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Amtrak Derailment; Chris Christie Talks Iraq War. Aired 9:30- 10a ET

Aired May 13, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:56] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I am Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Right now a big chunk of the nation's biggest rail corridor is shut down after last night's horrific derailment of an Amtrak train and all seven of its cars. Passengers describe a violent, bone-jarring impact and the grim numbers back that up. One hundred and forty-nine people injured. That's more than half of all those aboard that train. At least six people now confirmed dead. And among the dead confirmed just minutes ago, a midshipman from the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland.

Several agencies are now searching for the cause of this derailment. Dozens of investigators are now canvassing the scene. And there are family members out there still searching for their loved ones. In fact, we just got word from the family of Rachel Jacobs. And I want you to put her picture on the screen right now. Her family is asking for our help and for your help. Rachel remains missing this morning. They believe she was onboard that train. If you know where Rachel is, if you've seen Rachel, if you were on board that train and you saw her, please get in contact with CNN.

Actually, producers, do you know who to get in contact with for help for Rachel's family? OK, we're going to work on that. But if you see Rachel Jacobs, we're going to put a number that you can call up on the screen shortly so you can help the Jacobs' family. OK, here's the hotline number you can call, 1-800-523-9101. You can call Amtrak or contact CNN if you know anything about Rachel Jacobs.

All right, let's go out to the scene now. CNN's Chris Cuomo is there.

Good morning, Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": Good morning, Carol.

This is still a very active investigation that's going on. In fact, it's in its early stages because the urgency has not passed. We have not heard from authorities that all 243 people are accounted for yet. We do know at last count six people have lost their lives, over 140 were sent to the hospital. Some are still there. But the big headline, Carol, is that not everyone has been accounted for. And that's going to slow the investigation because right now they're still bringing in heavy equipment behind us to move some of those cars and see what is underneath them and see what is still among a lot of the twisted wreckage here. Many of the people working the scene overnight, (INAUDIBLE) some of them said to us that they have never seen anything like this, Carol, and that's why it's going to take time and the investigation -- the information is going to be slow.

COSTELLO: I would assume the engineer and the conductor survived the crash. I would assume that investigators are talking with them.

CUOMO: We are told that they are able to interview the crew. They also have a black box. Not unlike what we hear about in planes that will be able to tell them about speed. Speed is an obvious consideration. But there's some things cutting against that. While these trains in the northeast corridor, which is this area of rail, can go over 100 miles an hour. Not in areas like this. This is residential and commercial. This is not far from coming out of the Philadelphia station. So this train shouldn't have been at maximum speed, and that's one of their considerations.

Another one, Carol, is that this stretch of rail, which is now in ribbons, was the site of a crash in the 1940s that killed 79 people. So there's going to be a little bit of a comparison to what happened there and what they size up with this wreckage as well.

COSTELLO: All right, Chris Cuomo, many thanks to you. I appreciate it.

Here to talk more about the investigation, former NTSB managing director Peter Goelz. I'm also joined by forensic audio expert Paul Ginsberg. He's worked with various agencies, including the CIA, FBI and the Department of Homeland Security.

Welcome to both of you.

PETER GOELZ, FMR. NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Good morning.

PAUL GINSBERG, FORENSIC AUDIO EXPERT: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

Peter, we have pictures of the crash site that I'd like you to take a look at. You can see from these pictures that the first car remained upright. Now, this is the car where the engineer and the conductor drive the train, so to speak. They survived. The second car is completely incinerated. It's wheels, upside down. The third car is on its side, as is the third and the fourth. The fifth, sixth and seven car remained upright but derailed. Can you determine anything at all about what happened from these pictures?

[09:35:07] GOELZ: Well, Carol, that's a tantalizing piece of evidence. I mean what it indicates is that the derailment likely occurred at the head of the train. That the engine itself might have been the first car derailing. So you would -- you would look very carefully at the under carriage of the engine in the second car to see if there were any anomalies with the wheels or the axles. But you would focus, zero in on the track at that specific point to see whether there is a, you know, a break in the track, whether it was crossing a switching area, that sort of thing. Whether there was something on the track, perhaps. But it does point you towards the front of the train as where the events started.

COSTELLO: So, Peter, the second car looks charred. It is absolutely gone. There's nothing left.

GOELZ: Yes.

COSTELLO: It doesn't even resemble a train car. What do you suppose happened to that car?

