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Dr. Drew

Josh Duggar Alleged to Have Sexually Abused Five Girls When He Was 14; B.B. King`s Cause of Death Being Disputed By Two of His Children; Desperate Anorexic Woman Uses Social Media to Beg for Help; Deceased Puerto Rican Taxi Driver`s Final Wish - To Be Propped Up Behind the Wheel

Aired May 26, 2015 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(21:00:13) DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Josh Duggar, is he a child molester? A criminal? Both? We are going to talk about what should

happen to him now. And was B.B. King actually murdered, poisoned by those who apparently wanted him dead?

It all starts now with our celebrity behavior. Josh Duggar, the oldest of the 19 children on TLC`s show alleged to have sexually abused

five girls when he was 14. His parents did not report it to police for over a year. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH DUGGAR, TLC`S "19 KIDS AND COUNTING" STAR: Hello, I am Josh Duggar from TLC`s "19 Kids and Counting".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LYNN SMITH, HLN HOST OF "WEEKEND EXPRESS" PROGRAM: 27-year-old Josh Duggar --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): -- is accused of molesting several girls, including some of his siblings when he was 14.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "In Touch" found that Jim Bob Duggar, Josh`s father, told police he was made aware of it in 2002 when

a girl complained Josh, then 14, had been touching her breasts and genitals while she slept.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice-over): And, "19 Kids and Counting" has been a huge hit for TLC.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUGGAR: The pink balloons say it all. We are having a girl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: TLC pulling the show from the schedule and Josh Duggar resigning as executive director of the conservative Family Research

Council.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN STELTER, (ph) CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: TMZ reports that the Oprah Winfrey show was tipped off to Josh`s actions in 2006 prior to an

interview.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Oprah`s team called the child abuse hotline, and police started asking questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining me now, Sam Schacher, "Pop Trigger" on Hulu.com; Mike Catherwood, my co-host on "Love Line" and KABC Radio as well as, Judy Ho,

clinical psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University. All right, sam, when the parents found out, they did not report it. Well, how did they

handle this?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM" OK. So, let us go through the timeline. All right?

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: March 2002, parents became aware of the abuse. March 2003, a year later --

PINSKY: He is 14. They find out about it. 15, a year later, they have done nothing the whole time.

SCHACHER: Done nothing. Swept it under the rug. Ignored it, who knows? March 2003, Josh is sent to a Christian treatment program for four

months. I say treatment very loosely because this counselor was not a certified counselor. It was family friend.

July 2003, parents tell a state trooper about the abuse. This state trooper also happens to be a family friend. July 2003, that same time, the

trooper gives Josh a very stern talk. Does not make a report. And, then we find out "Oh, the trooper is now serving 56 years for child porn

offenses." Yes. Yes.

PINSKY: I mean, this is -- this is reprehensible, right?

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: On all fronts, we have got a trooper that did not do his job. He was a consumer of child pornography. We have a parent that is in

massive denial. We have a kid that is perpetrating. And years go by, who knows what has happened to the victims or how many more victims there have

been. And, then he goes to some kind of cockamamie treatment program. Judy, I mean it is bizarre. So, he is now 27, 14 years later, the guy

still has not had an assessment.

JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That is right. Not even a formal assessment about what the issues were that led him to do that.

PINSKY: What is it? Is this -- is he a pedophile? Or a sexual orientation, not treatable? Perpetrated on many? Was he sexually abused

as a child? Acting out strangely because of that? What the hell?

HO: That is right. And, we cannot trust this family to really tell the truth, right? How many more secrets are there if they have been able

to keep this under tabs for over a decade. And, here is my concern, Dr. Drew.

Just as you said, if this is a child molester and that is the profile, we know that these people are not really rehabilitable, because it is more

like a sexual preference. And, this then more about designing behavioral controls, so they do not hurt other people. But they will not change their

minds.

PINSKY: Josh on Facebook said, quote -- This show he understands what he did. Quote, "12 years ago as a young teenager, I acted inexcusably for

which I extremely sorry and deeply regret. I hurt others including my family and close friends." OK. It is all done. Everything is good now.

Everybody? Mike, it is all done. Let us get on with our lives.

MIKE CATHERWOOD, CO-HOST IN "LOVE LINE": Another thing that I think is. It is so disturbing to me, and I think is overlooked is this kind of

undertone of this antiquated chauvinism where the female children are kind of looked at as substandard to Josh, this man. He was this 14-year-old boy

of the house.

PINSKY: There is bizarre overtones --

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes. You see that?

PINSKY: It pisses me off. The hypocrisy is so real with this family. How dare they shame the LGBT community? How dare they condemn them for

their immoral lifestyle when they are -- when the Duggars are the immoral ones. I say screw you, Jim Bob and Michelle. Screw you.

PINSKY: Do you think the show should be canceled?

SCHACHER: Yes, I think that the show should be canceled, 100 percent.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: I am not sure. I am actually not sure. I mean it is easy to go there -- The people who run TLC, I have known them over the years. They

are very thoughtful people. I am sure they are taking this into consideration. But, how about if we actually get him an assessment and we

document what that is and we can really learn more about what this is? Why it happens?

SCHACHER: Their hate speech alone is enough. Their hate speeches alone to cancel them.

(21:05:00) CATHERWOOD: But, I also think that is for not only TLC to decide, that is for mental health professionals to kind of come in and step

in. There is other things at stake here larger than T.V. ratings or what is important from an entertainment standpoint.

