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Waco Police On Alert; Man Accused of D.C. Murder in Court Today; Josh Duggar Apologizes for Previous Charges; : Baltimore Officers Indicted; Senate Could Work Weekend to Save Patriot Act; Interview with Sen.Mike Lee. Aired 9:30-9:45a ET

Aired May 22, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The charges of second degree assault, false imprisonment for three officers were dropped and replaced with six charges of reckless endangerment. So this means that the prosecution's case is much less focused on whether the three police officers on their bikes, who initially chased Gray, tackled him, had falsely arrested Gary or had probably cause to arrest him because - because he had a concealed knife. It has much more now to do with how Gray was treated in the police van between stops and the fact that no one gave him medical aid when he was clearly suffering.

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MARILYN J. MOSBY, BALTIMORE CITY STATE'S ATTORNEY: Additional information has been discovered and, as is often the case, during an ongoing investigation, charges can and should be revised based on the evidence. These past two weeks, my team has been presenting evidence to a grand jury that just today returned indictments against all six officers.

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MALVEAUX: So, Carol, what she said is that there was new information that has come to light. She did not say what the evidence was, but it could have very well have been the concealed knife the attorneys representing at least two of the police officers filed a motion to actually see that was found on Gray when he was initially apprehended. There was a lot of debate over whether or not that knife was legal to carry understate or city law and what kind of knife this was. And it's very possible that the grand jury saw that knife, determined that it wasn't possible for the officers to figure all that out during the initial encounter with Gray, and that ultimately it didn't even matter. The problem with all six police is that they failed to respond to Gray's suffering, and that certainly could be the focus of what the prosecution is saying now.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: So help us to understand, does this weaken Mosby's case, strengthen it, what happens?

MALVEAUX: You know, it's unclear whether it weakens or strengthens her case here. The police - the attorneys who are representing the police, they certainly still say that they believe that these officers are innocent until proven guilty and that she has a weak case. And the reason why they say this is because they believe she's over charging. That she has ulterior motives. That she should recuse herself from the case because of conflict of interest.

But what happens now is that this moves into another court system and a grand jury has actually agreed with Mosby on these charges. So she, in a way, becomes much less relevant. And it bolsters the case because she's got the grand jury now behind her, agreeing with these charges.

And, Carol, I should let you know as well, there are other things that are happening in Baltimore. Everybody's paying attention to this case. But the bigger picture here for residents is that the Justice Department's still investigating whether or not there's a pattern of practice with Baltimore Police violating civil rights and also the fact that the murder rate has gone up now, Carol.

COSTELLO: Suzanne Malveaux, I know you'll keep an eye on those things. Thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, will lawmakers be burning the midnight oil on Capitol Hill this holiday weekend to save the Patriot Act? We'll talk about that next.

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[09:36:47] COSTELLO: Two years after Edward Snowden blew the lid off the NSA's secret surveillance programs, there could be a showdown today in Congress over a key parts of those program. And senators may have to put their holiday recess on hold. They're bumping up against a June 1st deadline to extend the NSA's mas collection of phone data records of millions of Americans. CNN's chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash is following this for us.

Good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

You know, ever since the public learned about this post 9/11 program, secretly gathering phone records and more, it's really been highly controversial. That's why when the Republican-led House passed an extension of the program this week, there were major changes, there were reforms to actually multiple programs. The problem is that Republicans who control the Senate, many of them think that the reforms go too far and render the programs inadequate for its main mission, which is national security.

And here's another problem, you just mentioned it, the calendar. These surveillance programs expire on June 1st. That's little more than a week from now. And, guess what, the House, they passed their bill yesterday and they left down for an entire week for all of Memorial Day recess, which is, you know, through next week, up until the actual deadline for these programs to expire, which is June 1st. That's the day they comes back.

COSTELLO: I thought we weren't going to have to deal with this since, you know, Republicans control both houses of Congress. Why are we bumping up against a deadline that has to do with national security? BASH: It actually really is surprising, I have to say. The deadlines that you and I have talked about for years sort of careening crisis to crisis have been about fiscal issues, have been about a fiscal cliff, about government shutdowns, government spending. This - this is different. And I think a main reason is because there are very different opinions on whether or not these programs are necessary for national security. When you ask the administration, they say absolutely. Listen to what the attorney general said on CBS.

