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O'Malley Running for President; Former House Speaker Accused of Paying Hush Money; Wichita State Student Killed Stopping Suicide Bomber; Taliban Five Travel Ban Expires on Monday; FBI Turns to Local Police to Track Terrorists in U.S.; Prosecutors: Suspect Sabotaged Fiance's Kayak; Ten Years Later, Possible New Lead in Holloway Case. Aired 11-12a ET

Aired May 30, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:22] RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you all very much. Appreciate that. Have a great day.

Let me bring in our colleague, CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny, he's in Baltimore. Jeff -- tell me first, what stood out to you in this speech?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: One of the things that stood out to me was really how Governor O'Malley tried to build a bridge between what's happening on Main Street and what's happening on Wall Street. He addressed head-on the challenges of Baltimore. He said that there are economic challenges that have caused the violence, have caused the protest.

So he drew a link, he drew a correlation between what is happening in this city and what's happening across the country. And then he drew a link and said that CEO of Goldman Sachs, of course, that big investment firm, would be happy with a President Bush or a President Clinton. He's trying to present himself as a new, progressive leader. So that actually stuck out to me that how he's trying to compare and draw a correlation between all of these economic problems.

KAYE: Did you -- Jeff, did you get a sense of confidence from him?

ZELENY: It's very loud at this rally here -- a lot of music and things behind me so I didn't exactly hear what you said but a few protesters interrupted the rally. But they were just a couple handful of them. He was able to deliver his speech without much interruption.

KAYE: All right. Jeff, appreciate it thank you very much.

Let me bring in our political panel now. CNN chief Washington Jeff Zeleny, please stick around though as well. Also national Democratic strategist Craig Varoga is live from our D.C. bureau, he was chief strategist for Governor O'Malley's 2010 reelection campaign and Republican strategist Brian Morgenstern is a fellow at the National Review Institute.

O'Malley makes the Democratic field grow by one, with Hillary Clinton and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders already running. What does O'Malley's entrance into the race mean for Clinton and Sanders? That is the big question. So Ron O'Malley -- Ron what do you think?

Ok. Brian, let me ask you what you think about that, then?

BRIAN MORGENSTERN, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Well, I think that Martin O'Malley is welcomed to the race by Republicans, because frankly, he is the poster boy for failed Democratic leadership. Baltimore has been in control of Democrats for about five decades, what do the residents have to show for it? High taxes, high crime, high poverty, extreme tension and racial strife.

Not only that -- Governor O'Malley's stump speech was basically complaining about the condition of America under Democratic leadership and his persona is sort of an everyday guy who can identify with ordinary Americans. It's just a routine reminder that Hillary Clinton is sort of an aloof aristocrat who doesn't give access to the press and is inaccessible to regular Americans. So as a Republican I guess I would say welcome to the race. We just feel bad that we didn't get him anything.

KAYE: Yes. Let me also bring in CNN senior politics correspondent Chris Moody who is also with us. Chris -- O'Malley, he couldn't even keep his own state in Democratic hands in last year's race for governor. How likely is he to win the Democratic nomination? And even more so, the presidency if you want to look that far?

MOODY: From where we stand right now, not very likely to take the nomination. But that doesn't mean he's going to not have an impact on the race. You know like people run for president for a lot of different reasons, some to raise their name ID, some to get issues out there and some is to win. I think with O'Malley, what he's going to bring to the table is certainly somebody that can have a record he can point to on progressive ideas, challenge Hillary Clinton.

We saw in his speech today he's not afraid to take her on. If you look back at her donation record, she has a lot of donations from Wall Street and that is something that I think O'Malley is going to be pushing very hard and he's going to have an opportunity on the debate stage to be kind of in between a Hillary Clinton and let's say a Bernie Sanders.

And I think he's a voice that I think Democrats will actually be glad to have in the race. Especially just in case something happens with Hillary Clinton's candidacy or she implodes. They'll need to have someone in the wings that can take the reins.

[11:05:01] Now there might be someone that could come in very quickly, but for O'Malley to start building a campaign right now, I don't think that hurts Democrats and also to have a robust debate in the primaries. Hillary doesn't want to go through this unencumbered. I really think she does.

KAYE: And Craig, let me ask you. You worked on O'Malley's gubernatorial campaign. What do you expect from him for this presidential run?

