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QUEST MEANS BUSINESS
Banks Fined Billions over FOREX Rigging; Survey Finds Most Bankers Would Trade Illegally; Wall Street Finishes Flat; Calling on Business to Oppose Brexit; Europe Markets Finish Mostly Higher; Poison May Have Killed Russian Tycoon; Spotify Shuffles Into Streaming Video; Furor Over Flats on Cannes Red Carpet
Aired May 20, 2015 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:59:55] (NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE CLOSING BELL)
MAGGIE LAKE, HOST: Stock markets have slipped from their record highs. It's Wednesday, May the 20th.
Tonight, smashing the big bank cartel. Wall Street is hit with billions of dollars in fines over currency manipulation.
Stream on. Spotify moves into the world of mobile video.
And high drama over high heels. The women of Cannes stage a red carpet rebellion.
I'm Maggie Lake, this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
Good evening. Six of the world's biggest banks have been fined billions of dollars over deliberate attempts to manipulate currency rates.
The US Justice Department made the announcement today. Citicorp, JPMorgan Chase, Barclay's, and Royal Bank of Scotland are all pleading guilty to
criminal conduct. They admit conspiring to fix the US dollar's exchange rate against the euro.
Bank of America also has to pay a fine for exchange rate rigging, but it wasn't found guilty of a felony. And the Swiss Bank UBS was also fined.
It's penalty relates to rigging interest rates.
The biggest penalty falls on Barclay's It has to hand over $2.3 billion to regulators in the US and Britain, including the harshest fine
every imposed by the UK's financial conduct authority.
The banks may now need special permission to continue doing business in the United States. US attorney general Loretta Lynch called their
behavior "a brazen display of collusion."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORETTA LYNCH, US ATTORNEY GENERAL: The penalty that all of these banks will now pay is fitting considering the long-running and egregious
nature of their anti-competitive conduct. It's commensurate with the pervasive harm that was done, and it should deter competitors in the future
from chasing profits without regard to fairness, to the law, or public welfare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAKE: So, terrible news for the banks, you might think, but it's a bit more complicated than that. Let's see how the shares reacted today,
and you can see, Barclay's and UBS shares both closed up around 3 percent. UBS stock hit a six-year high. Shares of Barclay's stand at a one-year
high. Citigroup, Bank of America, and JPMorgan will all headed lower, but not by significant amounts.
Paul La Monica joins me here in New York. And Paul, you could forgive the average person for being confused when you see that stock reaction.
These are billions of dollars in fines. What are investors looking at?
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN MONEY DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, crime doesn't pay, right? We get the news to the contrary there. Not to be overly
cynical, but I think a lot of investors every time we have more instance like this where the banks are paying fines and getting something out of the
way that's been a legal headache for a while, investors are like, OK, this is good news because it's finally in the rear-view mirror.
It's one of many of the sins of the past that they're paying for, but now it's time to move forward. And I think that's what a lot of investors
are doing. They're not dwelling on the huge mistakes, and in many cases now, criminal mistakes that were made. They're just focusing on the fact
that a lot of these banks are still generating billions of dollars in profits every year.
LAKE: And to be fair, investors aren't making a moral judgment on it. It's their job to evaluate risk --
LA MONICA: Of course.
LAKE: -- and what's going to happen to shares, and so that's what they're looking at. This is one risk, perhaps, taken off the table. You
mentioned criminal charges. This is different than what we've seen before.
In the financial crisis in the past, we saw that they would pay a big fine but they would not admit to any wrongdoing. This time, it's criminal
charges. In the past, that would have been a death knell for companies.
LA MONICA: Yes, it would have, and you would think that this would be a big problem this time, but by all accounts, it sounds like the European
banks are still going to be able to do business as usual with some conditions, I'm sure. It doesn't appear as if Citigroup or JPMorgan Chase
are going to have to make any significant changes, either.
There will be pending court approval. Regulators still taking a peek at these banks and obviously trying to make sure that no criminal activity
is still ongoing. But you don't want to say it's a slap on the wrist, because they were talking about billions of dollars in fines, but it could
have been a lot worse.
LAKE: Right. And they're going to have regulators kind of living with them and have oversight now --
LA MONICA: Right. And I think a lot of them are used to that already.
LAKE: Right, they are unfortunately used to it. It's still something I don't think they like, if you talk to them privately.
As part of this agreement, they also say they're going to cooperate with the government. Although this is settled, there are still criminal
cases pending against some of the individuals.
LA MONICA: Definitely. I doubt that we're going to have any high- level executives charged. And you probably shouldn't. It would seem surprising that CEOs or people of that level were aware of some of the
activity that was going on.
But it was very telling that Attorney General Lynch did not rule out the possibility of criminal prosecution, and I do think that that is
something else that's different here, that you may see people actually go to jail as a result of this foreign exchange rigging.
[16:05:01] And if they were actually guilty, then you would think there should be some prices to be paid, and not just in a monetary way.
LAKE: Absolutely. And white collar cases often hard to prove in court, however, there seems like, based on what regulators are saying,
there's a lot of e-mail chat room evidence, and this time, the banks are going to have to cooperate rather than sort of lawyer up their employees it
LA MONICA: Right. You'd have to think that the banks wouldn't have plead guilty in this case if they really felt that there was a legitimate
reason for them to not be concerned about what some of their employees might have been doing, yes.
