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Did U.S. Lose Out on World Cup Over Bribery; ISIS Retaliates as Iraqis Try to Win Back Ramadi; Selfies Sold as Art; "Playboy" Going for Less Skin, More Articles; U.S. Military Accidently Shipped Live Anthrax. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 27, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] DAVID ZIRIN, SPORTS EDITOR, NATION MAGAZINE: Ratings for Major League Soccer compare with Major League Baseball games in many markets. It's the number-one youth sport among children. The ratings for the World Cup in Brazil last year were through the roof. This is someone who's helped facilitate that change in culture. Another thing it opened them up to, though, was access to millions upon millions of dollars from corporations, from brands, from sports marketing executives who are trying to get their brands associated with soccer as it reaches a younger and younger and more diverse market.

(CROSSTALK)

ZIRIN: Oh, sorry.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Sorry, no. But do you think, quickly -- sorry, just final question. Do you think this may potentially blow up at locations where FIFA is holding the World Cup currently?

ZIRIN: Yes, absolutely. Right now FIFA is saying they will not relook at the 2018, 2022 World Cup. They said that today. But no one should believe anything FIFA is saying today. They're, in the words of a friend of mine in Zurich, shell shocked. This story could change minute by minute. The layers of corruption around 2018 and 2022 are so intense and deep, that part of the story is not going anywhere.

BALDWIN: David Zirin, "Nation" magazine sports editor, thank you so much for joining me. That could be huge.

ZIRIN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much.

Coming up next, ISIS. ISIS retaliates as Iraqi security forces move in to retake a key city near Baghdad. The terrorists launching a new wave of attacks. We're all over that.

Also, selfies as art. You have this gallery filled with Instagram photos, some sold for upwards of $100,000. But the people that took the pictures, they didn't get a dime. Is this art? What's this about? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:57] BALDWIN: Just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A fragile and deadly standoff in one of the most dangerous places on earth right now, Ramadi. This is just outside the capital, the city that U.S. soldiers fought and died to liberate during the Iraq War, now overrun by ISIS terrorists. But we're getting word that Iraqi forces are cornering the southern edge of Ramadi. You can see the map. You see the key targets still controlled by ISIS. As of right now, the locations retaken by Iraqi forces, including Anbar University.

But when we widen the map out, battles are still going on across all of Anbar Province. ISIS is still making gains, killing 30 Iraqi soldiers in a suicide bomb attack near the city of Karma (ph).

Joining me now, Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann, U.S. Special Forces and also a Green Beret, and also counter-insurgency adviser at the Concerned Veterans of America.

Colonel, always a pleasure to have you on.

Tap into your expertise. First of all, bigger picture questions. When you look at ISIS, it seems like strategically they're two steps ahead. They have this strategy. How should the Iraqi military stop them, fight back?

LT. COL. SCOTT MANN, COUNTER-INSURGENCY ADVISOR, CONCERNED VETERANS OF AMERICA & FORMER U.S. ARMY SPECIAL FORCES & GREEN BERET: Yeah, I think it's really smart to back out and look at the strategy. I think it's even bigger than Iraqi military. I think our country has to look at their strategy as well and really get a little smarter on the fact that what ISIS is trying to do and what they've done essentially is establish a caliphate. They're using that land mass of Iraq and Syria really to try to usher in a set piece battle between the United States, the crusaders, and themselves. They're orchestrating this and trying to draw us in. So we've got to look, I think, bigger picture at what ISIS --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: How do you mean bigger picture?

MANN: We have to look --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: As far as the U.S. role?

MANN: Yeah, for everybody involved. Because their end game is to utilize this caliphate as a platform to draw us into this larger fight. So they're going to fight open maneuver warfare all over Iraq and hit us here at home to try to draw us in.

As far as Ramadi goes and as far as what they're doing in Iraq right now, one of the things that concerns me is I still think we're really hamstringing our own guys by giving them too many constraints, too many rules of engagement, and really just buttoning up and training on these facilities and not really allowing them to advise the security forces like they need to.

