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ISIS Declares Victory in Ramadi; U.S. Raid Kills ISIS Commander; FBI Examining Train Windshield; Pope Francis Saints Two Palestinian Nuns; Remembering Jim Gaines. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired May 18, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

A major blow to the coalition fight against ISIS. The terrorist group has now taken over the key city of Ramadi; that's just 80 miles away from Baghdad. Militants have been using armed bulldozers and suicide bombers to push into the city, forcing Iraq troops to retreat.

[09:30:06] Despite ISIS' gains, though, Secretary of State John Kerry says he's confident battle momentum will be reversed. According to state TV, Iraq has called on Iranian-backed militias to try to recapture the town. Officials say more than 500 people have been killed in recent days. So let's bring in CNN's senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh. She's in Beirut to tell us more.

Hi, Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carol, right now the coalition are using air power and certainly have been in the last 24 hours. Nineteen separate airstrikes to try and somehow reverse what ISIS have managed to pull off in Ramadi over the weekend. You mentioned the devastating wave of assault there. Well, equally devastating was the Iraqi military's retreat from that area. They had been holding out for months and questions will now, of course, be asked as pictures emerge to -- of what seems to be some of their most elite divisions pulling back from that town, leaving in their wake some of the most important armor and some supplies of weapon, which will now deeply benefit ISIS. The question will be asked, how did Baghdad and the coalition let this happen?

The U.S. has tried to suggest that Ramadi isn't that important, but it's quite obvious now that that was not really the case then and isn't the case now. It's very close to Baghdad and potentially deeply troubling staging post on any future assaults that ISIS chooses to make on the outskirts of Baghdad. A million people used to live there. One hundred thousand fled in April, 10,000 potentially in the past few days alone. Some of them trapped, trying to flee by ISIS.

This is a terrifying moment in Iraq's history. Recent history, certainly. And one in which the Baghdad government is struggling to find a coherent response to. They've got the Iranian defense minister in Baghdad says Iraqi state TV talking to his counterparts. They're bring out Shia militia potentially to try and fight back, too. But the fear is, it's a Sunni town and the idea of Shia militia have a pretty dreadful human rights track record, in some cases storming in to try and take out ISIS. That could simply foment sectarian hatred and not solve the problem but create a new one instead, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Nick Paton Walsh reporting live from Beirut this morning. Thank you.

But ISIS did have a setback over the weekend. And we have to talk about that. U.S. special forces taking down a notorious ISIS commander, uncovering what could be a treasure-trove of information on how the group operates. The Pentagon says Abu Sayyaf, the so-called money man of ISIS, was among a group of militants killed by the army's elite delta force during a daring weekend raid in eastern Syria. Sayyaf's wife was also captured. She's now being detained in Iraq. The pair are suspected of being involved in ISIS hostage operations. Despite what the Pentagon calls a significant blow to ISIS, though, some are questioning whether putting U.S. troops at risk was worth it. Let's bring in CNN -- CNN's senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns.

Good morning, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

This individual's belief to have been involved in the most important financing arm of ISIS, the oil and gas operations that allows the organization to do all the things it does, so eliminating him is seen as a big disruption to ISIS operations. But more importantly, Delta Force personnel recovered electronic records from the multi-story structure they targeted in the raid. And those records are expected to be very useful in tracking where ISIS is getting its money from. So this is a big moment.

On the other hand, this individual, quite frankly, was not very well known or on the radar. So we don't know all of what U.S. forces knew about him, but it's pretty clear he would have been more valuable if he had been taken alive, Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, Joe, Abu Sayyaf simply means "father of Sayyaf." We don't even know what this man's real name is, right?

JOHNS: Precisely. We don't know his real name. This is an alias. We believe he is a Tunisian citizen. He was a high value target to the U.S. military, very low profile in the world of international terrorism. He's sort of been likened to an accountant who could likely be replaced very easily in the ISIS hierarchy. Nonetheless, getting ahold of those computer records was pretty important and high on the list of things the United States wanted to do, Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, let's focus a little bit on Abu Sayyaf's wife because we really don't know what her real name is either.

