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Texas Biker Brawl; ISIS Advancing?; Suspect Identified in D.C. Murders. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 21, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: He worked twice as hard to keep up with his hearing classmates.

DR. PHILIP ZAZOVE, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: I probably spent a lot more time reading and rereading the material. I never doubted myself.

GUPTA: Today the husband and father of two is department chair of family medicine at the University of Michigan.

ZAZOVE: Many patients don't even know I have a hearing loss. They just think I'm born someplace else and have an accent.

GUPTA: He also inspires others like him to pursue careers in medicine.

DR. MICHAEL M. MCKEE, FAMILY MEDICINE, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Seeing people that are successful is always a help for all of us that may have a little bit of a struggle.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow, in today for my friend Brooke Baldwin.

And we begin with breaking news. A suspect wanted in the case of a family found murdered in their mansion in the nation's capital could turn himself in. Sources tell CNN the suspect told his girlfriend that he does plan to surrender. When will that happen? No one knows.

The girlfriend also says the suspect took the bus to her home in Brooklyn last night. So he would have spent the night there. His name, Daron Dylon Wint, he may have been so money-hungry that he tortured a child in order to get his way. It was the pizza that he ordered in the midst of all this that has now led the authorities to issue a warrant for his arrest for murder.

Sources tell CNN that the DNA found on a pizza crust belongs to Wint, and an intense manhunt is now under way that is focused squarely on Brooklyn, New York, the police chief just making this plea. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CATHY LANIER, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA POLICE CHIEF: Right now, you have just about every law enforcement officer across the country that is aware of his open warrant and are looking for him.

I think even his family has made pleas for him to turn himself in. And I would just reiterate that it's much easier if he just turns himself in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That pizza crust was found at the quadruple murder scene of 10-year-old Philip Savopoulos, his father, Savvas, his mother, Amy, and their housekeeper, Vera Figueroa.

All of the victims were bound with duct tape. And a source tells CNN the boy's body, that 10-year-old boy's body, showed some of the worst signs of torture.

With me now, CNN national correspondent Deborah Feyerick.

You have been working your sources on this. What are they saying about what the girlfriend is giving them in terms of information?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is exactly what led police to search the Brooklyn area.

The girlfriend lives there. It's believed that the murder fugitive may have been in the Brooklyn area last night. The girlfriend was picked up yesterday. She's been -- she's being questioned by authorities. And she told them essentially that Wint told her he was going to surrender. That's what he said to her. But, so far, he remains a fugitive. There's been no indication that he's spoken to any authorities.

And it's unclear whether he was traveling on his own. He could have easily picked up the phone, reached out to police, reached out to federal Marshals, U.S. Marshals, but it doesn't appear that happened. We do know that there's a connection between the suspect and the family because Wint worked for Savvas Savopoulos. He was an employee at the company American Iron Works.

And so there was a connection, police saying this is not random, that they were known to one another. And now we're also learning that he attended the Marine Corps recruit training for a while. He never graduated, never finished it, so, technically, he's not a Marine, but he was trying to go through the training process. He is a fugitive. He's very much wanted. There's an all-out manhunt.

All resources from the NYPD and the Washington police, as well as U.S. Marshals and other federal law enforcement authorities and agencies, they're all looking for this man. But, so far, they have not heard word.

HARLOW: So, a connection, but the question remains why, why, why. They're saying possibly money, but they don't know why.

Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

FEYERICK: Of course.

HARLOW: Also, as we said, it's not clear what role police believe that this man, Daron Dylon Wint, played in the killings. They're not sure if it was just him, if there was another suspect. They don't know.

I just did speak with a criminal profiler, though, about what kind of person would be able to order pizza in the midst of torturing a 10- year-old boy and murdering him and his family. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: What people would generally call him is a nasty piece of work, but I would call him a psychopath and a sadistic psychopath at that, that he could commit this horrible crime and not care one bit about what he's doing to this child, kill four people, and then have no conscience.

