later she is slumped over her dinner with a --
PINSKY: But, let me ask you this. Would you take a case like this? Would you actually --
SEDAGHATFAR: I would take it? I would take it and I will tell you why. He has some viable defenses. There is no direct evidence linking him
to the killing. And, the defense -- I disagree with you, Mike, is going to use those e-mails and they are going to spin it in the defendant`s favor.
I did not see an e-mail where he said, "I am going to kill my wife. I plan on killing her." No! He is even saying, "I am going to wait until
God takes her." So, that is going to actually work in the defendant`s favor.
PINSKY: All right. Thank you for letting --
SEDAGHATFAR: I could give you a lot of defense.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I know you could --
SEDAGHATFAR: You know that.
PINSKY: We are going to talk about delusional thinking next in a minute. I think Anahita has jumped a shark here. I am just saying. No.
Thank you, just kidding. We are live. I cannot take that back. I can apologize for it, but I cannot take it back.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Coming up -- coming up. We are going to take a quick break here. You will hear from Bobbi Kristina Brown`s grandmother. We will be
right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN SMITH, HOMEWOOD POLICE LIEUTENANT: He is our only suspect at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Prosecutors contend before she was kill, Karen Shahan knew of her husband`s sexual preference for men and his
attempts to hide it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: They cite a February 2012 text from Karen saying, quote, "I told him he cannot keep both lives and he will have to
lose one of them." The another text is saying, quote, "I did not want any of those men to be involved with our family."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN LENTINE, RICHARD SHAHAN`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This case is going to be tried on fact, on proof, not on someone`s sexual orientation, not on
whether or not there was fidelity or infidelity in a marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, we are talking about the Alabama Pastor accused of murdering his wife. It is getting a lot of traction on social. We are
back with Judy, Mike and Vanessa. This man`s e-mails reveal that he was having affairs with multiple men. They are explicit. Here now is another
e-mail he sent to a male partner. Take a listen to this audio re- enactment.
(BEGIN AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT)
SHAHAN (audio re-enactment): I find myself thinking about and picturing myself packing up and leaving my life and moving to Scotland and
the two of us living together for the rest of our lives; or I find myself picturing you living with me in the house here and us living our lives day
to day in Birmingham.
(END AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT)
PINSKY: That is a gentle e-mail compared to what I saw on Nancy a few minutes ago. The e-mails I saw were more of the Jodi Arias caliber, yes?
HO: That is right. And, talk about cognitive dissonance at his works.
PINSKY: What -- explain what that is.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: You and I know what that is, but let us --
HO: Cognitive dissonance is when your beliefs do not match your actions and you try to reconcile in some way. So, a relative --
PINSKY: Yes. God loves me, but I am doing these bad things to my wife.
HO: Exactly. So, for him, he wrote an email where he says, "I am in a legal marriage, and there is no way I can dissolve that acceptably while
I continue with the activities that are important to me, like the church activities and his children." So, what? He finds a way to possibly murder
his wife and that is an acceptable way --
PINSKY: Right. So, this is --
HO: -- to make this work?
PINSKY: I want to say that again for Judy, which is that he is rationalizing is what he is doing. He is making it OK what his behavior is
and the question is, could he even have rationalized the fact that he had his wife murdered or murdered his wife?
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: Because -- well, it is probably better for her now that she is gone, because -- well, God -- he will have her and I will not keep
mistreating her. Now, I have someone in the audience who is -- had experience -- Karamo Brown, you have not done this, obviously. But, you
have --
KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: Killing my wife? No.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: No. You did not kill your wife, but you lived a kind of a double life before you came out, right?
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: Tell me about what that was like. And, did you have similar kinds sf distortions and rationalizations?
BROWN: Sure. I am an openly gay man now. But, there was a time when I was dating women. And, of course with the stigma that comes along with
religion, being African-American, it causes you to feel not as comfortable with being who you authentically are.
PINSKY: You were dating women.
BROWN: So, I was dating women, and so it was hard for me to reconcile how can I tell my church and family that I want to live my true self but --
and also tell the woman that I am loving at this time that, "Listen, this is who I am and not feel that I am going to be judged or lose my family and
friends."
PINSKY: How did you tell them? You were not married to this woman?
BROWN: No. No. This is just a girlfriend.
PINSKY: Let us say it was Vanessa.
BROWN: Yes.
BARNETT: Hey!
BROWN: I would not be getting divorced if it was Vanessa.
PINSKY: What would you say to Vanessa if this were that time when you have to be honest to her?
