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Train Crash Disrupts Travel Along East Coast; Train Driver Had "No Recollection Whatsoever"; Tsarnaev Jurors Ask Judge For Legal Guidance. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 14, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Washington, D.C., Baltimore, and all of those locations. But the economic impact in all of this, it is quite amazing.

According to statistics, $100 million a day is what Amtrak is losing because of all the cancellations and all the routes that people cannot travel. And there are 750,000 passengers a day on Amtrak. We're talking about the northeast corridor alone and per year, 260 million travelers on Amtrak in the northeast corridor.

It's definitely the northeast that's the hub of train travel in this country. If you look at it, it's 11.4 million per year of travelers between Boston, Washington, and New York. Then if you look at the pacific, it's far less than that, 2.7 million, Capitol corridor, 1.7 million.

This really is the leader. So what are people doing? Well, they have to take buses. They have to take a car or they have to take a plane if they want to get to those locations. Brooke, that can be a lot more expensive than the Amtrak train -- Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Right. And you know, mystery, too, is how much longer before everything goes back to normal. Jean Casarez at Penn Station, thank you very much.

They don't know and they won't know perhaps for some time. Also a key question from this entire train derailment is this. Would safety technology have actually made a difference here? We'll take you inside a simulator and show you exactly how it works.

Also, new information, we've got an update for you on the breaking story from the White House. The man accused of trying to fly this remote control device over the White House fence. We'll talk to someone who watched it all unfold and update the situation for you as far as lockdowns, what's been lifted. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:42]

BALDWIN: We are just past the bottom of the hour here on CNN. I just wanted to update our breaking news out of the nation's capital. The street on the north side of the White House has now reopened after being on lockdown after this man apparently tried to fly a drone over the White House fence unsuccessfully.

Secret Service grabbed him, detained him. You see him there on the ground. Whole thing now is under investigation. I should also mention President Obama is up at Camp David so he wasn't home.

Joining me now is CNN producer, Kristen Holmes. She's the one providing us these photos. You were there. Tell us again what happened and if the lockdown has fully lifted.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN PRODUCER (via telephone): Hi, Brooke. Let me start with the lockdown. It has not fully lifted. The White House has said it is open, but the park itself, Lafayette Park, is still completely shut down. There's no one there except for a couple officers and a canine unit.

So what happened was there was a man apparently in the park. Witnesses say he was flying a device, an aerial twice -- trying to fly it over the White House fence. One witness told us he actually said, don't do that, you're going to get in trouble.

Moments later, the Secret Service there tackled him, brought him out. They cleared the park in a matter of minutes. It was probably 4 minutes before everybody was out. They had cleared Pennsylvania Avenue. They had also marked down the street a block from that on the other side of the park on H Street.

Now they have opened back up H Street. They are allowing people to walk down on the side, the perimeter of the White House, and the park. But they're not letting anyone through right now. They're still guarding it very securely.

There are dozens of people lined up here, some taking photos, others waiting for the park to open, unsure of what's going on.

BALDWIN: So this time, I mean, really Secret Service, they're on it.

HOLMES: Yes. You know, they've been under a lot of scrutiny lately for several events in the last several months. I have to say that watching this happen, it was -- it all happened very fast. They reacted incredibly quickly. Like I said, about 4 minutes before the entire park was cleared out. There were swaths of children. They got everybody out.

BALDWIN: All right, Kristen Holmes, our CNN producer. Kristen, thank you so much for hopping on the phone and updating us there.

Let's move on to the story here out of Philadelphia, this deadly train derailment. The attorney for the man who was at the controls when Amtrak 188 flew off the rails Tuesday says this about his client.

Brandon Bostian had not been drinking at the time of the crash. He was not on drugs. He was not on his cell phone, which he says was off and in his bag. Here's more from his attorney, who was on "Good Morning America."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GOGGIN, ATTORNEY FOR AMTRAK 188'S ENGINEER: I believe as a result of the concussion, he has absolutely no recollection whatsoever of the events. I'm told that his memory is likely to return as the concussion symptoms subside. He remembers coming into the curve. He remembers attempting to reduce speed thereafter. He was knocked out, thrown around, just like all the other passengers in that train.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this and much more that we're learning. I have a Professor Joe from DePaul University, a longstanding contributor at the Transportation Research Board. Professor, welcome.

JOSEPH SCHWIETERMAN, CONTRIBUTOR, TRANSPORTATION RESEARCH BOARD: Thank you.

BALDWIN: So let me just begin with that response from the attorney from this conductor. If he's saying he had no recollection, but doctors are saying over time as his concussions subsides, his memory will return, what do you make of that response, A, as this engineer was rounding this curve, and B, what kinds of questions will he be asked once his memory comes back?

