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Texas Biker Brawl; Senator Rand Paul Filibusters Patriot Act; California Oil Spill. Aired 15-15:30p ET

Aired May 20, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

DEBBIE LEE, MOTHER OF NAVY SEAL KILL IN IRAQ: First time I went was Christmas, and we collected 226,000 Christmas cards, and took over to the troops. Most of them, we mailed to different bases.

But I personally took 10,000 and took them to the troops, loved on them on behalf of America that couldn't be with them. And then I went back in 2010 because I wanted to see the difference. And I did see the difference. Marc talks in that letter about, we will get Iraq to stand on its own two feet.

I had the privilege of seeing that in 2010. I went out on patrol with the 1st and the 4th Cav in 2007 when I was there. I wore the body armor. We were not in places where we were actually being fired on while we were there. But when I went back in 2010, nobody was even going outside the wire because they had stabilized it so well.

And I do believe that, if we would have left a small amount of troops in there to stabilize the area, that we wouldn't see what is happening in Ramadi today. And the push, as they have taken that country -- and I do believe that's their intent, to go into Baghdad, to take Baghdad and eventually take out all of Iraq.

BALDWIN: Right.

LEE: And, if that happens, that changes the Middle East and is strategic for our national security over there. And so I just don't understand why the administration doesn't want to have policies and strategies in place that would let our troops who are the best trained military in the world go in there and do what they do successfully and stabilize that area and take it back and get rid of the terrorists.

BALDWIN: I hear you on your frustrations with policy.

And we're going to have -- I'm going to have an entire conversation about what the U.S. is doing as it pertains to this fight over there. But we talk about Ramadi and the fact that you yourself as a mother went twice, and then you see the black ISIS flag and then you hear the words from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Martin Dempsey. Let me just play -- play that for those who have not seen this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CHAIRMAN: The city itself is -- it's not symbolic in any way. It's not been declared part of the caliphate on one hand or central to the future of Iraq.

But we want to get it back. The issue is not is not brick and mortar. It's about defeating ISIL. So, as I said, this -- you know, I would much rather that Ramadi not fall. But it won't be the end of a campaign should it fall. We have got to get him back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: He said Ramadi as a city is not symbolic, Debbie. How did you take that?

LEE: Again, I felt like I had been betrayed. I felt like it was a sucker punch to my stomach. How they could say not symbolic, not significant, when so much not -- just my son's blood, but so many other died over there, so many of our troops lost body parts over there and were wounded.

And it's very significant, very symbolic. Ramadi mattered enough to them to stay in the fight there and Ramadi matters to those families and to all of our troops who sacrificed greatly there.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: He did apologize? Did he reach out to you?

LEE: He did. I did receive a letter from him and then the next day, I received a phone call as well. And he did apologize.

BALDWIN: Debbie Lee, it is just so important as we continue to tell this story that is ISIS and how the U.S. is -- this coalition fight, it's so important to hear about our nation's heroes and those who have sacrificed and what has happened in recent years as we are mindful in going forward. Thank you so much for your son.

LEE: You bet.

BALDWIN: And, Debbie, I really appreciate it.

LEE: You bet. And we're coming up on Memorial Day, so please folks,, do remember the sacrifices that have been made for our freedoms and make sure we remember Memorial Day is not a day that we celebrate. It's a day that we remember the sacrifices.

BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: We start the next hour here watching CNN. This is breaking news. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We have some news here that the Coast Guard says an oil slick about nine miles long is spreading off the coast of Santa Barbara, California, all of this after a pipeline ruptured, spilling 21,000 gallons of oil into the sea. It is -- sounds like a bit of a mess amidst just absolute beauty here in California.

Paul Vercammen is there along the ocean in Santa Barbara County.

And, Paul, talk about potential environmental damage. All the while, you can -- you say you can see the oil itself lapping up the shores behind you.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We will show to you right now, Brooke.

As you can see, it is now a black, gooey mess. And with each wave that comes in, more tar, more oil is deposited on the shore. I'm here at Refugio State Beach in Santa Barbara County. They were preparing for the big Memorial Day weekend here. It would be sold out. There would be more than 3,000 people coming through these state beaches all along this pristine coast.