BROWN: Well --
PINSKY: Or would you just kill her and be done with it?
BROWN: Well, it is funny because Vanessa -- If that was my girlfriend, there is a ton of Mikes around Vanessa, and earlier he said the
public opinion. And, so what happens is that you get suede.
And, it is hard for gay men or anybody in the LBGT community to be their real self, because you have the public opinion that says, "They are
wrong. They are gross. This is wrong. You are the onen at fault."
When no one is supporting them. And, so, what I had to eventually do was just come to a place and say, listen, "I want you to be happy and I
want me to be happy. So, let us just break off clearly." And, you can see from --
PINSKY: Hold on. Vanessa, there you go.
BROWN: Yes.
BARNETT: If you say it right you can end up best friends with your ex-wife.
BROWN: Yes.
BARNETT: If you say it right. But, he did not say it. He stabbed it allegedly.
HO: But, this is what is happening with this man, right? He has these bounds, his values that he ascribed his entire life to. And, so he
cannot make heads or tails about it. He cannot just say let me have a nice conversation because for him that --
PINSKY: He literally cannot believe he is doing what he is doing. He literally cannot accept it.
CATHERWOOD: If he is so closely connected to his vows as a pastor and his religious beliefs, but what is he doing involved in infidelity to begin
with. You know, it just strikes me --
PINSKY: But that is the point. No. No, listen. I cure drug addicts. You know what people do. You do things just --
CATHERWOOD: Yes, but I never claimed to be of anybody of any like -- you know higher ground.
PINSKY: No, I understand. But, you know what that thing is of sometimes doing things you really do not want to do, you do it anyway.
CATHERWOOD: That is great.
HO: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: I mean listen. Let us just -- when we are role playing with Karamo, let us pretend I am his gay lover, just for my sake. I do not
like that I dea.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes. OK.
CATHERWOOD: I do not like that idea.
BROWN: Are we coming out, Mike? Are we going to tell them this is happening?
PINSKY: OK.
CATHERWOOD: Stigma.
PINSKY: From the audience, do we have a question other than Karamo? Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE (1): I understand there are men out there who have sex with other men.
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE (1): And, they do not consider themselves bisexual or gay.
PINSKY: Which is interesting. So, that is the men who have sex with men category, which is men who do not identify -- that is like Mike.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: I love to be one of those guys. I just cannot make the transition. I am cursed by loving vagina too much.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: But, I am around a lot of those guys. And, to me it always seems like they seem to come from a really like, macho world.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Where it is just they cannot admit to not only themselves but to the people around them that they are in fact homosexual.
PINSKY: Right. And, Judy, we deal with this all the time.
HO: That is right. And, actually, in certain areas it is culturally acceptable to experiment in certain years. It is sort of like a rite of
passage.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: So, there are some countries where men will experiment with having sex with other men. That is nothing to do with their sexual
identity.
PINSKY: However, the whole men who have sex with men category came about because of HIV research, AIDS research. We found these guys that
came up with HIV and AIDS but would not identify as gay. So, we had to come up with a separate category, called men who have sex with men, not
gay.
They do not identify as a homosexual. They just have done this on the DL and it becomes a category and some people say there are people that are
too stigmatize, too afraid to come out. Other people say it is experimentation, whatever.
Whatever it was, it was very important to be able to identify people that were at risk that were not specifically identified at risk because of
identification but because of their behavior.
This guy I feel sad for this guy. This is a tragedy of humongous proportion, whether this guy killed his wife or he did not. If he did, he
will get what is coming to him.
We have coming up, your questions at #DrDrewQue. We are back after this.
(AUDIENCE APLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Time now for a segment we call "Sexting." Because we are a live show, this makes me nervous. It is your chance to ask me and Mike and
the panel, Judy, Vanessa, all your sex and relationship questions.
And, we are going to start with Eric on Twitter, who asked, "Is sex addition real? And do you think it is over diagnosed?" It is definitely
real. It is a construct. We definitely see lots of it.
There are websites you can get more information about it, something, centerforhealthysex.com is a place. Judy, you and I see it as a useful
construct. When it really afflicts people, it really can be bad.
HO: That is right. And, actually, it usually goes hand and hand with other types of addiction problems.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: So, that is why it is a useful construct.
PINSKY: Or people once they leave the chemical addiction or left over with the sexation, addiction generally is overused. I will give you that
one. Let us go to our audience. We have -- yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE (2): Hi, Drew. We have been together for a while and we have a lot of sex.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Hang on a second. That is her perspective. What is his?