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LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think it's fear in with the expiration of not just that part of it, but also our ability to track the electronic communications of terrorists, as well as to obtain the records of terrorists, is that we will lose important eyes on people who have made it clear that their - that their mission is to harm American people here and abroad.

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BASH: And then, Carol, you have others in Congress elsewhere, Democrats and Republicans, we, of course, heard it maybe most loudly from Rand Paul earlier in the week, that they just don't buy that. They think that there are other ways to gather information, to keep Americans safe without, from their point of view, breaking the law, which is putting these programs in that are unconstitutional. And that - therein lies the divide, and it is why there is such a - we're down to the wire on this. But you sort of hit the nail on the head, this deadline has been out there for some time, so it is a question of why they waited until the last minute to try to find compromise.

COSTELLO: All right, Dana Bash reporting live from Washington.

Let's talk more about this with Republican Senator Mike Lee of Utah. He joins me now.

Welcome, sir.

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're working on legislation that would curtail the NSA's ability to keep track of all the phone calls made and received in the United States, but your bill is coming at a time when ISIS is recruiting in the United States, and, of course, you know the Senate has to vote on this bill. So why do this now?

[09:40:06] LEE: Well, why do this anytime? We need to do it now because this is consistent with things that are important to the American people. With the understanding that the American people have that our privacy and our security don't have to be in conflict with each other. In fact, our privacy is itself part of our security.

What we do in the USA Freedom Act, which was passed with a bipartisan super majority in the house last week by a vote of 338 to 88, it would say that instead of collecting everyone's phone records simply because they exist, the NSA ought to be focused on collecting those phone records that are connected in some way with the phone number that's involved in a terrorism ring or some other type of bad activity that triggers the attention of the NSA. It's simply wrong for the NSA to be going out and collecting phone records potentially on 300 million numbers in America.

COSTELLO: And as you well know, sir, there are many in your party that don't agree with you. Chris Christie, for example, said, you can't enjoy your civil liberties if you're in a coffin. Senator John McCain said this earlier on "New Day." Listen.

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SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: If we had the means and efforts that we are today, we may have been able to prevent 9/11. And the fact is that what Senator Paul did yesterday, in all due respect, was just delay what we're eventually going to do for 11 hours while he was on the floor of the Senate. We have to come together. There may have to be some changes. But to do away with the entire program that is being conducted by the NSA would put the security of this nation at risk.

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COSTELLO: So I'll just ask you pointblank, are you putting American lives in danger by fighting these provisions?

LEE: Absolutely not. But let me address both of those statements. Let me address Senator McCain's statement first. He's responding there to want one of my colleagues, who wants to see the USA Patriot Act expire altogether. I'm not one of those people. I'm not saying that we ought to let it expire. I'm saying there is a middle ground and the USA Freedom Act accomplishes that.

With respect the first statement that you quoted from Governor Christie, I view that as a statement tantamount to political pornography. I think Mr. Christie should be ashamed of himself for saying that we have to choose between the Fourth Amendment and following the Fourth Amendment and respecting the privacy of the American people on the one hand, or a coffin on the other hand. That's absolutely ridiculous. It's absurd. And if Mr. Christie wants to play a part in the national discussion regarding privacy and security, he should choose his words more carefully.

COSTELLO: Well, he probably would say that this data collection has saved many lives. From what you've seen, has it?

LEE: Well, I would ask Mr. Christie, how many lives has it saved? I would ask Mr. Christie, how many acts of terrorism have been thwarted simply because the NSA is collecting telephone data on what your grandma calls - on calls that she makes or on calls that she receives? How many acts of terrorism has this actually prevented?

Now, I think it's very difficult to make the case that this is necessary, and it's very easy to make the case that this program of collecting everyone's calling data is incompatible at least with the spirit of the Fourth Amendment, if not the letter of the Fourth Amendment. I explained this at length in my book, "Our Lost Constitution," which came out just a few weeks ago, and I explained this program in particular and I explained why we need the USA Freedom Act.

