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Fate of Former Guantanamo Bay Detainees?; Live Anthrax Shipped; Surveillance Debate. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 29, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And it's happening outside that very same Phoenix mosque where those two gunmen with ties to ISIS, inspired by ISIS, this is where they -- these two roommates prayed weeks before they ambushed a similar cartoon contest in Texas earlier this month.

So, the man leading tonight's rally is Jon Ritzheimer. He even plans to hand out his signature T-shirt that says -- well, you can take a look at the picture and figure out what it says.

Let me bring in first Sara Sidner. She's in Phoenix for us.

And tell me exactly why they want to do this and where they're doing this.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're saying that it's in response to what happened in Garland, Texas, just three weeks ago with the two men who did pray at this mosque, who were living here in Phoenix, who were roommates, in fact, who went to try and ambush that meeting of people who were drawing Mohammed -- Prophet Mohammed cartoons.

And so they're expecting quite a few people. I mean, if you go on the Facebook where they have put this particular information out, the invitation out, more than 900 people have now signed up for that. That is way up from the 400 that we saw just yesterday. So, there are quite a few people who are saying they're going to show up to this, to the rally and to the drawing contest.

We should also tell you that Jon Ritzheimer has said that he's now gone into hiding. He's received threats. We have seen at least one of those threats on Twitter. I got that sent to me by a concerned citizen on Twitter last night, someone who was threatening him and actually published his address, where he and his family lives, so this group growing larger as the story grows larger.

They're seeing more of it obviously on social media and in the mainstream media as well. I should also mention to you, you know, that this is supposed to happen out here in the evening time, in a few hours from now, and that the police are definitely watching. And the people who go to this mosque, we have already seen one person go in to pray. They're concerned. And they're concerned for their safety.

Here's what one of the community members had to say about this threat of bringing arms to this rally. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IMRAAN SIDDIQI, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS: Any time people are bringing weapons and encouraging to bring weapons to protests, this has happened here, you know, this upcoming protest -- this happened at a -- outside of an Islamic event in Garland, Texas.

And we're seeing more and more of this intersection of gun culture taking place. So there is a fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: There is a fear.

We have talked to some residents here too. Now, to help assuage some of those fears, there is definitely some equipment out here that's going to be watching along with police. We know the police have put up this camera here. We know there are several other. I'm counting one, two, three, four of these kinds of cameras who -- that have been put up just overnight. We did not notice them yesterday.

They are now here today to keep track of the crowd. The police are being quite proactive on this. In fact, we were told that the mosque was alerted by the police about this group planning to have its rally. The people are saying, look, we're going to be peaceful. This is about a freedom of speech issue.

But now there's a lot of different issues there. And on the Facebook, Brooke, they're saying, look, we're going to exercise our Second Amendment right in case our First Amendment right comes under much anticipated attack. So they are anticipating that there's going to be some violence and that has a lot of people worried -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes, I'm talking to a sergeant out of Phoenix last hour. He said, listen, they have been working on this with the feds ahead of this for weeks. And the biggest challenge is just simply the unknown, what people are threatening potentially vs. action. Sara Sidner, thank you, in Phoenix.

Now to this. Nearly two years after Edward Snowden exposed the NSA, National Security Agency's secret collection of the private data of millions of Americans, most of those programs still exist. But come this Sunday at midnight, key parts of the controversial Patriot Act could expire if lawmakers do not renew them.

For supporters of the act, this is all about national security, especially from groups like ISIS. But for those who feel reform is needed, one of the biggest issues is the way the law has been applied.

Former federal prosecutor and CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is here with me.

So, Patriot Act, you say that -- you said claims from both sides appear to be wrong. What do you mean?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Correct. Correct. Here you have -- you have the supporters of current law who say this is saving us from terrorism. But, in fact, they can't point to any terrorism that's actually been stopped as a result of this very large collection of data.

BALDWIN: That we know of.

TOOBIN: That we -- well, that they know of.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

TOOBIN: I mean, they haven't even been able to point to it.

The opponents of the law say this is a massive violation of individual civil liberties, but they can't point to any individual who has really been harmed in any way from the collection of this data. Remember, this data exists. The phone company has the records of every call you make.

[15:05:05]

So, really, the only thing that's in controversy here is whether the government takes that data right away or the government -- or the data stays with the phone company. And then the government can look at it later if they want. It's not that big a difference between the two.

BALDWIN: So, do you think the Patriot Act will die?

TOOBIN: You know, it's really starting to look like there is no deal here to be made.

The Senate and the House are having a very unusual weekend negotiation because it expires at the end of Sunday. Yes, it does look like this part of the Patriot Act may expire, but that doesn't mean the NSA is going to go out of business. This is one program in particular that is the focus of so much controversy. And, again, people talk about, oh, they know the numbers you're going to -- that you call. Well, of course they do, because the phone company has to bill you.

