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Dr. Drew
Inside The Duggar Family Scandal; Real Housewives Of Beverly Hills" Kim Richards Reportedly Impaired At Her Daughter`s Wedding Over The Weekend; Anorectic Woman Posts Her Thank You Video For Raising Money for Treatment; Photo Goes Viral ff Overweight Man Cruelly Body Shamed; A Couple Participates in Bondage Lifestyle
Aired May 27, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(21:00:12) DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, inside the Duggar family scandal, is their home schooling program part of some sort of cult?
Are they living one way on T.V. and another in private? And, Kim Richards, was the "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" star drunk at her daughter`s
wedding when she was supposed to be in rehab? Taylor Armstrong is here to comment.
And, it all starts right now with the top of the feed. New details tonight about Josh Duggar, the oldest son on TLC`s "19 Kids and Counting."
He, I think people aware of molesting five little girls when he was 14, and he has never had a professional assessment. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH DUGGAR, STAR OF TLC`S "19 KIDS AND COUNTING" SHOW: My siblings, like all others, you know, we were best friends and we were worst enemies
at times, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Josh Duggar, the charismatic oldest child, is accused of molesting several girls --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Including some of his sisters when he was a teen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK EGUSQUIZA, WEST COAST EDITOR, "IN TOUCH" MAGAZINE: A total of five victims in the ages, you know, if you do the math, the ages range
probably between 5 and 12 years old.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: "In Touch" found that Jim Bob Duggar, Josh`s father, told police he was made aware of it in 2002.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: March 2003 Josh is sent to a Christian treatment program.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Some sort of Cockamamie treatment program.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: July 2003, parents tell a state trooper about the abuse. This state trooper also happens to be a family friend. And, then we find
out "Oh, the trooper is now serving 56 years for child porn offenses."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Do you think the show should be canceled?
SCHACHER: Yes, I think that the show should be canceled, 100 percent.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN TUCKER, CRITIC-AT- LARGE: Let the Duggars come back on for another season and confront what happened in their lives as a result of
this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us Vanessa Barnett from Hiphollywood.com, Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University and Anneelise
Goetz, attorney. The Duggars followed a Christian home schooling program. It was called advanced training institute or ATI.
We have a pamphlet from an ATI seminar obtained from the `90s. It was -- there it is right there. And, it was something called recovering grace,
which was some sort of manual for counseling sexual abuse. And, you are never going to believe what is on this form.
They suggest that the victim be evaluated by asking things like, why did God let this happen? Was it immodest dress? Were they indecently
exposed? Is the victim at fault is what this thing is really saying. And, are we not under the protection of our parents? Are we with evil friends,
Judy? Maybe evil friends who did it. That is why you are the object of the sexual abuse.
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Clearly, this is a work of the devil. It is basically what this pamphlet is saying, right?
PINSKY: But the work here is done.
HO: Yes. That is done.
PINSKY: That is it! We do not do anything else.
HO: Blame it on the devil. Do not worry about any personal accountability. There is no need for an assessment. There is no need for
actual treatment, Dr. Drew. Their four months treatment was hanging out, doing some labor around the house of a family friend. That is the
treatment that they have actually told us about.
PINSKY: And, Vanessa, they figure -- that well, if we just teach him what is right and what is wrong, he is going to understand he has done
something wrong. My God! If it were just that issue. If you could just teach people, right and wrong, what, Vanessa?
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: But, I feel like --
PINSKY: Are you going to take issue with me again?
BARNETT: I am not. I am not, but I feel like in their compound of 20-odd people, they really do believe that they follow the bible, they know
what is right and wrong, they do not want the law interfering in their house, and they do believe that they took the proper steps. I am not
saying it is right, but I think in their minds they think that they helped their child the best way that they could.
HO: What? No. Wait a minute. I am sorry. Wait a minute.
BARNETT: Are you in truly believe that that they think that.
HO: Hold on, Vanessa --
PINSKY: Yes, but --
HO: I am sorry. Go ahead.
PINSKY: No. But I mean a lot of people think lots of things that are horrible ideas, you know what I mean?
BARNETT: No. I am not saying they were in the right, but they went to the authorities, which they thought was right. They went back to the
authorities --
PINSKY: A year later they went to a friend.
BARNETT: They went back to the authorities which, again, they thought was right. They put him in a treatment center, which they believe is
right. They think the Christian law is the top law, there is nothing above what the bible tells them and what God tells them. So, they think they are
better than you all.
HO: Vanessa. No. No. No. Listen to this. Listen to this. When they were under the gun and Child Protective Services tried to investigate,
did you know that the father actually hired an attorney so that his son did not have to go to questioning at all, with Child Protective Services. Is
that following the law of God?
BARNET: They say -- anybody anytime you are in trouble, people tell you to call the attorney --
HO: Child Protective Services, it needs to be investigated. Some of them with their own children, Vanessa.
BARNETT: I get that.
HO: It is his own brothers and sisters.
BARNETT: But just because he called the attorney does not mean he is trying to sweep it under the rug and hope that no one finds out their dirty
little secret.
HO: No, they are the --
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: Hiring an attorney is not necessarily a bad thing.
BARFNETT: OK. Thank you.