And now they have got one colossal mess on their hands. The reason you don't see any workers addressing this right now is because they're on some sort of a break. And the tide also came in. What they were doing earlier, Brooke, is they were grabbing rakes, among other things, wearing protective suits, and raking together all of these balls of tar.

[15:05:19]

Also, out at sea, no ships near me right now, but several of them were taking booms and collecting oil that way and skimming it as best they could. Their fear and concern is it will move further south and east towards the cities of Goleta and Santa Barbara and much more close to here, another state beach, El Capitan.

Right now, this beach completely closed as they try to clean up the mess. And you're talking about the environment. From here, you will see some pelicans. They're zooming across in just a little bit here. You will see seal. We saw a dolphin.

I'm too far away to notice if any of them were coated in oil, but the wildlife of utmost concern, and also tourism a big business in this county. Excuse me. These fumes are rather noxious, I should tell you. The smell is just horrific.

Tourism a big business in Santa Barbara County and all through right here. People come here because it is so unspoiled, so raw, so beautiful, Brooke. And, obviously, they are very worried that people will be turning away this Memorial weekend and not coming up here to take in all that splendor -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Paul Vercammen, thank you so much. We will be watching what happens there in Santa Barbara County there.

And now really to the latest as far as what we know is a secret treasure trove. This is what was found in Osama bin Laden's hideout a couple years ago, U.S. intelligence just releasing the biggest stash yet of all those documents seized by Navy SEALs during the deadly raid on bin Laden's compound. This was four years ago in Pakistan.

And what is coming out today is absolutely incredible, because of the thousands and thousands of documents recovered from his computers and digital media, digital library, there was one letter in particular that stands out, given the recent rise of ISIS across the Middle East. It turns out bin Laden wasn't exactly hot on the idea of establishing an Islamic state. Instead, he was just absolutely obsessed with taking out Americans.

We also know that while planning the mass killing of Americans, the world's most wanted terrorist was also apparently a devoted family man, spending hours and hours writing letters to his wives and children.

So, Tom Foreman, I have got you with me, and Mike Becker here -- Mike Baker here in New York, former CIA covert operations officer.

We are going to get to you, sir, in just a moment.

But, Tom, let's begin with the letters he was writing to his family. What did he say?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They don't sound anything like what you would expect, frankly, because we have seen him for so many years as this terror leader. He sounds like a guy who is away from his family who wants to reach out and say, I miss you so very much. It's been so long since I have been with you. I truly wish you could be here.

It's a really very different picture than what we have seen before. Nothing in those letters would even suggest that he was involved in a big conflict, that he was simply a guy who was away from his family. So that's the tone of those letters, but the rest of it very, very different. You mentioned the idea of establishing an Islamic state.

He's not against the idea of an Islamic state. What he's mainly saying is, it's not time. It's way too early. You don't try to set up something like that until you're sure that the existing state is so disabled that it cannot resist you, that you can make it happen.

If you think about Afghanistan, how the Taliban rose, the Taliban rose because the existing government was in chaos and not working well. And they were able to rise up. That is the pattern he was looking for in other places, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Tom, thank you.

And, Mike, just to turn to you, we will talk about the personal side of bin Laden in a minute, but the notion here, we talk so much obviously about ISIS and about wanting this Islamic State. And to Tom's point, what was it?

Was he just, A, obsessed with killing Americans? He was also telling his henchmen, you know, don't -- al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, don't go after Yemeni police, which apparently was advice they didn't necessarily take.

MIKE BAKER, PRESIDENT, DILIGENCE LLC: Right. Right.

No, part of is, it's important to understand the context, the timing of all of this.

BALDWIN: OK.

BAKER: Now, some of this material that he's writing, he's writing leading up to the 10th anniversary of 9/11. So that is sort of his mind-set.

And we know that bin Laden was always about the big, spectacular one- off, the big events.

BALDWIN: Huge.