HO: This is just bragging. That is not even a question, right? What is your point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Yes. Our question is, how much is too much sex and who is the person who can actually be the one to determine
that? Because what may be normal to someone else could be not enough --
PINSKY: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: -- and not enough -- you know the difference.
PINSKY: It is actually a complicated question. I would say -- would not you agree, there is no hard and fast rule to this. You have to
evaluate the couple.
HO: No.
BARNETT: I disagree. Hard and fast rule is if you cannot walk in the morning, then you probably overdid it.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes. If you are hurting the other person, that is a good rule, right, Mike?
CATHERWOOD: I agree with Vanessa. But, if it starts to affect the female`s posture, you know that you are getting into some type of trouble.
PINSKY: But, Judy, sometimes it can be a little addictive. The relationship can be addictive within the relationship. It can sort of be a
pseudo intimacy. And, it can be also an acting-out bipolar disorder or other addictions.
HO: That is right. It can be used as an avoidance technique.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: So, you do not have fights, you just have sex.
CATHERWOOD: Well -- a lot of times when there is no real substance to the relationship, often times it can be a nice veneer to hide that.
PINSKY: How many times are we talking about?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: In a weekend or a week? Our record is --
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: On average. On average.
HO: Average. Average.
PINSKY: I do not want the world records here. I want average.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I really wanted to tell them. Say five a day.
PINSKY: Ooh!
BARNETT: Wow.
PINSKY: So, that is getting a --
BARNETT: How do you have that much time?
PINSKY: That is powerful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Yes. Right.
HO: You have jobs, right? Do you guys work?
BARNETT: Do you guys have jobs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: We work it around our schedule.
HO: Wow!
PINSKY: That is right. That is a lot.
HO: OK. No -- I was asking that question seriously because if it is starting to impact their work --
PINSKY: If it affects functioning, it is really a problem.
HO: That is right.
PINSKY: But, it is also, you know, if you have a history of sexual abuse, bipolar --
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: -- I would definitely look at it as a sign. Twitter, Brett asks, "Are there any rules to having a threesome?" Mike?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. I honestly -- listen, here is the best advice I can give you. If you are going to do it, make sure it is with someone that --
if you are dating them, you have no desire to make this a long-term relationship.
If you are just like banging casually, you know, "Hey! Let us bring someone else in the bedroom." Go for it. But, if you are like married or
you have a relationship that you really care about and you are thinking that this may take it to a new level --
PINSKY: No.
CATHERWOOD: -- bad idea. It never goes well.
PINSKY: If you are going to go to Judy for marital counseling, are you ever going to recommend bringing more people into the relationship,
ever, ever?
HO: Oh, no. I do not think so.
PINSKY: It makes things worst. But, you are a young knuckle head and you have a chance with two random people, go for it.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: All right. Do not applaud him. And, by the way, the control room, you guys have a, like a delay button you have got your feet on. OK.
From the audience, yes, ma`am.
KEISHA: My name is Keisha. My question is I am single and I am wondering with this kind of sex obsessed type of thing I am seeing in
dating, is there any chance of dating without sex and actually getting to know someone and get married to them?
PINSKY: Mike says -- yes, getting married, yes. Mike says no on the dating without sex.
CATHERWOOD: No. I do not say no. You definitely got to work very hard. If you are straight. You have to work very hard to find a guy who
is willing to put up with that. I mean they are out there.
PINSKY: Judy.
HO: Wait a minute. Not put up.
BARNETT: It is worth it. It is worth it. If you find a guy that is willing to wait, then it is worth it.
PINSKY: OK. Well, if.
BARNETT: If.
HO: Listen. Listen, it should not be put up or anything like that. You just need to set your boundaries early. So, if you are somebody who
wants to get to know someone without sex as a distraction, you just let them know early. And, if they are not around, that means they do not want
to do that with you, good riddance.
PINSKY: And, you are unlikely -- you are unlikely to find somebody when you are swiping left or right or whatever direction you swipe.
HO: Yes. Do not go on that stuff.
PINSKY: And met it through friends.
CATHERWOOD: If you like strangers better.
PINSKY: On Facebook, I have Avery, who says -- do asked, "Do guys like it when women ask them out or will I seem desperate? I have really --
Mike, we have not discussed this, but I have almost never find a guy that did not like that. We are lazy by nature. If you are going to take that
job away from us, too, fantastic.
