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Man Detained at White House; Amtrak Crash; Jeb Bush on Iraq; Travel Along East Coast. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 14, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:20] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go. Breaking news. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's go straight to our nation's capital, to Washington, D.C., and I can tell you what's going on right now. The park on the north side of the White House is on lockdown. Why? Because apparently a man tried to fly a drone over the White House fence. All right?

So you're looking at pictures. This is just in from one of our CNN producers who we're about to talk to. Kristen Holmes saw this whole thing happen. She's joining me. Pamela Brown is joining me as well. She is one of our justice correspondents. And I've also got Juliette Kayyem with me, CNN national security analyst.

So, ladies, let's all walk through this together and begin first and foremost with what we know.

Kristen, to you first. I believe these are photos you took. And I'm not quite sure if we're looking at the man here in the center of the screen who tried to fly this remote controlled aerial device. Can you tell me what you saw?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes. We walked out and we heard almost immediately walking out of the White House Secret Service was on top of it, pushing people through the park, trying to get them out of the street.

We saw this man. He is wearing - I'm not sure what picture you have up there, but he's wearing a blue and white checked shirt, being detained by officers. Several officers chasing him. Moving hundreds of people that were in front of the - in front of the White House out of the streets, out of the area. Now we have a complete gridlock. Secret Service agents are saying that it's going to be at least one more hour.

And witnesses told us that they saw this man trying to fly something over the White House fence. Originally they told us it was a drone. Someone else said it could have been a model airplane. And given the many incidents lately of security breaches at the White House, one man actually told us that he said to the guy flying the device, he said, don't do that, you're going to get in trouble, they're going to come after you. And he said it was just a split second before Secret Service tackled him down. BALDWIN: I used to live a couple blocks from the White House in my

time in D.C. and I'm familiar. If we're talking about - what side of the White House are we talking about because I'm seeing all these people and I'm wondering, is this that park right there adjacent to the White House?

HOLMES: This is the park on the north side, Lafayette Park.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HOLMES: Remember, several years ago they shut down Pennsylvania Avenue. So that's already shut down. Now they've shut down the street on the other side of the park, which is H Street. So it's (INAUDIBLE) no one can walk through. You can't drive through. It's all the way from Connecticut Avenue down to 15th Street. They are looking at about one and a half city blocks here that's totally gridlocked.

BALDWIN: Wow.

HOLMES: And like I said, (INAUDIBLE) are asking, when we can go back to the - when can we go back and see the White House? I heard a Secret Service agent say it's going to be at least another hour.

BALDWIN: OK. So, Kristen, stay with me. I know what we're saying, you know, man detained for trying to fly a drone. We're trying to figure out exactly, to Kristen's point, whether it was a drone. Eyewitness saying maybe it was a model airplane. So, you know, this just happened within the past hour. We're trying to get all the details and the facts straightened out for you.

Pamela Brown, let me bring you in, because we know that, what, a couple months ago there was another drone incident. Wasn't it in the middle of the night four months ago?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It was in January. There was a former intelligence services government employee who was flying his drone he says recreationally from his apartment and it ended up on the White House lawn. And as you may remember, Brooke, it caused a lot of - quite a stir and a national security concern, of course, that this drone could end up on the White House lawn. It wasn't discovered until after.

As it turns out, there was a forensic analysis of that drone, and it showed that there was a malfunction with it, therefore the drone operator was not charged in this case. But it certainly raised a lot of questions, Brooke, about what more the White House, what Secret Service can do to protect the property from drones. More and more people are flying them these days, as we know.

In fact, the FAA just sent out a tweet, Brooke. It says, "your vacation could be blown if you fly a drone, D.C. is a no-drone zone." So the FAA sending out that tweet in the wake of this incident at the White House.

Brooke. BALDWIN: Your vacation could be blown if you fly a drone. You know, we saw what happened on The Mall. That was last month with that gyrocopter. I mean this is total restricted air space, obviously.

Juliette Kayyem, let me bring you in, CNN national security analyst. You know, at least this is a situation in which apparently this individual tried to fly this thing over the fence. What a mess, you know, this creates in and around this area around the White House because you have this lockdown.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): Right.

BALDWIN: At least this is a case in which Secret Service, they caught him.

KAYYEM: Exactly. And this is just part of the challenge that both the Secret Service but actually every law enforcement agency faces, which is after 9/11, when we sort of built up the security apparatus, it was very much focused on physical security. Are the gates high enough? or even look at the White House where they put those planters in. Are the streets closed? It's all physical.

[14:05:05] And then, obviously, technology sort of goes faster sometimes than our security apparatus. And now the threat, or at least, you know, whatever this was, comes from the air. And our systems are just not able to respond often in real time. This was a good situation in which the, you know, the guys were tackled or detained before anything bad happens. But this is sort of a brand new world for the security apparatus, whether it's the Secret Service or, you know, a football event or just a street. People have access to this stuff and our systems just can't - you simply can't react in time given the amount of aerial devices that are out there now.

