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Clinton Wealth "A Problem"; Hunter Pays $350K to Kill Endangered Black Rhino; David Letterman Signing Off After 33 Years. Aired 10:30-11a

Aired May 20, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:48] SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Hi, Carol. Thanks for having me.

I do think it's tone-deaf comments like that one from Bill Clinton that are going to make this so much harder for Hillary. When you see Bernie Sanders, when you see Elizabeth Warren who isn't even in this race, they clearly want to push Hillary Clinton further to the left and they want to make this an election about income inequality.

And so she's going to have to find a better way to sort of answer these questions about her wealth. Let's take a look at how she tried to diffuse this issue yesterday in Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, obviously Bill and I have been blessed and we're very grateful for the opportunities that we had but we've never forgotten where we came from and we've never forgotten the kind of country that we want to see for our granddaughter and that means that we're going to fight to make sure that everybody has the same chances to live up to his or her own God-given potential.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, I think if the Clintons can stick to this message, this idea that they didn't come from very much but they have been able to have these successes and they've grown to where they are now and they want those kind of opportunities for all Americans, they're going to have a much better shot at sort of putting out this fire.

But they're going to have to be smarter about how they address it. They can't be running around saying things like they need to give these speeches to pay the bills when they obviously are already very wealthy -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Sara Murray, thanks so much. We're going to talk more about this because the wealth question sort of feels like deja vu all over again doesn't it, except the wealthy fat cat isn't a Republican, it's a Democrat this time around.

With me now: CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp and Democratic strategist Jamal Simmons. Thanks to you both for joining me.

JAMAL SIMMONS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So S.E., Hillary Clinton is wealthy. So was Mitt Romney. Is there a difference in their empathy factor?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENATOR: I don't think most Americans have a problem with wealth. Most Americans are aspirational and the problem for Hillary Clinton despite what Bernie Sanders says is not the fact that she's wealthy. It's the fact that -- two things. There's a lack of transparency around her business dealings for politics and her wealth, her personal wealth. And people don't really understand how money is coming in and where it's going to if there's influence peddling and that would be helpful.

And this idea that somehow she's a millionaire and is still a common person -- and I think people don't believe that. They don't think that's genuine. She should just sort of accept the fact that she's a very wealthy person. She's also a very famous person. And stop trying to pretend that she's untouched by all of that. She's not.

And being wealthy is absolutely fine, you know, but you have to make a distinction between what is your politics, what is your business, what is your charity and what is your personal life. And I think people are very unclear about that.

COSTELLO: So Jamal, do you agree? Because Hillary Clinton seemed to give like a fine answer to that -- she acknowledged her wealth. But says, you know, I still maintain those middle class values I grew up with.

SIMMONS: Listen, the Clintons are rich. Most Americans don't have a problem with people getting rich. Most Americans want to get rich themselves. On this point I agree with S.E. They're aspirational.

Here's the difference between Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney. It's a mindset. Hillary Clinton -- they always think of themselves as scrapping because that's what they did in order to get to where they are. Mitt Romney comes from generational wealth. Even that's not really a problem. Look at somebody like John Kennedy -- right, like he was a wealthy Democrat and people trusted him.

The real question voters have is, you know, Janet Jackson used to have a song "What Have You Done for Me Lately?" Voters are even worse. They want to know, what are you going to do for me now? Right. And so they want to know like what does Hillary Clinton want to do to take the country to a better place? And if they agree with that, they'll vote for her. And if they don't agree with that, they don't trust her to do it, they won't vote for her.

And I think that's really the question on the table. She has to lay out her vision for America and I think we're still waiting on that.

COSTELLO: So S.E., what does she say because the wage gap is going to be a big thing this time around -- right. So what if she says something. You know, I'm wealthy and I need to be taxed more because the Republican candidate isn't going to say that. Would that matter to middle class Americans?

CUPP: I think Americans are a little weary of the idea that taxing the wealthy and then redistributing that wealth is somehow going to trickle down. We've seen those policies for the past two terms, the past six, almost seven years now. Income inequality has widened. Poverty has worsened. So I think people are a little skeptical of that as the sell.