CATHERWOOD: I would not say that guys are lazy by nature. I think guys are tremendously intimidated by women, still.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Even the most confident guys, they may lie. But, every guy deep down is very intimidated at the prospect of approaching a woman
that he finds attractive.
BARNETT: But, if he cannot ask me out, what does that say about you as a man?
CATHERWOOD: I agree. I do not disagree with that.
PINSKY: Listen. And, we are not skilled at saying no. We do not know how to do that. We get very weird and awkward if we want to say no
and somebody asks us out. We do not know what that -- how to negotiate that.
HO: Right. Right.
PINSKY: It is just like, we do not want to hurt their feelings, but we sort of make weird excuses and disappear and stuff.
HO: Right. Right.
CATHERWOOD: I mean I hate to give such a vague answer. But, I think she is definitely not going to seem desperate, but at the same time I think
Vanessa is right. It is a rite of passage guys should learn to do.
PINSKY: Yes. Men should be better. And, women should not feel restrain from having to do so themselves. From the audience, you have
question. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: What are the negative effects of quitting masturbation?
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
BARNETT: Blue balls.
HO: Negative effects? How often are you masturbating a day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Well, I quit.
PINSKY: Well, hang on.
CATHERWOOD: Why did you quit? Why did you quit? What is going on? What, are you in ISIS? Why would you quit masturbating? That is the worst
thing I ever heard.
PINSKY: I am just saying.
HO: Again, Dr. Drew --
CATHERWOOD: You quit masturbating!
PINSKY: You would quit if you had a problem like if you had an addiction. One of the things you make a circle plan -- Hang on. And, so,
you could stop and you know your testosterone levels can drop. There could be a little problematic for you prostate sometimes. But, it really is not
a big problem.
And, by the way, if there is a physiological problem for it, God will take care of it for you while you sleep at night. Got to go here. Next
up, nobody got that one? Nobody understood that? You will have a nocturnal emission. That is what will happen.
Next up, I have "E.T.`s" Kevin Frazier here with us. He is going to bring us the latest on Bobbi Kristina Brown. And, we are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: It has been 100 days since Bobbi Kristina Brown was been found face down in a bathtub. She has been
unresponsive ever since. The battle over her future is heating up. Her grandmother, Cissy Houston, spoke exclusively to "E.T.`s" Kevin Frazier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIEVIN FRASIER, E.T. HOST: How is Krissy doing?
CISSY HOUTON, WHITNEY HOUSTON`S MOM: It is difficult. She is the same. She is not progressing at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Cissy is one of the three decision makers who have a say in Bobbi Kristina`s care and her inheritance. Her
father, Bobby Brown, learned he could be sharing control over her health with her aunt Pat.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Bobbi Kristina has been unresponsive in a chronic vegetative state for 100 days. This is a segment we call "Celebrity Behavior." Back
with Judy, Mike, Vanessa. Here now is more from Bobbi Kristina`s grandmother, Cissy, who by the way is finally becoming somebody sensible
amongst these family members. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOUSTON: She is not gone yet, but you know, whatever the lord decides I am ready for. That is his job. That is his territory, you know. And, I
understand it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, there is nothing to live for. So, if God would take her, that would probably be the kindest thing for somebody in this kind of
a state. Joining us, Kevin Frazier, co-host of "Entertainment Tonight." Kevin, is Cissy becoming more realistic? Does she see this for what it is?
And, is she the only one that is sort of getting it?
KEVIN FRASIER, ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT`S CO-HOST: CWell, no, no. Cissy understands it, Pat Houston understands what is going on. They were
perplexed that earlier in the month that they heard other family members going out in the public --
PINSKY: Saying she is awake.
FRASIER: She is awake. She is talking. She is not. Nothing has changed. And, that is what Cissy says in the interview that nothing has
changed. And, they have prepared themselves for the worst.
PINSKY: Are they praying for her to pass? I mean sometimes, listen, when people are in vegetative states, it is the worst possible thing. The
fact that we as physicians play God and put these people in suspended animation. It is the worst thing imaginable. I will come back -- and you
put me in that state, I will come get you. I will haunt you. It is the worst thing. I have seen so many disasters. I know you have to. You are
a nurse. You have been in ICU many times. Kevin
FRASIER: She has severe brain damage and they understand that. There will be no comeback. At least that has been what they have been told by
all the doctors. She will not come back from that. And, because of that, they understand and they understand they are just waiting right now.
They can still pray for a miracle. She can hope for a miracle. Cissy says when she goes to the hospital, she talks to Bobbi Kristina. Pat
Houston is there every single day. But, they do not expect a change.