LAKE: It's going to make it tough for those individuals. So, the story continues. Paul, thank you so much for that.
LA MONICA: Thank you.
LAKE: Well, the FOREX scandal is the latest of a whole string of cases where misconduct has emerged within huge well-known banks. So, what
kind of people work in banks? Maybe this new survey gives us an insight.
It found that a quarter of them would knowingly do an illegal trade if they were sure they could get away with it. Younger employers told
researchers they'd be even more likely to go for it. Almost a third say compensation and bonus packages give them an incentive to break the law.
And 37 percent said that they were not aware of the Security and Exchange Commission's whistleblower program.
Aitan Goelman is the director of enforcement at the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission. He joins me live from Washington. Aitan,
thank you for being with us. When you hear the results of that survey, it's got to give you great pause and concern that nothing's really changing
on Wall Street, even though we have these massive fines.
AITAN GOELMAN, DIRECTOR, US COMMODITY AND FUTURES TRADING COMMISSION: Well, the fact is, if you listen to the attorney general's press conference
today, she wasn't just talking about the foreign exchange benchmark manipulation, she mentioned all three of them. She mentioned libor -- or
she mentioned at least two of them.
She mentioned libor, because UBS's non-prosecution agreement was torn up, and they were forced to plead guilty to libor. And today, we not only
settled a FOREX case with Barclay's, we also settled a case of the manipulation of ISDAFIX, another benchmark that is used to price interest
So, it's not a -- once in an institution occurrence. It's something that was taking place largely simultaneously in different continents across
different desks in different parts of these banks. And you get to the point where after iteration after iteration of these episodes and scandals,
you can start to conclude that the misconduct is endemic.
And one of the things that the attorney general mentioned and one of the things that we're very focused on at the CFTC is changing the culture
of these banks. And you'll notice that it's not just billions of dollars that these banks have to pay, they also have to commit to making certain
changes in the way they do compliance and the way they do oversight and the way they do supervision.
So, the hope is that with the billions of dollars of penalties that they have to pay and with these changes that you really will see this
enormous kind of ocean liner change course and we'll have fewer of these episodes in the future.
LAKE: And it is difficult to change culture. We have heard this argument all along, that more people need to go to jail, and they need to
go to jail higher up the food chain. Just saying that I wasn't aware isn't enough. Do you think that there has to be more aggressive prosecution?
And why hasn't there been?
GOELMAN: Well, I work at the CFTC, which has the responsibility to enforce civilly the statute that we're responsible for. We can't put
people in jail, we can't bring criminal prosecution. So, I can't really speak for the Department of Justice, but I know that there have been 12
people who've been indicted, 12 humans, individuals, and 3 of them have plead guilty in libor.
And as your last guest said, the attorney general today made very plain that there is no guarantee that individuals -- individual employees
at these banks won't be indicted for the FOREX case.
So, you're absolutely right that there is no substitute in terms of general deterrents for the possibility that an actual human being will have
to do actual time in an actual prison.
LAKE: And by the way, no one takes any comfort in that. No one wants to see people go to jail. But I do think that there is a desire on the
part of public to see some sort of accountability. And then, when you're talking about deterrents, unfortunately, some people think that's
Aitan, I want to ask you, part of this was we heard in that poll that they feel that -- workers in banks feel that their pay packages give them
an incentive to commit fraud. You're talking about compliance and having people sit in and monitor the bank.
What needs to -- do we need to see a change in pay and how pay is awarded? Have you looked at that at the CFTC? And have you had
discussions with the banking community about that?
GOELMAN: We're not prudential banking regulators, so we don't generally deal with safety and soundness issues. But I know that there
have been a number of different ideas floated for reforming how people are paid. Obviously, if people are -- have to hit particular numbers to get
bonuses, they have an incentive to meet that.
[16:10:00] And sometimes if you don't have a strong compliance culture, that overwhelms the responsibility people have to obey the rules.
So, I think that's all part of changing the culture of these institutions.
LAKE: Well, as you said, it's going to take some time, but obviously the government doing what they can, at least today. Aitan, appreciate you
sharing your insight with us today.
GOELMAN: Thank you.
LAKE: Well, on Wall Street, US stocks were up for part of the session, but ended mostly flat. US Federal Reserve minutes show that a
rate rise looks unlikely in June. Shares in Etsy were down more than 20 percent after disappointing earnings reported on this show last night.
Well, time to stand up and be counted. British businesses are told to turn up the volume on the benefits of staying in the European Union.
LAKE: Call it Businesses Against Brexit. The head of the Confederation of Business Industry says company bosses should turn up the
volume and make the case for staying in the European Union. Right now, British chancellor George Osborne is addressing a meeting of the CBI.
Prime Minister David Cameron has promised to hold a referendum on whether to get out of the EU.
Stephanie Flanders is chief market strategist for the UK and Europe at JPMorgan Asset Management. Stephanie, thanks so much for being with us --
STEPHANIE FLANDERS, GLOBAL STRATEGIST, JPMORGAN ASSET MANAGEMENT: Good to be here.