GOELZ: Well, you can't tell. There -- you know, there obviously was some sort of a fire. But it raises a broader point, Carol, which is the survivability of the passengers inside these cars. These are 30 to 40-year-old railcars, and there has been tremendous advances in the design of railcars since then. The Volpe Center in Massachusetts has really laid out some very innovative engineering steps that make railcars safer and more survivable for the passengers in a wreck. These cars didn't incorporate that. The NTSB is going to look very carefully at the injuries and how railcars can be designed so that people have a higher chance of surviving without a fatality or serious injury.

COSTELLO: And, Paul, I assume when that train crashed, the power went out in all of those cars. It's completely dark. And, of course, this accident happened at nighttime. How do you suppose the passengers were able to get out?

GINSBERG: Well, that's a -- that's a good question. It is a good thing that the locomotive survived because that's where the black box -- the so-called black box is that will answer a lot of the questions that we have with respect to this event. That black box not only records date, time, GPS location, speed and so on, but it also indicates the different control settings, the throttle, the brakes, whether the horn was sounding. In other words, was the engineer aware of what was going on and had he done anything that would help or hurt in the situation.

COSTELLO: And you said that the black box, so to speak, is located in the first car of the train where the engineer drives the train, so that's a good thing. So that probably survived.

GINSBERG: (INAUDIBLE) --

COSTELLO: Peter -- go ahead.

GINSBERG: Carol, I just wanted to add that there is front-looking video, as well as external audio, but there is no audio or video from the cab of the train that's recorded. So we don't know what happened inside the cab, but we do know what was on the tracks, if anything, and the conditions.

COSTELLO: Gotcha.

I wanted to show Peter one more picture, one more image that we have. This is a picture taken from the back of one of the train cars and it shows that curve. The curve is called Frankfort Junction, right? It's a sharp curve, so hopefully we can see that in just a minute. But if you were looking at that right now, all of the evidence right now points that the train was traveling too fast because the passengers said they heard squealing as if the brakes were being shoved on and then there's that sharp curve, Peter. So initially what does that tell you?

GOELZ: Well, you don't know. It was a 50-mile-an-hour limit on the curve, which is not particularly slow. The event recorder will give us the precise speed that the engineer was operating at, whether it enters the curve. It's certainly going to be something that's looked at very carefully at the beginning.

And we consider speed because of the tragic accident just outside of New York City not too long ago on Metro North where the engineer was either dozing or distracted, where he entered a 30-mile-an-hour curve at about three time -- at about two and a half times the speed. So they certainly will look at that. But it's too -- too early to tell.

COSTELLO: Gotcha. Peter Goelz, Paul Ginsberg, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

[09:39:56] Still to come in the NEWSROOM, he has not announced he's running, but, boy, he's taking some digs. Chris Christie blasts Jeb Bush. What he exclusively told CNN, next.

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COSTELLO: Chris Christie jabbing at Jeb Bush during an interview with Jake Tapper. New Jersey's governor skirted around questions concerning his possible presidential candidacy, but when it came time to talk about the Iraq War, he made sure his answer was very clear.

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JAKE TAPPER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "THE LEAD": Knowing then what we know now, no WMD in Iraq, et cetera, was that the right decision to go to war?

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: No, it wasn't. Now, I think President Bush made the best decision he could at the time given that his intelligence community was telling him that there was WMD and there were the threats right there in Iraq. But I don't think you can honestly say that if we knew then that there was no WMD, that the country should have gone to war. So my answer would be no.

But I think, you know, what we've got to avoid is continuing to go backwards in this country. We need a forward-looking foreign policy that talks about how to reassert American authority and influence around the world. But I want to directly answer your question, because that's what I do. If we knew then what we know now and I were the president of the United States, I wouldn't have gone to war. But, you know, we don't get to replay history.

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COSTELLO: Christie's response directly slamming this recent comment Jeb Bush made on Fox News in an interview with Megyn Kelly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS: Knowing what we know now, would you have authorized the invasion?

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would have. And so -- so would have Hillary Clinton, just to remind everybody, and so would have almost everybody that was confronted with the intelligence they got.

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COSTELLO: Facing harsh criticism, Bush back tracked the comment saying he simply misinterpreted the Kelly's question. Nia-Malika Henderson is in Washington with more on this.

