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Anti-Islam Event; Lasers Pointed at Planes; Baltimore Killings; ISIS in Palmyra. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 29, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:06] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And we're looking ahead now to tonight. People, tonight, come armed, come angry. This is the message from a former Marine who hates Islam and is calling on protesters to gather outside this mosque in Phoenix. This controversial event will really test the fine line between freedom of speech and freedom of religion. We are told it includes a draw Mohammed cartoon contest and it is happening outside the very same Phoenix mosque where two gunmen with ties to ISIS prayed weeks before they ambushed a similar cartoon contest in Texas earlier in the month.

This is the man here. Let me show you a picture. This is a man leading tonight's rally. He is Jon Ritzheimer. Even plans to hand out his signature t-shirts that say, well, why don't you figure that one out by staring at what we've blurred on his t-shirt. He urged supporters on FaceBook to bring guns to tonight's event in case they are attacked. And he talked to Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "AC 360": What are you really trying to achieve?

JON RITZHEIMER, EX-MARINE ORGANIZING RALLY OUTSIDE MOSQUE: Well, I'm really trying to achieve exposing Islam and the truth about what's written in the Koran. You know, people, you know, even Mr. Mudd that's joining us, he's said that he think this is a bad idea, and some would probably argue that, you know, the signers that signed the Declaration of Independence was a bad idea back in their day. And -

COOPER: So you're comparing yourself to the signers of the Declaration of Independence?

RITZHEIMER: Uh, yes. I just - I don't want to live in fear. I shouldn't have to live in fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Muslims in Phoenix are on edge after several mosques received several letters threatening violence. Joining me first here is Phoenix Police spokesperson Sergeant Trent Crump.

Sergeant, thank you so much for hopping on the phone with me. SGT. TRENT CRUMP, SPOKESMAN, PHOENIX POLICE: Sure.

BALDWIN: And let me just begin with, I know, you know, hearing from this organizer, the group, as we heard, you know, urging folks to come armed. Showing cartoons at the rally. Just a reminder to everyone watching, that is considered blasphemous from - with anyone in the Muslim faith. This happened during the prayer service. Tell me how you and other members of law enforcement are preparing to handle this.

CRUMP: Well, the preparation has kind of been long coming. They attempted a rally a couple of weeks ago of a very similar nature that didn't get a lot of exposure, but, obviously, this one has a platform now and so we have different activists that are - that are partaking in this.

But we've been monitoring this for a couple of weeks. We've done a great deal of social media monitoring and been in contact with different representatives and even organizers, which are now many for different causes. And between ourselves and some of our federal partners that we have very good working relationships with here, we think we'll have an appropriate response to tonight's rally.

We - that certainly isn't our message that you're hearing from some of the event organizers. Ours is, is that we want it to be a safe event. We want it to be lawful and peaceful demonstrations and protests. We've had a number of those here in Phoenix and we know how to deal with those. It's just kind of the unknown in this particular case that is most challenging.

BALDWIN: I want to follow up with you in a second just about what you've been monitoring. But first, can you tell me anything more - I mean we just heard from the organizer of the event talking to Anderson last night. But who are these people who are holding this rally, holding this event?

CRUMP: Well, and I'm not going to - I'm not in a position to where I'm going to further them and/or a cause that may be misguided somewhat, but I will tell you that there are different event organizers and different groups have come on. This has become an issue where we have freedom of the right to bear arms, the freedom of religion, a freedom of speech, and so we have a number of groups that have now taken on different causes for this particular rally, which is part of what has caused it to grow in size, or at least in interest. And so, you know, we have - we have ways of monitoring those groups and trying to figure out numbers, but it is a very scattered group of individuals certainly with different causes that, for the most part, are signing on and signing up to come to this event.

BALDWIN: And as you pointed out, the biggest variable being the unknown. What is challenge number one, sergeant, when it comes to that?