So, I mean, if you're hungry while you're doing this, you're going to order dinner. The lucky part is, he's stupid. And his mother didn't teach him apparently to eat all his food. But you don't leave the crust around with your DNA on it. So, he did a really -- a really, really silly thing for a criminal. So it might be at least we now know who it is, at least, instead of wondering who in the heck it could possibly be.

So, that's -- that's an advantage for the police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Well, the murder at the Savopoulos family home sounds gruesomely familiar. You will remember the case.

[15:05:05]

It bears eerie similarity to the case that has become known as the Cheshire murders, the family of four, the Petits, terrorized in a home invasion in Connecticut, the mother and her young daughters raped and murdered, the father somehow escaping, the mansion torched, burnt to the ground. The killers, though, were caught pretty quickly afterwards.

Here with me now is David Heilbroner, the filmmaker who produced "The Cheshire Murders," an HBO documentary on the case.

David, thanks for being here.

DAVID HEILBRONER, "THE CHESHIRE MURDERS": Thanks, Poppy. Glad to be here.

HARLOW: It's sort of unreal to think that we're talking under these circumstances again, because the similarities, there are so many similarities.

HEILBRONER: Oh, it's really -- they're almost like carbon copy cases. And I used to be a prosecutor before I was a filmmaker.

And I have never seen this kind of parallel. Not only do you have these perfect suburban families and these lovely homes entered with security systems that didn't get triggered. You have a night of terror, of holding a family of four hostage, forced calls by the family in the morning to friends saying, don't come over.

HARLOW: Right.

HEILBRONER: Quick violent deaths, torching of the home.

But, then, the new revelations about Daron are what really hammers home the strange connections. Daron had a minimal criminal background. And you remember the perpetrators in Cheshire, Komisarjevsky and Hayes, had similarly just petty burglaries to their name. They never graduated to the big leagues like this.

And then we hear there's a $40,000 package dropped off at the Savopoulos' house. And you probably remember that Hayes drove Mrs. Petit to the bank to withdraw $35,000 in Cheshire. There was arson to cover up the tracks.

And Komisarjevsky also had a military background. He also enlisted and failed in his training.

HARLOW: Wow.

HEILBRONER: So, you add all this up, and it's -- I don't know if it's a copycat or just an eerie similarity, but it s enough to give any seasoned criminologist a lot of pause.

HARLOW: Look, and now investigators have to get to the bottom of it, right? They have to make their case. They have to see if the suspect had any accomplices.

You mentioned a home being burned to the ground in both cases.

HEILBRONER: Yes.

HARLOW: What did you learn that the authorities in the Cheshire family murder case were able to get, the information they were able to access to piece their case together, even with the home burned down?

HEILBRONER: Yes. Well, a lot of it came with -- the arson investigation was really instrumental, because they were able to trace the pour patterns of the gasoline.

And, unfortunately, the results showed that two of the girls were burned alive. One of them was tied to her bed, Michaela Petit, and was doused with gasoline and burned alive. I don't know what we're going to find here. It unfortunately sounds like that might be the case, which would just be, you know, a further dreadful parallel. HARLOW: But the sophistication here -- well, it's sort of a mix.

Right? You have got someone that's dumb enough to order pizza and leave DNA on the pizza crust and leave it there, but someone who also thinks to erase the video from the security system.

HEILBRONER: Yes, well, they're -- criminals can be alternately brilliant and incredibly stupid.

And Joshua Komisarjevsky and Steven Hayes were a good example of that. They did things that were very smart. They broke into this house without triggering the alarm system. They managed to tie up dad and put him in the basement, hold everybody hostage, get the bank records.

And at the same time, they left enormous amounts of DNA evidence. They let Mrs. Petit into the bank unaccompanied by them. They basically let their chief hostage go. It's incredibly stupid for people who can be so sophisticated. So, this -- it's not unusual.

HARLOW: Yes, but incredibly heartbreaking, again, four innocent victims here, including a 10-year-old boy, who it appears was tortured as well.

HEILBRONER: Yes.

