Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Cleveland Police Officer Acquitted of All Charges in Shooting Deaths of Unarmed Couple; Washington, DC, Murder Suspect Daron Wint Captured; Major Flooding in Texas and Oklahoma; Omaha Police Officer Killed Just Before Her Maternity Leave to be Laid to Rest Tuesday; Some Republicans May Have What is Becoming Called a Josh Duggar Problem; Helping Veterans to Find Jobs; Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 23, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:19] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: 3:00 eastern, I'm Poppy Harlow joining you live from New York.

And we begin with breaking news out of Cleveland where the verdict in a police shooting trial has yet another American city on edge. Just hours ago Officer Michael Brelo was acquitted of all charges surrounding the deaths of an unarmed couple back in November of 2012. The shooting has come to be known locally as 137 shots. That is the number of times that officer Brelo and his 12 other police colleagues fired into the car of Timothy Russell and Melissa Williams. The shots were fired at the conclusion of a high-speed chase, one that began when Russell's car backfired. That backfire noise is what the officers say they thought was gunshots. It turns out Russell and Williams were both unarmed.

During today's ruling, Judge John O'Donnell talked about the national environment in which this verdict was just handed down. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE JOHN O'DONNELL, CUYAHOGA COUNTY, OHIO: In many American places, people are angry with, mistrusting and fearful of the police. Citizens think the men and women sworn to protect and serve have violated that oath or never meant it in the first place. Some of these places are long familiar -- New York City and Baltimore. Some were unfamiliar until incident here laid bare the divide between the people and the police -- Ferguson, Missouri, North Charleston and South Carolina.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That coming from the judge who found Michael Brelo not guilty on all counts. Outside of the courtroom, emotions ran high. One woman went inconsolably on the courtroom steps. The mayor of Cleveland has asked for his city to remain calm and so far that has been the case.

Our Ryan Young joins me now from Cleveland. Ryan, you were inside the courtroom when this verdict was read. What

was the feeling inside? Were people surprised? I know the judge had a big lead-up to the final word.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He did, Poppy. So many emotions here, in fact I think some people were concerned when the judge brought in the mannequins that showed all the shots that were fired during this encounter, 137. That's so much that you hear throughout Cleveland because people were talking about the number of shots that were fired.

But as you start to detail all the things that were alleged, you could tell it was going one direction. Now, these officers still may be fired. But I want to show you something, Poppy. We decided to come across the street because this is outside the court area. And all the protesters were kind of standing back this direction and then they made that surge forward. I can tell you the sheriff's office handled that pretty well. They came out. They make sure they established that line and said, hey, you guys can't go any further than this.

People were chanting here for about two hours and then took to the streets of Cleveland. The officers kept a barricade between them and the traffic and they marched on. They have been marching throughout the city for about the last two hours or so but that is starting to dissolve to a certain extent.

We have also been told more protests are planned for later. Now, there are some folks who didn't feel like marching throughout the city. They are actually just standing over here in this location. And we're told in the next half hour or so more people could be coming here outside the justice center to have this conversation.

But we talked to the pastor in this area, a couple of pastors in this area, who were telling us they have been working for months to make sure when this verdict came down, there wasn't the unrest they have seen across the country. But everyone has their fingers crossed to get through this weekend because they thought with this being a holiday weekend, so many people may be dispersed. It may take a few hours before people show up here.

Talking to the Williams family, really, they were very upset. Her brother says he will not stop until justice is served. They really believe there was a miscarriage of justice here. And now, their family has been left out in the cold after 137 shots were fired. One of the things they kept saying, they were unarmed. They were unarmed.

Talking to Michael Brelo's attorney, he believes there's been a rush to judgment. He feels the officers have been involved in this have been lumped into the rest of the nation. He wants to make sure that each case be evaluated differently.