LAKE: -- here in New York. Likely to be -- he's likely to hear an earful, I would imagine, at this meeting. British businesses not happy
about this at all.
FLANDERS: Well, the big businesses definitely have always been very much in favor of Britain being in the European Union. And it was probably
one of the few negatives that the sort of financial and business community saw in that surprising victory by the Conservatives in the election, that
they had been committed, the Conservatives, to holding this referendum.
And so, inevitably, with a referendum, there's always going to be a possibility -- and it's only a choice between yes or no -- there's a
possibility of coming out of the EU, which many people think would be very costly.
I think what was being pointed to there was the fact that business has been a bit wary, because a lot of populations sort of feel that associate
Europe with bureaucratic red tape and regulations. Some small businesses don't like it anymore. They haven't really put their heads out there on
parapet to say no, we should stay in.
LAKE: There's a lot to complain about, and those who are favor have been a little silent --
LAKE: -- so that the conversation has been one way. I wonder, though, without being cynical about this, we've heard now that a couple of
big companies, especially banks, are floated out there, that they're looking at pulling their headquarters out of London. How much of this is
rhetoric, and how much is there a real possibility of big job losses? Have we -- are we able to quantify it?
FLANDERS: Of course it's impossible to quantify. The reason why it's totally impossible to quantify is that you can't compare in or outside the
EU unless you know what the deal would be outside the European Union.
If you assume there'll be no free trade at all between Britain and the rest of Europe, which obviously at the narrowest point of the Channel,
there's like 25 miles. Then that would obviously be devastating for the UK.
But it doesn't seem plausible that we wouldn't continue to have free trade with the rest of Europe. So then, maybe, it doesn't seem like such a
bad thing. So, that's what's impossible to quantify. You have no -- and of course, you don't know what that deal is until it happens, because
nobody has an interest before a vote in really entertaining the idea of being out --
LAKE: Putting their cards on the table, right.
FLANDERS: So, it's very -- it's a very difficult challenge.
LAKE: So, whenever there's an uncertainty like that, it's a negative. Is this going to be -- we're talking about a UK economy that has been doing
well, especially compared to -- everyone would like to be doing better, but it's doing well compared to other economies in Europe. Is this going to be
a problem? Is this going to be an overhang that dampens growth, or is this something that's manageable?
[16:15:06] FLANDERS: I think it's one of those uncertainties that is out there. It's been interesting to me, there's been a lot of political
uncertainty hanging over the UK the last 18 months. You've had the general election, you've had the Scottish referendum that maybe caused more talk
than people expected.
LAKE: And also, perhaps, more worried about this one --
LAKE: -- since it was so --
FLANDERS: But at that time, there's also been the time when business confidence has actually finally picked up after years of being very low.
And you've seen growing investments. So, it seems to be it's important, but it's not necessarily the most important thing.
And I think a lot of people feel if you get it -- if you get the uncertainty out of the way now, maybe even have a referendum in 2016, that
would be better in the long run than letting this question hang over the UK.
Because there's a real issue around Britain's membership in the EU, even if you don't have a referendum. So maybe just get it out there.
LAKE: Get it out of the way. And perhaps now that we're seeing it, if it is closer, you'll see the debate get a lot louder on both sides, and
maybe change the polling numbers we're seeing so far. It's fascinating to watch. Stephanie, thanks so much for coming in. Great to see you.
FLANDERS: Thank you.
LAKE: Well, across Europe, shares finished mostly higher. That was helped by gains for UBS and Barclay's, two of the banks that had heavy
fines imposed on them today. In London trading, Burberry shares tumbled 5 percent. The British luxury goods maker cut its annual profits guidance.
Burberry says it was hit by exchange rate volatility and weak sales in the US and Hong Kong.
British authorities say a Russian tycoon who died in London may have been poisoned for trying to uncover a powerful fraud syndicate. Suspicions
about his death are only just coming to light three years after he died. CNN's Matthew Chance has more from Moscow.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the affluent gated community in southern England which may be the
latest Kremlin crime scene to come to light. It was here that wealthy Russian exile and whistleblower Alexander Perepilichny dropped dead while
jogging back in 2012. He was just 44.
At the time, British police ruled out foul play, but now, traces of an extremely toxic plant in his stomach appear to have been found.
CHANCE (on camera): The controversial findings were presented earlier this week at a coroner's court in Britain after plant toxicology experts
from the Royal Botanic Gardens in Kew were asked to help determine the cause of death. What they found were traces of gelsemium, a plant which
produces a poison which is extremely rare and very hard to trace.
CHANCE (voice-over): The poisoning theory has strong echoes of the suspected murder of another Russian exile in London, Alexander Litvinenko.
That 2006 killing with a radioactive poison badly soured Russian relations with Britain.
Like Litvinenko, Perepilichny warned his life was at risk from forces linked to the Kremlin after providing key evidence of a massive alleged
fraud involving Russian tax officials. At the time, the US-born financier who's investment company was targeted in the alleged fraud told me he
believed the information from Perepilichny may have been hid death sentence.
