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Erin Burnett Outfront
Protesters Take To Streets After Officer is Cleared; No Charges For Officer Who Shot Unarmed Teen Seven Times; Investigator: Tom Brady Probe "Not A Sting Operation." Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired May 12, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:09] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news. Protesters gathering in Madison, Wisconsin, at this hour. No charges against a Wisconsin police officer who shot and killed an unarmed teen. That teen's uncle is OUTFRONT.
And more breaking news. A missing U.S. helicopter, six marines onboard. The search is beginning at this hour. Plus, the top deflate-gate investigator slamming Tom Brady today as Brady's agent vows to fight that penalty with everything he's got. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with the breaking news. Protesters gathering in Madison, Wisconsin tonight. It is a scene that has played out now in cities across the United States. A district attorney in Madison just announcing there will be no charges against the police officer who shot and killed an unarmed teen. You're looking at live pictures right now at the streets of Madison. The crowds are growing at this hour. Protesters there demanding justice for the 19-year-old, Tony Robinson. Robinson was shot seven times by Officer Matt Kenny. This happened back on March 6th. So, you see Tony right there. So, we'll show you the officer in just a moment.
Witnesses described Robinson running in and out of traffic, punching and choking people. Officer Kenny, as you see there, he was the first on the scene. He found Robinson inside a second floor apartment. He described running into a violent young man. He said that Robinson was out of control. He said he attacked him. Kenny then shot Robinson at close range and Robinson died a short time later. Now, the D.A. who made the announcement today about his decision not to charge the police officer called for peace. Taking great pains to describe himself as a biracial man, and the first person of color to be a D.A. in Wisconsin.
Stephanie Elam is OUTFRONT tonight in Madison. And Stephanie, what are you seeing there?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right here, we did see a protest earlier, Erin, and this is where Tony Robinson died, in this gray and white building here behind me. This is where everything happened. And to better understand how we got here, take a look at how March 6th played out.
ISMAEL OZANNE, DANE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I conclude that this tragic and unfortunate death was the result of a lawful use of deadly police force. And that no charges should be brought against Officer Kenny in the death of Tony Robinson, Jr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAM (voice-over): Today's decision from the Wisconsin district attorney comes two months after the fatal encounter between Officer Matt Kenny and Tony Robinson. The teen's family responded angrily.
SHARON IRVING, GRANDMOTHER OF TONY ROBINSON: Look, I just want to tell you about my grandson, because he's been slandered from the beginning. And he was set up. I wear a sweater because this is the only comfort that I have left.
ELAM: Friday night, March 6th, Madison police receive reports of trouble on the street.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Look for a male black, light skin, tan jacket and jeans. Outside yelling and jumping in front of cars. Nineteen years of age. Name of Tony Robinson.
ELAM: Robinson's friends and family members told a local newspaper that the 19-year-old biracial teen had taken hallucinogenic mushrooms that day and had been acting erratically, punching friends and strangers.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Apparently, Tony hit one of his friends. No weapon seen.
ELAM: Another caller tells police Robinson tried to choke him.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Suspect's currently at the gas station in the area, no shirt on right now.
ELAM: Officer Kenney, a 12-year veteran of the force, was first on the scene. According to the police investigation, Kenny said he heard what sounded like walls being punched, things thrown inside a second-floor apartment. Kenny entered the apartment where he said he was punched in the head by Robinson.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Shots fired. Shots fired.
ELAM: Backing down the stairs and out, Kenney shot Robinson seven times, striking him in the head and torso. Robinson died a short time later. Police say Officer Kenny suffered a concussion. Days of peaceful protests followed.
CHIEF MIKE KOVAL, MADISON POLICE DEPARTMENT: He was unarmed. And that's going to make this all the more complicated for the investigators, for the public. To accept, to understand that deadly force had to be used.
ELAM: Both men have complicating histories. Robinson was on parole after pleading guilty to armed robbery a few months earlier. And in 2007, Officer Kenny shot and killed a white man during a confrontation[W71]. It was ruled a suicide by cop. Kenny was not only exonerated but received a commendation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ELAM: And I was in that press conference that the D.A. held, and it was interesting to note how he started the press conference explaining how he is biracial, that his mother is a black woman from Alabama and how he understands that this is nuanced because of the fact that he knows that there is a different relationship between young black men and police officers. But as far as the family is concerned, they say that there is more to Tony Robinson than what's been played out in the media. And that's the part that they want the world to know -- Erin.