BALDWIN: What about, you know, listening to our producer who took these pictures and we're looking at the man who was detained there, but what if this was a situation in which this is Lafayette Park, he might have had some kind of model airplane.

KAYYEM: Right.

BALDWIN: Perhaps he should have known better and not tried to put anything in the air within, you know, spitting distance of, you know, the president's not home, he's at Camp David, but, still, it's the White House. Does that matter to you?

KAYYEM: Well, absolutely. I mean I think that, look, I mean, this is - this is a situation I think - I mean just - what you - what you all are saying is that this is a situation in which there are just stupid people who don't think about what they are doing. And, unfortunately, that exists everywhere in the world.

But once you get past those stupid people, let's assume it's a nefarious person, I mean what - what - what we can put in place is obviously things like no-fly zones, you know, visual sighting to ensure that both the air and then people who might be flying stuff are noticed and then detained if appropriate. But, you know, look, I mean the distance that a lot of these drones -

and I should tell the viewers, drone is - just means an unmanned aerial device. So it doesn't necessarily mean it's armed or that it's dangerous. It's just a term that we use for unmanned aerial device. That the response capacity to bring down one of these just does not exist in most non-war-like situations. In wars, we have the capacity to do it. But on a civilian street, even one close to the White House, it's very difficult to do.

BALDWIN: Right. Juliette Kayyem, thank you so much. Pamela Brown, thank you. Kristen Holmes, let us know if the situation changes or what new information you have about this individual or what he was trying to fly. Ladies, thank you.

We are also following some major developments here in the aftermath of that deadly train derailment in Philadelphia. And really the biggest question right now is - surrounds this man, 32-year-old Brandon Bostian. He's the engineer who was at the controls of Train Number 188 when it rounded that bend and just flew off the tracks, traveling twice as fast as it should have been there. But what exactly he was doing at the time remains a mystery today.

Right now authorities, including Bostian's lawyer, don't even seem to agree as to whether the engineer is cooperating with investigators. His lawyer says Bostian spoke to police for hours, though he has a concussion and remembers next to nothing about the crash. But it's a different story from police officials, who tell CNN that Bostian refused to answer questions.

Here's what we can confirm right now. The number of those lives lost, that has climbed now to eight after authorities this morning made a grisly discovery amid all the wreckage there.

Joining me now, I have CNN's Erin McLaughlin and national correspondent Jason Carroll and Sunlen Serfaty.

So, Erin, let me begin with you. The mayor, I know, of Philadelphia, Michael Nutter, he held a press conference just a little while ago. What exactly did he say about this engineer?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He seemed to contradict the attorney as to the level of cooperation that Brandon Bostian was participating with authorities. Now, the attorney for Brandon Bostian says that he answered hours of questioning from police, that he handed over blood samples, that he also handed over his cell phone, and that contradicts what the mayor, Michael Nutter, just said hours ago in a press conference. Nutter said that, yes, he did have a concussion and, yes, he was having memory problems, but that he didn't want to answer police questions. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MICHAEL NUTTER (D), PHILADELPHIA: The engineer was injured. Again, I want to remind you, the engineer, of course, was in the first train car, the engine component. That car, we believe, actually tumbled over and over and over numerous times, and the engineer survived. He was taken out of the vehicle, went to a hospital, received treatment, was interviewed by the police department, and I believe it was a pretty short interview in which he apparently indicated that he did not want to be interviewed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:10:12] MCLAUGHLIN: Now, Bostian's lawyer says that he would be willing to talk to investigators. They just need to let him know when they want to talk to him. He also says that he's suffered from no prior medical conditions. That he was not on any medications at the time of the crash. That he wasn't taking alcohol and that he wasn't on drugs. They also said that he was not on his cell phone. He said that his cell phone was turned off at the time of the crash, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And he handed that cell phone over to investigators. Erin, thank you.

Jason, to you. Just in terms of the victims here, again, the number now standing at eight. You talked to an uncle who believes his nephew is among them. Tell me about that conversation.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Robert Gildersleeve (ph), you know that that is the Baltimore businessman who boarded the train in Baltimore. Well, his family, Ken Vino (ph), his uncle was actually out here at the crash site this morning, Brooke. And when I spoke to him on phone, he said that he had just left the crash site and was actually on his way to be the morgue. And when I asked him, I said, do you believe that there is any chance, any hope at all at this point? He told me, he said, quote, "I do not believe so. I believe it is over for us." And so at this point the Gildersleeve family making those final identifications, we believe.

