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New Evacuations Underway, Floodwaters Rising; "Apocalyptic" Battle Rages At Huge Oil Refinery; Military Mistakenly Ships Live Anthrax Via FedEx. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 28, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Wolf, thank you so much. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Let's get to it, Texas, we begin with the flood danger there, multiple evacuations under way as I speak. Officials are warning people to get out before it's too late. Get out before this happens.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What happened to this family in Central Texas could happen to many, many more people in the southwest town of Wharton. Wharton is the next in line here in trying to keep thousands of people out of harm's way. That's because the forecast is calling for thunderstorms every day through the weekend.

A lot of homes are already filled with three feet of water. Flood warnings, they are already in effect. Officials say families could be trapped for days if they do not get out before the Colorado River starts to spill over, pictures of the river.

The problem now in the next couple days, North Texas could get 2 inches to 4 inches of rain. May not seem like a big deal. Chad Myers is going to tell me in a second why it is.

The death toll in Texas now stands at 15. Six of those are from the Houston area. In term of missing, there are still nine missing statewide. And a heartfelt thanks today from the Wimberley families whose loved ones are still out there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYE BURKE, SPOKESWOMAN, TEXAS FLOOD VICTIMS: It's impossible to express in words the tremendous loss, pain, and fear we are feeling. Still, we find comfort in our faith and in the support of our family, friends, and community. Over the past few days, we've been absolutely amazed and overwhelmed by the generosity of others, even complete strangers.

At times, when it could be easy to feel cynical about the world around us, this experience has strengthened our faith in God and in humanity. At the same time, we also feel a tremendous sense of responsibility and resolve. This effort is not over.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: I've got Dan Simon. He's live in Houston and meteorologist, Chad Myers, with me. He'll talk about why a couple inches is a really, really big deal over the next couple of day. Dan, first to you, tell me where you are.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Brooke. This is what it looks like on many Houston streets today. You can see this front yard just an absolute mess, this homeowner taking out all the items that were damaged by the flooding. You can see the couches. There are some mattresses in there.

Obviously, all the stuff has to be picked up. If you think it looks bad out here, I want to show you, Brooke, what it looks like inside the house as we walk in. You can see -- quickly see that the house is entirely gutted.

The wooden floors are going to have to be entirely replaced. The water level came up to about 3 feet. They had to peel away the wall. They're going to have to start over. This here is the living room. To the right of me is the kitchen. They just put in a brand new kitchen just last week. It's completely destroyed.

I want to introduce you now to the homeowner, who is back here. This is Steve Vetrano. If you look at his shirt, you can see something here, a symbol for the Red Cross. Steve, tell me what you do for a living.

STEVE VETRANO, RED CROSS REGIONAL CEO: I'm the regional CEO for the Texas gulf coast region for the Red Cross here in Texas.

SIMON: So you run the Red Cross here in Houston, you yourself a flood victim. You told me the hardest thing about going through all of this is that you can't do your job today.

VETRANO: That's correct. It feels very displaced to not be able to be helping to lead the disaster response here in Houston when I know that our community is in need. And I'm here doing my own cleanup here.

SIMON: Tell me how this all unfolded for you and your family. You have three kids, and the water started rushing in.

VETRANO: It was Memorial Day night. About 1:30 in the morning my neighbor called me and said, do you have water yet, it's up to your door. I looked out and certainly it was. So we started trying to get ready for that and put some things up.

Finally when it came up to our calves about 2:00 in the morning, we decided to take the kids and go next door to our neighbors, who has elevated about 6 feet and we joined four other families there with young kids and just kind of watched it unfold.

SIMON: When you came back to your house, you saw three feet of water. What were you thinking?

VETRANO: Where do we start? The cleanup has to begin. Fortunately, being in the disaster business, my wife and I both have a sense of what to do and what to expect. We got started right away making phone calls and getting the restoration company in. We just went to work really.

SIMON: As the leader of the Red Cross, I would imagine your expertise is coming in handy right about now.

VETRANO: I believe it is. I feel like we were prepared as you could be for this type of situation. We knew what to expect. Trying to call on folks to help us out, but yes, we were pretty ready for it. You still are really never ready for the extent of the damage. Three feet of water is a lot.

[14:05:11] SIMON: What's the hardest thing right now for you and your family?

VETRANO: Just trying to make sure the kids are OK, making sure they feel as normal as possible and getting them to school. It's their last week of school. Making sure they -- you know, we need a place to live. We have to find that so we're not moving around a lot. Right now we're just relying on friends.