CRAIG VAROGA, NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well I think what we're going to see from him is a lot of what we saw in the speech. I think it was a very confident performance. I think he articulated very well the progressive side of the Democratic Party and his record.

And I think the thing that I found interesting toward the end of the speech is that you know he didn't blink about drawing a pretty explicit criticism of Secretary Clinton and he compared her to the Bush family. And I think he's probably going to use that frame and put some issues behind it in order to make his case to voters.

It's going to be very difficult and Hillary Clinton certainly is a very strong front-runner. But I think that's more of what we're going to see from him in the days and weeks ahead.

KAYE: And O'Malley I mean is aiming to make income inequality a major part of his platform. Does this push Hillary Clinton more to the left of her party? Even more so now, after Sanders has jumped in?

VAROGA: I think that there's a lot of unanimity in the Democratic Party on the issues. I think the challenge for Governor O'Malley is to find one or two issues where he can disagree with Secretary Clinton. Where he can say this is what I believe, this is what she believes and they're different and this is why you should vote for me instead of her.

That's what we need to see. That's what his campaign needs to do in order to be successful in the short run and get some traction and improve in the polls.

KAYE: Let me bring in MJ Lee, CNN Politics reporter to talk a little bit more about these women's issues. I mean women's issues will be key in the race MJ. Does Hillary Clinton get the edge because she's a woman, wife, mother, and now grandmother?

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Look, it's certainly an issue that Hillary Clinton has been talking about on the road. I think this time around it's been very interesting to see her talk about her family more. Talk about her personal life more. Talk about the fact that she is a grandmother. It makes her more likable and makes her more personable.

But Martin O'Malley is also a charismatic person. He's a good retail politician. We saw a lot of excitement behind us when he was talking to his supporters. I think it's important to keep in mind. And I know that Jeff talked about this a little bit earlier.

The protesters that showed up today, the issue of police brutality and the policing tactics that O'Malley used when he was mayor and governor -- that is going to follow him around. We're going to hear much more about that.

KAYE: Absolutely. And Brian, what does it say, that in the Democratic race, the woman candidate is the front-runner and on the GOP side, you have Carly Fiorina. I mean she may get pushed off the debate stage by the GOP debate organizers?

MORGENSTERN: Well I think most voters are less concerned with gender or race or identity politics than they are with the politicians' policies and experience and record. So I don't know that that matters a whole lot.

But another point I want to touch on that we touched on before. I am not normally one to give credit to early polls. But there was one that caught my eye. This was among Democrats in Maryland. When Governor O'Malley was still governor they were asked who would they prefer, Hillary Clinton or Martin O'Malley? This is in Maryland and Secretary Clinton won 63-3.

So that is -- I've seen closer scores in video games set on easy mode. He has a tough road ahead to distinguish himself. I don't think Secretary Clinton is ahead in the Democratic primary because she's a woman. I think she's ahead, you know, because she's more of a national name brand. She has more of a record that people are aware of. And so, you know, I think the identity politics question is not necessarily relevant here. But again, Governor O'Malley has a very tough road ahead.

KAYE: And Chris, let me get back to you on how much MJ touched on this. But how much will the Baltimore riots following Freddie Gray's death hurt O'Malley given his record there in Baltimore with police and use of force?

MOODE: Well when he was mayor and when he was governor, he supported the zero tolerance policies that a lot of people say may have led to a lot of this frustration between the police and the people who live there. And that is something concrete that people can see. It's not a number or a data, a piece of data. It's people's lives and it's visuals that the people will be reminded of.

And remember, when he went back to Baltimore, at the height of the riots when they were really just starting out. He was shouted down. People recognized him and said this is your fault. Now whether that's completely fair or not, the perception is there and it's something he's going to have to try to explain when he's on the campaign trail.

But also, this is, I think this is campaign-wide. Republicans and Democrats, even Hillary Clinton in the 1990s, in the 2000s, spoke a lot about increasing police and being tough on crime. And you see a lot of candidates moving away from that and trying to find another way forward on criminal justice.

[11:10:13] So it's not just O'Malley that I think is going to have to answer a lot of these questions.

KAYE: It's one thing to make a big announcement. The question is where do you go from here. Craig, you know O'Malley well. What's next?