And so it's always seemed to me that some of the hysteria about this program has been a little overblown because, you know, this data is no secret.

BALDWIN: So, if this part of the Patriot Act does after this weekend go away, then -- then what happens? If that information is already going to exist and the NSA isn't going anywhere, then what?

TOOBIN: Well, that seems to be somewhat of a mysterious answer right now, because there are these two opposing bills, the House bill and the Senate bill, but what happens if no bill passes? That's the situation that at this point seems like it might be quite likely.

If no bill passes, the government will figure out some way to get this data, but it will probably have to jump through a few more hoops. Maybe it will be some sort of court authorization. But the NSA is not, as you say, going out of business. BALDWIN: OK. Jeff Toobin, thank you.

TOOBIN: All right, Brooke Baldwin.

BALDWIN: OK.

Got some news just into CNN here on that whole anthrax accident. It apparently may be worse than previously thought. Remember, we were reporting on this the past couple of days, U.S. military accidentally shipped those live samples of anthrax to several states, including South Korea.

So, Barbara Starr has been all over this at the Pentagon.

Barbara Starr, what do you mean could be worse?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Oh, it's beginning to get just a little bit bigger for the Pentagon in terms of being a problem.

BALDWIN: Uh-oh.

STARR: You know, so, we reported 22 shipments over the last year, nine states and to South Korea. The Army discovered that some of these shipments now believed to contain live anthrax spores, at least one of the labs reporting it got live anthrax. They went back, they looked at everything, live anthrax mixed in. They're trying to figure out who actually got what.

But now they are going back further in their inventory, and they're testing everything, all the anthrax spores that they have, to see what the status is, whether they're -- the ones that are dead really are dead. And what we have now been told is an inventory they tested at Dugway from 2008 has turned up to have live spores in it.

So where did they send that anthrax? They have gone back through the records. Part of that anthrax was shipped to Australia. They have now had to ring up the Australians and tell them, sorry, you may have live anthrax. We didn't mean it to be live. We thought it was dead. So the Australians going through what they got from the U.S. Army, testing it all.

Look, Brooke, the bottom line here is for days now the Pentagon struggling to figure out what's really involved here. And what we're now expecting is the top Pentagon leadership is going to have to order a top-to-bottom review. Who's got what? What's live anthrax? What's dead anthrax? But, most important, of course, how did this happen? Are procedures not working correctly? Are the safety tests not working right? Is the irradiation not working right?

They have to find out really at this point what happened here because they are getting surprised every day -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Calling up the Australians, my goodness. Barbara Starr, thank you very much for the update here on the anthrax. Appreciate it at the Pentagon.

STARR: Sure.

BALDWIN: We will follow it with you.

Next, two frightening incidents involving passenger planes, the first, someone aiming lasers at five commercial jets in one of America's busiest airspaces. That's one. Number two here, a flight comes precariously close with a drone. We have what happened there.

Also, time is up to decide the fate of those five Taliban detainees, remember this, who were swapped for Bowe Bergdahl. Hear the options looking ahead they could be facing.

And a new tip in the Natalee Holloway case. Here we are, 10 years later, this man coming forward saying he saw her just before she was buried, a CNN exclusive ahead.

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[15:14:13]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We're following this disturbing trend with potentially deadly consequences. We now know pilots on five different commercial airliners had their aircrafts targeted by green lasers as they flew right around 8,000 feet over New York City.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was just a rogue laser, but they were definitely aiming for us a couple times, because we saw it a couple times into the cockpit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have had two aircraft right over where you are got struck by a green laser.

American 185, you see any green, be careful. A green laser might be in your vicinity right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American 185, we just -- we just had a laser strike, left side.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All of the flights did make it on to their destinations without incident, but police are right now trying to figure out who did this.

As you can see, this is FBI video here, just to show you what it would be like if you were in the cockpit here. The lasers are very powerful and can be at times blinding for a pilot.

[15:15:04]

Les Abend would know, CNN aviation analyst and 777 captain.

You were telling me you, not directly, but peripherally, were -- had a laser at you.

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes. And it was a green light, and it's best to get it at a peripheral angle, because if you get it directly into the eye, it could possibly cause cornea damage, retina damage.

It's very distracting. It's not just like having a flash flight going off in your eyes. This is a pinpoint of light directed at the most important part. Now, it can be debilitating, where you cannot see your instrumentation.

I do want to comfort our traveling public that there's another pilot always in the airplane. If not one, there could be three of us in the cockpit. So, I had that. Fortunately, it was peripheral. I had a colleague going into Miami on approach. And a lot of times, these do happen during approaches.