HO: But, they called the attorney to deflect questions. Do you understand? Like that was the sole purpose why the attorney was called in,
was to not answer child protective services. So, they did not cooperate when there was an investigation that was about to be opened on this case
when it happened.
BARNETT: By law, that is their right.
PINSKY: Anneelize, can we do something -- could we have done something to help these children? I mean there were kids victimized here,
and a group of parents who thought they were doing the right thing.
(21:05:00) I know they did not think they were doing the wrong thing. I see parents do the wrong thing all the time in the name of doing
something right, but could we have done something to help these kids legally?
GOETZ: I mean -- yes. If the criminal justice system had gotten involved, we would have taken the perpetrator out of that family -- that
huge family unit, and provided protection for those victims.
PINSKY: And maybe treatment for the perpetrator, right?
GOETZ: Treatment for the perpetrator, treatment for the victim --
PINSKY: Or assessment.
GOETZ: -- that is why it is nice to get the system involved. And, the problem -- I think the ultimate problem here is that when the family
reached out, and I do not know if it was a result of that letter -- that the Harpo letter that went out, there were some whistleblowers.
People were trying to step in and infiltrate this family and get the system involved. But, when they went to speak to the police and the police
basically said, "Well, you did what needed to be done, and as parents, you have punished" --
PINSKY: No. It was not the police. It was this one friend. It was a trooper who is now in prison.
GOETZ: The trooper, I am sorry.
PINSKY: But, hold on. On the phone I have Rick. I hope I pronounce your name, Rick. Rick Egusquiza. I get that right?
RICK EGUSQUIZA, WEST COAST EDITOR, "IN TOUCH" MAGAZINE: Perfect! Yes. Thanks, Drew.
PINSKY: Rick is from "In Touch" magazine. And, you broke a story last week, Rick. You have new information on Josh. Tell us about this.
EGUSQUIZA: Well, we sent in a law firm, an independent law firm locally down to the prison to interview Joseph Hutchins and, granted, this
guy is in prison, but he told us some shocking stuff.
PINSKY: Well, hold on, Rick. Rick, Hutchins is the trooper whom the family had reported this to a year after it happened, right?
EGUSQUIZA: Right. To a friend of Jim Bob. So, in 2003, Jim Bob goes to the state trooper. He brings Josh with them. And, a friend from the
church, and he tells him that this happened just one time and he deleted.
Well, he failed to tell him about the five other victims. And, Hutchins is telling us now that if he would have known -- granted the guy
is in prison for doing his stuff -- if he had known at the time he would have definitely reported it.
PINSKY: This whole thing --
GOETZ: And he did know.
PINSKY: He knew one episode. Is not that enough?
BARNETT: How many does he needed to know.?
PINSKY: Yes. But, be that as it may, this guy is obviously suspect. But, rick, this whole thing, I am absolutely furious and creeped out
simultaneously. You know what I mean. Is there something are more you can tell us to help me understand how to get my head around this? I feel there
is this group of kids in this compound. It feels like a cult.
EGUSQUIZA: Well, listen, I am not here to say that there is a cult but obviously there are a bunch of kids, the victims, that have not, as far
as we know, have not had therapy and proper counseling over this. So, five kids, you know, that is a lot of kids.
Anybody else would have been in prison or in, you know, definitely in major counseling or sent away for real. Not just to this little place he
was sent to that Michelle Duggar eventually said. He was sent to a pal is house to do some manual labor.
PINSKY: All right, Rick --
EGUSQUIZA: So, I am still trying to uncover a lot.
EGUSQUIZA: Thank you, rick. I appreciate it. We, of course, HLN cannot independently confirm what is being reported by "In Touch." And,
when I say a cult -- when I use words like cult, it is just how it feels to look at this from the outside based on the information we have. I love
more information. It helps me understand it, the way that I can feel better about it.
But, what is trickling out or what they are allowing to trickle out, has me angry. It has me completely creeped out and very concerned about
these kids. And, frankly, even concerned about the perpetrator. That guy -- I mean you can say what you will, that guy has had no assessment
whatsoever.
Next up, I will answer your questions about this Duggar scandal. We are back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(21:08:30) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(21:12:34) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I think it is really unfair for us to be calling Josh Duggar a pedophile when the only actions we know
about happened when he was also a child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST OF "ANDERSON COOPER 360" SHOW: Josh Duggar has not received, as far as we know, any sort of professional treatment
other than a so-called Christian counseling program.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, then he goes to some sort of cockamamie treatment program. So, he is now 27; 14 years later the guy still has not had an
assessment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, we of course are talking about Josh Duggar, accused of sexually abusing five little girls, perhaps his sisters when he was a
teenager. I am back with Vanessa, Judy, and Anneelise.
And, Judy, one thing that drives me 00 Looking at the audience questions from yesterday drove me insane yesterday. People were literally
saying things like, "Well, they are 14. They are probably playing doctor. Maybe, we are making too much of it." Are you kidding me?
HO: Right.
PINSKY: It just makes me so crazy when people do not understand the difference between kids exploring and kids doing sexually directed
behaviors.
