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New Details on Tuesday's Deadly Amtrak Train Derailment Released; The NFL Players Association Filed Appeal on Patriots Quarterback Tom Brady's Four-game Suspension. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired May 14, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Even today he had a meeting with reporters. He was answering questions from voters. Same goes from yesterday and the day before. He's been doing it for months and months and months and, you know, kind of hasn't really stepped in it the way he did this week. And we have seen other candidates who have been, you know, in the political arena consistently.

Remember, Jeb Bush has been kind of out of it for almost a decade. And they're having missteps as well. So I think that, you know, to be fair, the fact that he gives reporters access, that he gives voters access, the fact that, as you said, you know, he can put himself in a position where a college student, a democratic activist, can go up to him and say, your brother created ISIS, you know.

Let's just hope as reporters this is an objective thing, that that continues and maybe even will sort of push our colleagues on the Democratic side who get to or have to report on Hillary Clinton that they get the same kind of access.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Dana Bash, thank you very much.

BASH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Good to see you.

BASH: You too.

BALDWIN: Next, we'll take you inside the emergency response of this week's fatal train derailment there in Philadelphia. One of the doctors who helped treat the victims joins us to share his experience. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:30] BALDWIN: Let's get back to our breaking story out of Philadelphia. New details surrounding Tuesday's deadly Amtrak train derailment. The investigation is now focused on the train's engineer, Brandon Bastian. His lawyer says Bastian has no recollection whatsoever of what happened as that wreck unfolded. Apparently he lost consciousness in the crash. And he only remembers quote/unquote "coming into the curve, slowing down, and then waking up, turning on his cell phone, and calling 911." The speed, we know Bastian was going more than 50 miles above the

speed limit there. Meanwhile, an eighth body has also been recovered from the wreckage today. And CNN has just confirmed with the family members that Ecolab executive Robert Gildersleeve is among the victims. He's a father of two. He'd been listed as missing. He was traveling to New York on business.

CNN aviation government regulation correspondent Rene Marsh spoke to Amtrak CEO about what the investigation has revealed thus far. He also discussed the company's plan to install positive train control by the federal deadline.

You want to start there, Rene, and explain what that is?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, I do want to start by saying CNN was the first TV news station to get actual access to the crash site. So it was from a different perspective.

What was interesting is the Amtrak CEO, he really pushed back on a couple of things. Number one, he was pretty confident, he says, that the tracks here are in good shape. He also pushed back on these claims that perhaps these tracks here are in deteriorating condition. He says they're very well-maintained tracks. Take a listen to what else he told us just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: You heard the news, 106-mile-per-hours in a 50-mile-per-hour zone. What was your initial feeling?

JOSEPH BOARDMAN, AMTRAK CEO: We knew that was too fast.

MARSH: What do you say to people who say, if it was installed, it could have been prevented this fatal accident?

BOARDMAN: I would say that had it been installed, it would have prevented this accident because that's what I've been saying for a long period of time. We will have positive train control on the northeast corridor section by December 31st.

MARSH: But some -- to push you a little bit, some would say Congress says you have to have it by December 2015. So, you know, you have no choice. So I guess the question is, why wasn't it done -- why isn't it done now? It was an issue of cost? Has it come down to the bottom line?

BOARDMAN: No, it's a time issue and also a cost issue. One of the problems we were having was the particular spectrum of radio that we really need, we had to go buy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: All right. Well, Brooke, we also asked him how confident he is that Amtrak train 188 didn't have any mechanical problems, and he says it will be up to the NTSB to tell them that -- Brooke. BALDWIN: All right. Rene Marsh, glad you got that interview. We'll

look for more that interview later on here on CNN.

But let me bring on an expert voice here. John Robert Smith, former Amtrak board chairman, also chairman of transportation for America.

John Robert, welcome.

JOHN ROBERT SMITH, FORMER AMTRAK BOARD CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon, Brooke. Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: Let's just begin with this engineer on board this train because according to the lawyer, you know, he remembers coming into the curve, attempting to reduce speed, and apparently the last thing he remembers is coming to, looking for his bag, getting his cell phone, turning it on, and calling 911. So the blank spot is after he reduced speed. Apparently doctors are telling them that he will, you know, regain some of what he remembers in time.

My question to you would be, what's your response to that, and when that happens, what questions will be, should be asked of him?

SMITH: Well, I certainly can't comment on the engineer and what he remembers or doesn't remember. Obviously his testimony will be important, but there's plenty of data that can be drawn from the locomotive and the (INAUDIBLE) itself to answer a lot of those questions. And I'm sure that we'll get to the bottom of this.

But I certainly want to express my thoughts to the crew and the passengers and the family, especially those victims who were lost, and this eighth victim and their family. I know the pain and grief that comes from one of those accidents. I was chairman of when the accident in Illinois occurred and Amtrak struck a truckload of steel that was on the crossing. I wrote those letters to the people who suffered from that incident. So it means something very real and genuine to me, and my thoughts are with them.

And when I was chairman of the board of Amtrak, I hired David Gunn as president of Amtrak. David's first priority was getting the railroad in a state of good repair. And that's when we began the installation of positive train control in the northeast corridor, in 1999. And we started with that portion of the corridor that has the highest legal speeds for passenger rail.

