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What's Next for Duggar Show; "Brain Sport" Helps Win Spelling Bees; Former House Speaker Indicted. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 29, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:07] GRAEME WOOD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC": You know, ISIS would not have any popularity if the Bashar al Assad government weren't so violent and so difficult to endure for many populations, especially Sunni, and so that's the long game here, to show that Palmyra is going to be a place where Sunnis can live and prosper. Of course, it's not going to be a good life, but they want to show that it'll be better for them than Bashar al Assad's government.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Graeme Wood with "The Atlantic," good to have you on.

WOOD: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Up next, after allegations of sexual molestation by Josh Duggar from the show, "19 Kids and Counting," started surfacing, sponsors started pulling out. Should TLC drop the show, and should they? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:08] BALDWIN: Just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Question, is the Duggar clan doomed on television? Reports that Josh Duggar molested girls as a teenager, including his own sisters, may have put the show close to the chopping block. TLC has pulled replays amid a growing chorus to cancel the show.

Joining me now, "Daily Beast" entertainment columnist, Kevin Fallon.

Nice to have you, sir.

KEVIN FALLON, ENTERTAINMENT COLUMNIST, DAILY BEAST: Thank you.

BALDWIN: So, your lead line in your piece, "There's nothing I hate more than when TV lives up to its bad reputation." What do you mean?

FALLON: Everyone deplores reality TV. They say it's sort of the culture.

BALDWIN: Yet, we all rubber neck and watch it anyway.

FALLON: No one likes to watch a train wreck more than America. I actually like reality TV and think it has an important purpose in sort of confronting some of the more unpleasant aspects of our culture. But then you have stuff like the Duggar scandal, which makes everyone who says reality TV is terrible correct.

BALDWIN: It's disgusting when you hear about everything involved here. We'll get to whether you think it's going to be yanked, but you make this point in your piece, which I have an issue with, and you're saying, if we're all watching this, as you refer to it as empty calories, we're all kind of complicit. I want you to explain how we're complicit perhaps in the demise of what happened.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I'm thinking I'm not complicit in this.

FALLON: We're happy to watch these people and sort of make them zoo exhibits of sorts and exploit their culture and their way of living that's different from the way we live ourselves. We sort of turn their religion and their beliefs into this thing to point and laugh at and entertain us. We're happy to do that.

BALDWIN: But then?

FALLON: But then stuff like this happens, which might be associated with, you know, that religion and with those beliefs. It's not just with the Duggars. It's things like Honey Boo Boo. This is a very down-home family but also a family that's tainted and corrupt and has these bad thing going on too. So we're happy to entertain ourselves at these curious things, but we're not happy to take the blame when we've created stars out of these people who are not exactly role models that we should be looking up to.

BALDWIN: You mentioned Honey Boo Boo. That show was yanked. "Duck Dynasty" yanked. It's still technically in limbo, even though all these advertisers have pulled out. Call it.

FALLON: I think it's going to be yanked. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, at least not in the next week. What people don't really know is there aren't currently cameras following around Duggars. They're not in production, which takes away from --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Don't they have material in the can?

FALLON: They have a little, yeah. But they don't have to say pull production. They could wait and see how this plays out. Maybe it'll blow over. I hope it doesn't because this is horrible. But there is a chance for that. If it does, they might decide maybe they're going to explore the family through the lens of the scandal and some upcoming specials, which could be interesting.

BALDWIN: To the point -- a "Washington Post" TV critic, Hank Suber (ph), I wanted to share his point of view: "Now is not the time to cancel it," he writes, "Now is the time for TLC to double down and present America, at last, with a truly unscripted show about a family enduring a crisis largely of its own making. Cancellation would erase the Duggars from popular culture just at the moment that they've become more real."

So this is a moment -- as they say, a teachable moment. I supposed would be part of what he's saying, a say they can take that. To your point.

FALLON: Yeah. I was talking about how we're all complicit in this. TLC is more complicit.

BALDWIN: How long had they known?

FALLON: No one knows for sure, but they definitely knew. There's all this talk -- first of all, the family knew. The parents knew when it happened.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: For years.

FALLON: For years, for over a decade. There's a lot of talk about how they were supposed to appear on Oprah at one point. That was canceled. So TLC definitely knew and definitely kept going. This could be a chance to own up to their part in this. Also, their part in a lot of other controversies and other shameful things that have happened on their network.

BALDWIN: Confront it.

Kevin Fallon, "Daily Beast," thank you so much.

FALLON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Come back. Appreciate it.

FALLON: Of course.