PINSKY: Yes.
FRASIER: They do not expect a miracle, which is the sad part of it?
PINSKY: Vanessa, you see this thing?
BARNETT: Oh, good God! It is brain.
PINSKY: See that thing? In poor Bobbi Kristina`s situation, that thing is not looking like that. It is liquefied. It is damaged. It is
scarred, it is gone. It just does not function.
BARNETT: I completely understand what you are saying but I do not agree that we can just go in and making these decisions and pulling plugs.
I have heard that she is breathing on her own --
PINSKY: No pulling plugs. No pulling. This is what drives me insane. This is not about pulling plugs.
CATHERWOOD: No more plugs to pull.
PINSKY: There are no plugs to pull. This is about keeping somebody alive, knowing that that is where it is going to end up. We know when that
is going to happen.
BARNETT: But if she is breathing on her own, do you want to run in and put a pillow on her face.
PINSKY: No. No.
BARNETT: What do you want to do this one?
PINSKY: No. No. But I would -- If I get in that condition, I want you to pray for me to stop breathing.
BARNETT: I would pray. I believe --
PINSKY: And, if I get a pneumonia, which I will get or if I get a skin breakdown or skin infection. I want you not to treat it. Is that what
they are getting into know?
FRASIER: That is what they expect that eventually she will get pneumonia. She will get some kind of skin infection. Something will
happen that will lead to her demise. So, that is why they are really -- It is a countdown. And, it breaks their heart, because you look at this
situation --
PINSKY: Of course it saddened but they do not have a chance. Judy, they cannot ever grieve because this thing has been dragged out over how
many months, 100 days, needlessly.
HO: That is right, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I was saying it on day of eight or whatever it was. I could see the handwriting on the wall, because when you have been in these
situations, you know when it is salvageable and you know when it is not.
HO: That is right. You know from experience. And, I think the problem is while she is in suspended animation the entire family is as well
and think about all of the family dealing with their own mortality issues, which often times comes up, when you are seeing daughter -- They are not
able to grieve right now.
PINSKY: Yes, they cannot grieve and they cannot -- somebody`s daughter, it is just awful. But, I am wondering, Anahita, if there are
sort of legal issues here, or there is financial motivation? Do you see other things I am not seeing here?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I am sure the hospitals and caretakers have their is dotted and their Ts crossed.
PINSKY: Right.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, sadly, though, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Well -- but explain why. I know why that would be.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, they do not want to be sued for malpractice. They do not want to be sued if there is even a half of a percent chance she can
make it. And, we know there is a lot of liabilities to health for practicing --
PINSKY: No. Listen. There is -- What their concern -- It is a little bit twistier than that, Anahita. It is that she is not going to
make it.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: And, when she does not, they are going to blame somebody. And, if they find a little thing out of line, wrongful death. There you
go.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is why they need to disclose everything. And, I am sure they are. This is so high profile. This is all over the media. I
think the hospital is being very smart about this.
PINSKY: Kevin?
FRASIER: But, I think in this case there are other factors that they understood played into this. And, they are not as concern how --
PINSKY: Like what? What do you mean?
FRASIER: -- The hospital -- the fact that she was found face down in a bathtub.
PINSKY: To Nick`s --
FRASIER: There are other factors.
PINSKY: You know what I think about that? His behavior on the Dr. Phil was just bizarre. I mean that kid was sick, I mean very, very, will.
FRASIER: What everybody has to understand is that Nick has never been to the hospital. He was not allowed to the hospital. He was not allowed
to the hospital. He has separated from --
PINSKY: We saw his behavior.
FRASIER: They do not want him. They do not want him anywhere near her.
PINSKY: But, we saw his behavior on Dr. Phil. If he could come in that hospital, they could put him in the psych ward.
FRASIER: You have to understand that they were trying to get her away from Nick at the time she passed.
PINSKY: I did not know that.
FRASIER: They did not want them together. And, they knew what was wrong. And, that is why the family is working so hard to keep them apart,
because it was not a good situation for her. They feared that something like this would happen.
PINSKY: Did anybody have a theory about what did happen here? Was this pill related or something?
FRASIER: Drew, there are all kinds of theories bouncing around.
PINSKY: Yes. I am sure.
FRASIER: You know, in this situation, every day there is a new theory in there. There are theories inside the family that we have learned from
sources. It will come -- in the end, the truth always comes to the top. We will learn the truth. We will learn the truth.
PINSKY: You guys have any questions, Mike?