VAROGA: Well, I think the first thing he needs to do after explicitly talking about running against Secretary Clinton is to deal with the Bernie Sanders factor. Sanders is ahead of him in the polls, Sanders has raised a lot of money. Until he gets around Bernie Sanders, he's not going to get traction against Secretary Clinton. I think we saw the beginning of that. I think we'll see more of that

in the next several weeks. But he needs to do that without getting into a protracted battle of the long shots in order to have a real chance of winning this nomination.

KAYE: All right. MJ Lee, Jeff Zeleny in Baltimore for us. Craig Varoga, Brian Morgenstern, Chris Moody -- the whole gang. Thanks very much to all of you.

VAROGA: Thank you very much.

MORGENSTERN: Thanks for having us.

KAYE: Coming up, the United States released them from Gitmo in exchange for Bowe Bergdahl, now the travel ban on the Taliban 5 is hours away from expiring. What America is trying to do to stop it.

Plus he was once the most powerful man in Congress, now former House Speaker Dennis Hastert accused of lying to the FBI after paying more than $1 million dollars to cover up a secret.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert is under indictment for lying to the FBI. Federal prosecutors say he withdrew huge sums of cash allegedly used as hush money to cover up sexual abuse with one of his former students. This dates back to his early years as a teacher and wrestling coach long before his political career ever started. So far he isn't saying anything.

Here's CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well Randi, first came this indictment from the Justice Department, with the shocking allegations that Dennis Hastert had lied to the FBI about withdrawing money for a cover-up.

[11:15:07] And now we're learning from sources alleged sexual misconduct involving an underage student was the reason behind the hush money.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Federal sources tell CNN Dennis Hastert, the longest-serving Republican U.S. House Speaker, was paying hush money to a student at the Illinois high school where he once taught. More than a million dollars for the former student to keep allegations Hastert had sexually abused him quiet.

Hastert has not commented publicly. But he abruptly resigned from this Washington, D.C. lobbying firm, as well as from a Chicago derivatives firm. The indictment does not discuss sexual abuse. Instead, it focuses on how the 73-year-old former wrestling coach moved the money he allegedly was paying the former student. Prosecutors saying he agreed to pay an unnamed individual quote $3.5 million to cover up his past misconduct. According to court records, the investigation started two years ago when the FBI started investigating mystery transactions made by Hastert, bank withdrawals of more than $950,000. The FBI alleges several of the withdrawals were less than $10,000 so he could evade bank detention. Prosecutors say when the FBI asked Hastert about the pattern of large withdrawals, he said he was keeping the cash for himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: We're told by sources federal authorities were looking at whether bring extortion charges and concluded that was something that they didn't want to pursue. Hastert meantime has not returned our calls for comment. A friend of his though says that he perceives himself as the one being wronged here -- Randi.

KAYE: Pamela brown -- thanks very much. The "L.A. Times" is reporting a top law enforcement official say investigators also spoke to a second man who accused Hastert of similar allegations. "L.A. Times" reporter Tim Phelps spoke to CNN about that second man.

Take a listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM PHELPS, "L.A. TIMES" REPORTER: There were no payments going on between Hastert and the second official we're reporting.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: And this occurred when Hastert was a teacher and a wrestling coach at that high school?

PHELPS: Well, we believe that's the case. We don't have a lot of detail on the second victim. But in general, the charges made clear that it goes back before the time that Hastert was in office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The school where Hastert taught during the alleged sexual abuse said it had no knowledge of these accusations.

Still ahead, a Kansas college student being called a hero after ISIS launches deadly bombing in Saudi Arabia. We'll tell you what he did.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST: As some of you may or may not know, I was born in New York City. But immediately after my birth I was whisked off to what would become my happy home for 17, 18 years. That would be New Jersey.

Now as a long-time resident of New York, I happen to think that New York is the greatest city in the world. But if you're asking me what is the greatest state in the union? The greatest state of all 50 states? It's New Jersey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: I would have to agree with that.

Anyway, checking top stories for you right now. A boat captain in Hawaii has died after getting impaled by a swordfish. Officials say 47-year-old Randy Llanes had jumped into the waters off the Hawaiian coast while holding a spear gun in an attempt too catch the fish. It was during his time in the water that somehow he got punctured by the fish in his torso and died. Police and state conservation officers are investigating.

The Pentagon now confirming the U.S. Army sent a suspected shipment of anthrax to Australia. The Pentagon says the live samples of the potentially dangerous pathogen are believed to have been shipped back in 2008 or 2009. A total of 24 laboratories in 11 states and two foreign countries are now believed to have received suspect samples. The Defense Department is conducting a thorough review of its anthrax protocols. The CDC is also investigating, but officials say they do not expect any risk to the public.