PINSKY: Agreed. In the audience, I have got Lisa Bloom, speaking of a more important issue. I got a trial lawyer at the Bloom Firm and legal

analyst for Avvo. Lisa, my question is could the parents be liable in some way for not having -- certainly ethically there is a problem here. But

legally is there an issue for not having reported anything?

LISA BLOOM, TRIAL LAWYER/LEGAL ANALYST FOR AVVO: Well, I read the entire police report. And, I represent victims especially cases where the

statute of limitations is a problem. And, it might be a problem here.

PINSKY: Yes.

BLOOM: Because in Arkansas, where this happened, it is a three-year statute of limitations, and a victim has until age 21, right? So,

depending on who these victims are --

PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. The victim has until 21?

BLOOM: Until 21. In other words, three years from the age of 18. Three years from age 18.

PINSKY: And that is it? Then it is over?

BLOOM: Well, or three years from the date of discovery.

PINSKY: OK.

BLOOM: But that really applies to repressed memory cases, which I do not think is the case here.

PINSKY: And, the discovery was 2005, legitimately.

BLOOM: But, how old are these victims? Are these his sisters, for example?

SCHACHER: Right. Yes.

BLOOM: Which reading the police report, it sure seems like that is who we are talking about, but we do not know for sure. Some of them are

still under the age of 21. But, do they even want to bring a claim?

Do they want to bring a claim against their own parents, against their brother, against any kind of facility that knew about it and encouraged it?

How about against the police who did not do a report?

PINSKY: What about that?

HO: Wow!

PINSKY: That to me is bizarre.

HO: Right.

BLOOM: It is outrageous.

PINSKY: Yes.

BLOOM: It is corruption. If you are covering up for somebody who is an admitted child molester, because this is your buddy`s kid, that is the

very definition of police corruption.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: But it is corruption -- but it is sort of -- I mean, I guess the guy himself was consuming child pornography.

CATHERWOOD: Yes. What was that stern talk? --

BLOOM: Yes. Why is the guy like that when the police force to begin with?

CATHERWOOD: what was that stern talk that they had? And, like, what was the topic?

PINSKY: This is the part that kills me on this whole thing is both the parents and this trooper, here is what we are going to do. We are

going to teach him what is right and wrong and give him a stern talking to. And, this kid is going to straighten up and fly right. Are you kidding me?

SCHACHER: I know.

PINSKY: That is nothing to do with it. I treat people like this. That is insane.

BLOOM: And, so, manual labor is not a cure for sexual predators.

PINSKY: No. No. It is not.

BLOOM: We do not live in the 19th century anymore.

PINSKY: No. No. It is not, nor is --

BLOOM: And what about the victims?

PINSKY: Oh, please!

BLOOM: There is no concern for the victims at all. Did they get treatment? Did they get therapy?

PINSKY: That is right.

BLOOM: Did they get anyone talking for them?

PINSKY: You got to identify them. Find them and refer them for treatment. And, who know the extent of what he has done. Who knows what

he has done? We do not know anything yet because the whole thing has been swept under the rug for years.

SCHACHER: I am sure they just prayed it away, Dr. Drew. They just prayed it away.

PINSKY: They prayed it away. They stern. They parented it away and they reasoned it away.

CATHERWOOD: Listen to me --

PINSKY: We taught him what is right and what is wrong. That has nothing -- these people know they are doing something wrong when they do

this stuff.

CATHERWOOD: We should have known from the beginning that anybody who is in the family tree of a guy named Jim Bob is automatically guilty of

everything bad.

PINSKY: All right. Next up -- Next up, Josh Duggar has four children. Lisa, you mentioned the other victims there. What about his

children? Are they OK? We do not even know. We are back after this with more.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(21:12:08) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: This is the story of my family. We are the Duggars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH DUGGAR: My siblings, like all others, you know, we were best friends and we were worst enemies at times, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: 27-year-old Josh Duggar was accused of molesting girls back when he was a teenager.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUGGAR: I used to be a used car dealer. And, now I have cleaned up my act and I got into politics.

(LAUGHING)

SIMON: Josh Duggar confessed to his father Jim Bob Duggar, who has apparently waited more than a year before contacting authorities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You are being criticized because you are incredibly, incredibly stupid with the way you handled this with your

child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: We are talking about Josh Duggar. He is now 27. When he was 14, he allegedly molested several what is being called under-aged girls.

But when he was 14, I mean, under-aged for a 14-year-old, we are talking about children. Back with Sam, Mike and Judy.

And, here I got now an opinion piece from "The Washington Post." "Making the case that TLC should not cancel the show." Quote, "Now, it is

the time for TLC to double down and have the courage to present America at last with a truly unscripted show about a family enduring a crisis largely

of its own making.

And, I kind of go with that. Now, I agree with you, Mike, that there may be some issues that make it unsafe and not worth doing. But, listen,

if there is anything good going to come out of this, maybe we can have a discussion about this problem, what needs to be done about it, so people

like this cannot pretend it goes away, pray it away.

And, by the way, I want to show you something, mike. If you guys would go ahead to the quote by the -- I have got a quote from like a pastor

here. This is a Texas pastor whose wife posted the following on Facebook. Quote, "When I was a kid, it was often called, quote, `Playing doctor.`

There was just as many girls initiating this kind of behavior as boys. The 14-year-old boy should probably be left alone to live a good life."