HARLOW: David Heilbroner, appreciate the expertise. Thanks so much.

HEILBRONER: That's all right. My pleasure.

HARLOW: All right, coming up next, breaking news, ISIS terrorists going door to door in one ancient city hunting down soldiers, this as we get word that they're now controlling, ISIS terrorists now controlling 50 percent of Syria, half of Syria, President Obama responding. What is he saying?

Also, one of those bikers arrested in that deadly shoot-out on Sunday is now walking out of jail. Hear why.

And David Letterman's run on "The Late Show" is now officially over. He went out in a star-studded finale last night. Coming up, we're talking to the science teacher behind the popular "Kid Scientists" segment.

Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:13:47]

HARLOW: All right, this just into us here at CNN.

Doug Hughes, you might remember that name. It's the pilot of the gyrocopter who in April landed it right near Capitol Hill to deliver letters protesting campaign finance and calling for campaign finance reform. He's facing six charges. He just pled not guilty in federal court in Washington, D.C. He could face, if found guilty, up to nine years in prison. He just spoke to the media. Let's take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG HUGHES, FLEW GYROCOPTER ONTO CAPITOL GROUNDS: I have always been concerned that I might spend time behind bars, and I'm not eager for jail time.

On the other hand, I took responsibility for what I did. This is going to play out in the courts, and it may finish up before a jury of my peers. But I accepted the consequences of what I was doing because I believed it's critical that we return our democracy to the people and that can be done with the solutions that have already been defined.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Again, Doug Hughes there, who landed that gyrocopter right next to the Capitol in April, without notifying the authorities, without any permission, trying to deliver those letters protesting campaign finance, calling for reform now, if he faces trial, he could face up to nine years in prison.

[15:15:08]

Moving on, their goal is to create a caliphate, an Islamic state that expands through the Middle East. It appears their takeover is working. A shocking claim today from a human rights group saying 50 percent of Syria, 50 percent, half the country of Syria, is now under come of ISIS.

Also, we now have confirmation from people on the ground that ISIS has claimed one of the most valuable heritage sites in the entire world, the ancient city of Palmyra. It's a devastating blow in the heart of Syria, as a separate group of ISIS fighters move in on different targets in Iraq.

As you know, five days ago, they seized Ramadi in that bloody march towards the capital of Baghdad. And we now know that they have pushed even further east today. The question now becomes, is the United States losing their war, this war, against ISIS?

Let's go straight to Jim Acosta, CNN senior White House correspondent.

Jim, the president just gave this extensive interview to "The Atlantic." What does he say?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's no sense of panic over here at the White House. And the president is not agreeing with that assessment. And you do hear from lawmakers and some experts who are up on Capitol Hill testifying today that the U.S.-led coalition is, in fact, losing this fight against ISIS and pointing to these recent examples in Ramadi and Palmyra that you just mentioned.

But, as you said, President Obama gave this extensive interview to "The Atlantic" magazine to Jeffrey Goldberg over at the magazine two days ago. And we have got a portion to put up on screen for you, the president saying rather emphatically -- quote -- "No, I don't think we're losing. There's no doubt there was a tactical setback," talking about Ramadi there, "although Ramadi had been vulnerable for a very long time, primarily because they're not Iraqi security forces that we have trained or reinforced."

And that gets to what national security officials were telling us earlier this week, Poppy, is that they do -- while they say that there's no formal strategy review under way, they are tweaking that strategy and that they're trying to upgrade the Iraqi security force capabilities in terms of how to go after Ramadi and retake that key Iraqi city.

They want to empower the Shia militia to go under there under Iraqi security force control to try to retake that part of Anbar province. It's a risky strategy, but it's one that the White House at this point is endorsing. I think it's with some measure of caution because they know that it's a very risky approach.

HARLOW: A risky approach, but a situation where the president said it was a source of concern that Sunni fighters haven't become more engaged and obviously something needs to be done. Jim Acosta at the White House for us this afternoon, Jim, thanks very much. I appreciate it.