He got it in his eye and got blurry. And his comment was to the co- pilot, you have the airplane, it's your approach. Now, there was no permanent damage. He did ground himself immediately after and went to get himself examined.

The FAA here -- and I think you might have -- be able to put this up on the screen...

BALDWIN: Has a questionnaire.

ABEND: Has a questionnaire that goes into the details and the specifics, where it happened, when it happened, what phase of flight, were you debilitated?

Air traffic control is also part of this. Did they report this incident? Where do they believe that it came from and so on and so forth? But these are small little devices.

BALDWIN: You were saying like a pen. I didn't believe you, but small.

ABEND: That's the -- that's basically the features of a laser.

BALDWIN: Incredible.

ABEND: Yes. It's just -- it's not a good thing.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about this. We're hearing someone was flying a drone over Brooklyn, some 3,000 feet up. And pilots had to actually pull up to avoid hitting it.

ABEND: Well, you know, here's another irresponsible individual...

BALDWIN: We have to worry about drones?

ABEND: ... that was operating probably -- now the popular drone is a quadcopter, and operating something irresponsibly that could interfere with...

BALDWIN: A plane.

ABEND: ... an airplane and lives of people. Yes. And I commend the crew for doing what they did. They probably thought it was close enough where they were being abundantly safe and climbed a couple hundred feet. Sounds like they were on approach into La Guardia. So...

BALDWIN: Lasers and drones.

ABEND: Why are these happening? I don't have an answer for you.

BALDWIN: Les Abend, thank you.

Next, it has been one year now since those five Taliban members were released from Guantanamo Bay, swapped for Bowe Bergdahl's freedom. That means their ban on traveling is just about up. Will that be extended? Will they be able to walk free? We will talk to Jake Tapper about that.

Also, a Texas highway comes to a standstill after floodwaters engulf this road. You see this? And with more rain on the way, people are wondering, will this get worse? We're live in Texas straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:20]

BALDWIN: This coming Sunday marks one year since this moment. Remember this? This is when Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl climbed on board that U.S. chopper, released from five years of Taliban captivity there in Afghanistan.

Now, since his homecoming, Bergdahl has been charged with desertion, and in exchange for his release, the U.S. transferred those five Guantanamo Bay inmates to Qatar. The agreement was that the five would be monitored for one year. And so, Monday, that agreement expires. That means the travel ban would then be lifted on these five different men. So, then what happens next?

Let's ask our CNN's host of CNN's "THE LEAD" and host of "STATE OF THE UNION." I'm going to get used to saying that. Congrats, by the way, Jake Tapper.

Let me ask you, because I remember recently, when we were talking about Bowe Bergdahl, there was talk potentially of extending that window, right, that they would be monitored beyond this one year. What is the likelihood of that happening?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's unclear right now, Brooke.

The one-year mark means that the arrangement with the country of Qatar is expiring. And right now, the State Department is taking the lead negotiating with Qatar separately, also possibly negotiating with Afghanistan. They're looking at four basic options. The first one is basically trying to maintain the status quo. These five Taliban stay in Qatar, remain monitored.

Option two is they stay in Qatar, but they're not monitored. Essentially, that would make it free for them, make them free to join the Taliban entity in Qatar. The third option would be in Afghanistan. And that would be the option of basically just sending them back to be released in Afghanistan. And then the fourth option would be sending them back to Afghanistan, but the government of Afghanistan would be in charge of keeping an eye on them.

Really, none of them are great options. And it's unclear how much sway the U.S. has in terms of what they're pushing for.

BALDWIN: OK. Can you just also briefly remind us who they are, these five, and wasn't one of them already trying to communicate with terrorists back home?

TAPPER: That's right. One of them was trying to be in touch with bad actors back in Afghanistan.

They are five fairly high-ranking Taliban officials. One of them had direct contact with al Qaeda, with Osama bin Laden, directly associated, according to the U.S. government. Another one of them was a Taliban commander who coordinated with a third member of this group. This is when they were fighting the Northern Alliance in 2001.

A fourth was head of the intelligence operation for the Taliban. And the fifth was head of communications for the Taliban. He also tried to help members of al Qaeda escape from Afghanistan into Pakistan. So they are five unsavory individuals when it comes to both the life of Americans and U.S. soldiers and the life of the Afghan people.

[15:25:07]

BALDWIN: Unsavory, indeed. Jake Tapper, we will see you at the top of the hour, as always, hosting "THE LEAD." Thank you so much, my friend.

TAPPER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And coming up next here, flooding brings traffic to a halt here. Look at this. This is a Texas highway. And more rain is on the way, how these folks are preparing for that coming up.

Also, is soda OK for kids? A lot of parents out there say nope, but should it be banned, actually, from kids' menus at restaurants? What about that step? One California town thinks so. We will discuss that next.

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