JOHNS: Right. This is a woman who is believed to have some connection to ISIS recruitment. So she's a person who's now being held in custody. She may have been involved in human trafficking, you can see there, and believed to have knowledge of ISIS hostage operations. A figure that they could probably learn a lot from, and she was taken alive, so she's likely to get a lot of questions from the United States government.

[09:35:02] COSTELLO: All right, Joe Johns reporting live from Washington, thanks so much.

Want to talk more about this operation with CNN global affairs analyst and former U.S. Delta Force command, Lieutenant Colonel James Reese.

Thanks for joining me.

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: OK, so can you tell us a little bit about how this operation went down?

REESE: Sure. Well, first off, let's make sure everyone understands, when the Joint Special Operations Command goes up the chain of command and the president says execute, they want to do this. This is not for fun and games. They're going to do this. They feel that they have a strong intelligence-driven operation to base this, to do it long range in-fill (ph) to conduct this operation.

So this is why they did it. They wanted to get in there and do it. They've been -- we've been doing this since 2001. And when we were in Iraq, we did this 10, 11 times a night. Now that we've lost our home- field advantage, now we have to do these longer range in-fills to do it. But to take down ISIS, this is what we have to do.

COSTELLO: Yes, yes, but -- but some people are saying, you know what can happen if something goes wrong, one of our great Delta Force soldiers, right, will be captured by ISIS. He'll appear in this orange jump suit, star in a propaganda video. Is it worth it?

REESE: Well, let me ask you this. We pay millions of dollars, you as a taxpayer, to train these guys. They're -- they're like being the New York Yankees. Shall we dress them in a tutu now, bring them back to the United States and let ISIS come to us? We need to take the fight to the enemy. This is what we -- this is what we pay JSOC to do. And this is what we expect. It's always dangerous. And could that happen? It could be. But the chances -- these guys are so well trained, the chances are lower, that's why it needs to be done.

COSTELLO: We -- so we know so little about how Delta Force operates. So how many Delta Force soldiers were involved, do you think?

REESE: Well, I can't tell you that, OK? I can't tell you that.

COSTELLO: Or you'd have to kill me. No, I'm just kidding.

REESE: I can't tell you that. But I will tell you it's -- every operation is formed to bring the most efficient aspect to the battlefield to get the job done with the least risk to the force, all right? But one of the other aspects right now is, is it's just not the operators on the ground. It's this interagency force that we have formed after 9/11 throughout the intelligence committee and bringing in this element, this exploitation capability, which really becomes the main effort is how quickly we can exploit intelligence on the target, back in the air, and then back at the base to drive us to other targets so we can get inside the enemy, ISIS' decision-making processes.

COSTELLO: Well, this was a very tricky operation because some of the reports I have read is that the Delta Forces guys had to shoot around -- like I guess the ISIS terrorists were hiding behind women hostages --

REESE: Sure.

COSTELLO: Or their wives or girlfriends or whomever.

REESE: Right.

COSTELLO: So they sort of had to work around that.

REESE: Absolutely. Again, that's what we train these guys to do. There's three elements to these raids, surprise, speed and bounce of action. When you come in with aircraft, you take away the element of surprise. So these guy, when they hit the ground, they want to close with the enemy as fast as they can. It's -- imagine this, end zone to end zone, it's a kickoff and all of a sudden, nine seconds later, it's over with. That's what it looks like it happens so fast. And when they close with the enemy, their ability to shoot, discriminate surgically, shoots the bad guys, eliminates noncombatants and there will separate everyone out.

COSTELLO: So, Abu Sayyaf, this, you know, the main target, he's dead right now. They've got his wife. So how valuable is that?

REESE: I believe it's very valuable. We saw, again, in Iraq, in other places where we're doing these operations around the world, that the folks that are close to these so-called high value targets, they know information, OK? My wife knows who I hang out with, who I'm drinking beers with, who I'm doing business dealings with. So that's why they bring this exploitation team and start working with her and see what we can pull out of her.

COSTELLO: Lieutenant Colonel Reese, thanks for your insight. I appreciate it, as always.

Tonight, CNN will take a unique look inside ISIS, who are they, what do they want. Fareed Zakaria hosts "Blindsided: How ISIS Shocked the World." That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, could a crack in this windshield hold the key to what happened in that Amtrak derailment? FBI officials will be examining the glass in an attempt to found out. We'll talk about that, next.