BAKER: And he was always looking to, how do I top 9/11, from his perspective.

There have been some people who have jumped on this right away since the release of this paperwork and said, well, look, bin Laden disagrees with what the Islamic State is doing. Well, that's not the case. Bin Laden and other leadership in al Qaeda and others, they have all been jonesing for a caliphate for generations.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But the difference is?

BAKER: Well, the difference is, at that time, as Tom correctly pointed out, he was saying, look, yes, I would love a caliphate, but it's not necessarily time right now.

BALDWIN: Not yet.

BAKER: You could -- you can't put -- it's been almost four years now since the raid on Abbottabad and bin Laden's death. So the changes, he could never have foreseen those.

But it is fascinating. It's also fascinating in the sense of, when you sweep up this information out of a raid like this and you pull up the cell phones, the computers, everything you can get your hands on, the first thing you do is you scrub it for any actionable leaks.

[15:10:05]

BAKER: So it becomes perishable immediately. Right?

And so you go after all those actionable leads, and then you prioritize the rest. Well, it's three years on from this raid. And so it's interesting to see that we're just now starting to see some of this material come out. And my question, I suppose, would be the timing of it all. The DNI released it. The DNI doesn't just release documents on his own.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You're wondering why.

(CROSSTALK) BAKER: Right. I'm a little bit curious.

BALDWIN: OK. Fair point.

BAKER: Because I would loved to have seen this sooner, because it's all been scrubbed. We're not releasing any sources and methods at this point.

BALDWIN: What about as far as some of his reading material? I mean, talking to experts last hour, they were not -- they were saying he's so not sophisticated, talking about the banality of the whole thing, the fact that he was reading 9/11 conspiracy theories, when we all know what he did...

BAKER: Right.

BALDWIN: ... and reading about terrorism. Why do you think he was so fascinated with that?

BAKER: Look, I'm definitely not a psychologist.

He's not Lex Luthor. And we tend to build him up that way over the years, particularly since his death. And we imagine this. And so it's a little bit at odds when you see this lonely dude sitting with a blanket over his shoulders reading all this banal material.

BALDWIN: Totally.

BAKER: But, at the same time, he was efficient enough and he killed thousands and thousands of people and was responsible for, you know, in part the mess that we see now and the horror and the brutality of ISIS.

That sprung right up out of al Qaeda in Iraq. So, while he wasn't Lex Luthor, he got the job done, from the jihadist perspective. But I think it is interesting that people are going to look at this now and try to parse to say, I -- I really don't care. I'm not a touchy-feely guy. I don't care what his mind-set was.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I was going to about to ask you. I don't think you would care. I don't think you would care necessarily about the touchy-feely letters of some of these letters to his sons or his wives and missing them.

I mean, I have no sympathy. Don't care.

(CROSSTALK)

BAKER: Exactly. And I think most people are going to feel the same way.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BAKER: If I may just say one thing about your previous guest, not Tom, but Debbie Lee, Mike (sic) Lee's mother, she made such a wonderful point.

We're coming up on Memorial Day. And on Memorial Day, I go to Arlington National Cemetery. My father...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: My grandfather is buried there.

BAKER: Exactly.

And you go there. You remind yourself what this is all about. Of course you love your barbecues and, of course, all that, but at the same time, if I could say anything to everybody, it would be take the time also, do the barbecues, have the fun and enjoy it, but sit down and talk to your kids or shake a vet's hand or take some flowers to a cemetery and add that to your normal traditions, because we can't ever forget what this is all about.

BALDWIN: Walking around Arlington, goose bumps.

BAKER: Oh, my God, the most important, impressing, peaceful place on earth, I think.

BALDWIN: Mike Baker, well said. Thank you so much for adding that. I really appreciate it.

BAKER: Thank you. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Next here on CNN, a family member of one of the bikers killed in that mass, gruesome shoot-out Sunday in Waco, Texas, joins me next, and she reveals what she says he was really doing there.

Stay with me. You're watching CNN.

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[15:17:17]

BALDWIN: It is not just police in Waco, Texas, bracing for more biker violence.