Are you kidding me? Listen, guy, this is not playing doctor. This is being sexual. When a child is sexual or anyone is sexualizing another

child with directed sexual activity, that is not playing doctor. And, this is my point, Mike. If you keep the show on and keep this conversation

going, people like that will be smoked out, and they cannot continue to have opinions.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

CATHERWOOD: Right.

HO: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: I have a feeling, and you know I do not know anybody at TLC or any executives there. But, I have a feeling that this station that

has made its money on shows like Honey Boo Boo --

PINSKY: They canceled it.

CATHERWOOD: I understand that. But my point is that they like to glorify these people who really have no validity to being on television.

They are celebrating --

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: Wait, wait.

CATHERWOOD: They are celebrating --

(CROSSTALKS)

PINSKY: Hey, guys! If you do not like it, let us all not watch it. And, the executives will not put it on.

CATHERWOOD: No. No. That is not my point. My point is, is that now that they are faced with the opportunity to make some really substantial

television.

PINSKY: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: This is when they are going shy away because --

PINSKY: Maybe. Or people will not watch --

SCHACHER: You actually think this family is going to be open and honest? No way. You saw his apology. No way!

PINSKY: Interesting thing. Judy.

(21:15:00) HO: Well, and this is the problem, right, Dr. Drew? Because they have been protecting and sweeping everything under the rug.

So, unless they are actually able and willing to let everything out there this time.

PINSKY: Right.

HO: Nothing is going to change. I mean, this is the father who hired an attorney, so he did not have to present his son for questioning By Child

Protective Services when they first started investigating.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: Wow. And, this may be out of TLC`s hands anyway because a number of advertisers have been jumping ship on this show. So, we will

see. Let us go to the audience and see if there are any questions. Yes, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Hey! I just wanted, Dr. Drew, to address something you said at the top of the previous segment. I think it

is really unfair for us to be calling Josh Duggar a pedophile when the only actions we know about happened when he was also a child, which I know by

law we have I think is 16.

PINSKY: But child on child sexual abuse is one of the most common forms of sexual abuse these days. And, it is just as problematic as -- not

quite as much, but it is very problematic as much as adult on child sexual abuse.

HO: That is right. And, actually, just to follow up on that, when we see somebody who is a teenager molesting younger teenagers or even younger

children, which this was part of the case --

PINSKY: Happens a lot.

HO: Happens a lot. There are indicators that, actually, it is a pedophilia that is operating underneath. And, as adults, they will

continue to perpetrate the same behavior. And, this is my fear, he has young children in his house. Are they safe?

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: But to be fair, these are allegations.

HO: Right.

PINSKY: And, we are not, you know, putting out any labels on him. We do not know the extent --

SCHACHER: And, as far as the allegations go, this is not a one-time incident.

HO: No.

SCHACHER: This went on for quite some time with multiple victims. And, the victims said that it happened while they were sleeping. They

would wake up, having their privates touched.

PINSKY: That is not a part-time hobby.

HO: How dare they liken to it the game of operation. It is nothing like it.

PINSKY: Oh my God.

HO: Right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Definitely not something to condone at all. I do think one of the main problems with the whole discussion now too

is we are re-victimizing these girls. Because they have sent out many -- many statements that this is in the past. We have forgiven our brother.

We have moved on. But the fact that this trial by public opinion, not an actual trial, we are reopening that wound.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: No we are not. We are not re-victimizing them. I am sorry. We are not, because we are hopefully -- there is a lot of people

out there that are hoping to give them justice. And, by not talking about it is not the right answer.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: And, the other problem is, and you and I deal with this all the time is that people who have been trauma tides, literally their brain

develops in such a way that they are walled off from that trauma. The trauma -- literally, the brain kind of disconnects from the trauma quite

literally wiring wise.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: And, so people do not like to think about it so to speak. But they need to think about it in a therapeutic setting. They do not need

to be traumatized.

HO: That is right.

PINSKY: But they have to learn to connect in a different way.

HO: That is right. And, again, with a lot of these victims, a lot of the information that is coming from the Duggar family. They are saying we

have talked to the victims and they have forgotten us. We have not heard from the victims because of the reason that you said.

PINSKY: Yes.

HO: And, my concern is --

PINSKY: And, we do not know who they are even.

HO: Yes. We do not even know who they are. And, their whole development of how they view social relationships is completely askew now.

PINSKY: That is what happens from sexual abuse.

SCHACHER: They need justice.

PINSKY: Yes sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Do you think the media is responsible the way it promotes, you know, women is like sexual objects that it can kind of

encourage this behavior maybe?

PINSKY: Well -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Maybe?

PINSKY: -- This kind of thing has been going on throughout history before there was a mass media. And, you know, oftentimes kids that are

sexually abused, there is a certain percentage of those that become perpetrators and then there is people that are actually pedophilia, which

is kind of a mixed bad, which is a sexual orientation.

HO: That is right.

PINSKY: Sam, you have a pole results. Yes?

SCHACHER: Yes. We asked our viewers, "Should TLC cancel `19 Kids and Counting." And 65 percent of our viewers said yes. 35 percent said no.

We also got a thousand comments on our Facebook page after posting this poll.

HO: Wow.

PINSKY: Do you have any samples?

SCHACHER: Yes. I have a couple examples. Kate Lindholm (ph), she wrote in, "Yes and it is sick that he now has kids of his own. I would be

scared he would do it to them," as Judy just stated.