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[09:42:35] COSTELLO: The FBI now joining the NTSB in its investigation into that deadly Amtrak derailment near Philadelphia. Today the agency is expected to be on the scene to take a close look at the train's windshield. You see it there. Specifically whether this mark, see the round mark there, whether that mark was made by a projectile or possibly a bullet. Joining me now to talk about this, former NTSB managing director Peter Goelz.

Welcome, Peter.

PETER GOELZ, FORMER NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So in looking at that mark on the windshield of that Amtrak train, what do you think?

GOELZ: Well, the NTSB has walked back any suggestion that it's a bullet. It could easily be a stone or some other -- something else thrown at the train. It's reported fairly regularly, a few times a month, that Amtrak and commuter trains get hit by these kinds of things. So it could -- it could have occurred.

COSTELLO: And supposedly it occurred -- it happened to two other trains around the same time in that same area.

GOELZ: Right.

COSTELLO: And we have pictures of those trains as well. One was a Septa train, one was an Acella (ph). So what does that tell you as an investigator?

GOELZ: Well, I mean, it certainly would not have caused -- you know, it's not a major cause of this tragedy. But if it happened as the, you know, the engineer was entering the curve, it could have served, along with other things, as a distraction to him where he lost his situation awareness for just a few seconds and then all of a sudden realized he was entering the turn at a far excessive speed. Could it be a contributing factor, perhaps, but I don't think it's going to be a major part of the investigation.

COSTELLO: Could it be a reason for that strange acceleration, you know, just as that train approached the curve?

GOELZ: No, it wouldn't -- it wouldn't have been. I mean that -- the data recorder on the train is pretty clear that that acceleration was a manual one done by the engineer. The question is, is he going to be able to regain his memory and how -- clarify what he was thinking, what he was doing in the 20 or 30 seconds prior to entering that curve where he should have been slowing down from a speed of an excess of 70 miles an hour to 50 wherein fact he was speeding up.

[09:45:11] COSTELLO: You know, I guess on a positive note, Amtrak is going to install those speed controls and that's a good thing, right?

GOELZ: Well, they said they are going to unveil them this week and that trains will, starting this week, have positive train control. And I do think that that's an interesting area to examine, particularly the role of the Federal Communications Commission. They control the spectrum, and this system needs spectrum to function. It needs it across the country. And I think the record's going to show that they did not act in a timely way on helping the railroads get this system up in place, not only in the northeast corridor but across the country.

COSTELLO: We'll see if any changes will be made. Peter Goelz, thanks as always. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a surprise move from the Pope? He just declared saints. Why that's getting worldwide reaction.

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COSTELLO: In a religious and possibly political gesture, Pope Francis canonizes two Palestinian nuns, the women becoming the first Palestinian saints of modern times.

[09:50:00] Thousands of worshippers packing St. Peter's square celebrate on Sunday. All of this comes as the Pope called Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas a quote, "angel of peace". If that weren't enough, last week, the Vatican announced it would officially recognize Palestinian statehood.

Oren Liebermann is in Jerusalem with the reaction over there. Good morning. What has been the reaction?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in terms of Palestinian nuns, that's been positive for everybody here, positive for Christians and Palestinians in the Holy Land. It's been a point of pride, a day of celebration for them. But a very different story when you're talking about Vatican recognition of a Palestinian state and Pope Francis calling Mahmoud Abbas a, quote, "angel of peace".

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said they're disappointed in those decisions, and they say those sort of statements, those sorts of actions, encourage unilateral actions by the Palestinians, which is to say, encourage the Palestinians to go to the U.N. and the ICC instead of bilateral actions, instead of peace talks and peace negotiations.

But Palestinian leaders say they've been frustrated over years with the lack of progress in peace talks and they see these move to the U.N., to the ICC, statements by the Vatican, as the best way right now to achieve Palestinian statehood. Carol?

COSTELLO: So is it possible that the Pope's actions and his words might bring about Middle East peace? And I laugh even as I ask you that question, Oren.