[19:05:22] BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Stephanie. And the family of Tony Robinson had to listen to the district attorney today. They were there, they heard him describe how the 19-year-old was killed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OZANNE: The audio recording from a responding officer captured the sound of seven shots fired in approximately three seconds. Three shots followed by three shots, followed by one shot. All seven shots hit Tony Robinson, Jr. at close range. This was confirmed on autopsy. All bullets hit Robinson from front to back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Joining me OUTFRONT now, Turin Carter, that is Tony Robinson's uncle. And Turin, I appreciate you taking the time. I know this is a very difficult time for your family and not the way that you all had hoped this day would have gone. The D.A. declaring your nephew's death as the result of lawful use of police force. You just heard the D.A. talking about how Tony was shot, of course, those seven times at close range. Which I know is horrible for you to have to keep rehearing. But the decision was not to bring charges against that officer. The decision was that what he did was justified. What's your reaction?
TURIN CARTER, UNCLE OF TONY ROBINSON: I think it's important to keep in mind that this was not the trial of Matt Kenny, rather the decision to indict him, and the decision if there's enough sufficient evidence that there should be a trial. And as citizens of this country, I believe that we should have had that due process and had a trial by our peers and a jury of our peers, rather, for them to ultimately decide Matt Kenny's innocence or guilt, with both of us being able to present as much evidence as we so chose. And I think that that decision was cut short. And that we don't have that opportunity willingly that we have to go and pursue it.
BURNETT: The District Attorney Ismael Ozanne, he met with your family after the announcement. What did he say to you?
CARTER: He spoke briefly about some of the factors that led to his decision making. It wasn't much different than the press conference, rather him telling us in person and trying to give us at least that.
BURNETT: And I know you must have appreciated that, but Turin, let me get one thing here that he did mention, as our reporter was just talking about. He talked about race. He talked about how he himself is biracial, he talked about the relationship between young black men and police, which is important in this case and important in so many cities around this nation. He, the D.A., is biracial, as I said. Your nephew is biracial. The police officer here was white. People want to know how you feel about that. Do you think that this was, in your view, just a case of excessive force by police? Do you think that race played a role in this white officer and your biracial nephew's run-in? What do you think?
CARTER: I think it's difficult to say. I know -- I know that we as Americans we understand the racial disparities that are present right now, and a lot of the income inequalities that are prevalent also. So, it's difficult to say that it was based on race, but what is known is that my nephew was unarmed and that the calls that were placed were in an effort to help him, and that he was ended up killed. He ended up dead and being shot several times from a close vicinity. And I think we all can agree that this is something that could have been avoided. So I guess as it pertains to race, that will be seen later on. But right now, we just know that this could have been avoided and that we should be allowed our due process rights to have a trial to prove his innocence or guilt.
BURNETT: Turin, I appreciate your taking the time to be with us.
CARTER: Absolutely. Thank you.
BURNETT: Thank you. And as I said, Turin Carter is the uncle of Tony Robinson, the 19-year-old unarmed teen who was shot and killed.
I want to bring in Paul Callan, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor. The facts of the case here as you heard the D.A. laid them out, he was shot seven times at close range. He apparently had been being aggressive on the street to others. There were 911 calls. Do you think that the D.A. did the right thing in not pressing charges or should this have gone to a grand jury in a more due process, going through more due process as his uncle alleges?
PAUL CALLAN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, you know, we elect district attorneys hoping that they bring good judgement to the table as to what kinds of cases should go to the grand jury. And of course, the easiest thing in the world is to say I'm not going to make a decision. I'm going to put it in front of the grand jury, and even for the grand jury to say, you know something, we're not going to make a decision. We're going to kick it on to 12 jurors someday to decide. But of course, you have somebody charged with a very serious crime when that goes on.
Many D.A.s would do exactly what this D.A. did, because when he talked about the evidence, he said there were 911 calls describing the young man who died as acting insane. The autopsy report indicates that he was under the influence of marijuana, of --
BURNETT: Xanax.
CALLAN: -- Xanax.
BURNETT: Yes.
[19:10:33] CALLAN: And possibly other substances as well. We also know from neighbors who had complained that he was acting in a violent way. Even before the officer got there. So he was unarmed, but the officer had a concussion, indicating that he was struck on the head at some point during the encounter between the two men.
BURNETT: Which supports his use of deadly force.
