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Philadelphia Train Crash. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 13, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we continue on, top of the hour, breaking news here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Any minute now -- we heard from the mayor of Philadelphia with his news conference. We're also watching for another newser at Temple University Hospital. That's where those two wonderful young women worked, were helping save lives last night.

And it's where survivors are still being treated after that deadly train derailment in Philadelphia. A source close to this investigation here tells CNN that this particular train, Amtrak train 188, is believed to have been going more than 100 miles an hour around this dangerous bend there on the yellow on your screen when it skidded off the tracks.

So, for just perspective, that is obviously twice, as you can see, the 50-mile-an-hour limit there. That's twice the recommended speed. And then the pictures -- really, the pictures drive this whole story here of what's left behind, this twisted mass of metal, glass, luggage, 243 people on board, some just tossed around. You heard one woman was found hanging upside down just upon impact here.

Others were crushed as the carriages tipped over. One passenger says he watched as women were launched into luggage racks. And another sat helpless as people were crushed under a row of seats.

Now, most of the passengers were rushed to hospitals. Some are still unaccounted for. We heard the mayor saying that the search operation there on site continues. And we also know the number of those who lost their lives is now at seven.

Cell phone video, cell phone video showing what it took to escape that mangled train, watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here. Hold on. Hold on here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go, go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should I just get out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you help me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So many people leapt into action, if they could, helping others. And while some were prying open these doors, others crawled through all this jagged metal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you, OK? OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep crawling, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where am I crawling to?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crawl forward, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep crawling. Keep crawling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep crawling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We just heard from the mayor of Philadelphia, Michael Nutter. He spoke just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL NUTTER (D), MAYOR OF PHILADELPHIA: You know, last night, when we first arrived on the scene, we knew it was bad. Lighting was not particularly good the first time we went there, but you could see just the devastation of a train.

I ride the train on a regular basis. I have been on the 710 out of Washington, D.C., coming back to Philadelphia, been on -- I use Amtrak a lot. But to see these cars, these huge metal vehicles turned upside down, one basically almost split in half, most of the cars either upside down, on their side, or tilting, the engine completely separated, you know that this is a devastating situation.

But that was last night. And then the second visit, when we had more light, we'd brought in light cannons, but to see it in the daytime is almost indescribable. Its painful. And it is amazing. It is incredible that so many people walked away from that scene last night. I saw people on the street behind us walking off of that train. And I don't know how that happened but for the grace of God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go straight to the scene, to my colleague Ashleigh Banfield.

And, again, Ashleigh, we're watching and waiting for that news conference from folks at Temple Hospital, but, meantime, speed. We know that they have the event recorders, these black boxes, a lot of data they will be able to glean from that, including exactly how fast this train was going.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, because they're at the Amtrak operations headquarters in Wilmington, and they have done that data dump, Brooke.

So, they should know some pretty salient information about Rene Marsh's sources and what they're telling her, and CNN now reporting that those sources close to that investigation say that that train was going in excess of 100 miles per hour as it approached to that curve.

I have been to that curve. I have seen that curve. And I have seen the devastation that lies after that curve. That curve is rated for 50 miles an hour, and for good reason. It is a sharp curve. It brings to mind the incident in the Bronx in which a train derailed going 80-plus miles an hour in a 30 zone, several people killed there as well in 2013.

So, as we continue to wait on further details of the investigation, Mayor Nutter's news conference yielded a lot more new information. He may be hedging, saying a lot of this is preliminary, but there was a lot of information. First and foremost, two United States congressmen were here on location. They not only toured that scene of devastation, but they were also briefed on the information that perhaps isn't all necessarily public yet.

[15:05:02]

We also know, as you have reported, Brooke, seven dead now. That's up one from the count when we got the official release back at 10:00 a.m. They also said that they have started notifying next of kin. That's critical as well. They said that the data points of reconciliation include hospitals, EMS transport. So they brought that into the mix as well, trying to figure out, who did you take, who did you get to the hospital, where did you take them, what are their names?

Friends and relatives center, trying to coordinate those people, whether they still have someone missing. Also, the medical examiner's office, that detail and those pieces of data coming in for that reconciliation of data points to figure out if they're still missing anyone, because the mayor, Brooke, said that they will go through every single vehicle until they find out whether they have left anyone behind.

They also said canine dogs involved in this and that they have expanded the search area. And the mayor got real specific about that too, saying that it is entirely possible that someone may have been thrown from this train during this wreck.