HARLOW: But then as you know, Ryan, we heard the judge, Judge O'Donnell, say it is not whether or not they were armed, it is what the officer perceived. And he found cause there saying it was correct. He believes that the officers perceived that they were indeed armed. We'll talk a lot more about that this afternoon throughout the program. Ryan young, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Well, Officer Michael Brelo's attorney spoke just moments after this verdict was handed down. We want you to hear part of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:04:57] PATRICK D'ANGELO, OFFICER BRELO'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We fought tooth and nail, as you saw in this courtroom. It was classically a case of David versus goliath. And at the end, you saw lawyering at I think it is very highest level in this courtroom, and I don't say that as a braggart. I'm proud to have played a role in this case. And I hope that all the naysayers out there, all the so-called plaintiffs lawyers that claim that they're civil rights lawyers and never have tried one of these damn cases for a verdict but they're out there for a money grab all the time. Officer Brelo as the judge's opinion set forth risked his life on that night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Well, images of the bullet-riddled car unmistakable, but Judge O'Donnell ruled that Officer Brelo's actions at the end of the chase, jumping onto the car, stomping on it in the middle of the school parking lot, firing those final 15 shots were constitutionally justifiable because it was not clear, the judge said, that any perceived threat to the officers had ended.

A lot to discuss. Let's bring in criminal defense attorney and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson. Also with me a former police officer himself, also former FBI assistant director and CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.

To you both and Joey, let me begin with you. Are you -- just your reaction to hearing what the attorney for the officer had to say there?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: I mean, listen, these trials are always hard-fought battles and I get that, but the judge could have went either way. I don't know, you know, you can do the most fabulous lawyering in the universe and lose a case. You can do the worst lawyering and you can win a case. And it comes down to this, Poppy.

Whenever you have a bench trial, remember that the judge is operating as the trier of fact and the concluder of law. So the judge is putting himself in the position of a jury and the judge is processing those facts. And as the judge evaluated and went through the opinion, in giving the opinion, remember, he discredited some expert testimony. And that was very critical because it was expert testimony which would tend to show that the fatal shot was indeed fired by Brelo. So if you come to the conclusion as a juror, which was judge was in the role of, that Brelo did fire that critical shot that was fatal, guess what, it's an entirely different result here. And the judge decided not to credit that expert testimony.

HARLOW: Why? JACKSON: Because there was too much -- what the judge basically said

was there was a causation issue. Wherever you have a shootout where there's 137 shots that are fired coming from various angles, and the judge took the unusual step of, a, taking an hour to deliver the opinion, Poppy, in addition to walking down and talking about the mannequins and talking about the trajectories of different bullets, where the angles came from and before Brelo was at the time. So this particular judge decided not to credit expert testimony that would have him firing, Brelo, the fatal shot and as a result of that said causation in terms of who fired that fatal shot could not be established and, therefore, not guilty.

HARLOW: But Joey, I automatically thought and I think a lot of our viewers are probably thinking, why is this not a case that was heard by a jury, a jury of one's peers when you're talking about two civilians killed? Why a bench trial?

JACKSON: Because the defense opted to waive their right to a jury. Remember the constitutional rights that apply -- apply to the individual that stands accused. If you stand accused, as the defense attorney you have to make a decision. Obviously, the attorney doesn't stand accused, but you have to make a decision. What's best for my client? Is it better to go to a jury of my peers there in Cleveland or is it best to take the emotional elements out of it and have a judge evaluate it based upon the facts, the underlying circumstances. And this proved to be a very good move strategically for the defense because the judge in his analysis analyzed it and said causation cannot be established. That bullet was not the straw as the judge said that broke the camel's back. It may have been a fatal shot but we can't say that it was the fatal shot and as a result of it said not guilty.