[13:39:30] BALDWIN: Next, last night's spelling bee ended in a tie. For the past eight years, the winners of the Scripps Spelling Bee have been South-Asian-Americans. People are writing today about this trend. Wait until you hear this next theory about the parents, actually, and these elite spellers, they see it as "brain sport," the phrase this professor uses. We'll have a chat coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The rates of sexually transmitted diseases are going up in some states. Experts think they know why. It's called Tinder, or Craig's List or Grinder. In short, social media and applications are helping people hook up in ways like never before. Let's take a look at a study out of Rhode Island. This study shows that the 1980s compared to now, syphilis up 79 percent. Gonorrhea up 30 percent. And new cases of HIV up 33 percent. The experts asked themselves, why are we seeing these big increases? We didn't see these kinds of increases from the '80s to the '90s. They think one big reason is now we have these apps and these social media websites. It's as easy as swiping right to make that love connection and hookup with someone or someones very quickly. But, of course, you can't blame the sites. They're not making people have promiscuous sex. There's personal responsibility here. People need to ask each other, hey, have you been tested? If you haven't, I want you to be tested. And of course, condoms should be used.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:45] BALDWIN: Nunatak -- and I saying that right? I need one of these 13 year olds to tell me. Nunatak, definition, a hill or mountain completely encircled by a glacier. This was the final word that declared two national Scripps Spelling Bee champions last night. Here they are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you spell this word correctly, the Scripps National Spelling Bee will declare you and Vanya co-champions.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nunatak.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Nunatak. Nunatak, n-u-n-a-t-a-k, nunatak.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Two winners. We have a 14-year-old from Missouri and a 13- year-old from Kansas. Those words featured in recent competitions are practically unheard of, rarely, if ever used in every day speech.

I want you to look at this. These have some of the final words from previous years. In 1984, luge. In 1970, croissant. I think I could handle those. Those at the top, maybe not so much. This is the second straight year Scripps has called a tie. It's also the eighth straight year the winners happen to be South-Asian-Americans.

Coincidence? Maybe not so, according to my next guest, an anthropology and Asian-Americans studies professor at Northwestern University. She is Shalini Shankar. She spent the week with the 283 elite spellers who participated in this year's competition. She's doing all this research into what's behind this pattern of success.

So, Professor Shankar, welcome.

SHALINI SHANKAR, PROFESSOR OF ANTHROPOLOGY AND ASIAN-AMERICAN STUDIES, NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY: Thank you so much for having me.

BALDWIN: Love a good Scripps Spelling Bee. When I was reading your piece, I have so many questions for you, beginning with -- I mean, when you're with these young, bright minds and they talk about this is, what, brain sport, I mean, what are they doing, reading the dictionary every day for hours?

SHANKAR: Some of them, yes. But others of them just really enjoy the English language. They've a fascination with words and word games. So for them, this is a lot of fun.

BALDWIN: As far as where they are hailing from, this one particular part of the world, and we're seeing this trend. You say it's not a coincidence. Tell me why.

SHANKAR: I think that there are some important factors to consider, including that many of the winners we see are from well-educated immigrants who are from India primarily. They're well educated. They're elite in terms of having the ability to help train their children for these kinds of events. And they're really not representative of the entire South-Asian-American population in the United States. They're really a small subsection of that already small population.

BALDWIN: Why -- so when you're looking at the subsection and looking at these parents, how much of all of this -- and this has to be pretty pressure filled, although as you point out, bragging rights to be on ESPN as a kid. How much of this is coming from the parents versus the kids?

SHANKAR: I think it has to be both. I think the parents have to be invested in terms of wanting to spend that kind of time after work and on weekends with their children. But then the children have to want it too. You can't will your child to be a champion or even an elite speller if they're not going to put in that kind of time and energy into it too. So I'd have to say it's a small number of kids who have the kinds of family support and interest where this happens.

BALDWIN: So if you're talking to these kids and were to give them this option of winning the little league world series versus winning and being on ESPN for the Scripps Howard Spelling Bee, what would they really choose?

SHANKAR: Oh, I think they would choose the spelling bee. These kids especially. They're such fans of language and reading and literacy.

BALDWIN: Good for them.

SHANKAR: And I think this is their holy grail. Yeah.

BALDWIN: My final question I know there's a very specific age range that you can compete in this bee. You say it sort of suddenly ends when you're the ripe old age of 14. So then what?

SHANKAR: Well, once your spelling career ends, as they call it, you go on to be a normal high school kid, and hopefully have a productive life afterward, which most of these champions are just stars. So, of course, they will.

BALDWIN: Kind of a big deal, I guess, at their high schools, getting these kinds of bragging rights, I suppose.

SHANKAR: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Shalini Shankar, so interesting. Good luck with the research.

SHANKAR: Thank you so much.

BALDWIN: Good luck and thank you for coming in.

SHANKAR: Thank you.