And so I think when Bernie Sanders says it or if Hillary Clinton finally comes out and lays out some policy, I think people are going to want a little bit more behind that idea. It just hasn't played out the way the Democrats have thought -- raising the minimum wage, taxing the wealthy just isn't the economic panacea that Democrats would have you believe.

COSTELLO: And in fairness Jamal, the economy is getting better. But the wage gap still persists and the Obama administration and the Democrats haven't been able to solve that problem.

SIMMONS: Well, it's true. Although they've solved a lot more than the Republicans did. I mean the President's gotten the unemployment rate down, he's gotten more people back to work. Now you're starting to see wages creep up. But what people really want to know --

CUPP: Jamal poverty has worsened. Income inequality has widened. How have they solved it more? It has worsened.

SIMMONS: Well, I think what they're doing is if you take a look back to where we were in 2008 and 2009 when we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs every month and now we're gaining 100,000 -- 200,000 every month.

[10:35:07] I think Americans feel better about what's happening in the economy than not. But what they want to do, they want to get a better house, they want to get a better school, they want to get a better job. And that's where Hillary Clinton's magic is. She has to be able to tell them how she's going to help them do that.

And then I don't think most Americans don't want to punish rich people. They just want to figure out how they or their children can do better in this life and that's what Democrats have to get back to.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Thanks to you both -- S.E. Cupp, Jamal Simmons -- I appreciate it.

CUPP: Thanks.

SIMMONS: Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

The Republican field is packed and voters don't seem to mind. According to a new Pew Research poll, 57 percent of Republican and Republican-leaning voters say they have an excellent or good impression of their party's presidential candidates. And that optimism holds strong when compared to the last two elections. In 2011, only 44 percent of Republicans viewed the field of GOP candidates as excellent or good. And in 2007, only 50 percent did.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a Texas hunter bids $350,000 to hunt down and kill a black rhino but he insists he's only trying to save the endangered animals. CNN cameras were there for this controversial hunt -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: I want to tell you now about a story that's a causing a lot of controversy. A Texas man has received intense criticism, even death threats, for bidding more than a quarter of a million dollars to hunt down an endangered black rhino in Africa. The kill is legal. But it certainly sparked outrage. That's because there are only 5,000 African black rhinos left on earth.

I want to warn you that you may find some of what you're about to see disturbing.

CNN's Ed Lavandera was the only reporter to go on this hunt. He joins us live now. Good morning.

[10:40:03] ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.

Well, here in the country of Namibia, poaching of black rhinos has spiked dramatically. 24 killed by poachers last year; this year already, that number is up to 60.

The Namibian government doesn't have a lot of money to fight these poachers and Corey Knowlton (ph) is hoping that's why he bid $350,000 and the Namibian government says that money will go to fighting these poachers and that's why Corey Knowlton hopes that that will make a difference for the future of this species.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: Three days of hunting a black rhino through the unforgiving desert brush of northern Namibia ended here. And Corey Knowlton has no regrets.

COREY KNOWLTON, HUNTER: I'm pretty emotional right now to be honest.

LAVANDERA: You've been heavily criticized for doing what you just did. Do you still feel that what you did is going to benefit the black rhino in the future?

KNOWLTON: 100 percent. I felt like from day one it was benefiting the black rhino. I'll feel like that until the day I die.

LAVANDERA: Knowlton granted CNN exclusive access into this controversial hunt for the black rhino, one of the most endangered species in the world. He won the license to hunt the rhino in an auction last year.

There are so many people who think that what you're doing out here is barbaric and that you don't care about this black rhino.

KNOWLTON: Nobody in this situation with this particular black rhino put more value on it than I did. I'm absolutely hell bent on protecting this animal.

LAVANDERA: Knowlton has received death threats and scathing criticism. Some animal welfare groups call conservation hunting a horrific idea.

AZZEDINE DOWNES, INTERNATIONAL FUND FOR ANIMAL WELFARE: These are incredibly majestic creatures and their worth alive is far more -- it's far greater than they are dead.