LIEBERMANN: Well, it's a lofty goal but I think the -- although there has been some disappointment in the Pope stepping out of the religious sphere and entering into the political sphere, he did that a year ago when he was here. And that was seen as a largely successful visit by all sides. He encouraged peace talks; he encouraged both sides to come together, get back to the table.

And at least from where we're sitting here, it's part of growing international pressure on Israel from the U.N., from the EU, from President Barack Obama, to get back to peace talks, back to negotiations. So it could very well be that Pope Francis will play his small part, a part, in bringing back negotiations and perhaps finding a two-state solution here.

COSTELLO: And I only laugh because no one has been able to bring about peace in the Middle East.

A final question for you, the Catholic Church has a good relationship with their Jewish counterparts. Will this affect that relationship?

LIEBERMANN: Over the long run, my sense is probably not. As you said, the relations are good. And this is a moment of tension here, but especially when the Pope was here a year ago, he met with both sides. The relations are good. They've been strong over the last few years. So this may be a small road bump but, as I said, relations are generally good and ,from where I'm sitting, I expect them to stay that way.

COSTELLO: All right. Oren Liebermann reporting from Jerusalem this morning. Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, can today's high-tech passenger jets get hacked? The FBI is investigating a man who says he took control of a plane in midflight. We'll talk about that next.

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[09:56:30] COSTELLO: Three more Amtrak crash victims will be laid to rest today. Next hour in Detroit, funeral services begin for Rachel Jacobs, a 39-year-old CEO of a technology company. She's survived by her husband and 2-year-old son.

At noon in New Jersey, Bob Gildersleeve's wife and two children will say good-bye to the eighth and last victim to be pulled from the crash wreckage. Funeral for Jim Gaines, a journalist at the Associated Press, will also begin this New Jersey.

CNN's Jason Carroll has more for you.

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JACQUELINE GAINES, WIDOW OF AMTRAK CRASH VICTIM: He just loved to hug. He just gave hugs and always had a smile on his face and would drop anything he could to help somebody.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His hugs, his compassion for others, are just some of the things Jim Gaines' family will miss now that he's gone.

GAINES: Well, I just feel completely blessed and I thank God that he gave me time with him. Because he taught me and I think he'll still teach me. He left a good imprint on the world and that's a good thing.

CARROLL: Gaines was heading home from a meeting in Washington, D.C., Tuesday night on Amtrak 188. His family, his wife, Jacqueline, and their two children, Oliver and Anuska, had hoped he would be one of the survivors. But it was not to be.

GAINES: If there were any words to describe him, I would say probably the adjectives I would use would be he is kind. He's humble. He is a family man.

CARROLL (on camera): How do you explain to the children? How do you try to come to some sort of understanding in terms of what's happened?

GAINES: That's a tough one. We've been talking about it at home and talking about how God, you know, we all have missions in this world. We come with a mission. We come with work to do. And when it's fulfilled, then we're released from our daily tasks and we have more work to do somewhere else. So he got promoted.

CARROLL (voice-over): Gaines joined the Associated Press in 1998 where he was a video software architect. Next month, the Gaines were to celebrate their 26th wedding anniversary -- so many memories and so many years of happiness.

(on camera): I know when two people are bonded, spiritually and in other ways, and then that's separated, it's a lot to try to come to terms with.

GAINES: Yes, it is. I -- you know, he was my spiritual support. He was my -- he's definitely my soulmate. I know he's still here and I keep asking him to guide me and -- sorry. You know, I sit and talk with him all the time. I can hear him guide me. And I don't know. I don't know how I'm going to deal with it. I don't know.

CARROLL (voice-over): Still questions about what caused the train to derail. Who, if anyone, was at fault? For now, Gaines is not looking for those answers.

GAINES: Whatever explanation the city can give, or the company, it doesn't matter. I think it's -- at this point, you know, that's not something I'm concerned about because he's gone.

[10:00:05] You know, I'm sure once we get past the initial shock of all of this, we'll want to know some answers and have some details, but will it bring him back? Of course not. So I'm just more concerned about our kids.

CARROLL: Gaines, who always gave so much of his heart to others, his coworkers now wanting to give back to his family. They've set up a memorial fund for his two children.

GAINES: The fact that we know that they're thinking of Jim and his kids is just -- it gives me a sense of (INAUDIBLE). I just feel the compassion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)