Nancy Madroe Ammon (ph) said, "No, he was a teenager and how old were they? Kids experiment if they are kept in the dark about feelings going on

in their bodies. Get the while story first."

PINSKY: OK. Stop it, stop it. I cannot stand it. I cannot stand it. Listen. I got to get out. But let me just say, started doing radio

30 years ago -- 35 years ago. Started doing it primarily because there was this epidemic that is called -- We called it grids at the time. We now to

call it AIDS. A

And, as I was doing more and more radio. This issue of childhood sexual abuse became something I was dealing with constantly. Mike, we deal

with it every other call, every third call.

CATHERWOOD: Every other call.

PINSKY: It is so common today. Do not kid yourself. When it is directed sexual activity, it has a -- whether it is a child on child or

adult on child, it has a profound effect on the brain development of those children. How they conduct themselves in relationships, how they are able

to regulate their emotions.

I call it a gift that keeps giving, not because it is gift but these single episodes can have lifetime effects. This must be taken seriously.

There is an opportunity to keep this conversation going. That is my reason for thinking TLC might want to keep some piece of this alive. But, I

certainly understand people saying should it be canceled.

Next up, B.B. King murdered, or was someone just helping him die with dignity? I have an opinion than. And, we will be right back.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(21:20:00) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Blues legend, B.B. King was old and sick when he died in hospice two weeks ago at age 89. He was bed ridden

and had dementia. But, the cause of his death is now being disputed by two of his 11 children.

Two daughters have accused his business manager and personal assistant of poisoning him. The coroner says as of now, no foul play is involved.

But toxicology results are not in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: The dispute over B.B. King`s death is at the "Top of our Feed." Back with Mike, Sam, Judy. Did members of B.B. King`s inner circle

hasten his demise by some sort of poisoning? He has two daughters that are on the record saying, absolutely. I say that is nonsense. Sam, give us

the latest in this investigation.

SCHACHER: OK. So, the women are saying that he was given medication to --

PINSKY: What? What medication?

SCHACHER: OK. So, some sort of medication that would induce a diabetic shock and death. And, we also heard that the coroner said that

there was no indication, right, that there was foul play.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: However, we still do not know this toxicology report. That will take six to eight weeks to come back. And, police say that they will

not investigate unless the coroner says that he found something.

PINSKY: So, they have done an autopsy.

SCHACHER: Yes.

(21:24:56) PINSKY: And, by the way, Mike, if there was evidence of him having suffocated or aspirated, that kind of thing because of

medication, that would have been inferential information that they would then start looking for high doses of medicine. He should have high doses

of medicine in his system. The man was dying.

CATHERWOOD: He is in hospice.

PINSKY: He is in hospice. They are trying to keep him comfortable. Hospice means he is imminent demise. The only focus of care is comfort and

dignity --

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: Not treating the underlying conditions. Judy?

HO: Yes. They are focusing on palliative care. They are trying to make him as comfortable as possible. And, so, for them to actually rile

all this up in the wake of --

PINSKY: Money. It is money.

HO: Yes. Thank you.

PINSKY: It is money. They are going in the record. Lisa bloom?

BLOOM: No.

PINSKY: Oh come on, Lisa!

SCHACHER: Yes!

HO: Yes!

SCHACHER: I am with you.

BLOOM: I love you, but no. This is about the rights of elderly and disabled people.

PINSKY: What?

BLOOM: If he had one more day to live, they had no right to poison him. If he had seven more days to live, they had no right to poison him

just because he is old and because he is sick.

PINSKY: Wait. OK. He had advanced dementia and what is called a multi-infarct dementia --

BLOOM: He still has the right to live.

PINSKY: I understand. So, all the brain was gone. It was all clipped off by vascular insufficiency. The blood vessels were clipped off

and he started losing brain tissue. He was 90 years old or 89. He was in hospice. So, death was imminent. The care he was getting was just to keep

him comfort.

BLOOM: They alleged that he was poisoned. All they are asking for is an investigation into that.

PINSKY: Right.

BLOOM: Let us find out.

SCHACHER: Yes. Would not you want your kids, Dr. Drew, to investigate if somebody had poisoned you? We do not know. And, there is a

history here. There is a history -- hold on. There is a history of these 11 surviving children who have had some beef with his manager who have not

allowed them to come to the house, who have not allowed friends to come to the house, where money has been missing from the bank accounts, allegedly.

So, perhaps they do have distrust. Perhaps, there are suspicions. I think they do deserve an investigation.

CATHERWOOD: OK. Let us just say in a vacuum that there is going to be this investigation, and they are going to investigate things, and it

turns out there is no nefarious play here. Ms. Bloom, do then the manager and the assistant in B.B. King`s -- in his inner circle, do they have the

right to sue the pants off these daughters for claiming that they murdered a man when they clearly did not?

PINSKY: No, because when they settle --

BLOOM: Yes --

PINSKY: What is going to happen when that case closes and is found unsubstantiated? They are going to require them to sign a non -- you know,

a none -- whatever you guys call it.

BLOOM: Nondisclosure settlement agreement, confidentiality --

PINSKY: No. A settlement agreement where you agree you will not counter sue. You guys always do that. So, you ruin everyone`s life --

BLOOM: And you guys always sign it because people want to get the money and they want to get the justice and they do not want to fight for

five years.