HARLOW: Tom Fuentes, your perspective as a former police officer looking at this. This is also to put this in context, this is also a Cleveland police department that was reviewed by the justice department and the justice department found rampant cases of excessive force used by the department. So this is already a department under review and guidance of some experts to retrain them going forward. What's your assessment of the outcome here?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, the problem here, Poppy, is that all of the activities of the Cleveland police department going back several years weren't on trial and the other 11 or 12 officers that fired over 100 shots weren't on trial. So you have one officer who fired, you know, a number of shots. And as Joey said, you know, to be able to say whether he fired the fatal shot, you know, couldn't be exactly determined or the judge chose not to listen to expert testimony, which is his prerogative as the trier of fact. And, you know, that's what you have here.

So I think that, you know, a lot of the outrage of this case is that over 100 shots, that many police officers, that many police officers involved in the pursuit was clearly excessive. And I think any reasonable police officer would agree that in totality it was excessive. But the totality wasn't on trial. It was one cop firing the shots he fired at that car with the belief that possibly there was still a situation where his life might be in jeopardy.

[15:10:33] HARLOW: And what we do know is that the Cleveland police department still has Officer Brelo on paid administrative leave. They're doing their own review of him, the other 12 officers, and we don't know what may become of that. They may be punished or charges as a result.

Tom Fuentes, appreciate the perspective. Joey Jackson as well.

Two people killed in a hail of bullets, but ultimately a judge ruled that the Cleveland police officers, as I just said, Michael Brelo's actions were justified. Today's verdict garnered swift and emotional reaction. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHELLE RUSSELL, SISTER OF TIMOTHY RUSSELL: We don't know why they didn't pull over, but I can tell you what I do know. I know that those officers were upset. Adrenaline was flowing. By the time they reached up, caught up to Tim and Melissa in that parking lot, they simply let them have it.

Tim was a loving person. You know, he was a forgiving person. He would have said we're going to love them anyway. We're going to pray for them.

D'ANGELO: One of our citizens was taken on by the state of Ohio. We fought tooth and nail, as you saw in this courtroom. It was classically a case of David versus Goliath.

TIMOTHY MCGINLY, PROSECUTOR, CUYAHOGA COUNTY, OHIO: I am convinced that this prosecution in this case will prevent future deaths of police and civilians in the future.

MAYOR FRANK JACKSON, MAYOR: While we encourage and support peaceful protests. I want to make sure that those who are here that have a different agenda understand that actions that cross the line, whether by police officers or citizens, cannot and will not be tolerated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want -- we want justice for Tim and Melissa, but we want people to see the Tim that we knew. You know, because the public, they have tarnished him, just made him like he was a thug or a drug -- just a drug addict, you know, on the street without family that loved him, that our family didn't care for him. But this is an example of what Tim was. He had a heart of gold. And they took that from us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: We're going to have a lot more on this verdict ahead.

Also, the department of justice we now know is reviewing this case. We'll have the details of that. A live report from Washington, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:16:08] HARLOW: Right now fierce and major flooding in Texas and Oklahoma. Moments ago flash flood warnings were issued for several counties in Oklahoma. We have just received this video. It comes to us from Wichita Falls, Texas, where three to five inches of rain have pelted several counties in just the last few hours.

Our Alina Machado is live for us in Wichita Falls, Texas.

Alina, were they expecting this?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they have been talking about this for a few days now, Poppy. And this area is no stranger to this kind of potential flooding. Back in 2007 they had record level flooding in this area. I want to show you what this situation is like here in this subdivision called Tanglewood.

You see these homes, a lot of these homes have sandbags out covering their front doors, the garages, 25,000 sandbags have been delivered to Wichita Falls. The National Guard is here, also assisting in the efforts to prepare ahead of the storm.

And this is why. This is the area that is going to flood if it floods here. There's already water creeping up behind these houses. There's water making its way to the road. This road is passable. There are some people, you're going to see a car right now go through, which is exactly what they don't want people to do, but it's not as deep as you would imagine. So this road is not actually closed, even though there is water on the road right now.

The hope here is that obviously the waters don't rise as high as they're expecting. But Poppy, I've got to tell you, from talking to people here, they are definitely worried about what could happen if they see the rain that they have been forecasting.