Let's talk about this more with Mike Baker, former CIA covert operations officer.

Mike, thanks for being here.

MIKE BAKER, PRESIDENT, DILIGENCE LLC: Well, thank you.

HARLOW: Good to have your perspective. So, let's talk about that first. Right? In this article, this interview with "The Atlantic," after, by the way -- this happened after Ramadi fell.

BAKER: Right.

HARLOW: The president said it was a -- quote -- "source of concern" that Sunni fighters have not become more engaged. Is he going to be able to turn that around?

BAKER: Well, if we devote enough resource and attention to it and we get aggressive enough. But it's a source of concern that the Iraqi military remains relatively incompetent after over a decade.

HARLOW: Relatively?

BAKER: Relatively, because they do have some elements that work well, but, by far not enough. But the idea that after over a decade now, OK, what's our strategy? Our strategy is to train them up. Well, you could ask, what have we been doing all these years?

And so is it just, you know, sort of this wishful thing that one day they will be able to accomplish this? We don't have any control really to speak of over the Shiite militia, obviously, some control and resource provided by Iran when you talk about those groups. We're counting on -- and this is how bizarre this has gotten. Initially, we pushed on the prime minister of Iraq not to utilize the militia, not to work with the militia, the Shiite militia, in a sense, because we're worried about this relationship with Iran.

Now we basically said, well, we think they can deal with that, that everything will be OK. We're counting now on the Shiite militia, again, in part controlled by Iran, to take back Ramadi.

HARLOW: Right. When you hear the president say -- quote -- "I don't think we're losing," talk to me about how that assessment comes. That's not just the president saying, this is what I think. This -- he -- all of -- that means that his advisers on the ground are telling him that.

How did they make that assessment? How do they determine winning or losing? It just seem like such a gray area.

BAKER: Right.

Well, if we go back in time to -- prior to the surge that's been talked about ad nauseam and is now studied at the War College and elsewhere, prior to that surge happening in Iraq that eventually did result in the Anbar awakening and allowed us to make the gains...

HARLOW: The Sunni Muslim awakening, right.

BAKER: Yes, that we were able to do, then we were hearing the same things. We were hearing, it's OK, we're feeling optimistic, things are looking all right. We're moving forward.

And so you had that same sort of disconnect in a sense, because there's a danger always that you have become wedded to your strategy, that -- and so there's this constant need to reevaluate. We're talking about sort of a seismic shift in the strategy. And that's going to be important. But you really should be always evaluating your strategy.

[15:20:11]

Things always change on the ground. You need to constantly be looking and determining if you have got the right path.

HARLOW: When you look at the huge headline out of this human rights watchdog group today saying half of Syria is now controlled by ISIS, do you read that to mean territorially or population-wise? Because it matters when you push into big cities. It would be completely different if ISIS was able to take over a city of eight million to nine million like Baghdad in Iraq vs. a Ramadi or a Fallujah. It's different.

(CROSSTALK)

BAKER: But they -- in Iraq, as an example, they control most of the major urban centers at this point, frankly.

HARLOW: Except for Baghdad.

(CROSSTALK)

BAKER: They don't control Baghdad.

In Syria, they have taken over Palmyra, which is essentially on the road to Homs and Damascus. Is it -- are they talking about territory? Are they talking about population? In a sense, I would argue it doesn't really matter.

HARLOW: Really?

BAKER: They have the territory. They have the ability to hold the territory, to extort, to get revenues from various enterprises, whether it's oil and gas or whether it's criminal activity or whether it's rent or whatever they may be doing.

And so we have to get our heads around the fact. And this is a very uncomfortable thing to talk about. Nobody has the political will to say we have to engage in a more aggressive fashion. But, unless we do, unless we get at the pointy edge of the spear on this one, are we going to wait for years for the Iraqi military to do what they haven't done up to now?

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: What do you mean by that? Because you have the background that tells you what works and what doesn't work. Governor -- former Governor Pataki saying yesterday, look, you don't stay go in and you don't stay there forever, but you go in, you wipe them out, and you leave them with a note saying, if you come back, we're going to do this again.