BILL BROWDER, CO-FOUNDER, HERMITAGE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: People would kill for a lot less than this information. What happened from this
information was that many millions of dollars of accounts that belonged to corrupt Russian officials and organized criminals has been frozen. And
people will kill for a lot less than many millions of dollars in Russia.
CHANCE: The Kremlin has not yet responded to CNN's request for comment, and British authorities say more tests must be done for the
coroner's courts to decide. But suspicions have again been raised that this one unexplained death in southern England may have been orchestrated
Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.
LAKE: The Cannes Film Festival has found itself on the back foot. A film producer who also happens to be an amputee was told off for wearing
flat shoes on the famous red carpet. I'll be speaking to her next.
[16:20:39] LAKE: Spotify has made the latest move in the war of the streaming services. It is moving into video content. The company's CEO
unveiled a host of new features. Even the free version now includes podcasts, more personalized playlists, and videos from the likes of Vice,
Ted, NBC, and ESPN.
Spotify is expanding at a time when competitors are trying to bust their way into the streaming business. Jay-Z is looking to get in the game
with his service called Tidal. In a freestyle rap last weekend, Jay-Z dissed Spotify and other companies battling for a piece of the crowded
CNN Money's tech correspondent Laurie Segall spoke to Spotify's chief business officer, Jeff Levick. She asked why they're making the move into
JEFF LEVICK, CHIEF BUSINESS OFFICER, SPOTIFY: What we found is that people are engaging in different content types. They're listening to
music, and they're also doing other things. So, one of the things that we wanted to look further in is that if you brought those two experiences
together, how much more rich and how much more engaging can we make that experience for users?
We've done a lot of testing, and we found that people found it highly engaging to be able to switch and interact between both video and music and
spoken word contents all in the same place
LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECHNICAL CORRESPONDENT: And you guys partnered up with quite a few different organizations. Take us through
some of those.
LEVICK: Yes. So, obviously, we're working what we think are some of the best content providers in the world, whether it be from ABC, NBC,
Viacom, Comedy Central, Vice, Turner. We're really working with a variety of content providers, mainly really understanding our audience and the
types of things that they want to engage in.
But a traditional way of thinking about music is that you like country, or you like R&B. What we've found is that people are actually
curating music around their mood. So, whether it's working out, or whether it's resting, or whether it's a dinner party, we have more than 2 billion
playlists that have been created on Spotify. And what people title those tell us what they're doing.
We found that as a result of that, that "sleep" on Spotify is a larger category than R&B. Talking about these moments and use cases, one thing
that we, as sort of a side project that became something we also announced today, is the addition of Spotify Running.
And we found is, one of the top things that people do with music is that they run to it. And we really took that experience and said there
really has been no innovation in the connection between music and running since the portable music device was created.
And we basically rebuilt an experience that was made just for runners. And what users will see launching today is the new tab called "Running"
that basically allows you to chose the type of music that you like to listen to, pick that genre, start running. Spotify will automatically
detect your beat and give you music that will give you the pace that you want to run for as long as you want to run.
SEGALL: Is it also a way to kind of get ahead of some of the competition? You guys aren't the only ones in the game anymore. You have
Jay-Z just launching Tidal, you have Apple, which is reportedly relaunching Beats. This is a very interesting time for streaming. Is this helping you
guys push ahead in that increasingly crowded -- ?
LEVICK: Yes. We've been doing this for seven-plus years. We're the world's leading music streaming provider in the world. We have more than
60 million active users and continuing to grow. We have more than 15 million paid subscribers.
So, we really understand the space very well, and we understand our users really well. And for us, we stay incredibly focused on innovating
for them and delivering the best experience possible for them.
LAKE: Well, the furor over flat shoes on the Cannes red carpet is growing louder. More voices are joining the chorus of disapproval at the
world's most famous film festival. A number of women say they've been turned away from the red carpet because they wore flats instead of high
Now the director of the festival is apologizing for what he calls, "quote," a small moment of overzealousness, possibly on the part of
security guards." Actress Emily Blunt is in Cannes, and she was asked about this.
She says, "We shouldn't wear high heels anyway, that's my point of view. You kind of think that there's new waves of equality, and waves of
people feeling that realizing that women are just as fascinating and interesting to watch and bankable."
Film producer Valeria Richter was given a hard time on the red carpet. She was wearing flat shoes at the time because she has a partially
amputated foot. She joins us now, live via Skype from Copenhagen.
[16:24:55] Valeria, thank you so much for being with us. This is a story that has really resonated and exploded online. A lot of us, I think,
thought that it was one of those headlines that once you read the story it wouldn't turn out to be true. Unfortunately, it is. Can you tell me --
VALERIA RICHTER, FILM PRODUCER, SCRIPTWRITER: Yes.
LAKE: Can you tell me how you felt or what your reaction was in the moment when this was happening?
RICHTER: Well, I'm used to lots of different things in the film business. Being a woman, you sort of need a good sense of humor in a lot
of situations. So -- and some colleagues had already warned me ahead, because sometimes you need to change for the gala some hours before,
because you have some events, and then you need to rush to the gala.