CRUMP: Well, the challenge - you know, it's not dealing with the numbers of people. Police organizations, including Phoenix, across the country deal with protests and demonstrations and a lot of people gathering. It's a case like this one where the challenge becomes trying to anticipate unlawful activity that might occur in conjunction with the event. You don't know what that's doing to be. You can follow the social media. You can - you can listen and watch and talk to organizers. Certainly we'll have eyes and ears on the ground. And we've got cameras that are in place to capture the things that go on and we'll have some road closures that are in the area to try to manage traffic and those types of things. But you're correct, it is - it's going to - the difficult portion of this is simply trying to anticipate if somebody wants to come in and turn this into an unlawful activity.

[14:05:05] BALDWIN: Sergeant Crump, thank you so much. We'll be watching. I hope all stays quiet. I hope you don't have too much of a job to do later on. I appreciate you on the phone.

Also with me, you know, in Phoenix, people of so many different religions are coming together to fight back against this message of this rally. I want to bring in U.S. Muslim youth group leader, Harris Zafar, keynote speaker at a religiously inclusive rally planned tomorrow in Phoenix.

So, Harris, thank you so much for coming on. And I just have to ask you first, you know, hearing about this event, hearing about this contest, your response?

HARRIS ZAFAR, SPOKESMAN, AHMADIYYA MUSLIM COMMUNITY USA: Well, thank you, Brooke, for having me on.

This rally in Phoenix today is just absolutely ridiculous. I mean actually calling people to assemble with armed weapons and to likely shout abuses or shout at people coming in and out of a house of worship while wearing a shirt that says "f" Islam is beneath the integrity of any civilized person, which is why we believe that the freedom of will, the freedom of speech that has been gifted to us by God does come with some requirements to self-restrain that speech and self-restrain that action, to self-govern that. That this freedom of wills, freedom of speech does not give us a license to act stupid. Far from it. It actually implies the requirements that human beings are rational subjects.

And for that reason, like you said, the Ahmadiyya Muslim community is organ -- has been organizing a stop the crisis event tomorrow which is - which actually the only correction is, I'm not the keynote speaker. We have another member of our community who is the keynote speaker. But the whole intention behind that is working with other groups to build understanding and we don't do this because we think that we're some rational subjects.

BALDWIN: Right.

ZAFAR: Under the guidance of the halipa (ph) of the international alganous (ph) community, this is what we do. He tells us to build bridges. Islam is not beyond contempt or beyond being challenged, but let's do it in a way that we can understand each other, not try to create animosity and hatred for one another.

BALDWIN: Understood. Unfortunately, not everyone gets along. And the notion of islamophobia, this is not news. I guess my question to you being, you know very well, freedom of expression is what folks on the other side would be arguing here. And so how - how would you request these other folks to be able to express their views, perhaps not in this manner? What would you tell them?

ZAFAR: Well, I guess there's two things that come to mind. One is, I think the track record of many Muslim groups, and the Ahmadiyya Muslim community is just one of them, is that we are - we actually have open forums. But somebody - we've had many people ask us very challenging questions. And we welcome that. If anyone has any issues with how they view Islam to be, what's written on the Koran, as the organizer said with Anderson Cooper last night, to come to us and actually hear it from us. Don't hear it from the hate mongers and the evil dooers out there that try to create separation.

But then secondly, as a society, the same way we would push back against homophobic acts or rhetoric, usages of the "n" word, all the things that we know as a society are legally protected but that we just wouldn't accept, that we should be able to push back and say that you are the ones that's causing division and discord and so let's find a better way to deal with one - each other. And so for us it's just dialogue. We're willing to have dialogue, even with those that oppose us, which is why Pamela Geller doesn't want a dialogue. She wants a monologue. And she's the one that's kind of one of the - you know, the brains behind this type of movement. We've asked her to have a dialogue with us, an open debate with us, and she hasn't taken us up on the offer. That shows that this is not a sincere effort to understand one another.