You also remember that this is the same man who had a 13-year-old son who submitted that very heart-touching video, hoping for the return of his father. So you can imagine what this family is now going for - going through at this point.

Again, the city is officially saying eight fatalities. They did not officially identify that eighth fatality. They did say that all 243 people who were on board have been identified. So at this point, waiting to hear word from the Gildersleeve family. Not a good word, not a good time for this family, like so many out here.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Our thoughts with all of them, of course. And those are the ones who didn't make it. Then there are those who made it to the hospital, many of whom were injured. I know, Sunlen, eight people are still in critical condition. Hearing from that Temple University Hospital, you know, official yesterday saying a number of them still have surgeries. Can you tell me about those eight?

CARROLL: Well, as you can - a lot of the injuries that they're dealing with are -

BALDWIN: I'm sorry, Jason. Forgive me. I think Sunlen's - Sunlen, go ahead.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know it's a serious situation for these eight that, as you said, they are still in critical condition. We know that they have significant chest injuries. That's according to the medical doctor here. They have punctured lungs and a series of rib fractures. And that's why they're still classified as still being in critical condition. And the medical doctor said to us earlier today, he said he does not even - he doesn't believe that these patients are even aware of the extent of what happened to them, what they went through.

Now this hospital is treating 16 patients overall. That's down significantly from the 54 that they originally received on Tuesday night. And Dr. Cushing, the medical director here, he spoke earlier today about the kinds of conversations that he's had over the last two days with these patients.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. HERBERT CUSHING, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: The injuries that were sustained by most folks because they had things fall on them, and those things included other people. So that was a very common story I heard. I would ask people, those that were awake, what happened to you? And they said, oh, somebody fell on me. And it's not just sort of falling on them. People were hurled violently against each other. And there was some luggage flying around. And then some of the injuries were people being thrown against seats and, you know, the sides of the train compartments when it flipped over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And this is just one of the six area hospitals that is - are treating people. Now currently we know among all of the hospitals in this city who took some of the passengers - took the passengers of the train, we now know that 35 people city wide remain hospitalized.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sunlen Serfaty, thank you. Jason Carroll, thank you. Erin McLaughlin, I appreciate you as well.

Still ahead, I want to stay on this story out of Philadelphia and we'll take a closer look at the travel impact this is having across the incredibly busy northeast corridor. We'll take you to the hub there in New York City, that's Penn Station, for a look at what travelers need to expect over the course of the next few days.

Also moments ago, Jeb Bush takes another crack at the question, was the Iraq War a mistake? His answer, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:45] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. And after a couple of days of evolving answers about the Iraq War, Jeb

Bush now hopes to quiet the critics. I want to play you some sound. This is what he just told supporters moments ago at a town hall in Tempe, Arizona. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: So, here's the deal. If we're all supposed to answer hypothetical questions knowing what we now know, what would you have done, I would have not engaged - I would not have gone into Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All week the likely 2016 presidential hopeful has not been able to escape questions about the war his brother green lighted in 2003. Listen now to this confrontation he had last night with a college student in Nevada.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVY ZIEDRICH (ph): It was when 30,000 individuals who were part of the Iraqi military, they were forced out. They had no employment, they had no income, yet they were left with access to the same arms and weapons. Your brother created ISIS.

BUSH: All right. Is that a question? Is that a question?

ZIEDRICH: You don't need to be pedantic to me, sir. You could just answer my question.

BUSH: What is the question?

ZIEDRICH: My question is, why are you saying that ISIS was created by us not having a presence in the Middle East -

BUSH: Because, by the time we left -

ZIEDRICH: When it's pointless wars where we send young American men to die for the idea of American exceptionalism? Why are you spouting nationalist rhetoric to get us involved in more wars?

[14:20:05] BUSH: We respectfully disagree. We have a disagreement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And he was on - he went on. There was definitely more of his answer. Well, you see Wolf Blitzer. He's here with me onset.

And, really, I just wanted to focus on what we turned around initially moments ago where, you know, and I think it's really important, to use your word, to be precise.

WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Yes.

BALDWIN: Right, because when he was on Fox with Megyn Kelly May 10th, this is what he said. "I would have authorized the invasion, and so would have Hillary Clinton, just to remind everyone, and so would almost everybody that was confronted with the intelligence they got." Right? And then as he was just talking about it just in the last few moments, he said, his evolving answer, after knowing what he knows now, I would not have gone into Iraq. To me, there is a stark difference in those responses.

BLITZER: Right. Well, Hillary Clinton did vote for the authorization leading to the war in 2003 -

BALDWIN: Right.

BLITZER: As did Joe Biden, for example. A whole bunch of other Democrats as well. They got the same intelligence that the president of the United States got. The president got intelligence saying Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, had stockpiles, and, as a result, they voted for the authorization.