COSTELLO: And just so everybody - everybody gets it, you think there is no evidence that this data collection saved lives or prevented acts of terrorism, major acts of terrorism?

LEE: What I'm saying is that at a minimum, any security benefit that can be achieved through this program could also be achieved through the type of program that the USA Freedom Act would put in place, which is to say that the NSA could go to the phone companies and say, look, we've got a number. This number is up to no good. Whoever's using this number is involved in a terrorists ring, or is involved in foreign intelligence gathering against us. We need to collect any telephone information that we can get that's connected to this number, that's within two degrees of separation from this number. That would do the job just fine and it would do so in a way that's respectful of the privacy and the civil liberties of the American people.

COSTELLO: Senator Mike Lee, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.

LEE: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, grenades and explosives? Texas police now are - Texas police are worried about a new threat from that biker gang. We'll talk about that next.

[09:44:44] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A chilling warning for Texas troopers and other officers this morning.

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COSTELLO (voice-over): Members of the Bandidos, one of the biker gangs involved in that deadly brawl in Waco, are now targeting law enforcement allegedly in retaliation for the police's role in the shoot-out.

CNN's Alina Machado is in Waco with more for you.

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COSTELLO (on camera): Good morning.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. The Texas Department of Public Safety has issued a warning saying that certain Bandido members have given the group C4 explosives and grenades to be used to retaliate against police for the deadly shoot-out that happened here over the weekend. Now, the bulletin named some specific target locations, in the McLennan County jail here in Waco, Texas, as well as several cities in the state, namely Houston, Austin, and El Paso. It also warns of plots possibly targeting high ranking law enforcement officials with car bombs, and it mentions possibly even targeting the officials' family members. Now, the bulletin is based on unsubstantiated information from an

informant who claims to have gotten it from members of the Bandidos and another group called The Black Widows. Police here in Waco, Texas, have already been on high alert following the shooting. They say they are aware of this new threat, but have not said, Carol, what they are going to be doing differently in light of this new one.

Carol?

COSTELLO: All right, Alina Machado reporting live from Waco, Texas, this morning. Thank you.

A man accused in a gruesome attack against a D.C. family will be in court at 1:00 p.m. eastern time today.

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COSTELLO (voice-over): Police say Daron Wint's DNA was found on a slice of pizza that was delivered to home during the murders. My next guest says Daron Wint, though, is a nice guy, someone you'd want your grandmother to have lunch with. The attorney's name is Robin Ficker. He's represented Wint during six previous cases. He joins me now over the phone from Washington.

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COSTELLO (on camera): Good morning, sir.

ROBIN FICKER, FMR. ATTORNEY FOR DARON WINT (via telephone): Good morning. And I might point out that he was not found guilty in any of those cases. There has been a rush to judgment, a group grope (ph). He is presumed innocent. It's important to remember that.

COSTELLO: Well, let me ask you this. Are you going to represent Mr. Wint in his upcoming - or, you know, in his initial appearance in court today?

FICKER: I have not been retained in the case. I know his family is financially challenged. As far as I know, the public defender will be at that 1:00 hearing today.

[09:50:20] COSTELLO: A lot of people are saying, though, really, he's a nice guy? I mean, according to "The Washington Post" the same man that you're talking about, his father, his own father, had to get a restraining order against him because he feared violence from his son.

FICKER: Well, he's had a problem with his father. I've got three kids, they've all had a problem with me at some point. They didn't seek a restraining order, but we've had discussions. You don't want a little wuss for a child who doesn't argue with you. You want someone who can think on their own and there may have been disagreements, but his family loves him.

COSTELLO: Mr. Ficker, come on. Most people do not threaten their father with violence to the point that the father has to go to the police and get a restraining order.

FICKER: I agree. I agree with that. But also in custody matters, everyone knows that these restraining orders are used as a weapon in custody battles and that may have been involved in this.

COSTELLO: I don't think it was somehow. In 2009, this man was convicted of assault, by the way. So, he was convicted of a violent act.