SCHWIETERMAN: You know, it's really critical to see if it was human error, human misjudgment that caused this. It does appear that way. We don't know, of course. If that's the case, that's going to trigger all this discussion about positive train control systems, which are designed to prevent somebody surpassing the speed limit or taking the train into harm's way.

That's a million-dollar question here. If it's something wrong with the track or something, that's a whole different set of solutions. So we need that answer soon.

BALDWIN: I want to get back to positive train control, because I've just been reading and reading about this and wondering why this was absent here. But first, you know, as far as this engineer, NTSB says, yes, he hit that emergency brake.

[14:40:02] I'm wondering, if you're going into the curve, and again at one point apparently the train was going 106 miles an hour and then 102 before the black box stopped recording, which thus would be when the accident occurred, why would you be going that fast in the first place, and how quickly once you hit the emergency brake can the train really slow down?

SCHWIETERMAN: You know, this is our northeast corridor. Philadelphia-New York is a gem. It's probably the most important single city pair in the system. With four tracks, a couple are really designed for high speed, some trains hit 150 at certain segments. This train isn't meant to go that fast, but it comes reasonably close.

So stopping a train at that speed takes well over a mile. I think it does appear that the train approached this curve with fairly minimal deceleration. That makes you wonder if it wasn't just a judgment problem, but there may have been a complete inattentiveness in the cab.

The braking would need to start a mile or so back. Those kinds of speeds, of course, that's only about 30, 45 seconds. So clearly this wasn't just a mild misjudgment. It was something really basic. And boy, we haven't seen a train wreck at that speed in the United States really as far as I can remember. So this is something new.

BALDWIN: If you're at the helm, if you're the engineer of this train and you know how busy this northeast corridor is -- and I have to imagine it's part of training. These engineers have to, I don't know, practically by memory know every nook and cranny and curve. Is this something that engineers in general anticipate?

SCHWIETERMAN: Well, it certainly is. The rules are designed so crews are rested. We had the big accident in Los Angeles in 2008. That led to some real wake-up calls. We had an engineer who was texting. He ordered lunch on his cell phone not long before the accident.

It was an indication that you can set these systems up perfectly, but if the crew isn't -- their head isn't there, so that led to a whole set of rules about using devices while you're at the front of a train.

And of course, that triggered the whole positive train control discussion too. But this is a general trend in transportation carriers are worried about. One of the airlines issued an advisory a few months ago saying it noticed some slippage in how pilots are following rules.

Of course, truck driving, we've seen some notorious stories of hours of service lulls getting ignored. So it's something bigger than just what happened to one person, if this indeed was human error.

Is there a new kind of safeguard we need to see to make sure, you know, people at the helm aren't taking second jobs and coming to the throttle really tired? Man, this is pretty egregious.

BALDWIN: At least we know this engineer gave a blood sample for toxicology reports. He gave up his cell phone. He said it was off. Finally, just quickly on positive train control.

This is essentially if you're rounding a curve like this and if the engineer doesn't slow it down, there would be some mechanism to override to automatically slow it, which was absent on this part of the track. Why? Why does this not exist here?

SCHWIETERMAN: I think in a nutshell, this is an Amtrak-owned track. The carrier is doing its best to try to meet everything. The tragedy is the system is almost ready to be turned on. It's been installed and appeared to be a few months away from being ready.

I think what happened here, and it's a bit of a lesson, after the 2008 accident, Congress passed a law saying this will be put in on all routes where there are passenger trains and hazardous materials. It was such a big mandate.

Railroads have spent $5 billion now. There never was that sense of prioritization. This route, if any, really should have had it first. And the funding should be directed at that rather than this mandate that the railroads are in some ways almost choking on around the country.

So Congress just a month or so ago had a debate about should we extend the deadline because railroads are finding this too much too soon. Boy, this accident is going to kick that discussion into the stratosphere.

BALDWIN: Yes, it has. Hopefully it will happen at the end of this year. Professor Schwieterman of DePaul University, thank you so much for your expertise. I really, really appreciate you.

SCHWIETERMAN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Boston. The jurors in that Boston bomber trial now deciding whether to sentence the convicted terrorist to death. What we learned today, they sent a note to the judge. They have a question. What they asked, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:49:04]

BALDWIN: Jurors in the Boston marathon bombing death penalty trial involving Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the convicted terrorist now, this is day two of deliberations. We've learned that earlier in the day, they sent a note to the judge asking for legal guidance.

Their question had something to do with interpreting quote/unquote "gateway factors." What does that mean? Let's ask our correspondent there, Deborah Feyerick, following the deliberations from downtown Boston. Gateway factors, Deb? What does that mean? What was the question?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's a step in the process. Effectively what it means is they've got to determine whether or not, in fact, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev intentionally meant to kill, intentionally inflicted harm and misery.