HO: That is right. There is a he very distinct line, Dr. Drew. Playing doctor is not the same thing as actually sexually molesting, not
only overtly when they are awake but covertly when they are asleep, OK? And, some of these children -- I know that another comment where people
said, "Well, they are both under age, so what is the problem?" But, no! --
PINSKY: The child on child sexual abuse is one of the more common manifestations of sexual abuse.
HO: That is right.
PINSKY: And it has a profound effect on the development of this thing, the brain. Things are never the same after that many times. And,
Vanessa, in this guy`s case, his wife knew about this molestation before she married him. She was aware of this. It is kind of weird here.
BARNETT: I understand what you are saying. It is completely bizarre but not in defense of this wife. But I think what she is thinking is that
they gave it to God. This is a very religious family.
You give it to God, you ask for forgiveness and he is the only one that can judge you. And, so, I think she saw a husband that made a grave
mistake a decade ago and she thought, "I will forgive you and I will given my heart to you."
PINSKY: I am all for forgiveness. I am all for forgiveness.
BARNETT: And, that is where she is. Does he never deserve to be happy again? --
PINSKY: I did not say that. He deserves an assessment, which he has never had. But here is the thing that kills me. Because I look at it as a
medical problem, you know, a psychological, psychiatric problem, and it is just like I am not treating any other medical problem.
Eventually, somebody will step in and go, "Hey! Hey! You are not treating this. You are not dealing with it." And, listen, part of people
want to also look at how the Duggars prevented their kids from having any sexual education, understanding about sexuality. They had some crazy rules
about dating. Take a look at this clip from TLC.
(21:15:08) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSA DUGGAR, JOSH DUGGAR`S SISTER: No holding hands, no kissing.
BEN SEEWALD, JESSA DUGGAR`S BOYFRIEND: I always having a chaperone with us at all times.
JESSA DUGGAR: We do side hugs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM BOB DUGGAR, JOSH DUGGAR`S FATHER: A side hug would be when two people wrap their arms around each other and give each other a hug from the
side versus a frontal hug, pushing themselves together on the front.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN SEEWALD: Obviously, we are saving our first kiss for marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is like it is phobic of sexuality in a strange way, is not it? They also have a code way -- Hang on, Vanessa. How dare you. You are
not going to defend this, are you? I mean it is kind of quaint. I wish the --
BARNETT: I think it is the older way of thinking, the more modest way of thinking. There are more chats. And, look, let me be the first to say
--
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: Listen. Hang on. You are the first to say and I got to tell you about this code word they had, it is Nike. They will yell Nike if they
would see a woman that is provocatively dressed. All of you would be a Nike. And, again, the guy --
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: Can we just do it.
PINSKY: No. No. That is weird, is not it? But, do you want to say that again? I am not sure everyone caught that. But, then the boys have
to avert their eyes and girls look down if they say Nike. So, I guess they would have to change the channel and say Nike if you guys showed up on the
screen. But, what do you guys say about that?
BARNETT: It is extreme. It is extreme. We do not understand it. It is not in the context of what we do. But, I think that is the way of
protecting their girls, ironically. I get it.
HO: Wow!
BARNETT: And, let me say, if Josh touched my daughter, he could be dead. Like I am not excusing his behavior, but this family had their set
of rules that for them they feel has worked. They do not have any kids with kids out of wedlock.
PINSKY: Fair enough. Fair enough. But they had incest. I am just saying.
HO: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I kind of agree with Vanessa here. I understand that he needs an assessment. But, I do not understand why we
keep vilifying him. It has been like 14 years. Is there more history of him doing this again?
PINSKY: We do not know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Has he continued to do this?
PINSKY: We do not know.
HO: And, I will tell you why this is a huge problem. He has children of his own and we need to protect those children.
PINSKY: And, we do not know. We do not know.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Exactly. How do we know that he has not reformed? --
GOETZ: He has not had treatment.
PINSKY: He has not had treatment.
UNIDENTIFIED MAE AUDIENCE: You said he had treatment. You just call it cockamamie.
(LAUGHING)
ANNEELISE: Right. Exactly.
HO: I think woodwork around the house treatment because that is what he did for four months --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I mean does anyone who has professional treatment never do this again?
PINSKY: No!
HO: No!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: So, what is different between the treatment he had and the other?
PINSKY: One is an assessment, we can predict when he is likely to do this again, so we can keep him away from environments where he could hurt
other people. And, that is what is missing here rather than pretending it is all done and not happened.
And, you know, the other thing the dad, you were talking about the ongoing issue here, the dad ran for -- Josh`s dad run for senate in 2002.
And I got to read you his response to a question when he was asked about abortion and rape. Quote, here he is, "If a woman is raped, the rapist
should be executed instead of the unborn baby. Rape and incest represent heinous crimes, as such should be treated as capital crimes."
HO: Wow.
PINSKY: So, he is saying that his son should be executed. Anneelise, do you think the legal system would pull up for that?
GOETZ: Well, he is saying that, but obviously it is in a case. Because when he was given the opportunity to actually punish his own child,
he did not do that.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: He did not even report them. He did not take the child out of the situation where he was endangering his other children. What he did was
sent him away for four months and then bring him back into the home. Five children were victims.