LAVANDERA: In Namibia, the biggest threats to the black rhino are poachers and often the rhinos themselves.

KNOWLTON: I'm Corey. Nice to meet you.

LAVANDERA: Knowlton is told by Namibian government observers to target four specific rhinos considered a high priority threat to the herd. That's the story of this rhino spotted by cameras at a watering hole just before sunrise. Last year it killed another rhino in a gruesome fight.

The hunt begins. The African brush is dense. Knowlton will have a split second to decide whether to pull the trigger.

It would be a catastrophic mistake for Corey if he were to shoot the wrong rhino, one that is not on the list of eligible rhinos to be taken out of the herd.

Local trackers pick up the rhino's footsteps and walk deeper into the brush.

KNOWLTON: This was the angry one that's already killed another one. So he's likely just going to get up and come so we need to be ready.

LAVANDERA: Silence is crucial. Trackers direct Knowlton and his Namibian hunting guide with hand signals. We get closer and in an instant, the rhino flashes before us.

The rhino moves around us but he's invisible, silent. A nearly 3,000-pound beast that can move like a ghost in the brush until it decides to charge. We don't see him until he's 30 feet away, charging right at us. I have to dive below Knowlton's high powered rifle.

A short while later, the rhino is dead.

As we sit here at this moment and take it all in and we think about what the biggest threat to these rhinos are around the world and it's poachers, people who will kill these animals and leave them to rot in this fields of Africa just for these horns. These horns that you see here will sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars on the black market.

Corey Knowlton knows this isn't easy to watch but he vows to take the abuse of his critics to convince the world that conservation hunting can help save the black rhino.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Ok. So Ed, I have two questions. Number one: why didn't the government take care of this? Why did he pay $350,000 to hunt down this rhinoceros? I just don't -- I don't get it.

I don't get it. And what happens to the horns from that rhino. Where do they go?.

LAVANDERA: I can handle both of those.

These are rare permits that are auctioned off or awarded by the country of Namibia. It's raised more than a million dollars since they started doing this back in 2009. And it's very rare. This is only the seventh time that this permit has been issued and used.

[10:45:10] And so they use that as a way of raising money to fight the poaching. They have very low funds and being able to fight poachers. In fact the ministry of environment and tourism was talking this week about needing more funds and more ability to get intelligence on these poaching teams that work throughout the country.

And as I mentioned at the beginning, poaching numbers have spiked dramatically -- 24 in all of last year; already 60 in the first five months of this year.

And as far as horn in this particular case, Corey Knowlton, he's a trophy hunter. He will take it home. He's in the process of doing that. He hasn't left the country yet. Obviously it is something that he hasn't decided exactly what he wants to do with it. He talked to me over the last few weeks that one of the things he wanted to do with a lot of his trophies that he hunted over the years is create some sort of a place where kids can go and learn about these animals and that sort of thing. But that's a very early idea.

But he knows there's going to be a great deal of attention paid to this particular trophy when it gets back home in the United States.

COSTELLO: I just wondered if he was going to sell it.

LAVANDERA: No, no. No. Corey Knowlton -- no. In fact, if you asked him, he would -- no. That's not part of any kind of plan that he has for that horn at all. He will take the entire carcass and the horn. It will all be a trophy that he'll keep and do something with back when he gets to the United States.

COSTELLO: All right. Ed Lavandera reporting live this morning -- thanks so much.

I want to know what you think about this story. So go to my Facebook page or tweet me @carolCNN. Facebook.com/CarolCNN is the address of my Facebook page.

I'll be reading your comments later. Thanks so much. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(AUDIO GAP)

[10:51:10] BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: -- at the Ed Sullivan Theater. There will be some ordinary fans in the crowd. Some very lucky people who have tickets to the final episode, but there will be a lot of VIPs as well.

The CEO of CBS will be here, Les Moonves; a lot of his senior executives will be here. They'll be backstage or maybe in the control room watching Letterman do his thing one final time.