So the canine dogs hard at work -- we can't get anywhere near this location at this point. The location I went to was sort of a high point atop of a building in which I could look over this rail bend. I couldn't see any visible scarring before the bend. I couldn't see anything that would have indicated that train derailed anywhere before the bend.

Naked eye only -- and, again, I'm a layperson, but it certainly looked as though the derailment and the damage came to the midportion of the bend or afterwards. Also want to make a huge correction that the mayor himself had to correct. He reported to us at 10:00 that it was the conductor who was injured and treated and released and debriefed by the police here in this city.

He's now corrected that to the engineer. That's a big difference. The conductor does ticketing. And you have seen the conductor going up and down the aisles of the train. The engineer is the one who's operating the train. So, whatever data that this engineer is able to download to the police and to investigators will be massively significant in all of this, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Absolutely, and, as you mentioned, that event recorder sitting in Wilmington, Delaware, there, going through that piece by piece by piece, figuring out the what, the why.

Ashleigh Banfield, thank you.

Let me bring in David Soucie, CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector.

And, David Soucie, obviously, I want to hit home this point of speed. And I was talking to someone who knows training very well last hour, and what he told me I didn't realize was that there's a train control system in place. So, if a train is going too fast, there is a warning system, so either the engineer can slow the train down manually, or it should automatically slow.

Is that correct?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Yes, it is. And both of those things should have been in place with this train and probably were.

That's why investigators will be looking very closely at whether or not that system itself was functioning normally, because, had it been normal, it would have actually given the warning first. And then, if it's excessive speed -- now, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's just a little bit above what the recommended speed is for that turn of 50 miles per hour -- it would have waited until it was high enough to risk a derailment.

And then, at that point, it would automatically deploy the brakes. Now, that system has been under some investigation and some questioning, as would any kind of auto takeover system of any kind of train or airplane or car, because it takes some knowledge and it takes some really intricate maintenance to make sure that it's performing the right way at the right time, because putting the brakes on at the wrong time can throw the whole schedule off for trains and cause other problems as well. BALDWIN: So, put yourself in the shoes of these investigators.

Obviously, we know that the engineer, the one who drives the train, he's given a statement to investigators. We know NTSB is on the scene. They have to be looking -- looking at the tracks.

I don't know. You tell me what they would be looking for on those tracks or how the cars are now laid flat or mangled in some situations, what exactly I guess all of the above they're really looking into.

SOUCIE: Yes. Yes.

Well, really, the first thing is going to focus on the engineer. The engineer will probably undergo some toxicology tests just to make sure that he was, you know, very aware, that there wasn't -- and I'm not suggesting there was. It's just a matter of routine.

BALDWIN: Sure.

SOUCIE: It's what you would do in any kind of accident...

(CROSSTALK)

SOUCIE: ... is you want to make sure that that engineer is tested and that he's -- that his blood alcohol is where it should be and all of those kinds of things.

Ruling that out, the next thing that you look at, of course, by the way that the train is twisted, you notice that the first car, the engine itself, is not nearly as mangled. That doesn't necessarily mean that the cars behind it derailed and it didn't. What it does mean is that that -- that engine is much heavier and a greater mass than any of the other following cars.

So the inertia from the cars behind come forward and actually mangle -- you notice that second car is very well -- a very twisted and mangled. And that would make sense in a derailment, because, as it rolls over, the cars behind continue the force. All of that energy goes forward into that car.

[15:10:08]

So, that's one of the things that you will look at there as a clue as to whether it was a derailment from a high-speed roll or whether it was a derailment from something on the track or the tracks actually narrowing. We have had cases of that before, but Amtrak has been very good about that. They have very extensive systems in place to ensure that the tracks are at the right parallel, they're at the right angles for the turns.

So, I don't suspect that, but it is something they will be looking at as investigators.

BALDWIN: David Soucie, is it time we have seat belts on trains? Would that have helped?

SOUCIE: You know, that's a very good question. I think it would have.

Back in 2007, there were three different studies done by the Railroad Safety Board. All three of those studies said that -- well, each one of them had different focus, but one of them was talking about a three-point harness, whether it's worth it to have a three-point harness on.

And they said, no, it's not. You have to question, was that the right question to ask? Should it have just been a lap belt? Maybe that's something that they should have looked at more in-depth. But I have read all these of three reports.