HARLOW: No question. I mean Texas has been hit over and over again already this storm season. The last thing they need is severe flooding.

Alina, thanks for that. Appreciate it. We will keep a close eye on it.

Also coming up next, a horrific murder case of a family in Washington, D.C., a lawyer for the suspect who was arrested after that huge manhunt this week says a key piece of evidence is flawed. We'll talk about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[15:20:00] DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): The fit nation team is halfway to their goal of competing in the Nautica Malibu triathlon this September. Last week they got together in southern California to swim, bike, run, and have a little fun. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have never been someone I thought that would

inspire people to go work out of all things, but you know, that's been interesting. They're like oh, yes, we saw this or we saw that on facebook. We saw that on CNN. So yes, I got off the couch and went to go do this. Or I went and ran three miles because I saw that you went and did this. That's been a good by product of what we're trying to do.

GUPTA: They have made great progress over the first four months, losing weight, getting in shape, mentally and physically. And all six are ready to take on their race.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To be able to have that process put in front of you and that guidance and the help and the family atmosphere, it's been amazing.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Chilling new development in the Washington, D.C., quadruple murder case. Prosecutors now say the man accused of killing a wealthy couple, their 10-year-old son and their housekeeper could not have acted alone.

Court documents just released on Friday say the prime suspect, Daron Wint, and others carried out the brutal murder inside of that family's home. We now know the victims were found with duct tape and held hostage for hours before they were brutally murdered. Also a delivery of $40,000 was made to the house, and then that house was set on fire.

The court documents also revealed that three adults, Savvas Savopoulos, his wife, Amy, and their housekeeper, Via Figueroa, were beaten and stabbed. The 10-year-old boy, their son, was also stabbed. He also showed signs of excessive torture.

Let's bring in our CNN analyst to talk about this. Joining me here on studio, criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson and in Washington, former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes.

Tom, let's begin with this. What at the scene can tip -- at a burnt scene, by the way, a burnt-down house, can tip off police to make them so certain that one person didn't carry this off alone?

FUENTES: Well, I think, Poppy, first of all, the house didn't burn enough to obliterate all evidence inside of it, so the forensic search that went on inside, they would be looking for any and all DNA, skin particles, hair follicles, hairs and fibers from other people. And then matching that against the people that had been in the house legitimately, the family members, the two housekeepers, whether the boy had friends over or the adults had friends over.

So they would have to match everybody else's and then look for additional DNA that normally didn't belong there, especially if it was around the bodies. You figure for the amount of time that this home invasion lasted, more than 18 hours, you know, they could have been going through drawers, touching the refrigerator, looking for things to eat or drink, silverware, cups, glasses, all of that would be possibly leaving fingerprints and DNA from skin particles and hair follicles.

So that's the main part of the forensic. And if they have found indications that other people were in there that haven't been identified that don't belong, then that would be a clue to them that there's somebody else involved besides Wint.

[15:25:39] HARLOW: And Joey, one of the things as we talk about that is the fact that the key witness, Mr. Savopoulos' assistant, right, the one who brought over the $40,000 in cash, has apparently according to these court documents changed his story a few times about when the request for the money was made, how it was dropped off. I wonder what you make of that. Is that typical of someone who's in trauma, who's obviously lost their boss in a horrific, very public murder, or is that suspect?

JACKSON: You know, interestingly enough, Poppy, there's two ways to explain it. The one, if course, is as you mentioned there's an innocent explanation. You're in shock, it's a very traumatic experience so as a result of that, OK, you can make a mistake, that's plausible.

The other way though, is the more nefarious way and that is there are basic things you'd know. In the event that your boss asked you to bring over some type of cash, well, did he text you the night before or did he text you the day of? That seems to be pretty basic, not requiring a lot of memory.