CALLAN: Exactly. If he's being attacked and he sustains a concussion, he might have been in fear of his life, or so the D.A. probably thought.
BURNETT: The D.A. brought race up in the context of himself and how he's biracial and he said the first person of color to be a D.A. in the state of Wisconsin. Also talking about young black men and the troubled relationship that they have with police in this country at the center of what we have seen and the protests and some of the riots. Is race relevant?
CALLAN: I don't think it is in this case. And the reason I say that is because I think we should be talking more about drug abuse and maybe even mental illness as opposed to race in a case like this. If the same officer, even if an African-American officer were responding and he was confronted by a person who seemed to be suffering from severe mental illness, who attacked him, it would be questionable as to whether he would use force or not. So, I'm finding it hard to believe that this is a legitimate race case.
BURNETT: All right. Paul Callan, thank you very much.
CALLAN: Thank you.
BURNETT: As we continue to monitor what's going on in the streets of Madison tonight, where protesters are gathering in the wake of that decision not to charge the police officer.
OUTFRONT next, we have more breaking news. The top investigator in deflate-gate slams Tom Brady saying the evidence against him is clear. This, as Brady's agent vows to fight.
Plus, bombshell charges as the President lied about how Osama bin Laden was killed. Four-star General Stanley McChrystal is my guest OUTFRONT tonight, and another massive earthquake hits Nepal. A chopper filled with American marines on a rescue mission is lost. They have just taken off now at this hour in a desperate search to see if they can find that helicopter and survivors. We are live in Nepal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:16:42] BURNETT: Tonight, the man who led the investigation against Tom Brady is defending the evidence against the star quarterback. He insists that it shows Brady knew that game balls were deliberately deflated. That investigator, Ted Wells, is fighting back against claims that the NFL was trying to implicate or gang up on Brady.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED WELLS, NFL DEFLATEGATE INVESTIGATOR: This was not a sting operation. It was in fact, you know, just the opposite. They gave the Patriots the benefit of the doubt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Brady is vowing to appeal his four-game suspension and his fans seem to be more supportive than ever. All right. Prepare yourselves for this. Sales of Brady gear have spiked 100 percent since the NFL announced his suspension. That is a double.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT with tonight's Money and Power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If there was any doubt as to whether the Patriots would stand by their man following that NFL report alleging he cheated, just take a look at their official Twitter page. The number 12 proudly displayed. But other less flattering images of Tom Brady also making the internet rounds, raising the question, will his image be forever tarnished?
LEIGH STEINBERG, SPORTS AGENT: In an attempt to keep denying, denying, appealing, does this. It puts Tom Brady and cheater next to each other in headlines. It keeps re-enforcing that connection.
CARROLL: Headlines are littered with names of once prominent athletes who fell from grace after accusations of cheating. Lance Armstrong arguably once known as the world's greatest cyclist, stripped of his Tour de France titles after getting caught up in a doping scandal. His public image still in ruins. And while Yankees slugger Alex Rodriguez briefly had a moment of celebration last Thursday, when he hit home run number 661, surpassing Willie Mays' home run record, his moment of glory marred by allegations he took performance enhancing drugs despite years of denials.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: You say you did not do these P.E.D.s that they're accusing you of doing.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: You're correct, Mike.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Okay.
CARROLL: It was the same story from baseball legend and record holder Barry Bonds, accused of lying under oath when questioned about using illegal steroids. So many denials. Brady and his agent called the investigation and the decision to suspend him for four games ridiculous. The investigator standing by his finding.
WELLS: I believe the conclusions have been proven by the preponderance of the evidence standard.
CARROLL: Sports analysts questioning why Brady may have felt the need to cheat at all, even after the deflated balls were re-inflated during the second half, the Patriots still outscored the Colts, ultimately, it may be up to fans to decide how the ending should be written to the quarterback with the story book career.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I really couldn't tell you why, but Tom's case, I think he's going to get through this.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Going to be another athlete to do something to take the attention away. No one is going to remember something like this forever.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: Well, Erin, some question if Brady's endorsement deals will suffer as a result of all this. That remains to be seen. According to Forbes. He took in $7 million last year, but in comparison to other top athletes, he still falls short. Peyton Manning earned $12 million last year. Roger Federer, 52 million, and Tiger Woods, who we all know had his own personal problems off the course, still earned $55 million in endorsements last year. Sometimes all is forgiven, not forgotten, but at least sometimes forgiven in some ways -- Erin.