The other thing about these reports is that they were really focused on whether or not someone would be ejected from the train. And you mentioned earlier that there's dogs out sniffing, looking for possible people that have been ejected from the train.

Now, the strength of the window glass has been something that's brought in question there. If you strengthen the window glass to keep people from exiting the train on a derailment, then you risk the ability -- make an inability to get out. As with any safety feature, it can also cause vulnerabilities.

So, that's one of the things they looked at in this as well. The idea that the seat belts are needed or not needed is really kind of ruled out by the fact that the inertia of the train is much different than you would have in a car or a small van or maybe an airplane, in that the inertia of the train continues to go forward and really kind of plow its way through things.

And you wouldn't get those abrupt stops that you would expect in smaller vehicles. But, in this case, you can see clearly this had an abrupt stop. Clearly, it had bodies flying through the air, it had debris flying through the air. And this is something that was not looked at in any of those three studies, was whether or not a person not attached would cause injury to another person on board the -- on board the vehicle, which is I think what we have seen here...

BALDWIN: Right.

SOUCIE: ... is head and neck injuries of this type that are from other people running into people, not actually from the person moving themselves, but from someone running into them.

BALDWIN: Right.

SOUCIE: You actually become a projectile. And there's bodies above and below in these types of accidents.

BALDWIN: And also the luggage. Luggage isn't secure when you hop on an Amtrak train. You just kind of put it either under your seat or in that compartment ahead of you.

SOUCIE: You're right.

BALDWIN: It's not like it's -- it's not at all like it is when you're on a plane, things to think about.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: David Soucie, as always, thank you very, very much.

We're going to stay on this. We're watching and waiting for that hospital news conference, an update on the numbers of people who have been injured, the severity of their injuries, as we have learned seven people have died. That's the latest number we got from the Philadelphia mayor.

We will take that live. Also, I will speak with two passengers who were on that train who survived, who escaped the wreckage. Hear their stories next. You do not want to miss this. You're watching CNN's special live coverage. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:37]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

You can see media. They're getting set up for another news conference. We heard from Philly Mayor Michael Nutter. Now we're about to hear from Temple University Hospital as far as severity of injuries, how many people they're still treating at the hospital in the wake of this tragic and fatal derailment there last night in the Philadelphia area.

Now, from the NTSB here, we have been reporting this on CNN, according to a source. And now you have got it from the NTSB, telling CNN that train is believed to have been traveling more than 100 miles per hour when it jumped off those tracks. Again, that's twice as fast as the speed limit on that curve.

The train was en route from Washington, D.C., to New York, when this happened there in the Philadelphia area. Right now, we know seven people are dead, eight people are in critical condition, and more than 200 have been injured, again, NTSB on the ground there on the scene. We know that the search operation is continuing as well.

They have expanded the search area because there's always the possibility that someone could have been thrown, could have been ejected quite a distance from that train.

So, let me bring in Erin McLaughlin. She's got some details as far as what's happening there.

And, Erin, we heard from the mayor. And I think, again, just to remind people, they're still searching potentially for people who were on that train.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Brooke.

And that's because the 243 people that they believe may have been on that train, well, not all of them have been accounted for. So there's been this very active and ongoing, rigorous search process that went into the night last night and into the day today. Last night, they actually brought out sniffer dogs to search an expanded search area.

And then this morning, they expanded that area once again, the visual search continuing. Now, it is very difficult, they say, for them to account for all 243 people that were on the train for a variety of reasons. It could be -- 243 people, rather, that were on the manifest of the train, need to say, for a variety of reasons.

It's possible that not everyone who had a ticket boarded that train. They said that it's possible that people were on board the train simply walked away. They're trying to square up the manifest with hospital records as well. So, this is a very detailed and ongoing process, as you say, seven people killed, authorities here saying that it could have been much worse.

I spoke to one man, Jeff Kutler, who actually walked away from the crash site. Take a listen to what he had to say, how he describes the moment of impact.

[15:20:09]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF KUTLER, SURVIVOR: There's this split-second where, to me, it felt like the car was lifting off the ground. It was lifting off the rail. It was -- there was a -- we were going through a curve. And whatever speed it was going at pushed it out and pushed it up and we just flew. It almost felt like flying, but it wasn't the right kind of flying.

And it hit...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, he was actually brought from the crash area to the hospital on board a police van with other potential victims. There simply weren't enough ambulances in the area to treat all of the wounded.

Incredibly, Brooke, he tells me that he would travel on board another Amtrak train again after all that.

