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Rand Paul Takes Aim at Patriot Act; U.S. Releases ID of ISIS Commander Killed in Raid; ABC Anchor Tied to Second Clinton Group; "David Letterman Says Goodnight" Airs Tonight on CNN. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired May 19, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:50] SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes. They're wrong.

I mean the privacy commission recently came out and originally the government said 52 people have been captured through this bulk collection of records. When the privacy committee looked at this and then with the senate committee looked at this, they found nobody that was actually captured by the bulk collection of records.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: So with me now to talk about this and more, "New York Times" op-ed columnist Ross Douthat and Democratic strategist, Hilary Rosen. Welcome to both of you.

ROSS DOUTHAT, NEW YORK TIMES: Good morning.

HILARY ROSEN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Hey, Carol.

COSTELLO: And Jeff is with me, too.

So Hilary I'll pose this first question to you. Rand Paul does not like NSA snooping into phone records so he says he will filibuster that Section 215 of the Patriot Act on the Senate Floor when it expires at the end of the month. Will that register with voters?

ROSEN: Well, the Patriot Act has always been controversial. And, you know, there are a lot of civil liberties groups that have objected to it. I think that the government has learned ever since the whole Snowden thing that they have to be more transparent about the value of the powers that they have. And so I think it's going to be an interesting, healthy debate.

COSTELLO: It's going to be an interesting, healthy debate especially if Rand Paul is debating his fellow Republicans, right, because Senator Lindsey Graham came out with quite a statement when talking about the Patriot Act and the NSA and possibly going to a judge to get a warrant before he investigates someone who is suspicious.

Let's listen to what Senator Graham said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: If I'm president of the

United States and you're thinking about joining al Qaeda, or ISIL -- anybody thinking about that? I'm not going to call a judge. I'm going to call a drone and we'll kill you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ok. So Ross, that's a lot more clear than talking about section 215 of the Patriot Act.

DOUTHAT: There might be some constitutional issues there. The constitution might perhaps protect people's right to think about joining ISIS without being droned. But Graham has a way of coming out with one liners that always sound vaguely like he's planning to set up a military dictatorship which I guess is part of his charm as a candidate.

I think Paul is walking an interesting line here though. The mood in the Republican Party has clearly gotten more hawkish overall on military issues, foreign policy issues with Putin's adventuring in Ukraine, the rise of ISIS and so on. And there Paul seems a little more out of step with the party's base than he would have been two years ago.

I'm less sure on civil liberties. I think that an issue like the NSA, wiretapping, that kind of stuff, it's a place where Paul sort of needs to rally libertarians in order to have a coalition of any kind in the primaries. I think it makes sense for him to pick these kind of fights especially when he's got as a foil, you know, generally some of Graham over there.

COSTELLO: It is exactly.

ROSEN: It is interesting, you know. It is interesting, Carol, that when the GOP candidates sort of poll their base what they come up with is that there's a very strong interest in foreign policy. Some of that obviously is, you know, their unhappiness with what they perceive Barack Obama's policy to be.

You know, for Democrats for the most part are really talking about economic issues and that's what Hillary Clinton has been focusing on. And I think it's in large part because Democrats are confident that in Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee, they have a candidate who has excellent foreign policy credentials, who has the skill to manage those global crises whereas Republicans really still have to prove themselves.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Jeff -- I want to go back to Jeff -- I want to go back to Jeff for a second to talk about what you said. Because Hillary Clinton may have great foreign policy credentials but she's not talking about them at all. I don't know she's not taking any hard questions about her foreign policy, Jeff Zeleny.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right she's not. I mean there's no question, Hilary is right. She has, you know, a lot of experience in the foreign policy realm as a senator and as secretary of state but she's not answering questions about what she would do going forward with ISIS, with all the violence we're seeing in Iraq right now.

At some point she's going to have to answer those questions and she knows that. This is not a surprise to her. Look, she ran for president once before. She's clearly doing things her way this time trying to control her message as long as she can. But it's Iowa voters who also and voters everywhere who also want to hear specifics from her.

But I have no doubt that she will talk about foreign policy. She'll use that as one of the biggest differences between her and whoever her Republican rivals are. That's what she was talking about exactly during the house party yesterday. She said it's not easy to give answers. She has experience.