PINSKY: Another question. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: It is more like a statement because I am just appalled they have allowed this to fester for all these years
because this is a grown man who obviously has a problem that is not going to go away.
PINSKY: And, it is a good thing to be on T.V. So, the question we have not really addressed is,should TLC pull the show? It is down for so
far. We had one -- If you saw that tape, the one commentator were saying, "No, let us see this play out and keep the conversation going." I actually
think that is a reasonable position.
BARNETT: We agree.
PINSKY: We do, I guess.
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: I am shocked. Yey! I think if we are going to have reality T.V., let us make it real. Like they are not the only family to deal with
something like this.
PINSKY: Yes.
BARNETT: What are the real steps that we can take a decade later?
PINSKY: I agree . I agree. Vanessa says --
BARNETT: We are not going to see that, though.
PINSKY: Well, but if we pull it.
GOETZ: Come on. There is no way. They are going to hide that. Look at how they hide everything in the family. There is no way we are going to
see that.
PINSKY: Do we have time for another question? One more. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: OK. So, I have been watching the show and I started to like them because they come from a big family. I come
from a big family. They have very strong moral --
PINSKY: Yes. The fantasy is wonderful, but the reality is looking a little different.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes, and I strive to have morals but now I feel like, Ahhhh -- Now I feel like they are hypocrites and I feel a
little shell-shocked and like, you know? I do not even know until like I feel conflicted because it is like really liked them and kind of like, you
know, respect them for being so strong-willed in today`s society.
PINSKY: Listen, I would have agreed with you probably had this not all happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Exactly.
PINSKY: On the surface, it looks wonderful, all these kids, these great moral structures, these intense parenting. I have always said though
that when people have more than, I do not know, half a dozen kids, they are not really interested in parenting. They are just interested in having
kids and people around them. I do not see how you can parent like that.
But, far be it for me, I could not do it. That is all I know. The problem here is this kid has a medical problem. His medical problem is
putting other people in danger. And denial and lack of willingness to look at this seriously and realistically has caused him to be able to hurt other
people.
(21:20:00) We do not know how many. And, he deserves an assessment even though you may want to vilify him, the fact is he may have something
that is treatable. There may be -- he at least deserves an assessment. He has had none of that as far as we know. And, for that, I am upset and I am
trying to identify my feelings about this because I feel frustrated.
I think frustrated would be the main feeling I have. This kid needs to be addressed. The kids harmed need to be assessed. Without that and,
yes, although we cannot be sure that the assessments are going to result in necessary positive outcomes, but at least we can care for these children
that have been harmed.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Next up Kim Richards had a serious addiction. We will talk about that after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" Kim Richards was reportedly impaired at her daughter`s wedding over the
weekend. Kim, apparently, got a pass to leave her rehab facility and attend the celebration with a sober coach. By the end of the reception, a
source tells TMZ, Kim was, quote, "A mess and her sober coach left without her."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(21:25:02) PINSKY: We are talking about celebrity behavior. TMZ reporting Kim Richard left on a pass from a chemical dependency program
with a sober coach, as you heard. The outline of what happened to her. She was arrested on April 16th at a Beverly Hills hotel.
A couple days later, she checked herself into treatment in Malibu. A month into treatment, she gets this pass to go attend her daughter`s
wedding in Cabo, San Lucas, not the greatest place for an alcoholic. Back, with Vanessa, Judy, and Anneelise.
All right, Judy, you know, I have been in the position -- you have to get people into treatment any way you can. It makes me wonder if when she
had some sort of crisis and needed treatment, they had to make -- I have been in the situation where deals are made, when people go and by deals, I
mean financial deals.
I mean deals like, "OK, you come into treatment. We will give you a pass. Just to get you into treatment. We will give you a three-day pass.
It is a bad idea but if you insist on doing it, we will take you that pass as long as you come back for treatment." And, it in this case, it was
clearly a bad, bad idea.
HO: That is right. And, I think there is very special circumstances where somebody is ready for a pass even though they have not completed
their treatment. I do not think she is one of those people.
PINSKY: But by the way, it is not three days to Cabo, San Lucas.
BARNETT: No.
HO: Yes.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: To a party. It is not where you go.
HO: And with one sober coach.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: I know the sober coach did a lot of good work. But, it is all for just one person. And, some of them there are some difficulties with
bringing that person in.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: This person is somebody who has had repeated offenses of impulsivity and aggressiveness towards a cop, right?
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: That is one of the other things that she has had a few months ago before she got into it.
PINSKY: And, Judy, I am so glad you brought that up, because I do not know if you can appreciate this unless you dealt with addicts. I will not
treat an alcoholic addict by myself.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: I need a group. You need to have a unified front of people, a show of force. So, when one person is trying to control the behavior of
another, it does not work very well typically unless that person is super motivated to stay sober and you are there to pull them back and reinforce
things.
And, by the way, what happens many times in my experience, Vanessa, is that the sober coach ends up using with the alcoholic. It happens a lot.
And, I think that is probably why the sober coach left. Probably started threatening her sobriety.
BARNETT: Well, I was going to ask, should we hold this counseling center wherever she was accountable that they would cover treatment for so
short of a period of time and then say, "Hey, go to Cabo, San Lucas." Like that is never. I do not believe, how you treaty an addict who is a repeat
offender.