CATHERWOOD: I am always so shocked by situations like this where a lot of times people are motivated to keep someone in a suspended animation
state because of moral, religious, spiritual reasons.
And, I am not the most religious guy, but I do believe that anything that is waiting for Bobbi Kristina and people like her, patients like her,
on the other side has to be better than being stuck in a hospital bed.
PINSKY: Listen. Mike, you are so right. Kevin, thank you.
FRASIER: Thank you for having me here. Congratulations on the new format.
PINSKY: Thank you. I appreciate it. You can see more of Kevin`s interview with Cissy Houston tonight on "ET, Entertainment Tonight." But,
I want to talk to Mike, just real quickly here, which is people have it so backwards. Like we cannot play God. We cannot play God. We cannot play
God. Le the doctors.
No. That is the doctors playing God. When they get in the way and they know that it is going to end up in a bad place and they are playing
God by getting in the way of nature taking its course, that is us playing God, not us not allowing things to unfold.
We have it all backwards in how we think about these things. There are times to intervene for sure -- For sure. There are situations where it
may work out and there are situations that are fatal, that are not going to work out.
And, there are situations where almost guaranteed, almost guaranteed to survive but end up in a chronic vegetative state. Now, if you do not
want to end up like that, get a directive to physicians going, make sure wishes very, very clear.
Next up, a principal makes outrageous and explicitly racist comments at a graduation. The "Click Fix" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Time for our "Click Fix." Our guests, tell us what is capturing their imagination on their Facebook and Twitter and Instagram
feeds. Back with Judy, Mike and Vanessa. Vanessa, you start.
BARNETT: Crazy story that I first saw on YouTube but now it is taking over Twitter. So, you have those graduation. Everyone is excited. This
principal, however, is not, because she accidentally dismisses everyone early, before the valedictorian can give his speech. And, so, as she is
telling families to come back, they are leaving. She is telling them to come back, come back. No one is hearing her. No one pays attention. And,
she just goes ham, she loses it on these people --
PINSKY: She goes ham?
BARNETT: Yes. Hard as a -- she goes crazy.
CATHERWOOD: She goes ham.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
BARNETT: Of course everybody has their phones out. So, they captured it on video. We have the video. Take a look. Watch.
PINSKY: We have it. Great.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PRINCIPAL: You all owe this young man an apology. You all are the rudest people I have ever seen in my life. Close those
doors. Close the doors now.
SPECTATOR: She is off her rocker. Get her. Get her. She is off her rocker. That means do not argue with a crazy person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PRINCIPAL: You people are being so rude to not listen to this speech. It was my fault that we missed it in the program.
Look who is leaving -- all the black people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.
BARNETT: Yeah.
PINSKY: And, then my understanding is she then says that the devil is what made her do that.
BARNETT: Right. So, now, they are calling her the racist principal. And, she said, "Basically, the devil made me do it." She went real old
school, "the devil made me do it."
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
HO: Wow! That is old school.
BARNETT: And, you know what, Dr. Drew? I actually agree. It has to be a whole lot of devil in this woman to think she could get in this room
full of black people and say, "Oh, look! All the black people are leaving." Like that is just crazy.
PINSKY: I could not tell -- does she have a racial, any particular color, any?
BARNETT: She is white.
PINSKY: A white person.
BARNETT: Yes.
PINSKY: And, it is so bizarre.
BARNETT: In a room full of black people.
HO: She is 1800 old school.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Right. OK. Let us do an exorcism on her. I will say people could have fun doing that. All right, listen, we might get into that story
again. I might bring that one back tomorrow.
CATHERWOOD: Why blame the poor devil? I mean --
PINSKY: No. You got a point.
CATHERWOOD: What we know about Satan is that at the very least he does not discriminate. He certainly is not a racist.
PINSKY: No. You are right. The Satan would not be a reasonable explanation. This is something far more human. Mike, what do you got?
CATHERWOOD: I listen to Nick in the U K. What a moron. All right, he broke up with his partner. He is a gay guy. He had a long-term
relationship and they broke up. They were living together.
And, he said that his ex-partner used to wear the same underwear three, four days in a row, and grossed him out so much. But, now, he is
addicted to buying new underwear. The guy is a restaurant -- He works in the restaurant industry. He damn near went bankrupt for buying new
underwear every day, like $5,000, $6,000, $7,000.
PINSKY: What?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. What a nudnik.
HO: Nudnik? Ham and nudnik.
CATHERWOOD: I am thinking back in the 1800 as well.