BALDWIN: You're saying the issue is the Iraqi military should be better advised, go outside of the wire to learn how to conduct missions, to think strategically beyond shooting?

MANN: Yeah, absolutely. I think the first thing we've got to recognize is that ISIS is going to come at the Iraqi government with all four feet. They're going to continue to do that.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What they're using, by the way -- sorry to jump in. But I was reading 30 car bombs detonated in the Ramadi center, 10 of them similar to the Oklahoma City truck bomb. They have all of this. ISIS has all of this at their disposal.

MANN: They're well trained. They have good tactics. They fight an asymmetric, kind of nonlinear warfare. They zig and zag. They're very good at what they do. When you look at how we're operating right now, we're pretty much buttoned up on these facilities. You have a fledgling Iraqi security force that's trying to get it done, but frankly there's not enough advising going on with our guys to work with them.

(CROSSTALK)

MANN: Absolutely. And you've got in addition to training these guys and equipping them, we've got to move out with them into these areas and combat advising is tough stuff because you're basically coaching security forces in combat. You're coaching them to step out there and take risks and take chances. It's hard because a lot of these guys have not been tested to the degree that we'd probably like. But that's just the way it goes. We're going to have to spend time with them outside of these compounds, outside of these facilities so that they can disrupt these networks and get after them where they live. If we're just buttoned up on the facilities where they're training, that's not going to get it done.

BALDWIN: How would you lead the charge?

[14:40:00] MANN: One of the things I would look at seriously is we've got to really, I think, take a longer view and a more involved view on how we are building Iraqi capacity. First of all, we're only focusing on the security forces. There are a range of tribes and minority groups in these occupied areas right now that are resisting. We're not working with them really at all. We should be working with them to help stand up from the bottom up. At the same time, we've got to allow our advisers to get out and about with these guys and engage these enemy networks where they are and not keep them restricted. The other thing, I think we have to push Iran out of this. Their role in meddling with this thing, there's no good that's going to come out of that. I think at the diplomacy level and instruments of power level, we have to push them out of this because they're not helpful.

BALDWIN: Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann, U.S. Army Special Forces Green Beret, thank you so much as always. Really appreciate it. MANN: Thank you so much for having me.

BALDWIN: Next, selfies were taken, copied by an artist, sold in a gallery for nearly $100,000. The original owners get nothing. We'll discuss that with an art critic here in New York.

Also ahead, "Playboy" attempts to reinvent itself with -- wait for it -- less nudity. Hear why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:34] BALDWIN: Let's talk Instagram, shall we? The cool digital place where we love to post pictures of ourselves in the banalities of daily lives for anyone to see. What if someone took your Instagram photo and turned it into a portrait, hung it in a gallery, like here in New York, and offered it up for sale for potentially tens of thousands of dollars, maybe not asking you if that's OK? We're talking about artistic license here. We're talking about art. We're talking about Richard Prince and how he's taking that license with this new exhibition. The response is an online anger fest.

Let me talk about it with the art critic here in New York, Jerry Saltz, who wrote about this for vulture.com.

Nice to meet you, sir. Welcome to the show.

JERRY SALTZ, ART CRITIC: Good to see you, too.

BALDWIN: I love how you write -- let me quote you. "Richard Prince's semi-revolutionary drop-dead single, often salacious Instagram paintings. For these works, Prince has been called a dirty old work, creepy, twisted, a pervert, all of which may be true, but true in a great way, if that's possible."

Can you explain the concept for me, first of all?

SALTZ: It's pretty simple. It's as simple as your eye could do it. In fact, we didn't think of it, but we should. He takes public Instagram feeds that are already images in the public domain --

BALDWIN: Trolls for hours and hours, you say.

SALTZ: Sometimes hours. Sometimes just like your Instagram, you get it in a second. He does a screen grab, does a comment, and sends it to an assistant. They print it. It goes to a gallery, and it's gone on exhibit. I happen to think they're kind of great.