SIMON: We wish you the best of luck, Steve. Thank you so much for your time. Well, Brooke, that's the story. How ironic is that? Here you have the CEO of the Red Cross in Houston, himself a major flood victim. Now he, like many others on this street and throughout many neighborhoods in Houston, having to deal with this disaster.

BALDWIN: Yes, obviously the flood waters do not discriminate. How unfortunate for him to be so familiar with a disaster and now living through one like so many in Texas. Dan Simon, please thank Steve for us and wish him our very best. Thanks to you as well.

All these stories here, let me share this with you, a lot of people who tried to escape the storms, they couldn't actually evacuate fast enough. This one family, the Perez family, were trapped inside their Wimberley vacation home when the water from the Blanco River came rushing in, and this was caught on tape.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The water rushing in, engulfing the entire first floor here, the family frantically racing upstairs. Thank goodness there was an upstairs. All the while watching the floods create this whirlpool, tables and chairs swirling. The wife told CNN she was so distressed, she didn't even realize she had hit record.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARAH PEREZ, HOME HIT BY FLASH FLOOD (via telephone): We watched the water rush in and the power go off. Then we smelled a fire, the electric was burning. It became very, very real and scary at that moment.

ERNIE PEREZ, HOME HIT BY FLASH FLOOD (via telephone): My wife, my daughter was asleep upstairs. My brother and brother-in-law were both there. Yes, I think we went into survival mode at that point. We just -- you know, the girls were -- my sister-in-law was calling 911.

My brother and I were trying to figure out what our next move was. There was a point where I started tying all the bed sheets together to make some sort of a lifeline in case we needed to, you know, move out the windows and into the trees or something like that.

The water came up to the back porch, and it was coming up very, very quickly. Just within a matter of minutes from floor level to halfway up the door. It was just a matter of minutes.

Once it was at floor level, there was no way that we could have got into a vehicle and risked being in a car and getting up the road in that water. So yes, the cars were already in the water. We knew we needed to stay put and figure out a survival plan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: And this is another case, firefighters to the rescue. Some members of the local fire department happened to be nearby. A family member whistled to get their attention, and they were rescued. The house, by the way, was not washed away.

I have Chad Myers with me. I know we need to talk about the forecast, but just reacting to that, and imagine first of all that you're watching your home engulfed by flood waters like that.

You're seeing your car. You can't get in your car. You're stuck on the second floor of the home with nothing to do but watching it and crossing your fingers.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: And they're lucky the house stayed on its foundation.

BALDWIN: Right.

MYERS: Because so many people's houses did not stay on the foundation. They were gone and they were washed completely down the river and they're lucky to be alive by clinging to trees. The people there as they were climbing up and up, I could only people were climbing through their attic and breaking through the attic and -- this was rushing water. The force of that rushing water is tremendous.

BALDWIN: Looking ahead to the next couple days, when you hear that they could be getting a couple inches of rain, that's still a really, really big deal.

MYERS: It is because the storms that we have now, Brooke, probably won't have a jet stream involved with them, which means they're not going to be moving. They may sit in one spot like Benbrook, Texas, had last night.

We sat hear and watched it on the radar. There were 3-1/2 inches in an hour. Luckily the storm finally moved away. If you get that type of rain over an area that's already flooded, the flash flooding is going to happen like this.

That's why we call it flash flooding. It happened again in Houston two days ago. The ground is saturated. There's no place for that water to soak in, any type of 2 or 3-inch rainfall, even if it's not at your house.

It could be uphill. That's what happened here in Wimberley. The rain was up hill. It didn't rain that much in Wimberley earlier and all of a sudden all that water had to come downhill. It funneled like you were pouring too much milk into a funnel and all that water came out.

BALDWIN: I don't know if this question, but we talked to a couple people who have lived in these areas for decades, right. We were talking about drought a year ago.

[14:10:05] A lot of these people are saying, I have never seen so much water in my entire life. So my question would be, of all the folks in these parts of Texas, would they have insurance?

MYERS: Likely not. A lot of these were vacation homes anyway and cabins and things like. The value really isn't there. Although, that's one of the greatest things you can ever pay money for, the flood insurance. It puts things back together for you.

It never puts your life back together. It just gives you maybe your stuff back together. The insurance that you really need to take out is the way you know how to get out. You can do more for yourself than the government can do for you. Know your escape plan if you have something along the river --

BALDWIN: Yes.