The other thing in terms of how you stack the cash, the bundles you made of the cash and what envelope you put it in, again, pretty basic. And so to the extent that it's not, it just raises questions. Now, you could be sure and Tom could certainly address this much more thoroughly than I could that the investigation is going to entail the computer records of this particular assistant, any text messages, any phone records, any surveillance information, that is going to play big.

And one other critical point, Poppy, and just to add on to what Tom Fuentes was saying regarding the DNA, DNA is important not only to include suspects but to exclude suspects as well. In addition to that, I think police are concerned that based upon the nature of how this occurred, the blunt force trauma, the gagging, the coordination in terms of getting the money, it speaks to more people being involved.

HARLOW: And I also did want to ask you about that. Because look, the motive is a key thing here and the police have not, Tom, come up with yes, we think this is the motive. They believe they said money was a big part of it. But looking at the savagery of how this crime was carried out, duct taping them, torturing a 10-year-old boy, do you think, Tom, that speaks to a crime just about money?

FUENTES: No, it would indicate that, you know, there's a lot more to this in terms of, as you're mentioning, revenge or retribution against the family to make them suffer. Now, we know that Wint worked at that company. We don't know what the circumstances were. Did he know the boss? Did he have an altercation? Did he get fired? Did he have other problems in his employment there? So, you know, there could be other factors here at a personal level that the police will learn in their investigation that may not come out publicly right away.

HARLOW: All right, Joey Jackson, Tom Fuentes. It is a tragic, tragic story. We'll keep you posted on the leads.

Also ahead, Cleveland's mayor pleading for peace in his city after the verdict in a controversial police shooting. Will his request be enough to keep people off of the streets, or if they're protesting, to do so peacefully. More on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:31:37] HARLOW: Protesters are in the streets of downtown Cleveland following a verdict in yet another police shooting. Just hours ago Officer Michael Brelo was acquitted of all counts in the deaths of an unarmed couple back in November of 2012. He and 12 other colleagues fired a total of 137 shots at the couple's car after the car backfired. Officers thought the noise was gunshots. The mayor of Cleveland was quick to speak, urging peace instead of violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

F. JACKSON: I want to emphasize that this is a defining moment for Cleveland. As we look at this verdict and we respond to that verdict and we as a city move ahead in a way that will ensure that whatever injustices may be will no longer happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Following that verdict being handed down, the department of justice says it will review the case.

Let's go straight to Washington. That's where Athena Jones joins us.

And Athena, important to note, this is not the DOJ launching an investigation, this is a review.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Poppy. This is not a full-scale civil rights investigation, it's a review. We know the statement from the civil rights division of the department of justice, also from the special agent in charge of the Cleveland FBI and the U.S. attorney for the northern district in Ohio. They have been monitoring this case, monitoring the investigation since the events occurred back in November of 2012. And so they are going to be continuing their assessment, reviewing the testimony and the evidence presented in the state trial. They'll be reviewing all available legal options and will collaboratively determine what, if any, additional steps are available and appropriate given the requirements and limitations of federal law.

But I should point out, you know, even if there were to be a full- scale investigation, there's a very, very high bar from bringing federal charges in these cases. You didn't see federal charges in Ferguson, Missouri or, in the Michael Brown shooting or in the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

HARLOW: Very good point. Look, this follows, Athena, right, a broader DOJ investigation for two years of the Cleveland police department. It started in 2012. It just ended last year.

JONES: That's right. So this police department was already on the justice department's radar, already under some intense scrutiny. That two-year investigation showed that the Cleveland police department had engaged in a pattern of excessive force. There are numerous examples. And in fact, this case was one of the ones that was cited. And so, this is not a new issue for the Cleveland police department accusations of excessive use of force.

And as a result of that finding in that justice department report that was released last December, they developed what they called a court enforceable consent decree. And that's so that they can work together with the federal government to make necessary reforms of the Cleveland police department -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Right. And of course those are two separate things, that investigation and then this trial where, again, Officer Brelo was found not guilty on all counts.

Athena, thank you very much.