So, some colleagues had already told me, oh, you think you're going to get in in those shoes, good luck with that. So, I sort of anticipated
that, that they might stop me at the first entrance. And I was just saying, well, I'm sorry, but this is what I can wear, and I have this
situation with my foot. And then, I was sort of ushered along to the next queue, but I --
RICHTER: -- anticipated to be stopped --
RICHTER: -- four times. I had events --
RICHTER: -- once, but -- you just take it with a bit of humor. But of course, it does feel awkward in the end, because I was standing more or
less on the red carpet next to all the press photographers and --
LAKE: Valeria, we're going to have to actually leave it there. We so appreciate you joining us. Unfortunately, we're having some problems with
her Skype shot, so obviously, she doesn't realize that, but we weren't able to really see her. We'll try to see if we can address that in the future.
Shooting an endangered rhino to save the species? We find out about the countries that say they're funding conservation by selling hunting
LAKE: Hello, I'm Maggie Lake. Coming up on the next half hour of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, we'll step aboard Jackie Chan's private jet and have
a tour from the man himself.
And Greek pensioners join with doctors and nurses to protest health care cuts.
First, though, these are the top news stories we are following for you this hour.
Clashes with ISIS fighters are reportedly continuing near the ancient ruins of Palmyra in Syria. That according to the Syrian Observatory for
Human Rights. ISIS now controls most of the modern city that's just a short distance from the important archaeological site.
The US government has released a trove of new documents taken in the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. They show the former al Qaeda leaders
telling jihadists to focus on targeting Americans as well as personal letters to members of his family.
[16:30:00] Prince Charles has visited the area where his great uncle was killed in an attack by Irish Republican militants. Lord Louis
Mountbatten died 36 years ago in a bomb attack while on holiday in Ireland. Decades later, the prince said he had a new perspective.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE CHARLES, UNITED KINGDOM: Through this dreadful experience, though, I now understand in a profound way the agonies borne by so many
others in these islands, of whatever faith, denomination, or political tradition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:30:00] LAKE: Prince Charles has visited the area where his great uncle was killed in an attack by Irish Republican militants. Lord Louis
Mountbatten died 36 years ago in a bomb attack while on holiday in Ireland. Decades later, the Prince said he had a new perspective.
PRINCE CHARLES, UNITED KINGDOM: Through this dreadful experience though I now understand in a profound way the agonies
borne by so many others in these islands of whatever faith, denomination or political tradition.
LAKE: Some of the world's biggest banks have been fined billions of dollars for a conspiracy lasting several years to
manipulate currency rates. Citicorp, JPMorgan Chase, Barclays and Royal Bank of Scotland are all pleading guilty to criminal conduct.
They admit conspiring to fix the U.S. dollar's exchange rate against the euro. Bank of America also has to pay a fine for exchange rate rigging but
it wasn't found guilty of a felony. And the Swiss Bank UBS was also fined. Its penalty relates to rigging interest rates.
Ukraine's finance minister says she hopes the country won't have to suspend debt repayments. The Parliament approved a law allowing Ukraine to halt
repayments if it doesn't reach a deal with creditors to restructure loans. Natalie Jaresko told CNN's Hala Gorani some form of debt reduction will
ultimately be needed to get the country back on track.
NATALIE JARESKO, UKRAINIAN FINANCE MINISTER: We need to return this economy to a position where it can grow, and that's
only going to be possible through restructuring. The measures that the Parliament took yesterday which I welcome are a tool in the toolbox. And with all due respect, we hope not to have to be able
to be in that situation, but it's an eventuality that we may face if we can't bring the creditors and - that we're talking with - on to a
reasonable solution - a rapid solution - that meets those three targets.
LAKE: Conservationists are condemning Namibia's government for allowing an American trophy hunter to shoot a rare black
rhino. Corey Knowlton paid $350,000 for the hunting permit and defends what he did, saying it actually helps preserve the endangered rhinos.
CNN's Ed Lavandera went along on the controversial hunt and he joins me now from Namibia. And Ed, this has really struck a chord with people - this
story. Walk us through the thinking of Corey.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Corey Knowlton - I approached him about documenting this hunt with him and he
says that he would - he was open to it - he wanted the world to see how it was going to be carried out, that he was following the rules of protocol
set up by the Namibian government. But despite that, it has become - it has come under a great deal of criticism, but this is how it went down.
LAVANDERA: Three days of hunting a black rhino through the unforgiving brush of Northern Namibia --
COREY KNOWLTON, HUNTER: Now (inaudible), slowed down.
LAVANDERA: -- ended here. And Corey Knowlton has no regrets.
KNOWLTON: I'm pretty emotional right now to be honest.
LAVANDERA: You've been heavily criticized for doing what you just did.
LAVANDERA: Do you feel like what you did is going to benefit the black rhino?
KNOWLTON: One hundred percent, a hundred percent. I've felt like from day one it was benefiting the black rhino and I'll feel
like that until, you know, the day I die.
LAVANDERA: Knowlton granted CNN exclusive access into this controversial hunt for the black rhino - one of the most
endangered species in the world. He won the license to hunt the rhino in an auction last year.
There's so many people who think that what you're doing out here is barbaric and that you don't care about this black rhino.