MYERS: -- Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Nebraska, Texas, you can get flooded in the next few days, next few months because the ground is so saturated.

BALDWIN: Chad Myers, thank you so much, such an important story. We're going to have much more from Texas, but let me pivot to this. Here's a word, apocalyptic. This is how one of our CNN correspondents is describing the scenes here, the front lines of this battle between ISIS terrorists and Iraqi Special Forces. We'll take you there.

Plus, anthrax via FedEx, yes, the U.S. military shipping live samples of anthrax around the world, but how and why and who could be at risk?

And stunning video here, we'll play this for you coming up. This woman, eight months pregnant, pinned to the ground by police. You hear her screaming. See what happened moments before and whether the takedown was justified. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:43]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Here's an adjective for you, apocalyptic. That's the word our senior international correspondent uses to describe the front lines of a battle between ISIS terrorists and Iraqi Special Forces.

A lot of the focus, as we've been discussing over the past couple days, has been for the fight for the city of Ramadi, or a tense standoff continues as Iraq tries to choke off supply lines and push ISIS out.

But look at the map. See the yellow area? Farther north in Beiji, this is a much different scene. Part of a huge oil refinery burns, now controlled by ISIS, fears are growing terrorists could scorch and burn the site as they clear out, potentially triggering a catastrophe on a scale not yet seen in this war.

Nick Paton Walsh is the correspondent who I was mentioning moment ago. He was there as Iraqi forces swooped in.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yesterday during a thick sand storm here, they used the cover of it to advance within 20 meters of here. When the sand storm subsided, suddenly a fire fight began.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH (voice-over): We don't know why they start shooting this day, when they may have seen. ISIS are few in number here, they say, but willing to die and have a sniper nearby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now onset, I've got General Anthony Tata, retired U.S. army general. A pleasure and honor to have you on.

Beginning with the fact we know while storming Ramadi, you have ISIS been storming Ramadi, also sent some troops up to Beiji. So you have this distraction, diversionary tactic happening.

So from a battle perspective, do the Iraqi military guys, do they have what it takes to split up like that, or should they just stop, pause, and focus on one city?

BRIGADIER GENERAL ANTHONY TATA, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED): Well, Brooke, it's a timeless tactic to split your forces and make the other opponent, your opponent divert his forces. So you can have a main effort. You can have a supporting effort. The main effort needs to be the most important thing you're doing.

You want all your air power, tanks, infantry, all that combined arms effort on the thing that's most important to you. What ISIS is doing is saying, well, they're going to come after Ramadi now that we've got it.

So they're up in Beiji now trying to split that effort and split that main effort. What the Iraqi Army needs to do is stay true to its main effort, which should be Ramadi.

That's symbolically -- that's the Anbar awakening, the capital of Anbar province, the Sunni awakening. What we don't want to happen is this thing to ossify into a Sunni and Shi'a lines being drawn because you know, you got the Kuds force and Iranian forces coming in there and this is --

BALDWIN: Aren't lines already drawn as it is?

TATA: Well, they're getting there because we're not there in full presence with advisers and the units and communicating to air power. It's a very disjointed fight right now. So we need to get Ramadi back.

From the Sunni perspective, that's where the Sunni awakening, that's where the Sunni tribe said we're with you, America. They were, you know, sort of tepid about it, but they actually fought side by side with us.

Now we're in this puzzle of we've gone Iranian forces, Sunni forces, Iraqi forces, and some American forces advising.

BALDWIN: Eighty miles down the road from Ramadi is Baghdad and so I have talked to so many generals who say, you know what, it's not as vulnerable as people think it is. You know that ISIS would love to fly the black flag above the embassy there. How vulnerable do you think it is, especially when so much effort is placed on maybe not Beiji as much but on Ramadi?

TATA: You know, nobody thought Ramadi was completely vulnerable. It was a little vulnerable because it was out there. It's at that convergence, on the lines of communication of Syria and Jordan.

But Baghdad is vulnerable if ISIS continues to push and they're able to synchronize their combat power better than we're able to help the Iraqi army and coalition partners synchronize our combat powers. It's really a chess match now. The real issue is does ISIS want Baghdad?

[14:20:04] BALDWIN: Why would they not? It's all about establishing a caliphate, right? That's the capital.

TATA: And so I think if the threat comes at Baghdad, then you're going to see the Iranian forces move in. Then we're going to have that war with one trench line drawn right along the green zone. It is apocalyptic.