While Cleveland is in an uproar over the shooting, Omaha, Nebraska, is mourning an officer, a hero, a new mother, killed in the line of duty. We'll discuss that next.

Also how it highlights the troubles facing police these days.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[15:38:39] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of kids never really left the city. To them everything is concrete.

Is everybody excited?

I decided to take kids who have never had my kind of experience on these mountain bike rides. OK, you guys, let's hit the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wasn't trying to school. I was getting straight Fs and got expelled. We go on bike rides and I kind of feel like it clears my mind.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looking good.

I've been doing this for almost 30 years. You bring them where there are no buildings. It is like, wow, I didn't know that this exists. And then we have our "Earn a Bike" program, where kids in the community come after school. What's wrong with it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chain.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So the chain is loose?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They learn how to work on bikes and earn points toward bikes of their own.

That looks great.

They learn good job skills. This bike is getting quite an overhaul.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I have As and Bs. They're like my guide to a better life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:39:54] HARLOW: An Omaha police officer shot and killed just hours before her maternity leave will be laid to rest on Tuesday. Flags have been lowered to half-staff for Officer Kerrie Orozco. She was part of a fugitive task force trying to serve an arrest warrant on Wednesday when a gun battle broke out. She died after being struck in the chest right above her bulletproof vest.

In February, she gave birth to a beautiful little girl. The baby, who was born prematurely, was finally set to leave the hospital and to go home with her mother this week, but Orozco never got that chance to take her daughter home.

Let's talk more about this case with Michael Daly, a special correspondent for "the Daily Beast." You wrote a beautiful piece about her. As you were reporting on this woman, this 29-year-old who had everything, you see her family here, what stood out to you here?

MICHAEL DALY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY BEAST: She not only had everything, she gave everything. And it's -- you know, this was the cop that all cops should be. I mean she -- when she was not on patrol, she was coaching inner city kids in baseball, she was working special Olympics, she was in a program called shop with a cop where she took homeless kids shopping at Christmastime and she was there. And then -- but the thing that's about is that she had this baby in February. She decided that it would be best to spend the time rather than spend her maternity leave while the baby is in the hospital. She thought I'll use that maternity leave for those first magical days at home with a baby. And if you had a baby, those are the days -- she decided to put it off and she was supposed to pick up the baby and begin her maternity leave on Thursday. Wednesday afternoon she's on surveillance for guys wanted in a shooting. They see the guy. The guy sees them. The guy starts firing. She's hours away from picking up her baby. She knows this.

HARLOW: And she still runs towards him.

DALY: She does not hide. She doesn't duck behind. She doesn't say to somebody else, I've got a baby, you go. She does what she is. She's a cop, and she goes and she goes right into harm's way. The way fate sometimes works, and she just caught a round right above her bulletproof vest. It was like of all the times, of all the places to get hit, of all the cops, this was the one you just didn't want to see.

HARLOW: Her colleague yesterday on CNN calling her an angel. That's the way that they described her. She looks angelic. When you look at the focus on the police in communities, so look what we're covering in Cleveland today, right? There's such a tendency and sort of easy to focus on that, but actually you have to focus on people like this too.

DALY: You've got to remember her. You can't -- I mean we all owe it to her little kid to remember her and they just -- he has footage from Cleveland point his finger and screaming at the cops.

HARLOW: Right.

DALY: I mean, who does he know what that particular cop is? If he has a problem what certain cops did, I mean, that's what they should be protesting. But, you know, to lump all cops together, and said the cops did this, racist cops did this, cops did that -- I mean.

HARLOW: And you've written very critically about police when they do do wrong.

DALY: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean -- and I think each one of those things, you have to look at it like a plane wreck. All right, what caused this here in this particular instance? But what you can't do is you can't forget the good ones.

HARLOW: As you wrote in your piece at the end, what we all need to do for this child, this little baby girl who is now growing up without a mother, is we all -- we all owe something to that child. What do you think other people can do?