BALDWIN: People need Amtrak. I mean, that's the way so many people get to and from work and home each and every day.

Erin McLaughlin, thank you so much in Philadelphia.

And as you can imagine, so many people hop on the train each and every day or weekly. So, right now, train service along the East Coast has been seriously impacted by that train derailment. All Amtrak service, in fact, between New York and Philadelphia has been suspended.

So, Brian Stelter is in New York at Penn Station.

And I see a number of people looking at the big board behind you. How much has this affected people you're talking to?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: If you look up behind me, Brooke, it's more delayed and canceled than it is on time. The trains that are running are only running to about Trenton.

And those are only local trains. There's really no service between New York all the way to Philadelphia. It's like a big hole has been cut in the middle of the Northeast Corridor, the most important train line in the United States, and Amtrak just a couple minutes ago said it's going to be this way for a while. They said they have not been able to figure out Thursday's schedule yet, but it looks very likely that service will remain disrupted.

And all the pictures you're showing us are the obvious reason why. This investigation is going to continue to take some time. And there really isn't a backup train line for Amtrak trains like this. It's not as if there's a second rail system that these trains can take from New York to Washington and from Washington to New York. There's really just this one main line.

And that's why people are seeking out the buses instead, flights instead, but, of course, because of supply and demand, those flights now very expensive and those bus seats now very hard to come by, very crowded bus lines and plane flights here between New York and Washington and vice versa.

BALDWIN: Yes.

STELTER: But there are some people here, as you can see. There are some local trains. There are some options, but it is making a big mess for people who are thankfully here and able to travel, but inconvenienced.

BALDWIN: Yes. I mean, I heard I think from one of my colleagues this morning that even trying to -- you can't take the train, the shuttles out of La Guardia, say, to head to Washington. It's just -- it was packed, it was packed for obvious reasons.

And no one really knows, Brian, how long it will be before service is restored.

STELTER: I think that's the key, yes. I think that's the key. I was planning on taking a train on Friday. Lots of people make their plans, especially businesspeople, media people, and politicians.

This is that kind of train. These are the kind of trains where, if you're on the train, you sometimes overhear politicians talking to people. You sometimes overhear people like that. It's very much a train line used by people to get -- to commute really between New York and Washington with Philadelphia in between.

And, as we learned today, sadly, one of the people that we know died was an Associated Press staff member. One of the biggest news agencies in the world is mourning the death of one of their staffers. Another one of their staffers actually was able to survive, was able to walk away, and describe what happened. But it just goes to show, you had a lot of people trying to commute home at the end of the day last night.

You also had journalists and other news people and, as we know, politicians taking the train home late last night.

BALDWIN: It's just so easy to hop on Amtrak, isn't it, and avoid the hassle of the airports. It's just so, so tragic what's happened, Brian Stelter.

STELTER: Well, usually. Usually is, yes.

BALDWIN: Right. Right, usually. Brian Stelter at Penn Station, thank you so much, Brian.

Still ahead, again, we're waiting for that hospital news conference, the Temple University Hospital news conference, to get some updates on some of those who were injured and taken to hospital last night. We will bring that to you live.

Also, I will speak with these two passengers, a mother and her son, who survived the crash, their harrowing stories next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:33]

BALDWIN: We are back with our breaking story here, our special coverage of this deadly train derailment in Philadelphia.

News just in from the NTSB here. CNN has been reporting, and now NTSB sort of confirming that the train was going twice the speed as it should have been around one particular curve when it crashed. We also now know at least seven people are dead. Others are still missing. A search operation on scene, that's still under way.

So, it is tough for any of us to wrap our minds around what it was like for these people on board this train when it flew off the tracks, those who were flung and found themselves lying amid glass and bleeding and confused, some against the ceiling of an upended train, others trapped between mangled metal.

Joining me now, Max Helfman, who heroically saved his mom, Joan, and others when this train derailed.

Max, thank you so much for being with me today. And how are you doing?

MAX HELFMAN, SURVIVOR: I'm hanging in there.

BALDWIN: Hanging in there. Can you just take me back to last night and when -- what it -- tell me what it felt like, what you saw, how you felt.

HELFMAN: Yes, I mean, it all just happened so fast.

One second, everything was going fine. We started going around the turn, and this car started shaking for about two seconds. And then, before we knew it, we were all just flung to the side of the car. And, as soon as the car stopped, I got up.