BURNETT: Wow! Those numbers are mammoth. And you have to wonder if Tom Brady is asking his agent why he wasn't getting more. All right. Thank you very much, Jason Carroll.
OUTFRONT now, sports agent Drew Rosenhaus. He represents three Patriots players including one of Brady's top receivers Rob Gronkowski. So, obviously Drew as I pointed out the other day, the story does affect you personally. Also with me, the former linebacker for the San Diego Chargers, Shawne Merriman.
Drew, let me start with you. You heard Ted Wells, the independent investigator. His words were, quote, "I believe from the bottom of my heart," and he went on to say that "the text messages implicate Tom Brady." Your reaction?
DREW ROSENHAUS, SPORTS AGENT: Well, it's not the evidence that I would like to see in order to suspend a player four games. I think you've got to catch someone red handed, and not try to piece things together to take away four games and what would be millions of dollars. To damage this man's reputation to the extent that they have, who has had a great career, I don't believe the punishment fit the crime. And I don't think there's enough evidence to penalize him this severely.
[19:21:32] BURNETT: So, Drew, one of the things Ted Wells pointed at though was he said, look, I asked Tom Brady to go ahead, go through his own text messages and pick the ones he would give me and print them out. And Tom Brady would not do that. I didn't ask for his phone, I asked him to vet his own text messages and print them out. Brady wouldn't even cooperate with that. That certainly gives a bad taste, doesn't it?
ROSENHAUS: Yes, but it doesn't make him guilty, either. In America, someone has to be guilty. Not turning over your phone doesn't make you guilty. And this is a very serious penalty. Four games is unbelievable. And even more stunning to me, even more stunning than the Brady punishment, is what they did to the Patriots. Wells said that Kraft and Belichick, the owner and coach, should be exonerated here. Yet, they lost a first round pick, a fourth round pick, and an unprecedented $1 million fine. Are you kidding me? The NFL, in my estimation, was on a mission to hammer Brady and the Patriots because of some previous mistakes that they've made where they were criticized for being too lenient, like Ray Rice, for example.
BURNETT: And there are those who have said this is to make up for Ray Rice. Shawne, what do you say?
SHAWNE MERRIMAN, FORMER SAN DIEGO CHARGERS LINEBACKER: I think the punishment was justified. You know, any time you create an unfair advantage to go out and win a football game, you deserve to be punished. Not just the player, but, you know, and Drew, you -- to this. You win as a team, you lose as a team. And that's why they're getting punished as a team. This is not the first time this has happened. It's been multiple things to come out of the organization and they got punished courtly, I'm sure that he'll go out and probably appeal the suspension, maybe get two games, but he cannot go unpunished because the NFL had no choice.
BURNETT: So, you're saying, okay -- go ahead, Drew.
ROSENHAUS: I'm fine with punishing him. I'm just not comfortable with the degree of it.
BURNETT: Hold on, hold on. One second though. Let me just interrupt you. Because you're telling me that you don't have evidence he did anything wrong. But now you're saying it's okay that he got punished.
(CROSSTALK)
ROSENHAUS: I think there is enough conduct there to fine a guy, or at the most, maybe one game. But four games to me, a first round pick, a fourth round pick, and $1 million fine, that's way excessive.
BURNETT: Shawne.
ROSENHAUS: If you don't want to penalize him for not cooperating, that's fine. For not handling over the fine but don't suspend the guy multiple games. That to me devastating.
MERRIMAN: Drew, if he came out right after it was told to the public and said, you know what? I like the balls this way, I like the balls -- air taken out. Yes, he would have gotten a fine of $250,000, maybe $500,000, then it's water under the bridge. He didn't do that. He pretended that he knew nothing about any allegation that was brought against him, and that's what he deserves. Myself, I was punished for something I did while I was playing. I created an unfair advantage, and I got suspended accordingly. He got suspended accordingly, and the organization got punished accordingly. So, I think all is fair.
ROSENHAUS: Well, we're not going to agree on that, Shawne, because I don't believe on punishing a player to that extent because he doesn't cooperate or because he decided not to admit to something that we don't know to be a fact. We don't know for sure that Tom Brady deflated footballs or got these guys to do it. It looks that way, but we don't know it for sure. And I have a problem with that.