BALDWIN: Kind of great?

SALTZ: Yeah.

BALDWIN: It's regular folks, and then of the celebrity ilk as well.

SALTZ: Well, he knows Pam Anderson, for example. One of the first portraits was her. But it could be anybody. You have to keep in mind that while he does sell these for a lot of money, these are digital files in the public domain that people put out there. I'm not talking about the money. The copyright is getting very fuzzy on all this.

BALDWIN: How does that work? Take, for example, and I'm looking at all these images. The woman with the blue hair, didn't that piece go for something like $90,000?

SALTZ: Let's just say they go for 90, 80, 100. The number doesn't matter --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: It does maybe if I'm taking the picture and that's me and I'm saying, hang on a second.

SALTZ: No, I want it too. But Andy Warhol, Jasper Johns, artists for a half a century have taken photos from the public domain and sold it for art. Now that everybody's a photographer, everybody's an artist. Everybody's self-publishing on Instagram or wherever. This is where it's getting fuzzy. But the change is where once upon a time it was the rogue renegade poor artist taking the images from the rich. I think people may be getting upset because you have artists who are now seen as making money, even though only a fraction of them make a dime, but a rich person making money from defenseless people.

BALDWIN: So it's flipping the script sort of in a way.

SALTZ: A little bit. Think of it like drone warfare. Well, drones, where they --

BALDWIN: I'm with you, Jerry Saltz.

Finish this thought.

SALTZ: They go to places that are public and intercede, collecting information. That's what Prince is doing in a sense, acting like a drone. And drone is pretty controversial these days.

BALDWIN: Isn't that art? In a sense.

SALTZ: Yes, I think it's art. And good art.

BALDWIN: OK. Jerry, thank you so much for coming by. Come back, will you?

SALTZ: Thank you. Great to be here.

BALDWIN: Appreciate it.

Next, from you to "Playboy." "Playboy" magazine fighting back against claims it is struggling. In fact, they say the new strategy is less nudity. That's coming up.

Also ahead, devastating new images out of Texas. America's fourth- largest city now facing a new round of storms as people there are walking through what is left of the damage and destruction after all these flash floods. We're in Texas, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:53:57] BALDWIN: "Playboy" is unveiling a brand new online strategy, no full nudity. Yep, you heard me right. Show less skin and more articles.

"CNN Money's" Alison Kosik talked to "Playboy" execs about the rationale behind their decision to use fully clothes models. She joins me to explain.

Why?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and I'm talking about -- those fully clothed models you're talking about are actually online. A lot of magazines are struggling with circulation decline declines. "Playboy" is feeling that as well. So it's turning to a safer work website. You're not going to see as much nudity, or any at all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOSIK (voice-over): Has no patience for its critics.

JIMMY JELLINEK, CHIEF CONTENT OFFICER, PLAYBOY ENTERPRISES: They don't have real day jobs. They're just critics. Can you beat me? They can (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off.

KOSIK: That's "Playboy's" chief content officer, a man charged with revisualizing what some call a dead brand walking.

Nudity was revolutionary when Hugh Hefner launched "Playboy" 62 years ago. Not anymore.

SCOTT FLANDERS, CEO, PLAYBOY ENTERPRISES: When they've seen everything, they're one mouse click away from anything that you can imagine.

[14:55:00] KOSIK: "Playboy's" strategy? Go digital, minus the raunchy stuff. Last year, Playboy.com re-launched as a safe for work site.

Check out this Gamers Next Door video shoot. There's barely any skin. The girls are fully dressed.

FLANDERS: We've more than four times grown our traffic. It's not provocative to see nudity. In fact, it can actually limit our audience.

KOSIK (on camera): So maybe "Playboy" is about the articles then.

FLANDERS: It's always been about the articles.

KOSIK: And the magazine isn't going anywhere, even though it's a money loser. "Playboy" calls it an ambassador for the brand, one that feeds its real cash cow, or should I say cash bunny licensing.