FICKER: Well, you know, I have an office down the street from a major university in the state of Maryland, and I have represented hundreds of young men that have got into a tussle at some point or another. That doesn't mean they are bad people. That doesn't mean they killed four people. Keep in mind that the pizza was delivered outside the house. The DNA on the pizza crust was found, if it really was his DNA, found in a dumpster outside the house. There's no DNA on any victim. There's no DNA inside the house. The money was not found in his car. There were no weapons on him or anyone else that was arrested even though the police said he was armed and dangerous.

COSTELLO: Let me challenge you.

FICKER: They were wrong.

COSTELLO: Let me challenge you on those things. First of all, we don't know what police got out of that house because they're not releasing any information. For all I know his fingerprints are all over the house. We just don't know that yet, sir. And for another reason...

FICKER: Well, we don't know that they weren't.

COSTELLO: If you're an innocent man...

FICKER: How come the police released the information...

COSTELLO: If you're an innocent man, why didn't he turn himself over to police?

FICKER: Why would they release information about DNA on a pizza crust and not DNA in the house where the crime occurred?

COSTELLO: Well, I guess my final question to you is, if -- why didn't he just turn himself over to police if he's completely innocent of this crime?

FICKER: I think he's certainly presumed innocent and everyone should believe that because you never know when your listeners might be charged and they want a presumption of innocence.

COSTELLO: All right, Robin Ficker. Thanks for being with me this morning. I appreciate it. I'll be right back.

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[09:57:15] COSTELLO: A scandal for one of TV's most conservative reality TV show families.

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COSTELLO (voice-over): Josh Duggar from the show "19 Kids and Counting" is publicly apologizing. This after reports surface that as a teenager he was investigated for molesting girls. Duggars' alleged offenses: forceable fondling and sexual assault. He's calling his actions inexcusable today. As you know, the Duggars are well-known for being devout Christians, implementing strict courting rules, no kissing or hand holding before marriage. A staunch Republican, Josh has recently hit the campaign trail. Here he is seen alongside Rick Santorum and Ted Cruz. He even spoke at the high-profile conservative conference CPAC back in February. TLC reportedly canned child star "Honey Boo Boo" after finding out Mama June was dating a child molester. So, could the Duggars face a similar fate? Brian Stelter is following this controversy for us.

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COSTELLO (on camera): Good morning.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Tell us more.

STELTER: Well, actually, you mentioned Mama June, you mentioned that reality show. She's actually come out and say this is not fair. She says there's a different treatment happening for the Duggars in this case. What's interesting to me, Carol, is that TLC is just totally ignoring this story publicly. They're not commenting at all, they're not answering our questions about what is going to happen to the show "19 Kids and Counting," which is one of their most valuable franchises.

As you know, though, a lot of TLC shows have been embroiled in controversy before, not controversies quite like this, but other big controversies in the past. Usually the network actually leans in, continues to show the program, continues to in some cases incorporate the story or the drama into the reality show. You know, last night they ran a marathon of these episodes and that got a lot of people angry online. People saying it was just completely inappropriate to be showing a marathon of all of these episodes when this was becoming a big story. And of course at the heart of this are a family, number of families that were affected by this person's behavior a number of years ago. We haven't really heard from the victims in this case yet.

COSTELLO: Well, I guess one of the differences between the "Honey Boo Boo" saga and this is Josh Duggar came out, admitted that this happened, admitted he was wrong. He said he underwent counseling. Will that matter?

STELTER: It very well may matter. The show very well may address this, you know, in future episodes. TLC depends on shows like these, depends on reality franchises like this and believes that the cast members are really well-known to the viewers at home and that the viewers at home want to see the cast members when they have to go through family crisis and things like that.

You know, in this case we saw Josh Duggar leave the Family Research Council, a conservative group here in Washington known for its social conservative stances. There's a lot of people online just calling this man a hypocrite, you know, for his positions against gay marriage, for example, and yet keeping this part of his life a secret and not sharing what had happened in his past. So, there's a lot - all that kind of commentary online that I think will continue in the days to come even as TLC and for now the family declined to comment beyond the family's apology yesterday.

COSTELLO: All right. I'm sure you'll keep an eye on it. Brian Stelter reporting live from Washington this morning. The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

We begin in the nation's capital where a suspected killer linked to the horrific slaying of a prominent D.C. family is now behind bars.

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