[09:45:02] Nia-Malika Henderson is in Washington with more on this. Good morning.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So let's first talk about Chris Christie and his chances for a presidential bid, is he a viable candidate, do you think?

HENDERSON: Well, he certainly thinks he's a viable candidate even though he had his wife came out and say, oh, isn't it disappointing that some of his enthusiasm has drained away from his possible candidacy.

You know, I talked to folks in three early states -- Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina. And South Carolina is sort of a no-go there. In Iowa, he's got candidates there, or potential candidates, who are much more attractive. And in New Hampshire, the folks I talked to there, in the state where he is betting -- it's essentially New Hampshire or bust for Chris Christie -- they say he said he had a head of steam at some point but he has in some ways frittered it away. And obviously now on the ground there over the last couple of days he is trying to regain that and regain some of the spotlight and some of the momentum.

COSTELLO: So if he is able to regain the momentum, of course, he is an established Republican, which is of course why he's attacking Jeb Bush. So he's attacking Jeb Bush on an issue that both conservatives and liberals raised eyebrows at, and that was Jeb Bush's seeming position on the Iraq War.

HENDERSON: That's right. And you heard, of course, Jeb Bush walk that back. You had his aides out there saying that he essentially misinterpreted that question. This is going to be sticky thing for Jeb Bush to try to do, because he always is going to have the George W. Bush, both of the Bushes, that legacy hanging over his head. So you got Chris Christie there trying to make some room there, trying to make a case for his own candidacy by joining in that fray and jumping on Jeb Bush who, again, had to walk that comment back.

COSTELLO: Well, I found it interesting that he appeared on the Sean Hannity radio show to do that, because he knew that what he'd said was a serious gaffe. HENDERSON: That's right. That's right. He had to go on and Hannity

-- and I don't know if we have it here to play the sound - OK, we don't have the sound. But, yes. So he had to do that. You heard real conservatives say, listen, this is something that he made a gaffe on. You heard -- in the conservative blogosphere, on conservative radio. And so that's very much the audience he's got to play to, so I think this is going to be again and again a constant recurring theme for Jeb Bush.

This happened again last week, right, when he talked about his foreign policy, in terms of Israel, and he said George Bush was the person that he went to for advice. And so that's what he's going to have to keep having to do.

But I think ultimately this is about Chris Christie. He's in a weakened position. He's got to take on Jeb Bush, who is gobbling up so much of the air time, so much of the donors' interest and money, that Chris Christie has really got to fight his way to figure out how to make his best case, not only to potential voters but also these donors.

COSTELLO: All right, Nia-Malika Henderson, thanks for your insight. I appreciate it as always.

And a reminder to you, my viewers, we are expecting a news conference to happen in Philadelphia at the top of the hour now. Initially it was scheduled for 11:00 a.m. Eastern, but it will take place now at 10:00 a.m. Eastern. Of course this news conference will be about that terrible train derailment, the Amtrak train derailment. We'are expecting the mayor of Philadelphia, Michael Nutter, to have a few comments about what could have happened here and what the latest ison the investigation. I'll be right back.

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COSTELLO: Again, just so you know, we're expecting a live news conference at the top of the hour. The Philadelphia mayor, Michael Nutter, is expected to give us a briefing on this Amtrak derailment. Of course when Mayor Nutter takes to the podium, we'll take you there live.

The House Appropriations Committee, by the way, is meeting this morning on a transportation bill focusing on funding for Amtrak. A subcommittee has already approved a version of that bill that would pave the way for millions of dollars in budget cuts to Amtrak. Right now, funding for Amtrak is $1.4 billion a year. The House Appropriations Committee wants to slash it to $1.13 billion.

So let's talk about that with Congressman Ryan Costello,. The Pennsylvania Republican is on the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. Welcome, sir.

REP. RYAN COSTELLO (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Carol, thanks for having me on.

COSTELLO: I suppose we should say that there's no relation. But I admire your last name Costello.

RYAN COSTELLO: And I admire yours. And I wish we were able to chat in more lighthearted ways, but this is a tragedy and my heart goes out to all involved as I'm sure yours does and the entire CNN community, as well as many of my constituents who used the Amtrak corridor every day. In fact, I came down to Washington, D.C. ,from Wilmington yesterday on the Amtrak line and I intend on going back home tonight on the Amtrak line. So this hits very close to home for myself and a lot of folks in southeastern Pennsylvania.