DALY: Well, I mean if nothing else, you can remember her when people start talking about "the police" in a lump. And remember what she did and the way she was. And you can also maybe try being a little decent in the way she was, to help make the world a little better yourself. You know, if you've got a free Saturday afternoon, go do something for some kids. If you've got a few extra dollars, take a couple kids shopping. You can use her as an example. If you're not going to use her as an example, at least remember her. At least don't lump all cops together. No matter what you feel about the police. I don't think there's any sane human being who could not honor this woman, no matter what you feel about other cops.

HARLOW: I agree with that. We'll remember her.

Michael Daly, thanks so much. It's a beautiful tribute. Good to have you on the program.

HARLOW: Coming up in the next hour, we're going to talk to her colleague, Officer Kerrie Orozco's colleague who remembers her so fondly. Also, we are going to talk to one of her friends about how they are coping and how they are trying to keep her memory alive for her little girl. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:48:30] HARLOW: Some Republicans may have what is becoming called a Josh Duggar problem. What are we talking about? Well, some of the presidential GOP candidates and also likely candidates have posed for photos with the Christian conservative reality television star.

Let's be really clear. This was long before any of the scandal surrounding him emerged this week. And Duggar apologized for reports that he allegedly molested girls including his own sisters while he was a teenager.

Hire is Duggar with Mike Huckabee, also with Wisconsin governor Scott Walker. Here he is with former governor Jeb Bush, also posing with Senator Ted Cruz and former senator Rick Santorum. A picture of him was also taken with former president Bill Clinton in 2011.

Well, just yesterday, TLC, that network, pulled all episodes of the shows of "19 kids and counting" off the air.

CNN political reporter Alexandra Jaffe who joins me now to talk more about it.

You know, it is interesting, as I was reading about this, as it was breaking this week, it is true that you have him as sort of a political heavy weight, right? He was running a big right wing group, but at the same time, do you think this hurts these candidates at all given that no one apparently knew out these allegations until this week?

ALEXANDRA JAFFE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That is absolutely the argument they can make. And as you said, he was the head of this lobbying, you know, arm of this organization. So his job was to meet with these candidates and these politicians. But at the same time, the next question after that is knowing what you know now, do you still support him? And that's where it gets a little bit tougher for them.

[15:50:00] HARLOW: While Mike Huckabee, I mean, it's fascinating, Mike Huckabee came out with a long facebook post yesterday supporting him saying, quote, "good people make mistakes and do regrettable even disgusting things." He went on to sort of point to the insensitive blood thirst, as he calls it of the media. Why would Huckabee do that? Is that a good strategy for a candidate for president?

JAFFE: Well, it is not entirely surprising. Duggars were an early supporter of him and sort of put him on the map in 2008 when he ran for president. They helped him the Iowa caucuses. Because you have to remember, they're pretty key. They hold a lot of sway over evangelical Christians, which are a key voting bloc in the Republican Party.

So you know, I hate to say this is a political calculation, but for Mike Huckabee's presidential sort of thoughts, he needs to again play very well in Iowa, so he needs to again show this strength and show the support for evangelical Christians. HARLOW: When you look at this, the familiar research council, right,

that is very prominent group that he was had. He's stepped down from that roll, but as I mentioned before, also Duggar took a picture with President Clinton, both at the "Today" show in 2011. So, is this just a Republican GOP issue?

JAFFE: Well, we haven't seen them sort of campaign for democratic candidates the way they've campaigned for Republicans, right. And you did see an active effort for lobbying the Duggars for their support going into 2016, just like I said. They are a significant sort of political force. So it raises these questions for the Republican party, how do you espouse, you know, Christian conservative values when you may be supporting a family that may be a little hypocritical on that issue. And I think we'll be getting a better handle on how they answer that question this week on the campaign trail. We haven't really seen that yet.

HARLOW: I think Mike Huckabee made it very clear that he's going to be coming out with a very strong opinion either way on issues just like this. You haven't heard from any of these other folks by the way in the photos.