[14:50:12] BALDWIN: Coming up next, the scandal that has D.C. buzzing. Listen, he was one of the most powerful people in America. Now former speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, indicted, accused of lying to federal agents and paying hush money. But what for? What's the secret? We'll talk to Michael Smerconish about this one, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:54:44] BALDWIN: The longest-serving Republican speaker of the House has now been indicted by federal authorities. He's Dennis Hastert. He's accused of paying hush money to an unidentified person to, quote, "compensate and conceal prior misconduct."

Here's the thing. We don't know what kind of misconduct that was, but what we do know is that prosecutors say Hastert skirted bank laws to withdraw $3.5 million and then lie about it to the FBI.

Also noteworthy here, this indictment highlights Hastert's relationship with this unidentified person, who is just known as individual "A."

So with me now, CNN political commentator and host of CNN's "Smerconish," Michael Smerconish.

You read the seven-page indictment. The question is, obviously, what's being concealed? What jumped out at you?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: The very first line.

BALDWIN: What?

SMERCONISH: The very first line identified Dennis Hastert as a former high school teacher and coach. It didn't say wrestling, but we all know he was a wrestling coach. What a curious way --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Why point that out off the top?

SMERCONISH: Why not identify him as a former house speaker, the way you just did? Further along in the indictment, there's reference made to individual "A." Painstakingly, the individual who wrote the indictment doesn't reveal the gender of individual "A." Is it a man, a woman? We don't know. We do know individual "A" has known Dennis Hastert for much of or most of his or her life. Put two and two together, it tells me the conduct stems from the time he was a coach and high school teacher and that this was arguably a young person at the time. That's my speculation. But I think it's grounded in the indictment.

BALDWIN: We know that, what, he was at the school as a teacher and a coach all the way back to 19 --

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: I mean, 40, 50 years ago. Now, this raises another question. What conduct 40 or 50 years ago --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Didn't it start the whole payment process?

SMERCONISH: 2010 is when he's apparently contacted by this individual. The payment process begins. Remember, what he's being charged with is lying to feds. The word is structuring. You can't take more than ten grand out of the bank without the feds knowing about it. Now I'm assembling more of these elements. I'm saying to myself, for what conduct would the statute of limitations not have run 40 or 50 years ago? Only murder. He didn't murder anybody. Here's what I'm getting at, Brooke. I'm wondering who the real victim is here. If, in fact, he's paying someone so that something isn't revealed where there's no legally cognizable claim, perhaps, allegedly, reportedly, he could be a victim of extortion.

BALDWIN: The -- what you hear from people who knew him, who worked with him in Congress, he was known as coach in Congress. They are absolutely befuddled.

SMERCONISH: Flabbergasted.

BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah. Tell me more about his legacy.

SMERCONISH: It was a reputation for being amiable with his colleagues. There's the Hastert Rule, which says we're not going to bring legislation to the floor, we Republicans, unless we have enough votes to pass it. Some say that that was a key point in the road map toward polarization. So you can read his legacy in terms of whether he was a facilitator or an obstructionist, in one of two different ways. This is also an interesting period of time. Newt had been the speaker. Then a guy named Bob Livingston came in briefly. He had some baggage. He couldn't hold the job. Then Hastert came. The three of them were very antagonistic towards Bill Clinton because of his peccadilloes at the time. So there are also looming questions of hypocrisy.

BALDWIN: Now with this indictment, what happens? We're sitting here just reading between the lines in this indictment. But is it possible that one could never know, one could never discover what the misconduct is? Or do you think it will come out eventually?

SMERCONISH: I think it will give out. I would give it the over/under tomorrow morning. BALDWIN: Tomorrow morning?

SMERCONISH: I think it's too explosive of a story. Obviously, we know that individual "A" cooperated with law enforcement because Dennis Hastert sure as hell didn't tell the feds the reason for the transactions. Hastert was telling them he'd lost faith in the banking industry. That rule that says you can't take out more than 10 grand without the whistle being blown, he was brazen. He was taking out 50K installments in cash. It also raises other questions about how was he able to do so well so soon after leaving the House? That tells you want the role a lobbyist can play.

BALDWIN: Right. You're all over this tomorrow morning.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Not tomorrow. Today is Friday.

SMERCONISH: I think it is.

BALDWIN: Tomorrow morning.

(LAUGHTER)

Sometimes you forget.

Michael Smerconish. Make sure you watch him, 9:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. on Saturday.

Thank you so much.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

[14:59:35] BALDWIN: We'll look for you.

And we continue on. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Tonight, come armed, come angry. That is the message from a former Marine who hates Islam. And he's calling on protesters to gather outside a mosque in Phoenix. Right now, the FBI and Phoenix police are ramping up security here at this mosque. This event will test the fine line between freedom of speech and freedom of religion. We're told it includes a Draw Muhammad cartoon contest.