PINSKY: Judy, the attorney on the other side, King`s business manager calls the whole thing ridiculous. He said it is about control over the

estate, money, again. So, I think there is quite a bit more. But, let -- this reminded me of another story, though.

And, I want to sort of show you this one. It is a little more poignant story, but it brings up some of the same issues. A 46-year-old

single mom. She was an LAPD officer. She was an attorney. She has stage IV lung cancer now. It is a catastrophe. I spoken -- Mike you have talked

to her. We talked to her together --

CATHERWOOD: Right.

PINSKY: -- on our KABC radio program. She is a very lovely, strong, thoughtful person. She would like to die with dignity, when she chooses

she is going to die and die soon from her lung cancer. No one can do anything about this. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE O`DONNELL,46-YEAR-OLD SINGLE MOM DIAGNOSED WITH STAGE 4 LUNG CANCER LAST YEAR: I cannot take any more pain. I do not want to suffer

anymore. And, we do not want to see our loved ones watching us suffer anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And, she does not have the right to do that in our state. Lisa, are you against the right to die?

BLOOM: No. Listen, if you are terminally ill and you are of sound mind and you want to make decisions about the end of your life, you should

be able to make those decisions.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: I agree. We have ten years of experience in Oregon with these laws. And, again, I am giving you grief about attorneys tonight, but

there is no slippery slope here, Lisa. Doctors are now putting pillowing over young kids` heads because they think they have the right to die.

BLOOM: And, you know what? It happens all the time. That people do take their own lives when they are old and ill. The only question is, are

we going to prosecute somebody who helps her, you know? Or be like Oregon, which does give people the right to die, but she should not have to go to

Oregon.

PINSKY: And, by the way, again, in the B.B. King case, I assure you he was probably on high doses of morphine. He probably was not getting his

insulin. And, because they were not treating him, they were just keeping him comfortable.

And that is the priority of care that he signed up for. And, they could give him a little too much medicine. If he stops breathing, that is

a side effect of the treatment. It is not that they were trying to kill him.

HO: Right. And as he is getting older -- as he is getting older and his medical conditions are advancing too, he responds to the medication

differently as well. So, they may be intending to give him the dose that would keep him comfortable. But, you know, sometimes it has different

effect, right?

PINSKY: Yes. Absolutely.

HO: As his condition advances.

PINSKY: All right. Coming up, we have a desperate anorectic woman who uses social media to beg for help. We will have that story after this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(21:29:54) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: She wants the right to pull the plug on her own life. Christine O`Donnell is a 46-year-old single mom diagnosed

with stage 4 lung cancer last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The most likely way that I am going to die with the lung cancer is that my left lung will fill with fluid. I will start drowning in

my own fluid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: For nine months she has endured chemotherapy as the cancer spread to her brain, spine, ribs, and liver.

With less than six months to live, Christine is now suing for the right to take medicine that will help her die painlessly and peacefully.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: I am not afraid to die, but not being afraid to die is not the same as wanting to die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Mike, Sam, and Judy. And, the whole idea of assisted suicide as a misnomer. It is really a right to die with dignity

on your own terms. She is right. Listen, I deal with death and dying all the time. It is gruesome.

CATHERWOOD: Not enough people do. That is the problem.

PINSKY: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: Did you see how destructive it can become.

PINSKY: It is a horrible thing.

CATHERWOOD: It is dignified as it is.

(21:35:00)

PINSKY: It is a harsh reality. If you have seen it. No one gets to see it and so it is easy to become philosophical. But lot of people have

strong feelings about this. So, we are going to go right out to the audience. Yes, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: My question, actually, is more, I guess, bringing attention to people that want to do hospice, or they want to pass

away peacefully.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: But the same sense that are they are abused by intimate family members, like a wife. Like for instance, my dear

friend Kerry Kasem, whose father, Casey Kasem just passed away.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Her wife just got off the boat, saying that we are not going to press charges for her ripping her husband out of

the hospice.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: So, I wanted to bring attention to people that are actually planning and wanting their love ones to pass away.

PINSKY: I think your point is a good one, which is that the individual, all each of us needs to make our wishes. Now, we had that one

case where the husband got accused of raping his wife because --

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: It was crazy. This is a delightful man. He is a farmer. He did not even have sex with his wife.

CATHERWOOD: He wanted to cuddle.

PINSKY: He wanted to cuddle. We talked to the guy. Because she did not put her wishes down about what kind of contact she would like to have

once she was in a nursing home, he nearly got put in prison, Lisa.

BLOOM: Yes. So, everyone should have an advanced directives.

PINSKY: Yes.

BLOOM: Essentially while you are of sound mind, before these things happen, just download them off the internet. There are lots of sites --

PINSKY: And all of those --

BLOOM: Just say what you want to happen, clearly.

PINSKY: Yes. No, it is really important. We are -- I am sorry. We are going to have to get another audience member because a lot of people

are interested in coming through here. We are biological. We all die. It is just the way it goes. We need to prepare for death and illness. It is

going happen. Yes, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Hi. I believe that euthanization should be legalized globally. What are your thoughts? We are talking here

today and everyone`s above age. What about children? What if it is a 10- year-old? What do you think about that?

PINSKY: Oh.

SCHACHER: Wow.

PINSKY: That is gruesome.

SCHACHER: I cannot even imagine.

PINSKY: I cannot either.

SCHACHER: Are they capable to make that decision? Here they are in pain.