The sheriff in Palo Pinto County about 150 miles away is taking precautions after Sunday's shoot-out in Waco that left nine bikers dead. The sheriff told "The Fort Worth Star Telegram" that the Cossacks motorcycle club has agreed to cancel its big biker event this Memorial Day weekend, where as many as 300 bikers were expected to gather.

The sheriff is reportedly planning to shut down roads to make sure no bikers gather whatsoever. We are also learning more about some of these bikers who lost their lives. Some were fathers. All were shot to death.

And on the phone with me now is the ex-wife of Jacob Rhyne. He was 39 and he died Sunday from a gunshot wound to his neck.

So, I have Rocki Hughes on the phone with me.

Rocki, I'm so sorry for your loss. Thank you so much for just taking a moment with me this afternoon.

ROCKI HUGHES, EX-WIFE OF JACOB RHYNE: You're welcome. I thank you.

BALDWIN: Let me just begin with I know that you were married to him for 10 years.

HUGHES: Yes.

BALDWIN: You have two children together. How did you find out he was killed?

HUGHES: I was at the house and I received a phone call from a friend.

And she had been told that there this had been four shot in Waco and one of them was dead. And the one that she had been told was dead was Jake. And so my daughter had stayed the night with me. She lived with her father. But she had stayed the night Saturday with me. And she had went to the house to get some clothes. We were going to Eastland and get some shoes for her.

And so I called her and I asked her if her dad was home, and she said no. And I said, well, was he in Waco? And she said, no, he said something about going to Mineral Wells or something. And so I had her call around and there was -- his girlfriend, Emily (ph), had received a message from him at 10:00 that morning saying that he had made it to Waco.

And so we got on the phone and started to call around to hospitals and the Waco TV trying to find any information, which we couldn't. So we got in the vehicle and drove to Waco to try to found out more information, but we wasn't able to.

We didn't find out, and it wasn't confirmed until my kids had already been sent pictures of their dad on the tailgate of the truck.

BALDWIN: I'm sorry. Your kids were sent photos of their dead father?

HUGHES: Yes.

BALDWIN: Who sent the photos?

HUGHES: Just -- I mean, it was all over the Internet and stuff already.

And so some of -- we weren't wanting to believe it. I just kept telling -- telling my son -- he'd stayed at home while me and our daughter, Skye (ph), went to Waco.

[15:20:05]

And so I kept getting on back with him and -- because he kept on getting phone calls saying that they were sorry. You know, people were sorry for the loss of his father. And I just kept on telling him, it's not confirmed yet, babe. I don't believe it. I'm going to find out. As soon as I find out something for certain, then I will let you know.

And he called me back about 9:00 that night and he said, mom, it's true. I seen a photo.

And so I had him send me and Skye the photo. And you could tell that it was Jake. Jake had the name of our daughter on one forearm and on his other forearm, he had name of our son, Dylan (ph). And you could you see the tattoo and all of that and his big beard that he had. So we knew it was really him.

BALDWIN: You knew. You knew.

HUGHES: Yes.

BALDWIN: Rocki, help me understand what happened. He -- Jake was a member of the Cossacks, yes?

HUGHES: Yes.

He -- he got with the Cossacks no more than six months ago. He got with them. And I was called by one of the wives yesterday. Her husband from jail was given his phone call and he called his wife and then the wife calls me and told me it was the guy that was with Jake while he died. He was trying to give mouth to mouth and tried to bring him back and stayed with him until he did die, and they covered him with a sheet.

And the cops pulled the guy off. And that guy had said that they went and there's an impression that they were making peace with the Bandidos. They meant no harm. They went. They had been having problems with the Bandidos and they were going to make peace.

He said that they were sitting in the back outside the restaurant and just sitting on their bikes drinking beer, waiting for the Bandidos to show up. And they heard a commotion. The Cossacks had -- or, I mean, the Bandidos had showed up and ran over one of the Cossacks.

And so there was a commotion out front. And they said that Jake jumped up to go see what the commotion was about and he made it about 40 foot and rounded a corner and was shot in the neck and killed.