COSTELLO: All right. I'm going to have to leave it there because I have breaking news to get to. I so apologize. Hilary Rosen, Ross Douthat, Jeff Zeleny -- thanks to all of you.

I do have some breaking news to share about that ISIS commander killed in this past weekend's raid. Barbara Starr has got the latest. We know him by Abu Sayyaf. What's his real name, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Carol -- just a short time ago a U.S. official gave CNN what they now believe is the real name of the ISIS commander they killed over the weekend. Let me read it to everybody. And then let's talk about it.

[10:35:07] According to the Obama administration, the real name of this man is Fathi Ben Awn Ben Jildi Murad el Tunisi. Now what does this mean to most of us -- the name? This guy apparently had a number of aliases, a number of nom de guerre's, if you will, names of war that he used. But a U.S. official saying after looking at all of this, these aliases for the last several days, they believe this is now his real name. This is the name they settled on.

It has been a very sensitive matter for the intelligence community because, remember, this guy not very well known outside of ISIS and perhaps U.S. intelligence circles so how they came by the name appears to be quite a sensitive matter.

Let's be clear. We still only really know what the administration has been telling us: that this man is a top commander in the ISIS organization; was in Syria until he was killed; was in charge of oil and gas financing; had taken on an increasing role in ISIS operations, military planning, and perhaps most sensitive they believe he and his wife, who was captured, have or had information about American and western hostages when they were held by ISIS inside Syria.

So the bottom line, U.S. intelligence still going through all of those computers, all those cell phones, all of that intelligence data that they collected in this raid to see what they can find out about this guy.

The name al-Tunisi at the end tells us perhaps, perhaps, he is of Tunisian origin. But I have to tell you, there are a lot of aliases and fake names, if you will, amongst the ISIS leadership. So still what needs to be done is to go through all of those names and figure out a bit more precisely where this very unknown person that we first came to know over the weekend as Abu Sayyaf, where he really fits in the organization.

COSTELLO: Barbara Starr reporting live from the Pentagon. Thank you. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:33] We are still waiting for an update from Waco police on the deadly biker brawl but we are hearing this. A judge says that everyone arrested after the brawl -- that would be more than 170 people -- all 170 people will be processed within the hour. Each one of those people arrested faces $1 million bail.

We'll keep you posted.

In other news this morning, sexual assault in the military -- surviving the trauma is just the beginning. The Department of Defense estimates that 62 percent of service members who report sexual assault experienced retaliation.

Miranda Peterson, the programs and policy director for Protect Our Defenders Foundation joins me with more on this. Good morning.

MIRANDA PETERSON, PROTECT OUR DEFENDERS FOUNDATION: Good morning. Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Tell me more about the retaliation that women face in the military when they complain of sexual harassment or sexual assault.

PETERSON: Yes. So sexual assault survivors, they are already dealing with assault and the trauma from that but in addition 62 percent are saying that they are facing retaliation and this is not just, you know, hurt feelings because you weren't invited to a party or feeling left out. This is severe retaliation. This is being isolated from your unit, being harassed, being bullied, losing out on promotion opportunities or even being forced out of the military.

So it's very severe. It makes it very difficult to recover from the assault and it often leads to careers being ended.

COSTELLO: I know the military has been trying to solve this problem. Has it made any progress at all in your mind?

PETERSON: I think the numbers speak for themselves. Last year alone 20,000 service members are estimated to have experienced at least one sexual assault. That's just in the last year. And 62 percent continue to say they were retaliated against -- that's the vast majority of survivors. It really speaks to a system that's hostile to sexual assault

victims and unfortunately the military still has a system that really inherently has a bias and a lack of fairness for survivors. A human rights watch report released yesterday showed that sexual assault survivors who face retaliation really have nowhere within the system that they can turn often their complaints are just kicked right back down to the command that maybe condoning or participating in the retaliation that they're facing and that really there's no evidence that anyone has been held accountable who has participated in or helped carry out retaliation against survivors. So unfortunately not much progress from our point of view.

COSTELLO: So among our lawmakers because I know even Senator John McCain has spoke out about this problem, are you getting any help at all from lawmakers in changing legislation that might help assuage this problem?

PETERSON: Yes, there have been efforts in Congress to change the military justice system. Senator Gillibrand has a very common sense measure that would empower military prosecutors to make decisions about what sexual assault cases go to trial. Right now that decision is made by a commander who doesn't have any legal training and may have a personal relationship with the accused and is just inherently biased as a commander of that unit.