BAKER: Right.

HARLOW: Are you saying we have to have those kind of American boots on the ground?

BAKER: Well, yes.

What we need is, we need more special operators on the ground conducting more nightly, basically, nightly activities, much like what we did with this well-publicized at this point Abu Sayyaf takedown. We need more boots on the ground to provide quality intelligence, to direct a more efficient, more effective, more aggressive air campaign.

We need more of our personnel in the command areas with the Iraqi military to provide the actual support that they need in order to become more effective. We can't just do this remotely, as much as we would like to do it. Everybody's tired of the war on terror. Everybody's tired from Iraq and Afghanistan. But we have to deal with the threat that is in front of us.

HARLOW: But -- I wish we had more time. I got to -- when you're talking about more American lives, risking more American lives, what -- the toll on the families and the generation of soldiers, you have got to think hard -- long and hard and debate that.

BAKER: Absolutely. Yes.

HARLOW: Thank you. Good to have you on the show, as always.

Just ahead, civilians in Syria risking their lives to save their neighbors, they go in right after the bomb explodes. Dr. Sanjay Gupta's fascinating report, he saw firsthand what they do, the good work the do. He joins me live coming up.

Also, after that biker gang brawl and shoot-out in Texas, investigators found hundreds of guns hidden among tortilla chips, in bags of flour. We're talking to a man who went undercover with the Hells Angels about what those biker gangs are really like.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:25]

HARLOW: He is the first suspect to make bail in Sunday's deadly biker gang shoot-out in Waco, Texas; 40-year-old Jeff Battey posted a $1 bond yesterday after being arrested outside of the Twin Peaks restaurant.

CNN has also learned that police found hundreds, more than 300 weapons, guns, knives, other weapons stashed throughout the crime scene. Some were even stuffed between bags of flour, some in trash cans, some even inside of toilets. An AK-47 was recovered from a car parked in that restaurant parking lot.

And authorities are now examining the cafe's surveillance video, what was shot inside.

Joining me now from Tucson, Arizona, former ATF agent Jay Dobyns. He's the author of "The New York Times" bestseller "No Angel: My Harrowing Undercover Journey to the Inner Circle of the Hells Angels."

Jay, thanks for being with me.

JAY DOBYNS, AUTHOR, "NO ANGEL": Thanks for having me.

HARLOW: You told me, every single day that you were doing this undercover operation for two years, you were worried about your cover being blown. Now, with your perspective, only one in 170 of these bikers who were arrested has been able to post bail. He's this 40- year-old, Jeff Battey.

What does that tell you? Does that tell you he's a top dog, he's in charge?

DOBYNS: Well, that would be an indication. I don't think money is an issue for these guys.

At 170 people, a million dollars a pop obviously is an issue, but the Bandidos especially, they have a big nest egg. They have money.

HARLOW: They all pay into a fund?

DOBYNS: Well, they pay dues that go to a defense fund. Plus, they churn legal and illegal money that goes into the coffers. So these guys, they can fund their defense. There's no doubt about that.

HARLOW: How much would you equate some of these biker gangs -- and I'm really hesitant to label them all as one, right? Because we have heard from a lot of folks that are saying, I'm a part of this and it's not violent and we're just a group that gets together.

But how much do you think some of these more violent ones operate like organized crime, like the mob?

DOBYNS: Identical. The structure is the same. They have a hierarchy with leadership at the top, foot soldiers at the bottom.

The higher you go up in the hierarchy, the more insulated you are. They act also like traditional street gangs, like Crips and Bloods. They, Crips and Bloods, protect red and blue, protect territories and street corners in order to engage in trafficking. The biker gangs do too.

They argue over the formatting of vests and what areas are controlled.

HARLOW: How -- 300-plus weapons were found, I mean, some of these guns stuffed between bags of flour, in toilets.

But yet some people tell us that this was a meeting meant to make peace. Do you buy that?

DOBYNS: I don't. They were expecting trouble.