BURNETT: So one thing that you're bringing up, as you're talking about an unfair advantage. You just heard Jason Carroll, right, give examples of other people who used steroids. You were suspended for steroid use, right? And you were suspended for four games, which you say was fair. Is this the same? I mean, obviously, deflating footballs is something you would do to get an advantage, just like you would take steroids. So, in that sense, it would seem similar. But there's some people New York Giants Punter today Steve Weatherford said, Tom Brady suspended four games, that's ridiculous. They're comparing it to steroid use, preposterous. What do you say?
MERRIMAN: Well, they're comparing it to steroid use because it's four games. I look at it as creating an unfair advantage to win a football game. And like I said before, he brought this upon himself. This easily could have won away if he said, hey, this is how I like to throw a football. This is what I've told them to do. I have never seen an equipment guy go out and threw a football game say, you know, what, there is too much air in here, I will take some out. That doesn't happen. He obviously told him, he had knowledge of it and he's getting a punishment. If there was no punishment being made, there would be an outrage of the players because they know that they would have already been punished for the same type of thing. So, they had to make a standard across the NFL. Now look, guys, in the NFL, they can't come and say, you know what? They can't punish me. Punishment is too harsh. If you punish Tom Brady, you're making a standard for all NFL athletes. And I think that's the legal --
ROSENHAUS: Shawne, come on. Even you would admit.
BURNETT: Well, you're making a standard. Okay, final word quickly, Drew.
[19:26:20] ROSENHAUS: Yes. Even Shawne would admit, it is steep to take away four games, a $1 million, a first round pick and a fourth round pick, based on what you're doing, which is connecting dots, because he didn't fully cooperate. I don't think that's fair. He's going to have a successful appeal. This thing is going to be reduced. And if I'm the Patriots, I appeal this thing, too. I take the NFL to court. It's nonsense that they're losing a first round pick.
BURNETT: All right. I appreciate both of you taking the time. And of course, we're awaiting that formal appeal from Tom Brady and the Patriots. So, we'll see if that comes in the next 24 hours.
OUTFRONT next, new charges tonight at the killing of Osama bin Laden was more of an execution than a daring raid. My guest weighing in, the Four-star General Stanley McChrystal.
And United States marines on a mission to rescue victims in Nepal. Now they are missing. There's an emergency search underway. It has just gotten light in Nepal, so they're taking off in a desperate hope that those marines are still alive. We are going to be live in Nepal tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:16] BURNETT: OUTFRONT tonight: sources calling into question new details from a report that alleges President Obama lied about the Osama bin Laden raid.
In a highly controversial article, journalist Seymour Hersh wrote that Pakistan knew for years where bin Laden was and didn't tell the United States. Hersh says when the U.S. finally found out bin Laden's whereabouts, President Obama colluded with Pakistan, and SEAL Team 6 was basically escorted into the compound by Pakistani intelligence, meaning no resistance whatsoever, killing an unarmed, extremely sick, aging man.
Jim Sciutto is OUTFRONT.
And, Jim, you have been pressing your sources on new details to find out whether this White House and the president are telling the truth. Hersh alleges the president's story of the courier that led Americans to bin Laden was untrue. He says that didn't happen. You have learned more about this tonight.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'll tell you, the answer is unanimous. I have spoken to two U.S. intelligence officials who say there was no single walk-in that led the U.S. to this Abbottabad compound where bin Laden was hiding. This is public comments from instance from Mike Morell, the former deputy director of the CIA.
I am told, however, by a U.S. intelligence official, that there were valuable intelligence sources inside Pakistan, within Pakistan, no silver bullet, they say, but valuable intelligence sources. So, it is possible in the overall intelligence picture that a walk-in or others contributed to that picture, but they're holding to the storyline that it was painstaking intelligence work following this courier, that was the key piece of evidence that led them to bin Laden.
BURNETT: So, one way, Jim, to confirm who is telling the truth, right, is to see if the United States paid any of its sources, because as -- you know, some of the viewers may remember, there was a reward of $25 million for any information that led to the whereabouts of bin Laden.
So, if the U.S. actually paid any of that out, which we all know they don't like to do, right? You really have to do something for them to pay, that would mean that they did get valuable information. So, in your reporting, have you found any evidence that the United States has paid anybody? SCIUTTO: This is what I have been told, that yes, the U.S. may
have paid locals in Pakistan for help in this, for instance, the people that were employed to track the SUV believed to be used by this courier, which then helped lead them to bin Laden. If you saw "Zero Dark Thirty", that was in that movie. That would have been small payments, not the $25 million bounty that was on his head. We are told here the bounty was not paid. We're told not in this case.