So Senator Gillibrand's bill would empower military prosecutors to make that decision. And we believe that that would make it more fair and impartial for all service members who are going through that system.

COSTELLO: Miranda Peterson, thanks so much. I appreciate it. I'll be right back.

PETERSON: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:47:43] COSTELLO: Checking some top stories at 47 minutes past. A live look at Capitol Hill. Lawmakers are focusing right now on police accountability and public safety. The house judiciary committee is examining police practices nationwide in an effort to bridge the divide between officers and their communities.

It's official. President Obama is tweeting. As for his very first tweet, "Hello, Twitter, it's Barack -- really. Six years in they're finally giving me my own account." Not skipping a beat, the former President Bill Clinton tweeted back some fun. Quote, "Welcome to Twitter POTUS, one question, does that user name stay with the office? #askingforafriend."

Alright. George Stephanopoulos -- he has apologized for not disclosing $75,000 in donations to the Clinton Foundation but this morning there are new concerns about just how closely tied to the organization the ABC anchor and chief political correspondent is.

Now there are reports Stephanopoulos is also involved with the Clinton Global Initiative. How?

Let's bring in CNN's senior media correspondent Brian Stelter. It just gets worse.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: For ABC it's not going away -- Carol. I think Stephanopoulos thought this might go away after he apologized and then apologized again but the "Washington Post" this morning is highlighting Stephanopoulos' role with the Clinton Global Initiative. These are the events, the very glitzy events that are held a number of times. There are panel discussions at these events and on-stage interviews and the Post is highlighting how Stephanopoulos has been a panelist sometimes, the interviewer sometimes at these events.

COSTELLO: Doesn't ABC have to give him permission to do that?

STELTER: ABC does. And ABC says in this case, they were well aware of these events. They are public events. So this wasn't so much an issue of disclosure as the donations were. The issue with the donations was that he didn't tell his bosses about them nor did he tell viewers.

It's different when you're a panelist at a Clinton event because it's a public event. It's on camera. Everyone is aware that you're doing it. Obviously other journalists do it as well. Anchors here at CNN and other television networks have also been involved in the Clinton Foundation conferences. The big difference, of course, is none of them have given money to the foundation. That's the key issue for Stephanopoulos. The other key issue, of course, is none of those other anchors, none of those other journalists have ever been employed by Bill Clinton in the past.

[10:49:55] This issue has really brought to the surface something that's been beneath the surface for a long time, which is Stephanopoulos did have that long and key relationship with the Clintons in the 1990s. He worked hard to distance himself from them and to become a journalist and to become a famed television anchor but now all of that's come back to the surface because of these donations.

COSTELLO: So what do you suppose is going to happen?

STELTER: It seems to me that ABC is unwavering in their support of Stephanopoulos. They've invested so much into him over the years. He's one of their biggest stars. And he's not going anywhere.

But it does seem like his ability to cover the election is going to be affected by this. Will he be able to moderate any debates? Not just a Republican debate but will he be able to moderate a Democratic debate given his ties to the Clintons? Will he be able to cover the election in the way that he was intending to? I think that's an open question in the TV industry even though ABC is saying they fully stand by him. We might see in the future him doing fewer political interviews or doing fewer big political events than he otherwise would have.

COSTELLO: You know what's sad in this, I think people just want transparency. I mean everybody knew Stephanopoulos worked for the Clintons. That's not big secret right?

STELTER: Right.

COSTELLO: People were already aware of that. So why not just come out and be transparent about what you're doing?

STELTER: Well, if you were going to make the donations, which seems like a real mistake, then to not tell viewers about the donations is the bigger mistake. So you pile on a mistake on top of mistake and that does have an impact on credibility. Every time there's a journalistic controversy like one or the one with Brian Williams which is very different or the one with Bill O'Reilly, involving his reporting past -- they're all very different. All very different cases, but each one of them causes people at home to have further doubts about the credibility of all journalists. We have to be trying harder than ever to win people back, not give them reason to mistrust us.