It is something that could -- we need stability in the Middle East. We need a strategy to get us to stability in the Middle East. This is not good for the world. It's not good for the region. It's certainly not good for our national security.

The average American out there right now, of which I am one, is very concerned about the threat that ISIS poses because the recruiting here in the home state.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. On the home state issue, we know New York Police Department, for example, they've allotted part of their budget to help fight some of these homegrown terrorists, potentially inspired by ISIS. A lot of these departments across the country, they're already strapped budgetarily. Is this something that police here in the states can really handle?

TATA: You know, Brooke, it takes a huge intelligence network to be able to get the cues, pick up on the transmissions and internet chats and the codes that are used to recruit. So I don't know that we've got the training at the state level and at the local level.

We have tremendous law enforcement officers. They do a great job at the state and local level, but it requires training. It requires intelligence laid on top of these apparatus that are out there. And it's hard.

It's hard to figure out, OK, this chat room is recruiting x, y, and z, you know, teenagers to come over and fight the fight or be a lone wolf here in the United States. So budgets are the big thing. States don't have the budgets right now.

BALDWIN: Yes, that's an issue. General Tata, a pleasure, sir. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Coming up, live anthrax samples shipped by the military through FedEx, we're hearing now at least four lab workers are receiving post- exposure treatment. We'll talk with someone who responded to the deadly anthrax attacks in 2001, talk about why this happened, how this happened.

Also, the video that's pretty tough to watch here. This woman, she's eight months pregnant. She's handcuffed, placed down on her stomach there, the reason? We'll discuss that. Was this justified? Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:26:46]

BALDWIN: The U.S. military admitting to a pretty big whoops today, the Pentagon admits shipping anthrax that were supposed to be inactive samples. They were actually live, 22 shipments all across the United States and to a base in South Korea.

Some of the samples were actually sent via FedEx without the rigorous conditions of live agent protocol. Four lab workers here in the United States and as many as 22 people overseas are getting post- exposure or preventive treatment.

The CDC is also investigating. We got Sean Kaufman joining me. He is the director of behavioral based improvement solutions who also trains thousands of workers on ways to reduce risks. So Sean, welcome.

SEAN KAUFMAN, CDC RESPONSE TEAM MEMBER, 2001 ANTHRAX ATTACKS: Thank you, Brooke. BALDWIN: I also should add you're a bio safety expert. You were part of the CDC response team during the 2001 anthrax attacks. You know your anthrax. So given that, I just have to -- let me ask a very obvious, perplexing question. That being, why is DOD shipping any kind of anthrax, period?

KAUFMAN: I think that's a great question and a very good one to start. You know, the military, as well as public health departments here in the United States, have to really take a look at their detection systems because we are really focused.

And what we're worried about primarily with anthrax is a biological attack or some type of -- someone who's a terrorist that might use a biological weapon like anthrax. We have to have a detection system in place to make sure that we know that it is a real biological attack versus a fake one.

We want to make sure that we get those answers as quick as possible. So I think what has happened -- and again, until an investigation comes out, we know more information, I believe what truly is happening is that the military is testing its detection systems to make sure that we have that capability.

BALDWIN: Can you just also remind me quickly as I'm listening to you explain the why, what happens if you're exposed to anthrax? What's the effect to your body?

KAUFMAN: Well, unfortunately, I wish there was a simple answer to that. There are three types of anthrax. There's the cutaneous anthrax that you can get on your skin. Again, not something we typically worry about.

Then there's the gastrointestinal anthrax that you get from eating the actual agent. The one we're most concerned about is what we call the inhalational anthrax, where somebody breathes it and sits in their lungs.

Should they become symptomatic with this illness, it really in essence produces a huge challenge and people begin fighting for their lives.

If we can put people on antibiotics right after they're exposed, typically we mitigate or we cease the risk, meaning the individual usually will take a regiment of antibiotics and live a normal, healthy life with little to no risk.

BALDWIN: So given everything you just told me and the potential dangers, and I understand the why, but still -- and listen, I trust FedEx often, but FedEx to ship anthrax, is that pretty typical?

KAUFMAN: Absolutely not and quite honestly. It's simply unacceptable. I think that again this is another example of an opportunity to promote additional training for our laboratory scientists, an opportunity to give them resources that they need to do this work because the work is extremely important, but they need adequate resources and training. Last but not least, it's a call for leadership. You know,

leadership has -- they must make sure that the work force is not only prepared in doing what it is that they are doing, but they must make sure that the work force does it right.