JAFFE: Yes.

HARLOW: Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Good to have you on the show, Alexandra.

Also, you can read all our coverage for the race for the White House because it is on, the best political team in television, of course, has it all for you on CNN.com/politics.

In just nine days, the key section of the patriot act that supporters argue is critical to our nation's security will not exist anymore. It will expire on June 1st. This follows a dramatic and rare overnight showdown in the senate last night. Senators blocking two separate measures to extend the NSA's ability to quote "bulk collect all of that telephone data." The opposition was led by Republican senator and presidential candidate Rand Paul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: We have entered into a momentous debate. This is a debate about whether or not a warrant with a single name of a single company can be used to collect all the records, all the phone records of all the people in our country with single warrant. Our forefathers would be aghast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: But his fellow Republican Senator Mitch McConnell was stunned ordered the lawmakers to return from their break next Sunday, the 31st of May to vote on this, one day before it is due to expire. Next hour I'll speak with a member of the house intelligence committee over the fight for this law.

And the Memorial Day weekend is here and we remember the sacrifice of veterans who defended our country, but also those who gave their lives for this nation. Ahead, meet a veteran who is helping a lot of these fellow veterans overcome one of their biggest challenges when they come home. What he's doing next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:57:07] HARLOW: For many veterans, as tough as war was, returning home comes with an entire new set of challenges, finding a job, transitioning back into civilian life. It is very difficult.

Let's bring in someone who knows about that and who was helping solve the issue, Cade Courtley, former Navy Seal sniffer, founder of doorbean.com, a new company that sells coffee door to door online, have it delivered. And as you said, let's sell little coffee and let's help some veterans as well. Thanks for being here.

CADE COURTLEY, FOUNDER, DOORBEAN.COM: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

HARLOW: I reported a lot on this. And the real challenge because so many times employers can't or fail to work hard enough to really translate the resume of veterans to figure out what good employees they would be. So what's your goal?

COURTLEY: To try and get the word out and really educate some of these folks who have the opportunity to employ veterans that the resume might not match up, but you need to understand that the amazing intangible qualities you're getting from the men and women that served our country, they will figure out how to get the job done, they will exceed your expectations. And I'm really asking folks out there, hey, if you're hiring, consider hiring a vet.

HARLOW: Look. When you look at the unemployment numbers, the unemployment rate for post 9/11 veterans, the younger veterans, is almost seven percent. That's higher than the 5.4 percent national average. What is the number one thing that needs to happen to help that numbers drop especially for these young vet?

COURTLEY: Well, I'd like to talk about another number real quick. We're losing 23 veterans a day to suicide. And most of these folks are just looking for a new mission, a new family, a new team, and basically to get that sense of identity back that they had when they were in the military. And so, if we can get these folks to basically start their next mission, give them a new this new job, give them a new sort of direction in life, surround them by some good folks, and that number will start dropping as quickly as the unemployment number.

HARLOW: I think it's been really -- I'm hopeful seeing these big companies like Walmart, JPMorgan, Starbucks, hiring veterans. Walmart just announced this week they're hiring -- expanding their projection of hiring 100,000 by 2018 to 250,000 by 2020. It's not just about getting them in the door, though, right? It's also about helping them advance to higher-up positions once they're in there.

COURTLEY: It is. But it's -- at very first, you need to give them the opportunity. I mean it. They will figure it out. The things that these folks have been exposed to either in Iraq or Afghanistan, OK, yes, terrible, nasty stuff, they had to figure out a way to overcome and take the missions successful. They will definitely do that for you here. You just have to give them a try and you really do. And you know, Memorial Day, honestly, we're remembering those who we have lost, but let's not forget those folks that we still have with us here that can contribute to society in a great way.

HARLOW: Absolutely will not. You're certainly giving them a lot of that opportunity.

Cade, thanks for all you do and thanks for serving this country.

COURTLEY: Thank you very much.