PINSKY: You do not, but sometimes you do anything you can to keep them engaged in treatment. Anneelise?
BARNETT: Give her a shot next?
PINSKY: No. No.
BARNETT: Like, hey, let us drink together just when you say in treatment. Like, where do you draw the line?
PINSKY: You are right. Listen, in a perfect rule you keep her for six months and that is it. But, you cannot keep people against their will.
Anneelise, can you?
GOETZ: You cannot keep people against their will. You have to remember this is a voluntary treatment. She voluntarily went in to it.
Yes, she did it in order to kind of help her hand when she had to go with the prosecutor because she has these charges against her.
But, she voluntarily did it. So, if she wants to leave for three days and go to Cabo, she can check herself back in. And, obviously, this is not
great for her treatment and it is a huge strategic problem for her cases that she has pending.
PINSKY: Oh!
GOETZ: But, you know -
PINSKY: Well, hang on a second. So, you mean, the fact that she has no been seen in the media being wasted --
GOETZ: In the media showing that she --
PINSKY: But she goes back to treatment. You are a clever attorney. She is "So sick, she cannot even leave for a couple of days before
treatment."
(LAUGHING)
GOETZ: It looks like she is not committed.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: That is what it looks like. And, what you are trying to do is show prosecutors, show the judge, "Look, my client is committed to this
treatment. She is not going to be a danger to society. Look at these steps, she is taking on her own to fix it. If you let her out for five
second and she is a hot mess, that is out the window."
PINSKY: All right, well, joining me on Skype, I have Jennifer Gimenez. She is the founder of Soberbook.com. She is a recurring guest on
"Real Housewives." Jennifer, thanks -- thanks for joining us. I appreciate. Help me understand what is going on with poor Kim.
JENNIFER GIMENEZ, SOBER COACH: Hi, Dr. Drew. You know, first and foremost this girl is struggling. And, it is really -- It is such a sad
situation. And, you know, I really believe, being an addict myself and in recovery now, that you have a lot of entitlement issues, you know, when you
first walk into treatment or you are in your early in your sobriety. I am scared for her. I really am.
PINSKY: What do you think? Let me ask this, Jennifer. What about this pass? Do you think that was something negotiated as part of the
condition under which she came into treatment or did she demand it or did she discharge and just went down for this wedding? What happened there, do
you know?
GIMENEZ: I will tell you that I would say that I think that she probably negotiated it. And, if not, she decide d to leave on her own and
they are working around this. You have to be strong with addicts.
PINSKY: No kidding.
GIMENEZ: I have to be really honest, you were my doctor many, many years ago and I wanted a pass and you would not let me. You took all the
passes and all the privileges away. And, you know, a lot of addicts need that, you know?
PINSKY: No. But, sometimes you do not have that ability. You kindly acquiesced and you were motivated but it is just as easy for a patient to
go, "Screw you, I am going to go to my daughter`s wedding. How dare you?" You know, and her brain is not working right and she fits her daughters`
wedding. And, my understanding, Vanessa, there was a lot of meaning to this wedding, too, right?
BARNETT: Well, it was the second wedding actually.
PINSKY: Second ceremony.
BARNETT: The second ceremony. S, Bruce`s daughter. I mean Kim`s daughter, Brooke, is the one who got married. Brooke`s father is Kim`s ex-
husband Monte. Now, he has terminal cancer. And, at the time when she first got engage, he was very ill. They did get him a month to live. And
so, they got married in 2014, small ceremony. Fast forward to now, they do the big ceremony and he is still really ill but now lives with Kim. So,
she has a lot going on. So, she has a lot on her plate.
PINSKY: I want to go back to Jennifer. Jennifer, I am starting -- I do not know Kim. But, I am starting to really worry for her survival. And
I am real got a bad feeling about this. I have a bad feeling about this. She is been struggling a long time and is this part after progression of a
very, very serious, potentially fatal disease we are looking at here?
GIMENEZ: I have never seen her use but I am going to say you have probably got it. She definitely has had a long -- [ inaudible ]
PINSKY: OK. You are breaking up. Your Skype is breaking up. But, I get what you are saying which is my gut about this is appropriate. Listen,
do not disdain her. It is something that we are interested in and trying to understand this, but it is something very, very serious.
Next up I have the former Beverly Hills Housewife, Taylor Armstrong. She will be ring in on this. She will sign off about Kim and her troubles
when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(21:35:34) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: After several weeks in treatment, "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills`" Kim Richards was reportedly
impaired at her daughter`s wedding. Kim was apparently given a pass by her rehab facility to attend the celebration with a sober coach. But a source
tells TMZ Kim appeared to be under the influence during the reception and her sober coach left without her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Vanessa, Judy and Anneelise and joining us on Skype, Taylor Armstrong. She is one of Kim Richards` former cast mates on
"The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills." Taylor, thanks so much for joining us. Now, again, we are trying to understand what is up with poor Kim. I
am getting increasingly scared for her. Was she sober when you were on the show with her?