BALDWIN: She was one of the organizers of the event in Garland, Texas - we all saw what happened there - just for context for our viewers. Harris Zafar, thank you. I really appreciate your time.

ZAFAR: Thank you so much, Brooke. Appreciate it.

BALDWIN: Now to this. We are getting word of a potentially deadly situation playing out in the skies above New York City. Someone is aiming a laser at pilots as they try to navigate one of America's busiest air spaces. Right now the feds are hunting down whoever is responsible for pointing these powerful green lasers, like this one, at five different commercial passenger jets at JFK Airport last night.

Joining me now, CNN aviation correspondent Rene Marsh.

And, I mean, just looking at some of the pictures of what it would be like, I imagine it's pretty blinding. We're talking to a pilot later on. Pretty blinding for a pilot. What - how are pilots responding?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: You know, they - they will say one thing. Whenever you talk to a pilot, they say this is no laughing matter. It's a dangerous midair distraction. They'll all tell you that.

These lasers can disorient the pilot, even temporarily blind the pilot. In some cases, Brooke, we've seen pilots had to be hospitalized because they had burned corneas. Going back to the situation that happened just last night between 9:30, 10:00, we're talking about five commercial planes struck with these green lasers. Take a listen to the pilot's reaction in the seconds after it happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[14:10:03] PILOT: I thought it was just a rogue laser, but they were - they were definitely aiming for us a couple times. And we saw it a couple times into the cockpit.

ATC: I've had two aircraft right over where you are got struck by a green laser. American 185, if you see a green laser be careful. A green laser might be in your vicinity right now.

PILOT: American 185, we just - we just had a laser strike, left side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: So, Brooke, you know, you want to know what it's like, imagine yourself being in a car that's pitch black and then someone snaps a camera, snaps the flash on a camera. And you know how your eye just have to adjust. Well, and that -

BALDWIN: Yes, no, thank you.

MARSH: Yes, exactly. And then add on to that you're flying a plane with people on board. You're close to the ground. There are just so many variables here that could really make this be a deadly situation. Sadly, though, we see this happen thousands of times nationwide. Just last year alone, nearly 4,000 incidents reported to the FAA.

BALDWIN: That at one of the nation's busiest airports, and five different planes, and that's not it. I also wanted to ask you, Rene, about someone flying a drone over Brooklyn, like 3,000 feet up, and that caused a separate incident for another jet.

MARSH: Yes, between lasers and these drones, it really was a dicey situation for pilots. You're talking about a situation that happened just this morning. This was a shuttle America flight, 2708. Essentially this flight, it originated here in Washington, D.C., was bound for New York City's LaGuardia. The pilot was coming in for landing and then spotted this drone. So the pilot, last minute, had to climb 200 feet. I mean that's a lot to go through as you're coming in or bringing a plane in for landing, which is one of the most dangerous phases of flight. This happened when the plane was at about 2,700 feet in the air. That was right over Brooklyn. So now they're on the hunt for - to see who's behind that situation.

BALDWIN: Rene Marsh, thank you.

MARSH: Sure.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, a mother and her son, he was seven, shot and killed in Baltimore, adding to the deadliest month in two decades. We have more on that.

Also, as we are getting new video of the charged officers in the Freddie Gray case in Baltimore, they are hugging, and without cuffs, walking into jail.

Plus, one of the most powerful people in America, a former House speaker, accused of using hush money to hide a secret in his past. But the question is, what's the secret?

And, as critics pounce on the Duggar family over an abuse scandal, should the reality show go on because of this? We'll discuss that.

You're watching CNN. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:47] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We have to talk about what's happening in Baltimore here. There's a mother and her seven-year-old son, they are the latest victims for this violent crime wave in the city. Police say 31-year-old Jennifer Jeffrey Brown and her son Kester were shot and killed, shot in their head inside their home by an unknown assailant.