The legal speeds there are 100 to 150 miles an hour. You obviously start at the point of greatest risk. And President Joe Boardman, the current president and his team, have worked hard on the continued implementation of positive train control, and it's a complex technology to put in place. You don't go down to the corner of pep boys and buy the stock. You have to build it for that system. And if Joe Boardman and Amtrak tell mess they'll beat the deadline of December, then I'm confident that they will.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you, because when you say positive train control, I mean, I spent half my morning reading about this. For people watching, though, they may have no idea what that is. So let me have you just explain that, what that is, and why in such a busy area, you know, this northeastern corridor, why it was absent on this particular curve.

SMITH: Well, positive train control in its simplest form overrides human error. It is built in along the trackside and on each locomotive so it can begin to slow and stop the train when human error occurs for whatever reasons. Positive train control would obviously have prevented this accident, but even positive train control is not infallible. But it would have probably prevented this accident.

Again, you start with that portion of the railroad where the legal high speeds are in place. You wouldn't start at a slow speed to implement positive train control or put slow section. You'd start where the train is going 150 miles an hour legally. Imagine what that wreck would be like. So it's a very logical way to proceed in the installation of positive train control. And I think they'll have it not only installed by operational shortly.

And part of it is the technology, but the other part is the funding. Keep in mind that the northeast corridor has $20 billion of infrastructure needs today, and that's just replacing civil war bridges and tunnels that are still in operation. And Congress allocates $1.4 billion a year, not millions, $1.4 billion a year to run the entire national passenger rail system. And very little of that actually turns out to be capital investment.

So when you look at the need, you look at the implementation program, and then you look at how passenger rail has been starved for investment for three decades, there shouldn't be any wonder why it takes time to install these kind of safety measures.

BALDWIN: You're a man who would know, sir. John Robert Smith, former Amtrak board chairman, chairman of transportation for America, thank you so much, sir. I appreciate your time today.

SMITH: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Next, it is becoming a key question here in this train derailment with safety technology, as we were just talking about. Would that have made a difference? Obviously he said positive train control could have prevented this. But we want to take you inside a simulator to show you how this works.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:46] BALDWIN: We're definitely hearing from safety officials who are telling us that an automated system definitely could have prevented that fatal train derailment in Philadelphia. A type of system we were just referring to in the last segment is called positive train control.

So what is it? How does it work? CNN's Paul Vercammen takes us inside a train simulator at Los Angeles metro link to show us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So you're that engineer. You're coming into a curve. It seems a little bit hot. What is it telling you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. So right now my train speed is 62 miles an hour. We're going to shortly -- momentarily be coming into a zone. It's going to ask, it say, give me a warning saying you need to brake and reduce your speed. And then it will give me a certain time limit to do be able to do it. See now, I'm getting a warning now. It's saying I have 29 seconds to bring my speed down. If I don't do it, to bring my speed down to 20 miles an hour, the PTC system will take over.

Then what happens is the engineer no longer controls the train at that point. The PTC system controls the train and brings it to a complete and safe stop. The dispatching center is notified that there has been a PTC action that's occurred. And then the engineer will need to have clearance from dispatch in order to restart that train safely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, a man who helped treat some of those crash victims. He's Doctor Gerald Wydro, chair of emergency medicine at Area health.

Doctor, welcome.

GERALD WYDRO, TREATED TRAIN CRASH VICTIMS: Thank you very much.

BALDWIN: Let me just begin here with I know, you know, we heard from the director at Temple hospital, who said a lot of the victims, he was surprised there wasn't more head trauma. He did talk about rib injuries. He talked about victims suffering injuries after being hit by bodies that became projectiles. Is that consistent with what you've seen?

WYDRO: Yes. I mean, what we saw was a wide variation of injuries. Everything from very minor things such as abrasions, contusions, and minor fractures, to more serious injuries to the chest, the abdomen, and some head injuries as well.

BALDWIN: What are some of the injuries you're still treating?

WYDRO: So initially about 30 patients came into our -- a total of 56 came to our two campuses. About 30 came to our trauma center. Of those, six people were admitted in varying degrees of severity. Right now still four patients are admitted in our facility.

[15:50:09] BALDWIN: You know, I was talking to a transportation expert yesterday. And I asked a really simple question. And I said, you know, why aren't there seatbelts on trains? It is something that, you know, I've been wondering. And I'm wondering based upon injuries you've seen, would that have even helped?

WYDRO: I think when we spoke to the patients who were able to talk to us, they all gave a very similar story, that as the train started to turn over, they were flying all around the cabin of the vehicle. So I think just like a motor vehicle accident, when people have a rollover accident, certainly being restrained in not going around the inside of the cabin can only help with the severity of injury.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about the engineer here. We've heard from his lawyer. He said, the engineer, the person that drives the train, he suffered a concussion. He doesn't remember,. He remember he is approaching the curve and then, you know, doesn't remember anything after that and came to, went to his bag, pulled out his cell phone, which apparently was turned off and called 911. Apparently his doctors are saying, you know, listen in time your memory will come back. Is that the case, and how is that?