COSTELLO: I don't know if many in the nation are aware of this, but derailments are not unknown to Amtrak. This is according to "The Washington Post", 2012, there were two derailments. 2013, there were three derailments. 2014, there were six derailments. And this year, 2015, nine derailments so far. What's going on?

RYAN COSTELLO: Well, the short answer is we're going to find out in the weeks to come what specifically happened here.

I'd like to add a couple more statistics to what you just outlined. There are 2,000 rides per day on the Amtrak corridor, the northeast corridor. Two percent of the nation's land mass is in the northeast corridor yet 18 percent of our population and 20 percent of our GDP relates back to the northeast corridor. So investing in the northeast corridor, making sure that it's safe, is critical.

You put up some statistics at the beginning of the segment about some who seek to reduce the appropriations for Amtrak. I'm not in that camp; I can tell you that right now. And if that bill shows a reduction when it hits the floor, myself and others, I think you're going to see amendments to make sure that there is stable funding on the northeast corridor.

If we're not investing in our safety for the northeast corridor, we're not doing what we should be doing down here. People need to have confidence, we need to have confidence that it's a safe route.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. But I think that -- and this didn't just happen this year, right?

[09:55:05] For a long time, there were some Republicans on Capitol Hill who said they want to privatize Amtrak and the government should no longer be involved in subsidizing the railroad. What do you think about that?

RYAN COSTELLO: Well, I am a Republican. I disagree with the notion that we should privatize it. I would also say that if you look at the northeast corridor, in fact, we just passed a bill a month ago, it's now headed to the Senate, which would keep the profits in the northeast corridor in the northeast corridor, to make sure -- there is a capital improvements backlog for projects in the northeast corridor. And if you look at some statistics we just spoke about, clearly there's a need to improve safety along the northeast corridor.

There's a lot of projects. That is -- that may not even be related to what happened. We don't know. So we want to make sure the NTSB, the FRA, DOT, everyone else investigating this has the time and resources to find out what went wrong. But even separate and apart from that, we need to continue to invest in our passenger rail system across the country but particularly in the northeast. It's a critical piece of the economy in the northeast part of our country.

COSTELLO: Congressman Ryan Costello, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.

RYAN COSTELLO: Thank you.

COSTELLO: All right, there are still some passengers missing from that terrible derailment near Philadelphia. One of them is Rachel Jacobs. Her family asked to put up her picture because they need some information about what happened to Rachel.

On the phone right now is a friend and colleague of hers, Karl Okamoto. Good morning, Karl.

VOICE OF KARL OKAMOTO, FRIEND & COLLEAGUE OF RACHEL JACOBS: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Tell us what the family is asking.

OKAMOTO: Just for information. I think they're frustrated that in this situation that there's someone that we can't find.

COSTELLO: Has Amtrak helped?

OKAMOTO: No.

COSTELLO: When the family calls, what does Amtrak tell them?

OKAMOTO: One, it's difficult to get through and then, two, they just don't have her on the list. I think the difficulty arrives from the fact she was traveling on a so-called pin trip ticket where you don't -- that does not require you to have a reservation. You just get on the train. So she got on the train without having any record of her being on, intending to get on the train, and you would not be on record until they scanned your ticket. And that probably hadn't happened yet.

COSTELLO: Right, you can get on the train and then pay on board. You don't have to have -- sometimes you don't have to have a ticket to get onboard a train, oddly enough.

So where was Rachel headed?

OKAMOTO: Home. She lives in Manhattan.

COSTELL: And you're absolutely sure she got on board that train? She called the family, et cetera, et cetera?

OKAMOTO: That's the best indication. She left a meeting with that intent, and she had texted her husband saying she was about to board the train. So everything we know leads us to believe she got on the train. COSTELLO: You don't know what car she was in or anything like that?

OKAMOTO: We don't.

COSTELLO: What are you asking people to do if they recognize Rachel?

OKAMOTO: Yes, her picture is on the television. And what we would love is they contact us by sending e-mail to my e-mail, karl@apprennet.com

COSTELLO: Can you repeat that and spell the last name?

OKAMOTO: Of course, it's K-A-R-L and then apprennet is A-P-P-R-E-N-N- E-T.com

COSTELLO: All right. Thank you so much, Karl. I hope we're able to help. I certainly hope so. The best to you and thank you for joining me this morning.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

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