KNOWLTON: Nobody in this situation with this particular black rhino put more value on it than I did. I'm absolutely
hell-bent on protecting this animal.
Male: Do you think it smelled us when went in?
LAVANDERA: Knowlton's received death threats and scathing criticism. Some animal welfare groups call conservation hunting a
AZZEDINE DOWNES, CEO, INTERNATIONAL FUND FOR ANIMAL WELFARE: These are incredibly majestic creatures and they're worth alive
is far more - it's far greater than they are dead.
LAVANDERA: In Namibia, the biggest threats to the black rhino are poachers and often the rhinos themselves.
KNOWLTON: I'm Corey. Nice to meet you.
LAVANDERA: Knowlton is told by Namibian government observers to target four specific rhinos considered a high-priority threat
to the herd. That's the story of this rhino, spotted by cameras at a watering hole just before sunrise.
[16:35:00] Last year it killed another rhino in a gruesome fight. The hunt begins. The African brush is dense. Knowlton will have a split second to
decide whether to pull the trigger. It would be a catastrophic mistake for Corey if he were to shoot the wrong
rhino - one that is not on the list of eligible rhinos to be taken out of the herd.
Local trackers pick up the rhino's footsteps and walk deeper into the brush.
KNOWLTON: (WHISPERING) This was the angry one that's already killed another bull. So he's likely to just kind of get up
and go. So we need to be ready.
LAVANDERA: Silence is crucial. Trackers direct Knowlton and his Namibian hunting guide with hand signals. We get closer
and in an instant the rhino flashes before us. (WHISPERING) - I saw the rhino (inaudible) it started (inaudible).
The rhino moves around us be he's invisible, silent. A nearly 3,000-pound beast that can move like a ghost in the brush until it decides to charge.
We don't see him until he's 30 feet away - charging right at us - and I have dive below Knowlton's high-powered rifle.
LAVANDERA: A short while later, the rhino is dead. As we sit here at this moment and take it all in, and we think about what
the biggest threat to these rhinos are around the world, then it's poachers - people who will kill these animals and leave them to rot in these fields
of Africa just for this horn. These horns that you see here will sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars on the black market.
Corey Knowlton knows this isn't easy to watch, but he vows to take the abuse of his critics to convince the world that conservation hunting can
help save the black rhino.
LAVANDERA: And, Maggie, these are kinds of hunts although getting a great deal of attention are extremely rare. They
started in 2009, permitted by the Namibian government, and since then this is the seventh time that it has happened in the last six years.
The Namibian government says that despite poaching numbers that are on a dramatic increase - that the black rhino population here in the country of
Namibia has been raising - rising - 5 to 7 percent every year. Maggie.
LAKE: Ed, I was going to say it's hard to watch that for a lot of us. We're going to talk to the conservationist in a
moment. I want to get more of the thinking from this man Corey Knowlton and those who sort of share his point of view.
You spent time with him. Could he have just gone around the government, done this illegally - I mean, he has a lot of money to spend. Could he
have just hooked up with a sort of poacher and done this? Do you feel that he is genuine in his desire for conservation?
LAVANDERA: You know, honestly after spending a great deal of time with him and talking to him over the course of the last year and a half, I mean, you
can think a lot of things of Corey Knowlton - you might not agree with what he has done, but I don't think it would be fair to suggest that he doesn't
care about this black rhino and the species as a whole. You probably may or may not agreement with the way he's doing it, but I think questioning his - where his heart is on that would be extremely
unfair. But having said that, he knows full well - and there are a great deal of critics - he stands behind what he calls the science of it and that
he has the support of many prominent conservationists around the world who say in the end what he is doing can contribute.
It's not the only way to do it he says but it is part of a conservation program and plan that can help species thrive.
LAKE: Great job giving us balance in that story. Thank you so much for that fascinating report. Ed Lavandera for us
tonight. Now while Namibia says it uses the allure of big game hunting to fund
conservation, other African countries have different approaches. Kenya banned game hunting in 1977. Today its thriving safari industry brings in
$800 million each year. Zambia has recently lifted its own ban on hunting lions and leopards. It
put the ban in place two years ago. In Botswana, there was a total ban on big game hunting. Instead, it's
focusing on year-round tourism. Some conservation groups say trophy hunting has no place in any strategy
for protecting endangered wildlife. Azzedine Downes is the CEO of the International Fund for Animal Welfare. You saw him in Ed's report just
now. He joins us life from Providence, Rhode Island. Azzedine, thank you so much for being with us. You say that this is the -
LAKE: -- wrong strategy. Can you address the point that Ed brought up that the government says they do this judiciously,
it was a rhino they believed had a problem and it's much-needed money for the broader conservation effort. Do you not buy that at all?
[16:40:08] DOWNES: It's not that I don't buy it at all, but the argument is made that originally it was one rhino - very
specific rhino. In the report we're hearing that it's four rhinos, we are hearing that it was a geriatric rhino that had no further use.
Listening to the clips just now and seeing Ed, you know, last night, I wouldn't say that that is the case. So there's a lot of speculation as to
whether or not that rhino really had no useful place in the herd. It's still clearly a very dangerous animal.