TAYLOR ARMSTRONG, KIM RICHARD`S CAST MATE ON "THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF BEVERLY HILLS": Kim struggled in season 1 for sure. And, we all went
through so much together, divorces and then Kim going through rehab. But then by season 3, she was doing beautifully and I really had all the faith
in the world that it was going to work for her.
And her support system with Kyle and Kathy and the kids is really unbelievable. And, I just know that she can pull through this. It is
heartbreaking to see that this happened at her daughter`s wedding.
PINSKY: You know what, Taylor? One of my guts -- in addition to being scared for her is that, you know, it is amazing to me how often
addicts get taken down by physicians. They just give them the wrong medication or too much medicine or addictive medications.
I get the real feeling. I am worried that, that is what is going on he here. You may or may not be able to comment, but I am just wondering if
that is why she keeps spilling into trouble.
ARMSTRONG: Well, as everyone knows, being on reality T.V. is pretty anxiety provoking and as with my situation trying to hide something from
the camera while you are filming reality T.V. is even more anxiety provoking. So, I would not be surprised if someone was trying to help her
out with some anxiety medication. I am not aware of that, but I guess we know --
PINSKY: OK. That would be bad. That goes bad. That anxiety medicine means things like Xanax or sleeping medication, that will bring --
that is a relapse. That is a relapse, everybody.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Let us get a question from the audience. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Hi, Dr. Drew. With all due respect, I know you have some experience with reality shows with, you know, in
addiction. So, my question is, do not you think this directly contributes to the stress of being on a reality show?
PINSKY: Well, that is what Taylor is suggesting. But, people are -- Taylor would you agree that she does this with willful intent? I mean it
is not as though she -- I mean if they asked her to get off the show, would she leave the show? You know what I mean? People will not leave these
shows even though they are causing them distress?
ARMSTRONG: You know, I do not know. And, I also know the pressure of Monte being sick has really been weighing on Kim`s heart. And, so she does
have a lot of emotional things going on in her life.
PINSKY: Judy, do you know what I am saying? She is an adult. She has decided to stay on the show. Should she leave? I do not think she
would.
HO: No. I think that there is a lot of motivation for her to stay on the show.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: You are right, there are some problems with that obviously. Can she focus on her treatment and getting better when she knows the cameras
are watching her and she has to present a certain front to the audience.
I think that that can be a conflicting issue, right? And, if she is really in the throes of her addiction and she did not get on the show to
profile her addiction --
PINSKY: Right.
HO: -- there are some real problems.
PINSKY: It has been stressful.
BARNETT: And --
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am?
BARNETT: Oh, I am sorry.
PINSKY: Wait. Vanessa, go ahead.
BARNETT: Is not she a liability for this network? Should not they want to get rid of her?
PINSKY: You would think.
GOETZ: I mean -- Yes, she is but not so much how you are looking at it, not from the view of would someone be able to sue her family something
goes sideways? But, we now have a person on the show we know is aggressive to cops even.
HO: Right.
GOETZ: She is a liability to Bravo if she was to attack a camera person, if she was to attack a producer. You have a duty to provide a safe
working environment for your employees and she is a liability. If I was a Bravo`s counselor, I would tell them to ditch her.
PINSKY: Question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I understand it is super stressful for her and everything. And she did the right thing putting herself in rehab.
PINSKY: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: She was assigned a sober coach.
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: And, how did the sober coach leave and epically fail at their only job?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Well, again, it is much -- first of all the sober coach is not professionals, typically. They are people who are just sober. People
with long-term sobriety. And, if the patient will not comply, the sober coach has to protect themselves. They cannot be expected to stay in there
when somebody is doing something dangerous or their own safety is being compromised.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: They could not bring someone else in?
PINSKY: They could if the patient would allow. Maybe she would not allow it. We do not know. We just do not know what happened there, I have
seen it go bad on many, many times in situations like that.
(21:40:00) BARNETT: What is this coach is real role? Are they following them everywhere? In the bathroom with them? I mean behind a
dark alley --
PINSKY: They can be. Yes, they should be.
HO: That is supposed to be. Yes.
PINSKY: But, you should have --
BARNETT: But, they can -
PINSKY: No -- It is a free world, people are able to do what they want to do. If she says, I do not want you around me anymore, you have to
use whatever techniques you have to convince them otherwise. But, ultimately that patient can run away from you and not a lot you can do
about it.
GOETZ: Do you think it is surprising that she only had one? Because you were just saying, it should be a team approach should she have this
kind of alcoholism.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
GOETZ: Why did she only have one person with her?
PINSKY: Probably terribly expensive. That is typically how it is done.
HO: Yes. They are paid by the hour.
PINSKY: Yes. I mean -- one more question, real quick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Why is it so difficult for people to stay in treatment? I dated someone who was a binge drinker. And, he would
go to AA, but he would then -- you know? But then a few months he was doing it all over again.
PINSKY: There are couple of things. One is stay in treatment. And, treatment is expensive, number one. People do not like to take months out
of their lives particularly when they are on television to make money, doing what they are doing or people want them out of treatment and back at
work.
There are lots of forces pulling them out of treatment. People need six months many times. And, they just will not take the time to get
better. They do not believe they need it. It feels like they are fine. And, they just do not -- they do not have insight. They lose that insight.