COSTELLO: Brian Stelter, I couldn't agree more. Thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, David Letterman exits the Ed Sullivan Theater this week. We'll talk about what might be his most important legacy next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:32] COSTELLO: After more than 30 years in the spotlight and nearly 6,000 broadcasts, David Letterman is saying "good night" for the last time. Yes tomorrow, the king of late night tapes the last episode of his popular show. During his tenure, the critically acclaimed host took comedy and pop culture to a whole new level with his top ten list and stupid pet tricks but he also had a bit of love/hate relationship with celebrities.

CNN's Jake Tapper reports on tonight's documentary: "DAVID LETTERMAN SAYS GOOD NIGHT". Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I speak to you for a second?

DAVID LETTERMAN, TALK SHOW HOST: Will you people leave me alone? Step on the right, it's tingling. It's tingling. Do you know what that means? It's working. That's what that means.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: David Letterman could seemingly find humor anywhere. By the late 80s, all of cool kids wanted to hang with Dave including fellow comic Jay Leno who had come up with Letterman doing standup in the 70s.

JAY LENO, COMEIDAN: I'm not the kind of guy to brag.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leno was a dream guest. Whatever else was going on in some week or month, we got Leno next Thursday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It led to Jay getting the job as the permanent substitute host for Johnny because he was so good with Dave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here's Jay Leno.

TOM HANKS, ACTOR: You know, we can get in a two-shot deal.

LETTERMAN: We can actually send the crew home.

TAPPER: Movie stars wanted in with Dave, too. But they got no special treatment.

LETTERMAN: You have to turn the pig on. Please welcome Cher.

CONAN O'BRIEN, TALK SHOW HOST: He was suspicious of celebrity. Famously when Cher went on, he was not being the friendly, you're the greatest, you're the best, I love you, you're fantastic, you're Cher. He's prodding.

LETTERMAN: Why finally after nearly four and a half years did you decide to come on?

CHER, SINGER: I thought I would never want to do this show with you.

LETTERMAN: Why? Because you thought I was a --

CHER: An (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

O'BRIEN: And it was like this electric moment. No one called Carson an asshole. First of all, if you did, you would disappear from the face of the earth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I love that. CNN's Jake Tapper joins us now. Should I mention your show is "THE LEAD" and "STATE OF THE UNION"?

TAPPER: Sure.

COSTELLO: Yes. And your special airs at 9:00 p.m. Eastern tonight -- right?

TAPPER: Isn't that just amazing. Like the electricity, the unpredictability of it. That doesn't really happen very often.

COSTELLO: No, there's a lot butt-kissing now.

TAPPER: A lot of butt kissing. And I mean there are other shows that I do remember Kanye going on Jimmy Kimmel not long ago and that was kind of a bizarre scene. But generally --

COSTELLO: Would Kanye actually be a human being with anyone though?

TAPPER: Generally speaking that kind of disdain that Letterman had for some celebrities, the kind of friction that you saw there really was revolutionary at the time. You didn't see that. COSTELLO: No. And it forced the celebrities to be real people

and perhaps say something meaningful.

TAPPER: Yes. Well, that was the thing according to Paul Schaefer, who we interviewed for this as well, Letterman, this was a job. The job was entertaining people. Come to the table with stories to tell, with entertaining things and if you didn't, then he was going to make it entertaining one way or another.

COSTELLO: I think what I'll miss most about David Letterman is his cynicism. Because he did make you think even with his opening monologue. It wasn't all tea and flowers right. He was biting.

TAPPER: No, he was dark especially in those early couple of decades. He had a very dark view of the world. In fact, Steve O'Donnell, one of his head writers who we saw in that clip, talks about Letterman sitting at a table during commercial breaks writing over and over, "I hate myself, I hate myself." He's since I think gotten a lot more content especially with the birth of his son, Harry, but also with meditation and medication and therapy. But that edge that you saw in the first if you decades, that was legit.

COSTELLO: Although I just read an article about his retirement and he was quoted as saying he's afraid. He doesn't know what to do with himself. Like the dark days are to come for David Letterman still.

TAPPER: Well, it used to be that he was only happy one hour a day and that was during the taping of his show. Now he's said to be a happier person but he's still a relatively young man who still lives and loves to get people laughing.

COSTELLO: I can't wait to watch the special.

TAPPER: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks so much, Jake, for stopping by. I appreciate it. "DAVID LETTERMAN SAYS GOOD NIGHT" airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

[11:00:04] Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Bracing for -