PINSKY: No. No. but then does that --

SCHACHER: It has to be an adult.

PINSKY: But does that right then transfer to parent? I could never take that.

BLOOM: Yes. It would, legally. The parents will decide. Maybe you have to have a couple of backup levels of review to make it sure.

PINSKY: Yes, several, several reviews.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: That is wildness. Yes, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Hi. I rescue animals and I have euthanized so many dogs and cats.

PINSKY: Yes. And you would not let your animals go through what we do to people routinely.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Right.

PINSKY: You would not allow that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: Now, is that because -- is that because you had the experience with the animals, or is it because we are so wild about the

sanctity of human life that we cannot imagine taking it into our own hands? What do you think it is?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I would not let any of my animals suffer one second.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: And of course I cry. And everybody around me say, "Yoko, you did the right thing." How come this cannot be

happen for humans?

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: Well, Dr. Drew --

CATHERWOOD: If you did not break up the Beatles, I would really forgive you a lot more.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: So --

SCHACHER: I do not even know how to follow that. OK. So, this woman, though, is being shamed, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: She says, "I am Christian. I am proud to be Christian. But there is some people within her community that are saying that she is

trying to play God." And, I think that is where a lot of people --

CATHERWOOD: Well, how is it not playing God because you choose that someone should stay alive a little bit longer so, that you can experience

when they are being open about the fact that they hate being on earth in this amount of pain, living this kind of undignified life. But you want

them around because you want to impose your views on them. That is the most Selfish BS to play God.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: And, why is not the playing God when I prolonged suffering or when I get in the way of the inevitability of dying. Why is not that

playing? These are tough issues.

CATHERWOOD: How is it playing, not playing God giving the guy a robotic leg when he comes back from Afghanistan.

PINSKY: Exactly.

CATHERWOOD: Stop it.

SCHACHER: And, the family members. The poor family members have to watch them suffer.

PINSKY: Well, that is a different issue too. We want to make sure we are doing things on behalf of the patient and not the family. But, the

fact is I am very sympathetic to the sanctity of life. I am very sympathetic to that.

I understand that argument, and it makes it a particularly tough argument, because there are people who would gladly fight for every minute

of life. And, then there are somebody who is saying, "No, I am going to give some up." That is tough give and take, but we -- I think we have to

resolve this and we have to be very realistic about it.

Now, next up, would you get therapy if you could text Judy or any other therapist out there. Would that be adequate? I have got strong

feelings about that and more after this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(21:39:18) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(21:43:28) PINSKY: All right. Time now for our "Click Fix," where our panel tells us what is trending on their Facebook, Twitter and

Instagram feeds. I am back with Mike, Sam, Judy. Mike, you are up first.

CATHERWOOD: Yes. I --

PINSKY: Do not disappoint me.

(LAUGHING)

CATHERWOOD: I will not, actually. Actually, this is a very serious issue. This is a YouTube video. 2.5 million views. A little over,

actually. It is a plea from a 37-year-old woman suffering from extreme anorexia. Check this out.

HO: Oh, wow.

PINSKY: Uh-oh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL: Hi, my name is Rachel. I need your help. I am suffering from an eating disorder. I am 5`7", 40-some pounds and no hospitals will

even take me at this point. There is one hospital across the country that can. I am not one to ever ask for help. I need your help. We need your

help. Otherwise, I do not have a shot. And, I am ready to get better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That is just heartbreaking.

CATHERWOOD: Yes.

PINSKY: God.

CATHERWOOD: That video was recorded a little over a month ago. We have actually talked about this before, Dr. Drew, because a lot of doctors

here in Southern California, which is where she is from, they say she is untreatable. They just do not know how to deal with that.

PINSKY: They may not have the medical facilities to treat both the medical issue and the eating disorder, or she may have burned her bridges.

She may have failed in multiple places. It is like treating addicts, eventually become part of the problem.

HO: Did she get help?

CATHERWOOD: She posted yesterday saying that through public donations she was actually allowed to be sent to a specialist in Colorado who has

assembled a team to specifically to deal with her.

SCHACHER: Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

(21:45:00) (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

CATHERWOOD: I know you. You just have really --

SCHACHER: So sad.

PINSKY: Yes. And, I am hoping that she will put up a follow on, so we can report it.

CATHERWOOD: If she survives. Her recovery will take at least three to five years. She is in it for the long haul.

PINSKY: Yes. Sam, what do you got?

SCHACHER: OK. So, we are going to switch gears a little bit, because this is a bit of a lighter story. Now, I have a photo from a funeral that

has gone viral.

PINSKY: A funeral?

SCHACHER: A funeral. A wake actually. A 73-year-old taxi driver from Puerto Rico recently died of cancer. Sad. But his final wish was to

be propped up "Weekend At Bernie`s" style behind the wheel --

PINSKY: That is him?

SCHACHER: Yes. Behind the wheel of his Toyota Corolla cab one last time. His dear daughter granted this wish. And, get this, a lot of

mourners actually lined up to ride in the cab with him. And, this was not the first time that we talked about these bizarre funeral trends --

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: -- which I know creep you out.

PINSKY: But this is the best one I have seen.

SCHACHER: Yes. We had another one where there was a woman, remember, that really loved to party. And, so she same thing, got propped up --

PINSKY: There she is.

CATHERWOOD: Yeah!

SCHACHER: -- with a cocktail.

PINSKY: That one freaked me out a little bit.