BURNETT: That would mean there wasn't one single person, right, who, you know, was deserving of getting it.
SCIUTTO: Exactly.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks so much to you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
BURNETT: OUTFRONT tonight, General Stanley McChrystal, four-star general and former commander of all-American and coalition forces in Afghanistan. He's also the man credited with transforming U.S. Special Forces into the elite fighting force they are today, and he's the author of the new book "Team of Teams". And he's with me tonight.
General, Seymour Hersh alleges the president is lying about the entire bin Laden operation, pretty much from soup to nuts. You know the president, and you know the good and bad. You and he obviously had a tough ending there.
Did he lie?
GEN. STANLEY MCCHRYSTAL (RET), FORMER COMMANDER OF U.S. AND ISAF FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN: I find Mr. Hersh's article impossible to believe. But if he has proof, let him bring it out.
I think the real big issue is we have someone who comes out with a report without any substantiation and we let it dominate news for days on end. I think that's a danger because I don't think something like this should get this kind of focus.
BURNETT: Now, there is one thing in here, though, that has -- connects with things others have said. Leon Panetta, you, things you have said in the past. There's one core part of the report. And that is the allegation -- and he is citing unnamed sources -- but the allegation the Pakistani government knew from the beginning, i.e., for up to four years, that Osama bin Laden was in their country.
[19:35:12] And he goes so far to say they were actually effectively his captors, that they were harboring him.
You said back in 2009, you thought bin Laden was in Pakistan. When you hear that core part of this, does it make sense to you that the Pakistani government knew?
MCCHRYSTAL: Well, that's a great question. We all thought that Osama bin Laden was inside Pakistan. The Pakistanis, I think, came to that conclusion. We could never, ever find evidence, and we looked really hard,
before the raid and after, to find direct evidence of Pakistani complicity. There was kind of an assumption that somebody had to know, and I certainly wouldn't doubt that. But I don't think it was the senior parts of the Pakistani government. Never seen anything to convince me that's true.
BURNETT: So, what you're saying it's possible some people did know in the Pakistani government, but you don't think it went to the top?
MCCHRYSTAL: I think that's very possible, yes.
BURNETT: OK, all right. That was a key thing he said. Like I said, it fits with what you and Leon Panetta, then the head of the CIA, said before. Likely presidential candidate on the Republican side, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie today, talked to CNN about President Obama and his handling specifically of ISIS.
And here's what Governor Christie said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Our adversaries no longer fear us and our allies don't feel like they can trust us any longer. I mean, that's an awful position for America to be in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Christie went on to say America's allies in the Middle East, in his words, cannot count on America being there. Is that true?
MCCHRYSTAL: Well, I think it's very important that our allies believe that we are legitimate partner and a credible partner. I think there's reason over the last decade or more for them to at least have doubts.
If you look at the activities in the Saudi leadership recently, the coalition that went into Yemen, some of the activities between countries in the region, some of which is good. They're coming together in ways that they had not before. But it's also may signal a belief that America is less willing to be a leader in the region. And I think we still have to have that role.
BURNETT: And has that changed? You talk about the past decade. That would be mostly President Obama but a little bit of President Bush. But has it gotten worse under President Obama as many allege?
MCCHRYSTAL: Well, I think it's gotten worse with the times. I'm not sure it's a single leader that's caused it. I think it clearly is at a point where we need to address it because if our allies aren't comfortable that we are consistent and we are there, then we're going to have trouble pulling together the coalitions that are critical for the future. BURNETT: So, your book is about creating successful teams, how
to make the U.S. government in a sense work to stop these sort of attacks. Obviously, it failed at 9/11, failed to connect the dots in the Boston bombing, also failed, of course, last week in the planned attack against an art exhibit to do with the Prophet Mohammed in Texas.
What does the U.S. government need to do right now to get it right?
MCCHRYSTAL: Yes, I think the first thing is we need to understand the problem, because we focus on teams, and people throw out the word "team" and you got a small team and it works well. But when you build separate teams and different organizations, different parts of the government or even inside one part of the government, they become insular and cohesive and they don't communicate well. They develop different cultures.
I think the problem we found that showed itself on 9/11 and then I worked through for years after that was trying to bring the parts together, and it's pretty difficult. I used to describe it as magnets in opposition. You actually have to hold the pieces together to make them communicate and actually operate well. But that's got to become a key focus because developing a team of teams is critical in today's environment. You can't do it with just good people or just good small teams.