The same thing is true of participation of the treatment process. They have to do it every day, just the way a diabetic would take insulin.
You got to do your treatment every day and it is hard. It is hard especially when your brain is motivate d otherwise. You brain says, "Hey,
you are fine, man."
And, that is the sinister quality of addiction. It is always there operating as a motivational system. That is right. You are OK. You are
OK. But, all the brain is doing, the motivational system deep inside the brain here is tricking this part of the brain to believe what it wants it
to believe, which is you are fine so it can get you back to using again.
Next up, an update on an anorectic woman that shocked many of you yesterday. We are after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(21:46:03) PINSKY: Time for our "Click Fix," where the panel tells me what is trending on their Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram feeds. I am
back with Vanessa, Judy, Anneelise. And, before we go to "Click Fix," I got a tweet I have to share with you to finish the Kim Richard`s story.
And, we were talking about the sober coaches and this is Jason Rogers. He says, "It is disgusting to point the finger at Kim Richard`s sober
coach. An addict must learn to hold themselves accountable." This is sort of what we are talking about is the addict, themselves, has got to want to
get better. There is only so much a sober coach can do, but you want them to do everything they can.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: All right, Judy, what do you got for me.
HO: OK. Well, I want to revisit a story that Mike Catherwood actually brought up in yesterday`s show.
PINSKY: No.
HO: But it is a good story.
PINSKY: All right. Good.
HO: You were not disappointed at him yesterday, because it is a story about an anorexic woman who was pleading for people to help her on YouTube.
PINSKY: Yes! Yes.
HO: We had a such a huge response to that. So, we want to share her thank you video, actually. People were actually able to raise $200,000.
BARNETT: Wow!
HO: She is 37 years old and only 40 pounds. So, she is very sick, Dr. Drew. And, the $200,000 enables a team of specialists to treat her at
her bedside in Southern California.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Wow! Do we have her thank you video?
HO: We are going to watch this video right now.
PINSKY: All right, let us watch it. Let us watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL: Hi, everyone, it is me, Rachel. I want to thank you all for everything you are doing for us. It has been so overwhelmingly good in our
lives and I actually have a chance to live. You are the ones who help me recover, and I want you to go on this journey with me. And, I just want
you to know I love you all and thank you for everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is devastating conditions. Our hearts stay with her. And, treatment works, so hopefully they got to her in time. Sometimes -- I
do not want to think about it. Let us just keep our prayers going in the rate direction for her. Anneelise, what do you got?
GOETZ: On a lighter topic, I have a story that I am really excited about. It has been all over Twitter the last couple of days because it
shows the good that can be done with social media.
And, what happened is back in March there was an internet bully posting photos of an overweight man and it was captioned "Spotted. This
specimen trying to dance the other week. He stopped when he saw us laughing," which is horrible, right?
So, the photo goes viral and this unknown man who was so cruelly body shamed wins the hearts of people everywhere. And, then we have a tweet
from Kasandra Rules, who writes anyone who knows this man or who posted this, there is a huge group of ladies in L.A. who would like to do
something special.
And she hash tags, #finddancingman, and circulates it all over Twitter and he responds. His name is Shawn. He is 46. And, he is from Liverpool,
England. And, this weekend he flew to L.A. where a huge dance party was thrown in his honor. And, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Do we have it? Do we have it? Wait, here it is. Here it is.
GOETZ: There he goes. I love this story. Because I think it shows how -- it is adorable. It shoes you can use social media for good. And it
is a small thing in life, right? She had a small Twitter campaign and it took off.
PINSKY: You know what? I am glad you brought that up. Because Twitter has very negative possibilities but things can be used for bad it
can of course be used for good. So, great point. Vanessa, what do you got?
BARNETT: Those stories are so beautiful and I have a beautiful story as well.
PINSKY: I hope so.
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: It is about puppy love. It is puppy love. So, there is a photo on Instagram that went viral. And, it is a 30-year-old man, his 21-
year-old fiancee, and she is on a leash.
PINSKY: What?
BARNETT: It literally puppy love. So, the couple tells "The New York Daily News" that they participate in a bondage and discipline lifestyle
called "Puppy Play." He is the trainer. She is the dog and like the photo was taken and they are at the mall in New York.
(21:50:00) He is walking her on a leash. And, she is like on all fours, drinking from the fountain. They get really into it. They also
tell the "Daily News" that the leash and the collar are symbols of their bond and most couples put a ring on it. He put a leash on it.
PINSKY: Is this her?
BARNETT: Yes. That is her. She is in the fountain.
PINSKY: Oh my God.
BARNETT: She takes it so seriously, and I -- I kind of get it. I kind of get it.
PINSKY: No, I am just taking notes, what I am learning about Vanessa here. People love -- Keep talking, Vanessa.
BARNETT: People love -- especially in L.A., people love their pets. People treat their pets better than their spouses at times.
PINSKY: You are right. You are right.
BARNETT: This woman probably lives the high life that we probably should envy in a way.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I am into -- I like to empower women just myself rather than enslave them. Call mean crazy. Maybe they should trade roles, how about
that?
HO: That is not usually how it works.