SCHACHER: Keg. I mean, I could totally see myself propped up at the Bacara Resort with a glass of chardonnay and some sunglasses.

(LAUGHING)

CATHEWOOD: Saying it now, guys. Prop me up with my iPad mini, a little bit of lube.

PINSKY: Get out, get out!

SCHACHER: Do we have a dunce cap for him?

PINSKY: It would not hold. Judy, what do you got?

(LAUGHING)

HO: OK. Well, Dr. Drew, there is a lot of hype now about teletherapy that includes online therapy. Now, therapy by text, which is actually not

new. It has been around for 15 years. We do not have a lot of good research on it, however.

PINSKY: Wait, wait, by not a lot of good, you mean none?

HO: Basically, none.

PINSKY: Yes.

HO: We have about a hundred subjects on this particular text messaging type of forum. But here is the problem. OK? So, this is

actually -- I am very passionate about this. This is my area of research. I have been doing this research for 13 years, which is on how to engage

people in therapy when they need it because we cannot get them to therapy because of stigma. We cannot get them their because of financial issues

and we cannot get them there because of access. Sometimes, there is just not a good clinic nearby.

PINSKY: Now, wait a minute. So, you are going to advocate on behalf of this?

HO: I am not going the advocate on behalf of this.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: OK, good.

SCHACHER: So, I cannot text you? I cannot text you?

HO: Well, you can text me any time you want.

PINSKY: I mean you can text people reminders.

HO: Exactly.

PINSKY: And maybe some cognitive behavioral mechanisms that they have already --

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: But, this is really important for people to hear this. No matter what the technique of therapy that a people use, the one thing that

research has shown over and over again, is that it is the therapist and the relationship that the determines the success of the treatment.

HO: That is right.

PINSKY: And, there is no relationship through text.

HO: There is no relationship. And, think about what your therapist might be doing when they are texting you. They could be, in the shower.

Just hanging out, having sex.

PINSKY: Yes.

HO: Did you know that 30 percent of people talk on the phone while they are having sex?

SCHACHER: Mike knows that.

(LAUGHING)

HO: This might be your therapist texting you. All right? So, I do not trust this system. As you said, Dr. Drew, that human relationship is

so important. You miss it even in like a Skype session.

PINSKY: Yes. It is bodies in proximity and building closeness is what at the core of therapy. All the technical stuff is just sort of so

much, what, epilogue? You know, it is just things you add on to help the efficiency for what you are doing.

HO: Exactly. And, there is one more thing about --

CATHERWOOD: But to play devil is advocate, what if people seek therapy that way if they would not? And, under any other circumstances it

would not.

PINSKY: Yes, maybe engage. I would not call it therapy. I will call it something else, enrollment or something.

SCHACHER: What about face engagement? Like a Facetime or something.

PINSKY: Enrollment. Enrollment.

HO: But, it is the same thing. They are still not there with you in person. It is really different. And, so I think the engagement is getting

them to like have a resource. Here is the reminder for your appointment. Checking in, did you do your homework assignment for cognitive behavioral

therapy?

PINSKY: But it worries me -- I agree with all that but it worries me just the way people think by reading a self-help book they are going to get

a lot better. No.

HO: No. It is worse than a self-help book. Who are these people? Who are these clinicians? We have no idea what their credentials.

PINSKY: All right. We are going to take a quick break. I am going get in front of you all in here and answer any questions you might have

whether it is through Facebook or Twitter. They are excited to have at me here right here in the studio. I have no idea what they are going to ask.

You can ask me anything, after this.

(21:48:53) (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(21:53:10) PINSKY: Time now for what we call "Dr. Drew`s Qs." It is a chance for you to ask me questions on any topic. You can tweet me your

questions @drdrewhln and use the #DrDrewsQs.

I am going to start out with Jennifer on Twitter. She says, "I suffer with chronic pain. I heard you say, the opioids are not appropriate for

treatment. What is?"

And, what I said was is that, finally, pain management specialist, and I have been saying this for years and I have seen it played out in

countless number of cases. Pain medication, opiates in somebody with chronic ongoing pain -- it makes things worse, worse, not better.

If they make things better, I would advocate for using them. They cause something call hyperalgesia where pain is intensified. A part of the

brain called the insular cortex. Should I get my pain -- the misery component of pain is intensified. Withdrawal causes back pain. So,

everybody on opiates has chronic back pain that never goes away until they get off the opiates.

I am not saying never use them, I am saying they are not a good treatment for chronic pain. And, finally people are catching up to that.

The problem is oftentimes people are then addicted also, which is another problem. And, that sometimes needs specialized treatment. Question from

the audience. Yes, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Hey there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I have a question about sexual abuse. After being sexually abused as an adolescent, how do you go about obtaining

and maintaining a healthy, normal relationship with trust and honesty?

PINSKY: It is really hard. Right. Trust is the big thing if you have been abused.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: That is the first thing. So, closeness becomes kind of a problem, does not it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: And, in closeness, you start maneuvering and have all kinds of feelings and then you end up getting traumatic reenactments, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: And pushing people away.

PINSKY: You either go for the unavailable or you go for the traumatizing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: Or you sabotage real good relationships because all those usual patterns.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: So, that is where treatment comes in. Have you had treatment?

(21:55:00) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I am kind of in treatment now.

PINSKY: Good. And, the way -- that is good. But, two things I would say. Two things. You seem great. You feel like you are good. You are

emotionally present and stuff, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: It is getting better.