U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter wants China to quit its territorial expansion into the South China Sea. This comes one week after a U.S. surveillance plane carrying a CNN crew swooped over these islands, triggering warnings from the Chinese navy to back off. U.S. Officials say they're concerned about China's militarization of some of the islands and are considering flying surveillance missions closer than it has before over these islands.

This morning, a Wichita State University student is being remembered as a wonderful friend and a true hero. 22-year-old Abdul Jalil Al Arbash sacrificed his own life to save hundreds of others when he stopped a suicide bomber from entering a crowded mosque in Saudi Arabia. He and three others were killed outside the mosque when the bomber detonated his explosives. ISIS has claimed responsibility for that attack.

CNN's Nick Valencia is covering the story for us. He joins me now.

He was back in Saudi Arabia to be married?

[11:25:02] NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Incredibly sad. He was there visiting the country with the intention of getting married. But before he did that, he was volunteering as a security guard outside of a Shia mosque.

There was recently another attack on a separate Shia mosque which is why tensions were very high. That 22-year-old Abdul Jalil Al Arbash was said to have stopped the suicide bomber. They noticed this alleged suspect when he showed up at the mosque dressed as a female.

According to reports women were told to stay home because of this heightened security risk. Abdul Jalil is said to have chased off the attacker who ended up detonating that device and killing himself as well as three others.

Now, at a memorial service held yesterday, Abdul Jalil's family spoke about the character of this young man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NAIM BALLOUT, AHLUL BAYT ISLAMIC ASSOCIATION: His move in Saudi Arabia was bravery. Because of the bravery and heroism, he saved a lot of people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's like, a brother or more than a brother, for everybody. If you can see right now, you're going to see a smile on his face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Now Saudi Arabia's government has not officially identified Abdul Jalil as the man who stopped that suicide bomber. But they did release a statement talking about the details of what happened during Friday afternoon's incident saying "Security men suspected a car and was heading to the car parking adjacent to the mosque. When the security men approached the car, it exploded, killing four people, where one of them is believed to be the driver and spreading fire to a number of cars." Abdul Jalil's family, Randi, says that he saved hundreds of lives.

KAYE: What a heroic move by him. Wichita State University, they've issued a response as well?

VALENCIA: That's right. They're also mourning the loss of this young man. They say he had an incredible character, was an incredibly good student as well. Saying quote, "Wichita State University community is saddened by the tragic death of one of our students. Our condolences go out to Abdul Jalil's family, friends and colleagues in this time of loss." And of course his bride to be -- Randi.

KAYE: Very, very sad story.

Nick Valencia, thank you very much.

VALENCIA: You bet.

KAYE: Appreciate that.

They were held in Gitmo for years then released in exchange for Bowe Bergdahl. But soon the Taliban Five could be allowed to travel freely.

Next, the efforts to stop that from happening.

Plus two former members of the FBI joint terrorism task force talk about the danger that these men pose.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:31:00] KAYE: Good morning, everyone. Thanks so much for joining me. I'm Randi Kaye in for Fredricka Whitfield today.

Diplomatic sources tell CNN that U.S. and Qatari officials are having one final meeting today about what to do with the men known as the Taliban Five. They are the five terrorists, former detainees at Guantanamo Bay, who were exchanged for the freedom of former American, POW, Bowe Bergdahl.

Now after their release, they were sent to Qatar and banned for traveling for one year, but that ban actually expires on Monday. The source says Qatar is willing to extend the agreement under the same terms, but the U.S. apparently wants more restrictions on their movements.

CNN global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott, has a look now at what could be done.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, under the agreement the five Taliban detainees have been monitored by the Qatari government for one year and banned from traveling outside the country.

Now, the State Department is leading separate negotiations with both the governments of Qatar and Afghanistan about what happens next. U.S. officials say there are a few options in play.

Now the U.S. prefers they stay in Qatar where they will be monitored. The five have brought their families there and now total amounts 70 among them. The other options could see the five returning to Afghanistan either be released or monitored by the Afghan government.

Now, the Qatari say they will not expand the restrictions on the five, nor will they send them home to Afghanistan, if they don't want to leave Qatar. So, none of these are great options. These are five pretty high-ranking Taliban officials.