PINSKY: I do not know about that. All right. Next up, I will answer your questions about anything, anything, anything. We call it Dr. Drew`s
Qs. And, it is after the break.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(21:55:17) PINSKY: Time for what we call Dr. Drew`s Qs. It is your chance to ask me anything, and I mean anything on any topic and I will do
my damned damnedest to answer the question. You can tweet questions @ DrDrewHLN, use the #DrDrewsQs. And, just like this Twitter question from
Michelle. We will put her on the show.
She says, "You focus so much on addiction, what are your thoughts on helping the children of addicts, the helpless victims." And, boy, this is
a gigantic topic. And, you know, I have dealt with that for many, many years. There are self-help programs. There are 12 -step programs for the
loved ones of addicts.
My patients that are addicts have often said to me, you know, being the addict is not the hard part. When you are an addict, you are doing
your thing and you are not feeling very much, but the family members suffer so much and the children suffer a lot too. There is adult-children
alcoholics. There is al-anon, of course therapy can be very important.
And, remember, the children of alcoholic addicts often carry the genetic potential for the disease. Maybe as much as 60 percent of the
disease is accounted for on the basis of genetics alone. So, they could easily contract the disease and you add the trauma of being an alcoholic
family increases that risks. So, you want to treat that and treat it early. Question from the audience?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: So, I have a cousin. He is about 16 years old. He has trouble retaining information in school.
PINSKY: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: And, he does not really come from a troubled family. He does not get in trouble. He kind of keeps to himself.
But we have often seen him speak to himself for very -- a lot of times.
PINSKY: How old is he? 16?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: He is about 16 years old. And, I have seen it. Other family members have seen it.
PINSKY: OK. So, he needs an assessment, right? We are just looking at symptoms now. We do not know what this is. Is this an evolving, real
serious mental illness or is this something ADHD or is it something just merely behavioral, just some proper intervention or is there a learning
disability here of some type?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Yes. When he was younger, he never used to do that.
PINSKY: Well, but things come on, 18-22 is when mental illness symptoms come on when they manifest some of these illnesses in fact. And,
we do not know what this is. But, again, this is just like the Duggar case, we are talking about.
That child, I will call the 16-year-old a child, needs an assessment. And, the earlier you intervene the better the outcomes many times. Do not
think it is necessarily to be in medication. There are many good behavioral and cognitive interventions these days. But, it may also be
just even a learning issue. And, God knows there is a tremendous interventions for that. So, just get him assessed. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: OK.
PINSKY: Formal intervention. Formal assessment. All right. Twitter from Brent says, do I, meaning me, have any tattoos or piercings? I do
not. Except I had that Prince Albert ring, you know. Except for that -- except for that I have no piercings.
Bert, our producer, do you know what a Prince Albert is? You do know what that is. It is pretty good. OK. Judy knows what it is. No, I have
no piercings. Lisa on Twitter says, "I am 47 years old and cannot stand having sex or anything to do with it. I am happy as a virgin. Again, why
is this happening?"
And, this is an important topic. Almost every night we are dealing with this these days, which is that women as they enter perimenopause and
menopause from shut down in that biology.
And I am telling you there are inventions for that. Testosterone replacement, estrogen replacement can restore this. And, you can regain
that part of yourself and that part of your relationship, which is sometimes so important. Do not ignore this.
Talk to a physician who has experienced treating this. There may be some risk associated with it. But, if you are really losing an important
part of yourself and your relationship is suffering, it may be worth that risk. There are treatments that can be fully restored. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: First of all, the more you know. Hello, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes. Here we go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: So, I have been following your career forever.
PINSKY: My career?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.
PINSKY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: And, I -- You do not strike me as somebody that is very spiritual. So, what are your general, I guess,
beliefs, and how has that affected with your line of work?
PINSKY: I am a scientist and I do try to -- I believe in a spiritual life, that people really need some sort of faith in order to get better
from almost any illness you can name, but I believe that faith and that spirituality is highly personal.
And, I have seen some magical, magical things happen around spirituality. I do not understand it. I do believe there are parts of my
brain that cannot assess lots of things that happen in the universe. So, I am very, very open to things.
But, you are right, I am more of a hard core scientist than a spiritual person. So, that is me. What do you suggest? -- This is Kim on
Twitter. "What do you suggest to people who cannot afford to visit a therapist when they have to pay out of pocket for every visit?" Judy Ho,
good you are here. Quickly, we have 20 seconds.
HO: OK.
PINSKY: Tell them what to do because this is really important.
HO: Very important.
PINSKY: Go to teaching institutes, right?
HO: That is right. Go to universities. Psychology clinics at universities. They are supervised doctoral students who are working with
clinical psychologist who are in good work.
PINSKY: Motivated, intelligent. They are properly supervised and it is often free.
HO: Free to $40.
PINSKY: So, go to universities. The department of psychiatry, department of psychology. And, sometimes they work together.
HO: That is right. OK.
PINSKY: Thank you, Judy. Well done.
HO: You are awesome.
PINSKY: We will try to put our website too, some resources out there. DVR us then you can watch us anytime. Thank you for joining us. Thank you
all for being here. We will see you next time.
(22:08:00) (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
END