BURNETT: All right. General McChrystal, thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
MCCHRYSTAL: Thanks, Erin.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next: as a second deadly earthquake rocks Nepal, six American Marines on a rescue mission there are missing. Their helicopter is lost. At this hour, other helicopters are taking off trying to desperately look for them. We're going to go live to Nepal for the status of the search.
And 171 days after a police officer shot and killed a 12-year-old Tamir, in just seconds, there are still no word from investigators on whether or not that officer will be charged. Our question, will anyone be held responsible?
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[19:43:00] BURNETT: Breaking news, a U.S. military helicopter has gone missing in Nepal. An emergency search is now under way for the six marines and two locals who were carrying out earthquake disaster relief just outside of the capital of Kathmandu. The disappearance comes just hours after Nepal was hit with another massive earthquake that struck near the border with China.
The sheer force of the shaking brought down entire buildings. Sixty-eight people are confirmed dead in the latest tragedy on top of the more than 8,000 who were killed after the earthquake just weeks ago. Will Ripley is OUTFRONT live in Kathmandu.
And, Will, what are officials saying tonight about that missing helicopter? I know it had been dark. They had to stop hunting for it and they're now back up in the air looking again.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the sun just now rising. So, we're expecting the aerial search to be under way in force today. We also know that overnight, soldiers hiking to the second location, the location where this marine helicopter was headed before it lost contact. The promising signs are that they have seen no smoke, no flames, no obvious signs of a crash, at least in the area they have been able to search.
But, of course, what's discouraging is that there's also no radio contact from the helicopter. It could well be because of the rugged terrain. That is the hope, that everybody onboard is OK and that they will be found in the coming hours -- Erin.
BURNETT: Hoping for a miracle, and as you point out, though, given the terrain, it is possible that they are alive. I know where you are right now, though, Will. It is -- the ground is still shaking. You had that massive earthquake today. What are you feeling, what are you witnessing?
RIPLEY: It's incredible, Erin. You really get a sense of the panic people are feeling here. Since we arrived here in Kathmandu, we experienced two aftershocks, one of them pretty violent. Violent enough to jolt buildings, dogs in the neighborhood started howling and people ran outside of their homes.
A lot of people slept in the streets last night. They were staying in their cars. But the real terror for the folks living here was that 7.3 earlier yesterday.
[19:45:00] This was a five-story building that was weakened by the initial earthquake on April 25th, Erin. But as you see, it fell to the ground. There's a building right next to us with similar damage that looks quite precarious.
If there was another major aftershock, there are a lot of buildings in the city that could also go down, and monsoon season is fast approaching. Heavy rains, that's only going to complicate things for all the families that are trying to sleep outside and also increase the danger for landslides as well.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. I know you're trying to stay safe there, too, as are so many trying to cover the story in Nepal.
OUTFRONT next: six months after Tamir Rice was shot and killed while playing with a toy gun in a park, Cleveland police hold a press conference. But they had absolutely no answer on whether or not an officer will be charged. We have a special report from the scene, next.
And Jeanne Moos with this amazing video. This is not a movie trailer. This is not a stunt. This is for real.
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BURNETT: Outrage tonight over the death of Tamir Rice. Tamir was a 12-year-old boy. He was shot and killed by a police officer and still no one has been held accountable for his death. He died about six months ago.
[19:50:01] Today, everyone thought there might be a resolution. The Cleveland sheriff faced reporters, but they refused to provide any new details about the investigating -- investigation. Police say Rice was pointing a pellet gun at people before an officer pulled up and shot him. As you can see -- I don't know if you remember the video, the officer steps out and shoots him literally within a few seconds, less than two seconds to be exact.
It has now taken, though, more than 170 days for police to determine if a crime has been committed, and still, they haven't done anything. Why not?
Martin Savidge is OUTFRONT.
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MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The snow on the ground that November day Tamir Rice was shot and killed by Cleveland police has long since melted. Nearly half a year later, the investigation into the police actions that day grinds on.
SHERIFF CLIFFORD PINKNEY, CUYAHOGA COUNTY: We have been tirelessly working on this investigation.
SAVIDGE: Today, the lead investigator offered a much anticipated update.
PINKNEY: While a few more witnesses need to be interviewed and more forensic evidence needs to be collected, a majority of our work is complete.
SAVIDGE: But the sheriff gave no indication whether the investigation would be done and handed over to the prosecutor's office, and he left without answering a single question.