They've got to get through these factors before they can go on to each category. This is the second category. They later sent another note dealing with the third category, which is aggravating factors. It does appear the jury is sort of moving its way through the verdict form.

[14:50:01] This is the verdict form right here. This is the one that they're looking at. This is what they're going to have to fill out. It's really Section Six, the mitigating factors, that is perhaps the most interesting because it's the mitigating factors

that are open to what could be the most interpretation and the most discussion.

Was Tamerlan the mastermind behind all this? Was Dzhokhar unduly under his influence because his parents didn't offer the guidance? The jurors have to vote on those mitigating factors. So we could get a sense of what they themselves felt about not just the outcome of the evidence but the role each of the brothers played.

It's the mitigating factors that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's team really wants the jurors to focus on. That's what could get him life in prison. The jury could either vote unanimously that death is the right sentence, unanimously that life in prison is the right sentence, or they could find that some of the capital counts, well, those are deserving of death, and death will trump the other charges, even if they find life.

So they have a lot to go through, but it looks like they're doing a diligent job getting through it.

BALDWIN: Again, to your point, though, it has to be unanimous. This is just day two. Deborah Feyerick, thank you so much in Boston.

Let's go back, though, to Philadelphia and our special coverage there of the deadly train derailment. Investigators are piecing together possible causes and the mechanics and the speed, the ways this sort of crash could be prevented in the future.

I want to take a moment to remember the lives lost in this tragedy. We know at least one person died in the hospital yesterday. Now the total number of those who lost their lives stands at eight. We don't know all of their identities yet. Many people who knew the victims have come forward, trying to express and comprehend this enormous loss.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a loving son, nephew, and cousin who was very community minded. This tragedy has shocked us all in the worst way.

BALDWIN (voice-over): The 20-year-old Justin Zemser was a sophomore at the U.S. Naval Academy. He was a team captain of his high school football team and valedictorian. Those who knew him called him a genius.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simply put, he was the best person I know. He made me better. We made each other better.

BALDWIN: He was headed home to Rockaway Beach, New York, to visit his family. Software architect Jim Gaines worked for the "Associated Press." He won a number of awards for his work with live video and was known for his, quote, "tireless dedication."

PAUL CALUORI, JIM GAINES' COLLEAGUE: He would just do things to try and make your day better.

BALDWIN: His wife released a statement saying, quote, "Jim was more precious to us than we can adequately express." He leaves behind two children. Abid Gilani served as a senior vice president at Wells Fargo

originally from Ontario. Abid previously worked as the CFO for Marriott Hotels in Europe. A married father of two, he was returning home from his uncle's funeral in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abid was a dear person. He was a very kind person. He and I did our most to help others. He was a kind family man.

BALDWIN: Rachel Jacobs was CEO of an education software company. She also was the founder of Detroit Nation, a nonprofit that encouraged jobs and economic development to return to her hometown of Detroit. Her family said this about her.

"This is an unthinkable tragedy. She was a wonderful mother, daughter, sister, wife, and friend." Jacobs leaves behind her husband and 2-year-old son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's nothing that I can say that would give adequate verbiage to the kind of person she was. This was an advocate for students. It's been a tremendous career working as a principal.

BALDWIN: Derrick Griffith was a dean at City University of New York Medgar Evers College. He was also the executive director of Groundwork, a nonprofit that supported young people living in high- poverty neighborhoods. He had one teenage son and just earned his doctorate in philosophy last month.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:58:52]

BALDWIN: The NBA playoffs are in full swing. One of the teams in the hunt for the championship includes a player who overcame life- threatening surgery to get back on the court. Here's CNN's chief medical correspondent in this week's "Human Factor."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seeing Memphis Grizzlies star, Jeff Green in action, it's clear he's a player with heart. But in 2011, his game was interrupted.

JEFF GREEN, MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES: I was in complete shock.

GUPTA: A routine team physical revealed an aortic aneurism near the left valve of his heart. Jeff who was 25 at that time needed surgery.

GREEN: It was nerve rocking. I couldn't run. I couldn't touch a basketball. I couldn't get stressed out. It was tough.

GUPTA: And rebounding from open heart surgery, that wasn't easy either. Jeff didn't touch a basketball for nearly six months. He lost muscle and the mechanics of his game. GREEN: It was a slow progression. My body was different. The timing was off. I was fatigued. I wasn't concerned about getting hit. The biggest thing for me was being in the shape and being able to function on the floor.

GUPTA: The experience did give Jeff a greater appreciation for basketball.

GREEN: Now I attack every game as, you know, this could be my last.

GUPTA: It also gave him a greater appreciation for life. He often visits young heart patients to provide encouragement and to compare scars.

GREEN: To see me come back from the heart surgery, see me up there playing, and they look up to that. I look forward to that and, you know, they love it so, you know, I'm going to continue to do it.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)