You see this, a man falling to the ground here grieving or the loss in this community. The suspect, still at large. Police were called to the home after neighbors noticed Jeffrey Brown had not left to take her young son to school.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This person is an absolute coward to shoot a child in the head and snatch his life away from him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Want to bring in Miguel Marquez, who's been in Baltimore for weeks and weeks and weeks, and also I have with me retired New Jersey police detective and former member of the FBI joint terrorism task force, Steve Rogers.

And so I want to talk about two points in Baltimore, but this being the first. I mean, listen, when we keep talking about numbers and the highest rate in eight years of whatever the number is, when I woke up this morning and I was reading "The Baltimore Sun" that a seven-year- old child was shot in his head, this has got to stop the sergeant saying - calling the killer a coward

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a war zone in Baltimore. People are afraid to leave their neighborhoods just a few blocks away. They're afraid to leave their homes. They are afraid it's going to get worse.

We had a police officer speak to us a couple of weeks ago and despite the fact that the police commissioner has said there is no work slowdown, the facts seem to show there is a work slowdown. Arrests are say down more than 50 percent. Homicides and shootings, nonfatal shootings, skyrocketing, about 80 percent. There were two more last night. This weekend, it's getting hotter there. There appears to be a turf war of some sort going on amongst drug dealers. It is going to get worse unless the police get ahold of what is happening in Baltimore.

BALDWIN: What's happening with police?

STEVE ROGERS, FORMER MEMBER, FBI JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Brooke, I don't believe there's a work slowdown. And we've said this before, the political establishment there, the prosecutor and the mayor sent a chilling tone to every police officer, not only in Baltimore but across the country. These fellas are doing their job. But you know what, when they went out and did it aggressively, they were told to hold back.

BALDWIN: Steve, I know you - I know you talk politics, but, I mean, hearing from Miguel talking to this active officer saying they are holding back, I hear you saying they've been given a message but -

MARQUEZ: The police - if the police commissioner himself said that police officers are telling him they are afraid to make arrests, because if they make a mistake, are they going to go to jail?

ROGERS: All right, Miguel, I believe that, OK? But the fact of the matter is, is that when they are looking - when they're going to make arrests, when they're going to be aggressive towards crime, they are afraid to go to jail.

And another thing is, you know, police officers are preferably proactive. They have a sixth sense. You know in a neighborhood if someone belongs there or not. They don't have to do that.

Look, you guys are reporters. You're passionate for your job. You got the extra mile. You don't have to do that. Police officers don't have to do that. As long as they do their job, according to law, and they are doing their job according to law. And sadly to say, this is the type of law enforcement that the political establishment wants. They got it. They've got to support the cops. Not on - I'm not talking about bad cops. They should go to jail, bad cops.

[14:20:07] BALDWIN: I understand. I understand. Let me - let me also - I wanted to bring this up if you haven't seen this. this is another issue within Baltimore city police department. Some of the officers indicted in Freddie Gray's death were caught here on video. So here they were. This is from weeks ago. They were turning themselves in. They were not cuffed. And you see here an embrace with fellow officers at this jail as they were getting out of the vans. And this particular embrace has sparked a lot of criticism. One person tweeting, quote, "before it's over, they'll probably be given the keys to the city." Should people be upset about this?

Steve, let me just begin with you. I mean here you have these officers and a lot of people are juxtaposing this obviously to what happened with Freddie Gray and the van and here you have these officer sort of walking on into the jail. Is this even proper protocol?

ROGERS: No, it isn't. And it is inappropriate. Look, we have to have -

BALDWIN: OK, it's not. ROGERS: Look, symbolism, messages, words mean lot. Whether they're guilty or not, that's up to a court. But you know what, it bothers me somewhat because the message has to be equal justice for all. And I'm a police officer, a career cop, but I'm hurt over seeing what I see.

BALDWIN: It doesn't look equal. That's what people are pointing out.

ROGERS: But it doesn't - it doesn't look good in the eyes of the people. And you know what, perception is reality.