But, you now, we're not expecting Jay Leno. There's been a lot of speculation that maybe Letterman's longtime rival would agree to come on the last show, the last "Late Show" with Letterman but no, it turns out Leno did decline. There will be some other A-list guests however.

And at the end of the day, at the end of the night, that is. Letterman will simply sign off. It won't be scripted. It won't be rehearsed. It will just be Letterman saying good-bye.

COSTELLO: So it was Leno who declined the offer?

STELTER: He did. But maybe we will see Kimmel or Fallon or one of the other new late night comedians all of them influenced by Letterman over the years. Maybe we'll see one of them tonight instead.

COSTELLO: All right. Brian Stelter -- many thanks to you.

Joining me now to talk more about Letterman's late night career, "Daily Share" contributor and comedian Chuck Nice and host of "Entertainment Tonight" Nischelle Turner -- thanks to both of you.

So let's talk about that juicy bit of information -- Nischelle. Jay Leno declined but we don't know why.

NISCHELLE TURNER, TV HOST: Now, we don't know why. And you know what, Carol, I actually would be a little disappointed if he did come on the last show. And I tell you why because I feel like this night should be and will be all about Dave.

I think that if Jay was there, then you have all of that other stuff and muck that they've been through and all that and then there's questions and I just think that this should be the night to celebrate Dave and not bring all that other mess into the building.

COSTELLO: I actually think, Chuck, that if Jay Leno came on and kissed David Letterman on the lips it could be funny. CHUCK NICE, COMEDIAN: Yes. And sexy -- not to mention sexy. I

agree with Nischelle. It's about Dave. If I were Jay, I will also decline because it's your day, it's your night. You share that spotlight with no one. Go for it.

COSTELLO: Ok. So let's talk about our favorite moments. Stupid pet tricks was my favorite moment on the Dave Letterman show. What about you -- Chuck?

NICE: I'm going to be very honest right now. I've never watched the show. I'm not a fan of David Letterman. I found him to be a little bit rude when he interviewed people so I don't even know what I'm doing here.

COSTELLO: You are so lying.

NICE: Dave is the best that ever did it. He changed the game. He revolutionized late-night television. He was the first one to go outside of the studio. He was the first one to do these little stunts and things you see on YouTube now, Dave was doing in 1984, ok. And I like -- so many that I like.

Remember the Velcro suit? How cool was that? Whoever thought of that? Look at this. I mean seriously. This is quality television right here. Look at this. Someone come get me.

COSTELLO: I did like when he would dropped objects from far up.

NICE: That's what got me hooked on his show seeing stuff get dropped from the roof.

COSTELLO: What about you Nischelle?

TURNER: I'm going to take the serious moment which was absolutely my favorite moment out of the equation. That was his post- 9/11 monologue because I think that transcends a favorite moment. I think that was one of the best moments in television that we've ever seen.

My favorite moment was the Joaquin Phoenix interview in 2009. It was so awkward and so fantastic and I think one of the times that I've been thousands of miles away from something and I felt -- I was like sweating at home. What is going on here? It was great television. One of my favorite moments ever.

NICE: Nischelle, in my family we call that Thanksgiving dinner. I'll invite you over. You can experience that every single year.

TURNER: I'm there. I am there.

[10:55:00] COSTELLO: Thanks for the fun -- Nischelle Turner, Chuck Nice.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: In California, emergency responders are clearing an

oil spill off the coast of Santa Barbara after a pipeline burst. You can see the dark sludge here on the sand and in the water. The U.S. Coast Guard says the ruptured line belongs to Plains All-American pipeline. The flow of oil has now stopped.

Homes and buildings leveled, a tornado ripping through north Texas leaving scattered debris behind. No reports of injuries so far. Still the tornado tore down power lines, flipped cars and even destroyed a church. Crews are still assessing the damage here.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: In the mind of Osama bin Laden. The U.S. government just released what's described as a treasure-trove of documents all picked up during the 2011 raid of bin Laden's compound. They reveal his continued obsession with attacking Americans but also love letters written to his family.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Does the U.S. need to change -