At least one has tried to communicate with Taliban militants back home since arriving in Qatar raising questions about whether the lives of Afghans, Americans, and U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan would be at risk.

Republican lawmakers were upset with a deal in the first place and now they are calling on the administration to make sure the five are not set free. Elise Labott, CNN, Washington.

KAYE: All right, for more on how we keep track of the Taliban, let's bring in former Navy SEAL and former member of the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force, Jonathan Gilliam. Plus Steven Rogers, he is also a former member of the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force and a retired police detective as well.

Jonathan, let me start with you on this one. Is there really a way to track these prisoners once the travel ban is lifted?

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER NAVY SEAL: I would have to say no. I mean, there are ways through sources that we can track these individuals. But the reality is these five guys should have never been released especially for Bowe Bergdahl.

I mean, take the politics out of this. I know the reporter there was just talking about the Republicans being angry about stuff. There are people that are operators, that are in the intel community that are furious over these individuals.

I mean, Al-Baghdadi, who is the head of ISIS went through a similar incarceration over in Iraq and then got out and became the head of ISIS. So that's just one individual and look at what's that caused.

Now we have five high-level guys who could have potentially stayed in jail for the rest of their lives because of the parts this they played in this war. And now they're going back over to the battlefield.

KAYE: And also, Steven, very concerning, earlier this year, the director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, released a report saying that one of the prisoner that actually contacted the Taliban since being released from Gitmo. Is there any way to tell or track if these men are plotting revenge of some sort?

STEVEN ROGERS, FORMER MEMBER, FBI JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, Jonathan is right. It's going to be near impossible. Let me add this, Randi, that in your report, you stated that or the reporter stated that they will be a danger to our troops in Afghanistan. But you want to know something?

They're going to be a very clear and present danger to every citizen of this country. These are operational commanders, in my estimation, they're going to want to get even with us and they're going to plot to do something catastrophic here. What a national security blunder this was.

KAYE: And Jonathan, how concerned are you, I mean, with all the talk that they may go to Afghanistan, does it tell you that they have future plans?

GILLIAM: Well, you have to realize, Randi, these are individuals that are a part of an ideology. They're not just going to give up that ideology. They did time in a prison, they're out, they're going to go straight back in that fight.

[11:35:05] Let me say this one thing -- we, you know we watched Germans that were killed, were executed for doing less to Jewish detainees than these individuals are have done to people over in Afghanistan and Iraq. I mean, these people are guilty of war crimes, not just leading different groups. These are actually war-time criminals.

KAYE: And as you said, taking the politics out of it, still a concern. When it comes to tracking the terrorists here in America, the director of the FBI says that the agency is facing an extraordinarily difficult challenge keeping up with the growing number of potential terror suspects here in the United States. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: But I can't stand here with any high confidence when I confront a world that's increasingly dark to me and tell you that I've got it all covered.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KAYE: So the FBI is now asking for help from local police departments in New York. The police department wants to add an additional 450 officers to its counterterrorism unit. The big question here is, of course, how safe is the U.S. from a terror attack?

Steven, I mean, what do you think, you touched on it there a moment ago that you think that they're going to be targeting us in the U.S., but how nervous should we be or do you think that maybe we have it under control?

ROGERS: The FBI has done an extraordinary job so far. I can tell you when I was on the National Joint Terrorism Task Force in 2002, there was a complete lack of intelligence-sharing. There is some now.

Let me add that local law enforcement officers have to be trained in the -- in the gathering and analysis of intelligence. There's where we're going to get the information, on the streets of this country.

And until the Department of Homeland Security begins to start funding police departments for what is a war -- not a criminal act, a war, we're going to find ourselves in serious trouble.

KAYE: And Jonathan, what do you think? I mean, what should we take from the fact that the FBI is overwhelmed, which certainly sounds concerning and needs assistance from now local police departments?

GILLIAM: Well, I think the word overwhelmed. We need to take that word out because the reality is the FBI is not an entity that does policing on the ground. We don't have officers that go on patrol in neighborhoods, that's what police do.

I think what you're seeing is not an overwhelming of the FBI. You're seeing a lack of an overall strategic plan to fight this war completely. Now that incorporates domestic, defense, as well as offensive movements by local law enforcements and coordinated federal agencies but also overseas.