PINSKY: Israel, though. But, I wonder if he is manic. I am trying to understand the behavior. I mean you do not get addicted to buying
underwear. You know what I mean?
CATHERWOOD: And this is what he said. He says it with kind of a laugh. But, I mean shopping addiction is a real thing, right, Judy?
PINSKY: Yes. Is it possible.
HO: Sometimes it is part of mania, which is what Dr. Drew was kind of getting at. Is there possible that there is something there? Because it
does not make any sense. I mean why is he hoarding just the underwear and to this extent?
PINSKY: I almost wonder if he got a medical problem or something. Something really has gone haywire.
BARNETT: Victoria Secret used to have a sale 5 for $25 and I used to be addicted to it. When I was in college.
PINSKY: OK. OK. You were taking pictures every day. OK. Fair enough. All right, Judy, your turn.
HO: OK. I am not going to follow those up. But, you are going to be happy about this one. There is a police chief in Massachusetts. He posted
something on Facebook. It has been shared 30,000 times about how he does not want to put drug addicts in jail. In fact, he wants to treat them.
PINSKY: No. What is wrong? Why would I not like that?
HO: No. I said you are going to really like it.
PINSKY: OK.
HO: I think you are going to really like it.
PINSKY: OK.
HO: And, everything is great because he says that a drug addict should not be treated differently from somebody who gets lung cancer. They
should get treatment. So, this is really cool. If you walk in to the -- everybody if you are in Massachusetts, if you want to walk in with your
drug paraphernalia, they are not going to put you in jail. They are going to give you treatment and they are going to pay for it using the money they
get from drug raids.
PINSKY: Oh my God. That is so great. Hats off to that police department. I got someone in the audience who often did I agrees with me,
Danine Manette. I wonder where Danine Manette is? She is a criminal investigator. She is an author of a new book, "Messages From Joe: A Few
Things I Need You To Know About Life, Friendship, Money, Love, Self." Danine, you agree with me on this one? You are going to fight me on this?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: No. I love this. As soon as I read about it, I said this is perfect. I mean we have the whole gun buy-
back program where you can -- This has a dual purpose though. You can bring in your stuff and you can also get help. I think it is absolutely
important. And, also --
PINSKY: You do not want to wasting money and time on treating drug addicts in jail.
MANETTE: No. No. No. This is not wasting money and time.
PINSKY: No. No. No. What I am saying is, you do not want to see these people in the prison system later. You waste a ton of money, a ton
of time and do nothing for them.
MANETTE: Exactly, because the drug addict today is the person that is going to go knock you over the head and steal your purse tomorrow.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: So, we kind of nip this in the bud. We have the safe surrender for the babies. We have like I said, the gun buyback program.
Let us do something pro-active, forward thinking. I love it. I love it.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Would you also, I am curious, would everybody else go for the needle exchange programs? Needle exchange, yes or no?
MANETTE: Yes.
PINSKY: Needle exchange? You are good with that?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: How about people being given heroin and heron like shooting galleries and things that they are addicted?
MANETTE: I am not -- I am a little queasy on that.
PINSKY: OK. Not so much.
CATHERWOOD: Even the addict here, no, that does not sound like a good idea.
PINSKY: OK. Yes. I agree with that. But, why did we draw the line at heroin? We give them methadone. We give them pills. I do not know.
Again, this whole idea of good drugs, bad drugs.
CATHERWOOD: Especially when you get to opiate-based stuff. You are right, it is a slippery slope. Something about the idea of kind of the
narcotic being given out.
PINSKY: The administration bothers me. The I.V. use, I am not cool. So, I grant you on that. And, it is a little weird enabling an addict.
That is the other part that is weird about that. But, the needle exchange, I am all for it.
Next up, ask me anything. I am going to answer whatever questions you guys have. You can use your #DrDrew`sQues. And, thank you to our fans.
We are trending on Twitter right now. So, keep those Twitter right now.
So, keep those Twitter questions coming. Again, we are live, #NewDrDrew. And, again, whatever you want to ask me, I will attempt to
answer. So, be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: It is time now for what we call "Dr. Drew`s Qs" where you ask, and I make every effort I can to answer anything. I really want to be
able to have this be an environment where you feel comfortable asking whatever whether it is through Twitter or Facebook or right here in the
audience.
And, by the way, please join us in the audience. You can get tickets a at hlntv.com/drdrew. Jordan on Twitter first asked here, "Do you ever
meet a patient and think they cannot be rehabilitated?"