MARQUEZ: Well, that's - that's the biggest problem they have. Baltimore police not even answering the question, is it proper protocol? Rather saying it was an extraordinary circumstance. They agreed to turn themselves in. They were picked up, transported and turned themselves in. Basically side stepping the question of whether or not this was proper protocol. I don't think anybody in those neighborhoods in Baltimore that sees that video is going to say, ah, that's just the cops being (INAUDIBLE).

ROGERS: And, you know what, you're right, Miguel, maybe show your compassion out of view of cameras and the public. That was really not necessary.

BALDWIN: Steve Rogers, Miguel Marquez, thank you guys very much.

Next here on CNN, ISIS taking over this ancient city of Palmyra in Syria. But are conditions there better than under Assad? We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:26:13] BALDWIN: Want to share these pictures. Pretty incredible pictures from inside of an ancient Syrian city captured by ISIS. Look at this with me. This is Palmyra's infamous prison. This is video shot by ISIS and it shows clearly pitiful conditions in which opponents of Bashar al Assad's regime were subject to. These prisoners have now been freed by the terrorists. And what we are seeing there in Palmyra is simply incredible. People who have been victims of the Syrian government's war are now finding some warped version of peace under the black flag of ISIS. But let me be crystal clear here, the brutality continues for government soldiers. These terrorists reportedly used the ancient roman ruins there as a theater for public executions.

Joining me now, Graeme Wood, contributing editor for "The Atlantic."

Graeme, welcome back.

GRAEME WOOD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC": Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Really wanted to talk with you today about this piece in "The New York Times" this morning on Palmyra and on this - something unusual that appears to be happening there because when you read as far as ISIS control, they're turning the power back on, the water pumps are now flowing. They've even opened the lone bakery in town and are handing out free bread. So life seems better, provided, I suppose, that you're not an Assad loyalist. But it can't possibly be.

WOOD: Well, you know, ISIS is really trying to portray itself as an alternative to a terrible situation that's created by Bashar al Assad. So once they kick out the Assad forces, the first thing they need to do is to show the population that they can provide something that's a credible alternative to what they've had before. And that's what they're doing. They're trying to kill everyone they have to kill and then to reward everyone who allows them to go about their ISIS business.

BALDWIN: Their ISIS business. So killing some people and handing free bread out to others. I'm trying to follow you here. And then the other part of Palmyra, why it's so significant, is you have these, you know, stunning, beautiful ruins that have stood since the first century. But so far, you know, ISIS has left them intact, unlike what we saw in Mosul. Why is that happening? What's at play here, Graeme?

WOOD: Well, one thing that ISIS wants to do is to show that they're not going to just go in there and just wreak havoc, just destroy. So they're targeting their killing. They're very careful about what they're destroying and what they're allowing to stand. And those ruins have been there, of course, for thousands of years. And more recently they've been part of sustenance of the economy of that city. It's a place where tourists have gone. And so if ISIS went in there and just destroyed that, then they would make a lot of enemies really quickly and show that they weren't in the business of trying to make the city sustainable again economically. So what they -

BALDWIN: But they already have so many enemies, Graeme. Why do they care?

WOOD: Well, they care about the local population because they're always looking one city ahead. What they have to keep in mind is, if they want to keep expanding into other parts of Syria, they have to know that - they want people who are in the next city that they might reach to know that they're going to be stewards of that city, that they're not going to just destroy but try to maintain it as part of an ISIS state. And so they want to make sure that Palmyra stands as an example to the next city that might fall.

BALDWIN: OK. They want the word to get out. So also, as the paper pointed out this morning, you know, this is the first Syrian city that ISIS has taken from the government, not from insurgents. But I'm left wondering, what's the catch? I mean what is the long game here for ISIS and those who live in a city like this?

[14:29:52] WOOD: Well, what ISIS wants to do is to endure and to expand. And so what they're showing right here is what it looks like when they expand into the territory that Bashar al Assad held.