JELLINEK: A pair of socks don't have a DNA until you're able to imbue it with a narrative. That starts with the magazine.

KOSIK: "Playboy" did more than $1 billion in retail sales last year, everything from perfume to clothing. The globally recognizable bow tie bunny powers the brand.

FLANDERS: I would say the rabbit had logos worth a billion dollars.

KOSIK: "Playboy" products are in 180 countries. There are 24 international editions of the magazine. But the very thing that built its business won't be what saves it.

FLANDERS: Full nudity does not need to be the bedrock of this brand. It's much more about lifestyle and entertainment. I say we give aspirin for the headache of people's lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Can't believe he was saying billion-dollar business, that bunny.

KOSIK: Oh, yeah.

BALDWIN: And what about the infamous founder, Hugh Hefner? Is he still running the whole thing?

KOSIK: Well, to do the story, I went ahead and went to the Playboy mansion for the Playmate of the Year luncheon and --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Of course, you did. Of course.

(LAUGHTER)

Was Hef around?

KOSIK: Hef was around, but he didn't make an appearance. I talked to his 23-year-old son, Cooper. Cooper told me he has a bad back. At 89 years old, it's a challenge to get around.

BALDWIN: OK.

KOSIK: As far as the magazine goes, Hef is still considered editor- in-chief for life. Although he's not -- he's not really involved in the day to day of the magazine. Jimmy, the guy who dropped the "F" bomb, he's the day to day, but Hef is the final decision maker on who makes the cover of the magazines. This is actually the May issue. He decides on who makes the covers, who's the center fold, who's the playmate of the year. Hef is the one who makes that final decision.

BALDWIN: Hef is still calling the shots.

KOSIK: He really does. Incase you're wondering, 89 years old, he still runs his own Twitter account. He's worth over $1 billion dollars.

BALDWIN: Editor-in-chief for life. Slap that on your business card.

KOSIK: Yeah.

BALDWIN: Alison Kosik, thank you so much.

Let's turn and talk breaking news. Getting some breaking news. We're learning the U.S. military accidently shipped live anthrax.

To our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, we go.

Accidently shipped live anthrax? Tell me what you know.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Inadvertently perhaps, Brooke. The details are coming out at this hour. The Pentagon expected to issue a full statement in the coming hour.

But what we know is that a Pentagon lab in Utah inadvertently shipped live anthrax to another lab. That lab has not been disclosed yet. That lab reported instead of receiving dead anthrax samples under a research program that it was supposed to get, it actually received live anthrax from the U.S. military lab. Now, all of the labs in this program that have received these anthrax samples are going back to make sure they have essentially dead anthrax, no live agent.

Right now we're told, thankfully, no one is sick. But this has happened before. The CDC's been down this road before, inadvertent shipment of live samples. Now they're going back through everything. They have to figure out how this happened, make sure there's no other live anthrax out there, and make sure nobody is sick. Most importantly, besides no one being sick, how did it happen? How do they keep it from happening again? Live anthrax, not supposed to be shipped as part of this program -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: Barbara Starr, thank you so much.

STARR: Sure.

BALDWIN: Let's move on. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Got to start with Texas. The full scope of the Texas flooding tragedy is really emerging today when you see just the pictures here, as more threats, by the way, of future storms also loom. These are images of the aftermath. They show just exactly how treacherous these flash floods were. You see cars submerged all throughout swaths of Texas. There's still a massive search-and-rescue under way for potential victims or survivors. Authorities are discovering more bodies as the water has begun to recede. The death toll now stands at six. Two people are missing.

We have standing by live CNN's Rosa Flores and Meteorologist Jennifer Gray. I also have Chad Myers here with me to walk through all this as well.

First, Rosa, let's go to you. You're in Houston watching this whole clean-up process. I'm wondering, too, as you're talking to these people, how many people actually have flood insurance.

[15:00:00] ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's tough for folks here, Brooke. There's about 1400 structures in Houston that have been impacted. All those are people, people that are now in their homes with a lot of water damage.