PINSKY: You are putting on a good front for us tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Thank you.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: But there is two things I would say. You need to learn how to regulate emotions, right? And, that happens in an interpersonal

context.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Right.

PINSKY: That is being with another person. And you to learn to tolerate closeness and sort of rewire your maps of tolerating closeness.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: OK.

PINSKY: And, then once you form that closeness with a therapist, then you can go do that out in the world with a romantic partner. But you do

not have to relive your trauma so much. If somebody is making you go through things over and over again, that is not necessarily good treatment.

I mean some people -- you know the EMDR, have you ever heard of that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No.

PINSKY: Ask your therapist about that too. It is another way of sort of rewiring some of this stuff. OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: OK. Thank you.

PINSKY: Thank you. Good question. Twitter. Ramon asks, "What are your thoughts on dabbing, which is -- I have never heard of this --

concentrated marijuana oil instead of regular marijuana." Anybody know about dabbing? You know about dabbing? What is dabbing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Well, actually, dabbing now, it is much more concentrated --

PINSKY: Than what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Than marijuana.

PINSKY: But hang on. People can get the wax now and all kinds of concentrated. The edible. You can get all kinds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Absolutely.

PINSKY: So, why is this different? I do not get it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Well, it is just much more stronger. You are getting nothing but pure THC.

PINSKY: You seem very excited about it. You are really into it. That is good. That is good. I hear you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I am actually originally from Rhode Island. So, all we had was just marijuana flowers, which was --

PINSKY: Old-fashioned. Old school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Old-fashioned type of marijuana smoker, right. So coming here from California, getting the dabbing, it is just so

much stronger. It is actually a felony now. You can get dabs at a dispensary. Then if you even with your marijuana Rec card, if a cop pulls

you over, you can actually get arrested. That is a felony now.

PINSKY: OK. Good. I think I -- I think we learned everything we need to know about dabbing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Absolutely. Thank you very much.

PINSKY: So, it is a felony. It is highly concentrated -- But to me, I think pot is pot, either you get concentrated versions, and you can get

really bad side effects. You can have hallucination. You can have psychotic episodes, bad things can happen. Anyway, you have a question.

You actually did not expect me talking about this. You got up there for something else, but go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I can talk about it with you all day, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: What is your other question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: My real question actually is about --

PINSKY: Where is Nancy? Bring in too

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: It is about methadone treatment program.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Now. The way that was used 20 or 30 years ago, it was more for heroin addicts.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AIUDIENCE: Now we see a lot of soccer moms. And since the rise of Oxycontin, it is Percocet, Vicodins. You see every walk

of life coming in.

PINSKY: You are breaking my heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: But the program still is being used the same. They have to go every day. I have seen people lose jobs over it.

Their life revolves around it.

PINSKY: OK. So, you want to know what I think about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: No, my question is, do you see the methadone program actually getting better?

PINSKY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Do you actually see them making any changes?

PINSKY: Oh, boy. This is very controversial, complicated issue. Savoxone, which is sort of the new method, right? And methadone, it is

called replacement therapies, harm avoidance. There is no doubt that those interventions saves lives. It does. It just simply does. But, it renders

people chronically dependent and chronically ill. You are taking them off one opiate, and putting them on another opiate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Absolutely.

PINSKY: And, I do not do that. If you got an opiate addiction or if I as a doctor have an opiate addiction, it is interesting how the only

viable treatment for physicians is abstinence only treatment. So, why do we only treat ourselves with about abstinence, but our patients will put

them on long-acting opiates and suboxones and things like that.

So, to me -- I only do abstinence base treatment. Harm avoidance. I am glad it is here because it does save lives. I do not do it. It

concerns me greatly. It breaks my heart that people render chronically ill. So -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Right.

PINSKY: OK. Thank you for that. Twitter. Martin asks, "What are one of the main causes for people with overeating issues." I have a minute

left. But, thankfully, I have Judy standing by for this one. It is a huge question. She is asking what is the issue with overeating.

HO: Oh my goodness.

PINSKY: Could you put that question back up again. Make sure we are getting the question. What are the main cause for people with eating

issues?

(LAUGHING)

HO: I know. Where do we start? We have one minute, maybe a little less. But basically --

PINSKY: And go!

HO: Emotional regulation is a huge reason why people overeat. They cannot deal with negative emotions.

PINSKY: Right. So, emotions are too prolonged, too intense and too negative, right?

HO: Right. Too negative.

PINSKY: They are too intense. And, so people are trying regulate their feelings. That is why people cut. That is why people do drugs.

HO: Right.

PINSKY: And, sometimes, not always, but one of the reasons people eat is to regulate emotions.

HO: To self-soothe. But, unfortunately, most of the times people who overeat like that, then they have negative emotions again like the shame

and the guilt and the self-hate. So, the whole cycle starts all over again. Yeah.

PINSKY: So, people should be in treatment for that.

HO: Absolutely. They need to learn better skills to cope.

PINSKY: Thank you.

HO: OK.

PINSKY: Thank you very much. You know what? 10 -- 5 seconds. What is your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Dr. Drew, I want to find out how to get my groove back, because my sexual drive is to zero now.

PINSKY: There is great replacement therapies out there for women. Particularly think about testosterone replacement. I will talk to you

after the show. DVR us anytime. Watch us. Jack Vale: Offline, next.

(22:08:00) (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

END