There were some, not a whole lot, but there were some senators who voted against that authorization and they got the same intelligence because they didn't think it was, yes, maybe Saddam Hussein has stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, but that's not enough to go launch this kind of war. Senator Bob Graham, for example, the former senator from Florida, he was on the intelligence committee. He saw the same intelligence as all of these other senators. He voted against it because he didn't think it was still enough justification.

France. The government of France at the time, they had same intelligence also. They didn't think there should be a war. So you could argue about what was going on.

In this particular case, Jeb Bush, defending his brother I guess in part -

BALDWIN: Right.

BLITZER: Feeling he's got to defend his brother, you know, he mishandled it at the begin. He's now trying repeatedly to clean it up. But he certainly mishandled it at the beginning. And knowing he's running for president of the United States, knowing that there's all this attention on his older brother who was president, he should have expected -

BALDWIN: Wouldn't he have known this would have been a question coming at him?

BLITZER: Yes. It's a question -

BALDWIN: Why is this not a question he had the answer in the can?

BLITZER: Right, he mishandled - he mishandled it. I'm sure he agrees he mishandled it and he says he misheard Megyn Kelly's specific question. That's why he came back and tried to fix it.

BALDWIN: OK. Let's talk about your interview with Senator Rand Paul yesterday on your show because you also asked him about Iraq. And instead of answering with the two words "Jeb Bush," he pivoted multiple times -

BLITZER: Right.

BALDWIN: And kept saying, Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton. Why?

BLITZER: Because he's looking ahead. He thinks he - maybe he's going to be the Republican presidential nominee. He thinks Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic presidential nominee. And he's saying not only did she make a mistake in voting yes, in favor of the war in Iraq, but look what she did in Libya, for example. You get rid of Gadhafi and the whole situation - you know, you think it's going to be democracy, an Arab Spring, but the whole region is a disaster right now. So he's looking for an excuse to go after not only Jeb Bush - he'd like to go after Jeb Bush himself because he sees Jeb Bush as a rival.

And, remember, Rand Paul is much more what he calls noninterventionist but his critics say he's an isolationist. He doesn't want to get involved overseas. He wants the U.S. to stay out of all these crises in the Middle East or in North Africa or elsewhere around the world. And he makes no bones about it. He says there's got to be a really high standard, a really high reason to go to war and only Congress can authorize that kind of a war. Those are some of the points he made to me yesterday. In fact, I think we have a clip of something he said. I'll play this clip.

BALDWIN: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think there's a consistent theme here that every candidate should be asked, and that is, is it a good idea to go into the Middle East, topple governments, and hope that something better rises out of the chaos? Because recent history seems to show, you know what, we're not getting something better, we're getting something worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Yes. So there's Rand Paul. You know, and he - he may be distinctive among the Republican candidates, much more reluctant to use military force overseas. He'll do it if necessary, but he's going to have a high standard.

BALDWIN: OK. Wolf Blitzer, we'll see you on at 5:00 Eastern.

BLITZER: A show called "The Situation Room."

BALDWIN: So if you are in "The Situation Room," am i technically in it right now?

BLITZER: Whatever room I'm in, there's a situation.

BALDWIN: Wolf Blitzer, ladies and gentlemen. We'll see you in a couple hours. Thank you so much, my friend. I appreciate it.

Still ahead, we have to take you back to Philadelphia and let you know the very latest on that train derailment, the travel impact it's having, specifically in this very busy northeastern corridor, what travelers need to expect over the course of the weekend.

We are also keeping a close eye on what's been happening, this breaking story out of the White House. A man has been detained just in the last hour, accused of trying to fly a drone over the White House fence. He was not successful. He has been detained. New information there. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:57] BALDWIN: This train derailment and the ongoing investigation have disrupted travel all up and down the northeast corridor. Amtrak is operating on a reduced schedule. That route between New York and Philadelphia has been canceled outright. And this has forced a lot of people to seek alternate transportation, bus, planes, et cetera. CNN correspondent Jean Casarez is live there at Penn Station in New York City.

And I know there have been a lot of delays and cancellations up on the big board. How is it going today?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a travel nightmare. It really is. You know, there's a lot of people behind me, but those are people that are going north of New York to Boston, to Niagara Falls, to Buffalo. And there's an announcement right now, they're constantly making it, about all the cancellations.

And if you look at the board here, there are many cancellations. Harrisburg, Lynchburg, Norfolk, Virginia, now on the board. A cancellation to Miami. This is what I'm being told by Amtrak. If you get yourself to Pennsylvania and you get on a train that's beyond the tracks that have been derailed, then you can get yourself limited service to Harrisburg, Washington, D.C., Baltimore, and all of those locations.

[14:30:03] But the economic impact in all of this, it is quite amazing.