The update did little to diffuse the rise of anger by Rice's family and supporters.
LATONYA SONBSEY, TAMIR RICE'S COUSIN: Everything is right there on the tape. If I want transparency, be honest with us. That's all it ends. Twelve-year-old kid, six months later, we're still at a standstill. We're still at a standstill. We have no answers.
SAVIDGE: But authorities say there is much more to the case than just the video, which shows Rice playing with a very looking toy gun that prompted this 911 call.
CALLER: The guy keeps pulling it in and out. It's probably fake, but you know what, he's scaring the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of people.
SAVIDGE: The responding officers were never told of the caller's suspicion the gun was fake, but what has upset me is not that the police showed with force, but how quickly Officer Timothy Loehmann shot Rice, in just two seconds.
Rice's mother noted the discrepancy between how long it took for the shooting and how long it is taking for answers.
SAMARIA RICE, MOTHER OF TAMIR RICE: In less than a second, my son is gone and I want to know how long I've got to wait for justice.
SAVIDGE: The family believes Loehmann and his partner, Officer Frank Garmback, should be critically charged. Loehmann left his previous police job in a Cleveland suburb after complaints he was, quote, "emotionally immature", unquote. And he once showed, quote, "dangerous loss of composure during live range training", unquote.
Attorneys representing both officers told CNN in part, "It is in the highest priority that this investigation protects the due process rights of all party's involved."
The Rice family has already filed suit against the city but their attorney says the family also wants to see the police department held accountable.
WALTER MADISON, RICE FAMILY ATTORNEY: Each day this family thinks nonstop about their child and whether or not they will receive justice.
SAVIDGE: More than money, the Rice family wants to know why and they think that answer has taken way too long.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And, Martin, with all of this going on and this time passing with no decision, I know that I've heard Tamir Rice's mother was actually living in a homeless shelter. What's your reporting?
SAVIDGE: Yes, that's absolutely true.
I should point out, though, not for the immediate reasons you might think. You see, she was living in a house directly across the street from where the park was, where her son was killed and she couldn't go on doing that, according to the family attorney. She doesn't have a lot of money. So, the only option was leave that house and go to a homeless shelter, which is what she did for several months.
But finally thanks to the good graces and money from other people, she was able to find a small place where she is living now. Then, we just learned that on top of that, she wasn't able to bury her son. That, too, is the issue of money, but also wanting to have the body available for any follow-up of any forensics. Finally, last week, she gave in and she had her son's body cremated.
BURNETT: That's just tragic.
All right. Thank you very much, Martin Savidge.
At the very least, that family deserves answers, a decision, one way or another.
OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos with video you have to see to believe.
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[19:58:01] BURNETT: Two daredevils soar above Dubai with nothing on their packs but a jet back, no joke. Innovative or just truly insane?
Here is Jeanne Moos.
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JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's like leaving on a jet plane -- without the plane part.
With jet wings on their backs, two fliers got dropped off over Dubai. Being strapped to a four-engine jet wing is enough, but flying in formation is unheard of. Climbing and diving at a top speed of 190 miles per hour, crisscrossing each other.
The undisputed leader is 56-year-old Yves Rossy, also known as "Jetman". And now, he's got a protege, "Jetman Junior", 30 year-old Vince Reffet.
VINCE REFFET, JETMAN JUNIOR: Flying like a fighter jet, you know? But not inside of the cockpit. I'm not jetting it with my body. (INAUDIBLE)
MOOS: So, how do they steer? With this. Up down, left, right.
The flier holds the throttle, fully loaded with kerosene, the jet wing weighs 121 pounds but you don't feel the weight while flying. Vince said his first flight was emotional.
REFFET: I came back down and I cried a bit.
MOOS: Now, he's doing blitz with his partner around the tourist building in the world.
How do they get permission? The project is funding by Dubai, which is getting say name for promoting extreme sports.
But the jet wing can't yet do what the jet rocketeer did.
The racketeer could take off from the ground and that's something the jetmen are working on.
The kerosene runs out after a 10-minute flight. They parachute to earth. The wing has its own parachute in case the flyer has to disconnect, as Yves once did over the Strait of Gibraltar. And look at this.
REFFET: It looks like I'm flying on (INAUDIBLE)
MOOS: He's a jet pack potato.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
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BURNETT: You couldn't pay me.
Thanks for joining us. "AC360" starts now.