BALDWIN: So you're saying...

HUGHES: But Jake didn't carry a gun or anything.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: He wasn't armed?

HUGHES: No. No.

BALDWIN: Wow.

HUGHES: He didn't believe in guns. He got in many fights throughout his years, but he never needed a gun to protect himself.

He always carried a pocketknife, but he used it, you know, daily on things like cleaning his nails or -- you know?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But, Rocki, if he didn't believe in guns -- and we're hearing today from Waco police that they recovered 1,000 weapons, and you're telling me that you thought that they were all going to make peace. Why do you need 1,000 weapons for that?

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: If you take off the weapons that they're saying that they found -- they're calling a weapon the chain -- a lot of guys had chain from their bill fold to their belt loop. That -- if that's being called a weapon or, you know, pocketknives, I mean, but you take off those and then tell me, how many guns were there, you know?, and tell me how many of the Cossacks -- out of those guns, how many of the Cossacks were carrying a gun?

Because the Cossacks went as to make peace. They -- that's all they were doing. The Bandidos were the ones that had been stabbing some of their guys here recently and everything. They were going to make peace with the Bandidos.

BALDWIN: The Cossacks were going to make peace.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But, again, again, Rocki, we're hearing that there were weapons that were hidden in the stools at the restaurant and in the kitchen at the restaurant.

Again, I'm having a hard time understanding what about that says making peace.

HUGHES: Right.

And I'm having -- I'm having a hard time when I read the news and it says eight of the nine killed are Cossacks. And I also read on there that four out of the nine were killed by the police.

And another thing that was said to this wife that called me yesterday was, it was like they were in the crossfire of the Bandidos and the law, that the Bandidos were on one side, Cossacks had went to see what the commotion was about and then cops come up behind the Cossacks.

And so there were fires between the cops and the Bandidos. And the Cossacks were just caught in the middle of it. And another thing, they call it organized crime. They're saying it is organized crime, but then you read on there, too, where they're saying that the fight started over a parking spot.

BALDWIN: That's right. HUGHES: How is it organized crime? They didn't know somebody was

going to park in that spot. And so, you know, a lot of it doesn't add up, a lot of it.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Rocki, a lot of us are sort of learning about biker gangs. And I know that not everyone has to be incarcerated as part of a rite of passage, but I have been talking to a lot of people who have infiltrated a lot of these gangs.

And so I think, you know, can you -- explain to me, because, from what I understand, a lot of this does have to do -- and I am not the saying this was your ex-husband, but a lot of this has to do with criminality and making money, right? This is about selling guns, running guns and selling drugs. So why would Jake...

(CROSSTALK)

[15:25:12]

HUGHES: My ex-husband, they could do a hair follicle test on him and tell he wasn't involved in any drugs.

He worked for the same company of Eva Irons (ph) for 19 years. He started that job when we first had our son. He was only 6 months old when he went to work for Eva Irons (ph). And he worked there. And if you check his banking account, he has no big-time money in his bank account saved up from any gun selling or drugs.

BALDWIN: So why join a gang? Why join the Cossacks?

HUGHES: To be a part of something, I guess. I don't know. That's a question I'm still asking. That's something I don't understand.

Like I said, he was only in that for six months. He -- he never had been anything like that before. And that's something that I still question. It's not worth losing my kids' dad over.

Our kids are broken up. He was an awesome father and just as good of a friend. And I don't understand it either.

BALDWIN: Rocki Hughes, I'm so sorry, but I really do appreciate you calling in and expressing your frustration. And my condolences to you and your family.

HUGHES: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Next, more breaking news, this time out of the nation's capital. This is involving that mansion murder mystery that left those four people dead, mother, father, a child, a housekeeper -- what investigators are now saying about a motive as they are searching for a suspect or suspects. Also, still happening right now, on the floor of the Senate, Senator Rand Paul, White House hopeful, still talking in what he describes as a filibuster against the Patriot Act. He has been going. We have been watching the clock, two hours and counting. We will take you to Capitol Hill.

You're watching CNN.

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