And, unfortunately, absolutely -- I mean just the way just I might come upon a cancer patient with far advance cancer. I might go with this
person is just going to die, no matter what we attempt. Our best efforts will not be successful for this patient with 99 percent probability or 100
percent probability.
The same thing is true with addiction. People do not like to think about that when it comes to behavioral diseases and psychiatric conditions.
But, absolutely, the same thing can be true. You can look at people and go, the prognosis is terrible.
And, if that is the case, sometimes you have to take care of yourself, I mean the doctor, but the family members, take care of the family members
more than the identified patient if things are hopeless. I try to have hope for everybody. I try to hope for everybody. I try -- I will make an
effort but the prognosis can still be terrible sometimes. Question from the audience. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Hi, Dr. Drew. I have finals next week and I have a crush on my professor.
PINSKY: In what? What is your finals?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: It is investigation of homicidal behavior and he is an officer.
PINSKY: Fantastic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: And, I am totally in love with him. And, I have one week to make my move. What do you suggest?
PINSKY: No, no, no. I suggest -- is he watching the show right now possibly?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I hope not. I want to be sly. I do not think he watches HLN.
PINSKY: Thank you for that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: He watches "I.D.," though. Darren Kavinoky.
PINSKY: Darren Kavinoky. He will make the appeal for you. But, first of all, thank you for such a rousing vote of confidence for my show
and HLN by guessing he would not be watching --
UNDIENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I am a big fan.
PINSKY: If he is watching, here it comes. Listen --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Seven deadly sins.
PINSKY: Over here. Over here. Enough with the murder part and those guys. Finish your class. He is your professor. Treat him as your
professor. If he responds to you before that, it is a bad sign.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I know. He has been so good. That is why I like him.
PINSKY: No. No. Listen. It is a bad sign. If he violates that sanctity of this relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: So, after my final.
PINSKY: And, once he is no longer your teacher, you can send him a note or something and see if he responds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: OK. Thank you so much.
PINSKY: All right. You got it. Is there any subject that comes up that makes you uncomfortable? It happens all the time. I am kind of --
you know, I got thin skin, really in my core. And, so people can get angry. They can come on -- all kinds of crazy things can happen in a
clinical situation that can make you very uncomfortable, terribly uncomfortable.
But, I try to stay focused on the job at hand, which often carries you through. You read your own feelings rather than experiencing them as
something that you are owning so much. From the audience, yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFED MALE SPEAKER: I have got hyperhidrosis.
PINSKY: Nice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: A.K.A. I got wet armpit.
PINSKY: Yes. Which is really way more serious than people think. I mean you cannot write --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Touch screen.
PINSKY: Yes. Touch screen. Disaster. When you shake hands, people think you are shady or something is wrong. Fist pump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Fist pump.
PINSKY: So, why do not you get an operation to fix that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I was going to ask you about that. Is it a safe thing to do on your armpit?
PINSKY: Yes. They go towards the neck. It is the sympathetic ganglion here that they clip and I worked exceedingly. Well, in fact,
their hands are so dry afterwards. It is sort of they are almost ashy. They are sort of they are like it gets so dry.
And, it kind of bothers them. If you look online, you will see reports of people having sort of generalized, sort of emotional reactions
from it where their bodies sweat in different places and it bothers them.
And, it can be something that -- I think it is very good. I am not sure if those reactions are real. I worry the autoimmune and nervous
system really have some connections to our emotional system. So, I worry those reports might be right but that operation really does work like
crazy. It is done laparoscopically. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Prescription pain medication a.k.a narcotics.
PINSKY: Awful. Disaster.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Is it something that you can be on long term without becoming an addict?
PINSKY: The answer is yes. I mean you never always or never in medicine. But, listen, prescription opiates plus benzodiazepine, if you
are on medication like that, that combination can kill you. It kills -- one of my patients died, that is the combination they die of. The problem
with you asking that question is can you be on opiates and not be an addict.
There is almost no reason today to be on chronic opiates. Almost, not a reason. I am not saying you cannot be. But, the chronic pain treatment
community has finally changed their orientation completely where opiates are finally recognized as a not an adequate treatment for chronic pain,
because they make chronic pain worse. But, the answer to your question is, yes, you can and not be addicted is possible.
All right, everybody, I want to thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks of course, to the studio audience. You have been fantastic.
Thank you to our regulars who have joined us tonight. Thank you. And if you are at home, DVR us anytime. And, a personal thanks to Albie Hecht and
Keith Brown who is here with me today who are objected to this program. "Forensic Files" is up next.
END