I do think that many, many governments struggle to find ways to fund conservation and trophy-hunting is one of the ways that they turn to. But
I think it's insufficient as a conservation strategy and, you know, to finish the argument, it has to be a common-sense argument.
Kill them to save them to therefore what? Well in this case it's to kill them. That's the reason. Kill them to save them so they continue saving
LAKE: It sounds like you're concerned about a slippery slope but we've seen in other cases - in Zambia - that they've
lifted the ban all together. They say they need the economy - it helps the local villages and without those funds, it's not only an issue of funding
conservation, it's just hurting people in general who desperately need that money.
DOWNES: Yes, I think that it's a really weak economic argument. If you look at the statistics of what trophy hunting
actually adds to the economy, and certainly to local villages, just looking at the CNN Twitter feed today, questions about well where did the meat go?
What happens? Literally the villages are thrown a bone. They're thrown the carcass, the
meat. So my argument and the work that we do including in Zambia and Kenya and Malawi is that the governments should be really engaging in much more
serious economic development for the communities and not relying on what amounts to a trivial part of the economy which is trophy hunting.
LAKE: Can - you know - we `ve seen in other countries in some of the examples that we've given that they have a total
ban in place and they've used that natural resource as a way to promote ecotourism. Is that the right solution?
LAKE: Does it replace enough of the revenue? Or does it just create a problem where you're basically, you know, relegating
the local population once again to servicing rich Westerners which is a concern when you talk about ecotourism?
DOWNES: No, it absolutely is - you're right. And I think that there needs to be a much more comprehensive look at what
ecotourism really is and how it engages the community. Because for too long too many governments have had national parks and communities are
outside the parks and they're not really gaining any sort of economic value and so they therefore don't see protecting the animals in their own
economic interests. So what we try to do is work with the communities, involve other community development organizations, we have the animal welfare and conservation
side. But whether it's small farming or fish farming or other mechanisms of growing crops and selling them on a micro scale so that they see that
protecting the elephants or the rhinos is in fact in their best interests. Trophy hunting on the other hand, highly speculative as to where those fees
go and, you know, looking at third-party studies of it, maybe 3 to 5 percent of the proceeds from the trophy hunt go to the local communities.
So I think the local communities deserve a lot more and if you're going to hunt, don't hunt an endangered species.
LAKE: Yes. It's as simple as that I suppose, isn't it? It's a very emotional topic - a very tough one to watch and
report on -
DOWNES: Yes it is.
LAKE: -- but important. For all the emotion, it's going to come down to economics ultimately. Azzedine Downes, thank
you so much for joining us today.
DOWNES: Thank you. It's my pleasure.
LAKE: Well Jackie Chan is known for high-flying martial arts on the silver screen. To keep his demanding schedule running
on time he flies high on a private jet of course. We'll join him onboard.
[16:46:39] LAKE: Airline stocks have suffered a sudden loss in pressure. Shares of Southwest, American, United, Delta,
JetBlue and Spirit were all down between 6 and 8 percent Wednesday. Well a movie star says he's had it with using any of those airlines.
Jackie globetrots by flying private. Chan says the most valuable thing he has is time and traveling any other way wastes too much of it. Anna Coran
joined him aboard his private jet.
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- two, --
JACKIE CHAN, ACTOR: Three,
CHAN: One more. (SNAPPING PHOTO). I just don't understand why everybody do stuff like this. (POKES OUT LIPS).
COREN: I don't know. OK, we should make faces.
CHAN: Yes. One, two -- (SNAPPING PHOTOS). Thank you.
COREN: It's great to have you with us. Tell me about your jet.
CHAN: Long time ago when I was making a American film where we travel around for the promotion. Then suddenly I find out
the private jet really save a lot of time.
COREN: Because it's a big investment. You're talking about millions of dollars.
CHAN: Yes but sometime the time is more value than a couple of million for - you're staying at airport, delay, wait. When I
get to the airport, get to the airport, get on a flight and fly. And I can have a business on a plane with all my colleagues and really save a lot of
COREN: Jackie, how do you spend time on your plane? What are you doing?
CHAN: Doing meeting, business, sleeping, watching movie.
COREN: Yes. And tell us about your schedule? Where will you fly from around the world?
CHAN: Where I am. Three days ago in Beijing, then day before yesterday Salawat, yesterday morning in Malaysia, night time in
Shanghai. Tomorrow night Macau. After Macau Hong Kong one day, Taiwan two days then fly back to Beijing for the film festival closing then fly to
U.S. Whenever I have time, six hour - yes, I go.
COREN: Because you've had such an incredible career - such an illustrious career, one that really is still going. So if
anything, you deserve this. You deserve this luxury.
CHAN: I don't know do I deserve or not. I just - I work very hard, I was born very poor family, now everybody is talking
about health - health food, health drink. Now I need time. Time is -
COREN: Is precious.
CHAN: Yes. So I - so I think that the private jet really save my time.
COREN: Yes. Terrific. Thank you, Jackie.
CHAN: Thank you.
COREN: That's fantastic.
CHAN: Figure I might (ph).
LAKE: Top Ten list and stupid human tricks can only mean one thing - the "Late Show with David Letterman." As the TV host
prepares for his final show, we'll be live outside the theater.