WYDRO: Well, certainly patients after any close head injury can have varying degrees of amnesia. And that amnesia can last a short period of time or can last much longer. Probably no one can predict exactly how long the amnesia will be. But it's none uncommon to see people in the setting of a closed head injury to have some loss of memory, especially right around the time of the injury.

BALDWIN: All right, Dr. Gerald Wydro, chair of emergency medicine in area health, thank you so much. And thank you for all that clearly you've been doing. You and your staff there, in the Philadelphia area. We really appreciate it.

And coming up next here on CNN, before I let you go, we are just now learning of a new development in Tom Brady's suspension. Post- deflategate. We have that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:56:06] BALDWIN: All right. We are just getting this here in the CNN. The NFL players association has just filed an appeal on Patriots quarterback Tom Brady's four-game suspension in the wake of that Ted Wells deflategate report.

So I've got Rachel Nichols on the phone. She is CNN sports anchor and also CNN contributor and sport anchor and used to play ball as well, Coy Wire.

Rachel, let me go to you first. I mean, we know, you know, today was deadline day. I was sort of assumed, right, that they would file this appeal. Can you walk me through the next steps?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN ANCHOR, UNGUARDED WITH RACHEL NICHOLS (via phone): Yes, absolutely. This was expected. The appeal is being bolstered by the players' association. That's important because their lawyer, Jeff Kessler, had a lot of victories against Roger Goodell and the NFL in the past. The NFL now has ten days to set a date for the appeal and most importantly in all of this, is they have ten days to set who will hear the appeal, Brooke.

Now, Roger Goodell himself can hear the appeal or he can designate someone else to hear the appeal. And he is expected to designate someone else. But who will he designate? Is he going to designate someone within the NFL office? He can do that. He can designate someone who was just recently left the NFL office. He had done that before. And those people have tended to rule in the NFL opposite favor, or is he going to do what the NFL players' association has requested, which is what they call a truly neutral arbiter.

Now, in the past the NFL has not fared well when a truly neutral arbiter has been appointed. So the NFL has going to have to decide, do they want take the political hit of appointing someone who is quote "seen at friendly to them" and get the results they want here, or are they going to do the more politic thing and to a truly neutral arbiter. But then (INAUDIBLE) is casting a lot egg on their face, as a neutral arbiter comes back and said, you know what, we don't think there is quite enough evidence here. And that suspense is repealed, what's that going to look like? So a lot of questions still to come.

BALDWIN: OK. So I'm listening to you, Rachel. And Coy, to you sort of just spring-boarding off that. Because you know, when I think of Roger Goodell, and even if there is this, you know, sort of independent designee, this is their precious, you know, knowing the Patriots franchise. They just won the super bowl. You know, Goodell is pretty tight with Bob Kraft, the owner of the Pats. I'm wondering to you, how do up see this playing out even if there is this mutual designee?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Well, it is a great point, Brooke. And not to mention Goodell is also paid by Robert Kraft and the 31 other NFL owners. So there's that.

You know, the one thing that I think people are talking about is Harold Henderson who is also associated and affiliated with the league. He has heard some cases in the past before.

The one thing that stood out to me, Brooke, was that a couple hours before the announcement of the appeal by the NFL P.A., the Patriots hired a Boston attorney to come in and -- and release a rebuttal to the Wells report and all that was in the Wells report and a couple things jumped out. They're really digging into the science that was involved in deflategate, with the deflation of the footballs. And they are also justifying the communications, the increase in communications between Tom Brady and Jim McNally and John Jastremski. There, just days after the AFC title game.

So it is looking like those are a couple big points that are going to come from Tom Brady and his camp in this appeals process.

BALDWIN: All right. Rachel Nichols, you mentioned, you know, the attorney has had success in, you know, other suspensions. I mean, this is the same person who represented ray rice. Correct? Who got his suspension down to two, 20 seconds.

NICHOLS: Yes. And, look, there's a big question, too, of if they go through the appeals process and don't get the result they want, Tom Brady can always do what Adrian Peterson did. Adrian Peterson filed an appeal through it the NFL system. There was an arbiter who is considered friendly to the NFL, he ruled in the NFL favor. Adrian Peterson then went in to actual real court, to federal court and the judge in that case ruled in favor of Adrian Peterson. Now, if Tom Brady going to want to do that? Once you do something like that, you open yourself up to potential discovery, the NFL couldn't force you to turn over those text message, but the judge maybe could. So do you want to go and take that risk? For now they are looking at the appeals process. The report that (inaudible) and the Patriots put out today raises the question are the Patriots going to appeal. They have a different timeline. They have until the end of May . But the question is, are they going to appeal? They put out all of this science today saying, hey, the Wells report was wrong. The most far fetched thing that basically a lot of people had a hard time grasping was that the text messages where (inaudible) the deflator, their claim is that was related to weight loss. So we'll have to see where this goes from here. This sort of goes into the ridiculous a little bit.

BALDWIN: We've got to go. Coy Wire and Rachel Nichols, thank you so much. "The Lead" with Jake Tapper starts now.