[16:51:24] DAVID LETTERMAN, COMEDIAN: Our first guest has been the very first guest on every first television program we've
ever done. Ladies and gentlemen, here he is - our good friend, Bill Murray. Bill!
LETTERMAN: You can do it again if you like. You want to try it again?
(BILL MURRAY LEAVES, RE-ENTERS AND PERFORMS ANTICS)
LAKE: David Letterman's more than three decade run as a late night talk show host comes to an end tonight. As Letterman
mentioned from the very beginning, Bill Murray has been running, jumping, sliding and falling into his guest chair.
And with Bill and Dave, the antics never quit and the "Late Show" couldn't bring the curtain down without one more outlandish entrance.
(SCENES FROM LETTERMAN SHOW)
LAKE: And a messy one. Brian Stelter is outside the Ed Sullivan Theater, the home of the "Late Show with David Letterman" since 1993, and,
Brian, I'm sure the fans are gathering just to catch a glimpse. What's the feeling when you're talking to people?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the last few people who are actually going to be allowed see the show have just headed
inside. Letterman is taping it as we speak. We'll start to hear some spoilers I think in the next few minutes.
We did see some big A-list stars go inside - people like Jerry Seinfeld. And of course for your viewers' purposes, the CEO of CBS, Les Moonves,
along with a lot of top executives of CBS. But they say they don't know what's going to happen on the finale and neither do the fans.
We spoke to some of them in line earlier. Here's what we heard.
Male: I came in from Canada just for the show and I lucked up.
Female: Oh yes, we are so excited.
Male 2: You got to be here for the last show.
Male 3: Take the time off, we love you, we'll always remember you. Thank you.
Male 4: It's going to be tough to watch 11:30 without Dave.
Female 2: I love Dave, there you go! (LAUGHTER).
Female 3: He's a legend, he's a legend.
STELTER: Legend is the perfect word. And I'll tell you, a few other stars we saw go inside - we don't know if they'll be on the show or not but
we know they're here. People like Peyton Manning, Tina Fey, Alec Baldwin, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Barbara Walters, Steve Harvey - maybe they'll be on
the show in a few hours.
LAKE: Brian, it's interesting. I'm hearing a lot of comedians and so they're keeping wraps on what exactly is going to happen, maybe the
guests don't know. Maybe it's all going to be improv. Do we know the kind of tone they're going for?
Is it going to be irreverent? It sounds like with all the comedians. Or they going - there's got to be some parts that are going to be very
STELTER: I think so. You know, they did a partial rehearsal last night where they practice. Some of the highlight reels are going to be
running. They practiced perhaps the last Top Ten list. But probably the most interesting detail that at least stands out to me -
Letterman has not practiced his closing monologue - the final words he will say before he says goodnight.
It's all in his head, it's not written down anywhere and it's not being practiced ahead of time. So it will be rather spontaneous and I'm sure a
very emotional moment. You know, after the taping this afternoon, everybody on the staff's going
to be heading out to a party, but they don't really know what they're going to do tomorrow.
You know, Thursday there's only going to be clearing out of here because Colbert -- Stephen Colbert's staff - is going to be moving into this
theater. And there will be about three months before Stephen Colbert takes over the "Late Show" this fall.
[16:55:01] LAKE: Those are some big shoes to fill. And as you mentioned, it's not just about David Letterman. They're also his long-
running E.P. (ph). I know you sat down with him, talked to him. It is an end of an era in a way. Can you talk to us a little bit about what
everyone thinks Letterman's legacy's going to be?
STELTER: Yes, you know, all of the - a lot of the - folks on the staff like his executive producer Rob Burnett have been with Letterman for
decades. And so this is bittersweet for them. They're out of jobs but they have had at least a year to plan for this moment, you know, because
Letterman did announce his retirement more than a year ago. I think what we've heard on this unanimously from television critics, from
cultural commentators is that Letterman was able to figure out what the boundaries were of late night TV, push on them, break them, try new things
- especially as a comic on NBC in the 1980s and then on CBS in the early 1990s.
He was able to really innovate and create what we now know as late night TV. And he has left so many others influenced by him - Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy
Fallon and frankly even comics that aren't on the air yet. They've all grown up watching and learning from David Letterman.
LAKE: That's right. And one of the things that he's known for, for all his comedic genius, but we've seen at times his ability to be serious
and really connect with the audience in an emotional way that I think stands out for people. I'm thinking of after 9/11 and after his heart
attack, that also I'm sure are going to be part of his very important legacy.
Brian, it's going to be great to watch even though it's bittersweet. Have fun. Thank you so much.
Well protesters took to the streets in Athens and it was not just the doctors - it was the patients too. All of them opposing healthcare cuts.
LAKE: Greek doctors and nurses walked off the job to protest cuts in healthcare spending. They were joined by pensioners in a march against
government austerity measures. The demonstrators said they wanted the Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras to protect the public health system from
further cuts. Stocks in Athens took a step back this session after a healthy month of gains. The drop came as the German finance minister told "The Wall Street
Journal" he cannot rule out Greek default. And that's it from "Quest Means Business." I'm Maggie Lake. Join us again (inaudible).