We don't see an overall strategic plan and that is where things start to break down. We have a national academy that a lot of police officers come to. In Quantico, they train side by side with us when we're in the FBI Academy a lot of the times.

That needs to be utilized further so guys can go back out, men and women that go to this can go back out and have a more standardized relationship with the bureau.

KAYE: Steven it is sort of scary that the FBI says that they can't keep up at least with all the possible terror suspects. I mean, should we believe that there are in that many out there at this point?

ROGERS: Well, I've said all along, they're here and it's a matter of now setting up operations, I'm concerned about the Patriot Act, for example, being tinkered with. I'm concerned about some of the things we've done to at least be very proactive and prevent terrorist attacks. But intelligence information sharing has always been from the top down. Now it has to come from the top up meaning from the streets to our national law enforcement agencies.

KAYE: Jonathan, what about the money? I mean, do we really have the money for the hiring and the training of these officers to help the FBI?

GILLIAM: Well, I'll tell you, Randi, again, we need to have a shift in this country to stop thinking that we have to spend, spend, spend in order to stop terrorism or to stop this, these operatives inside the country. You know look at, look at a big retail store. They can put 100 cameras in there.

They hire one guy that's not that well trained. It's not going to do that good, spending the money. You need to start taking the officers already on the ground and training them effectively. Not just smoke and mirrors.

But effectively how to look, where to look, when to look and start thinking like somebody who might be doing an attack so they can look in that direction and then try to spot these people.

And also sources, the more sources we have on the ground here, the more relationships we have with mosques, which is not a part of this conversation.

And should be, the Muslim community themselves, they're going to do far more than the FBI and the local law enforcement if they get their act together and start working in conjunction with all of these entities.

KAYE: Steven, do you have any idea how many people, how many bodies it is takes to watch a suspect 24/7? And do you think that we do have the money and the manpower to do that?

ROGERS: Well, I have to agree with Jonathan on this. It isn't exactly money and manpower. It's training officers. Look, one motor vehicle stop can lead to the prevention of a terrorist attack. You let those officers out there on the street know what to look for. How to look for suspects.

You know, what to do with that information is very important. You'll be able to stop a terrorist attack. So it isn't money. It's manpower and it's training.

[11:40:05] KAYE: Jonathan Gilliam, Steven Rogers, great discussion. Thank you both very much.

Still ahead, death on Hudson, a woman accused of killing her fiance by sabotaging his kayak. But the defense says this was not murder. Their side of the story, coming your way, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: An accidental drowning on the Hudson River or a cold-blooded killing? That is the question at the center of a murder case in New York State. The woman accused of murdering her fiance by sabotaging his kayak pled not guilty on Friday.

The attorney for Angelika Graswald said autopsy results will show her fiance died from drowning and hypothermia after drinking. But prosecutors tell a very different story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE (voice-over): An evening kayak trip for a couple that appeared very much in love. But before it was over, Angelika Graswald's fiance, 46-year-old Vincent Viafore, had disappeared, presumed dead.

(on camera): Police say the couple was kayaking here on the Hudson River between Thumb Point and Benderman's Island. Investigators say around 7:40 that evening, Graswald called 911 from the river to report that her fiance's kayak had capsized in the choppy water.

She told police she couldn't find him. It was April after an especially cold winter so the water was only about 40 degrees. Rescue crews searched the river for Viafore. No luck.

[11:45:05] Graswald, who is a U.S. permanent resident, but a Latvian citizen, described the scene to a reporter.

ANGELIKA GRASWALD, SUSPECT IN FIANCE'S DISAPPEARANCE: I saw him struggling a little bit. He was trying to figure out how to paddle the waves, because they were, again, crazy, and then I just saw him flip.

KAYE: But the police don't believe that story. Graswald is charged with second-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. The indictment alleges that as Viafore reached for his paddle to save his own life, Graswald pulled it away. Richard Portale is Angelika Graswald's defense lawyer.

(on camera): Did your client try to save her fiance that night on river?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think she did, but even if she could have gotten to him, she didn't have the physical ability to save him.

KAYE (voice-over): Prosecutors also suggest Graswald may have actually set him up to drown by tampering with his kayak's plug so the boat would fill with water.

(on camera): So, your client didn't remove the plug from the victim's kayak?

RICHARD PORTALE, ANGELIKA GRASWALD'S ATTORNEY: She did not. Vincent left in his kayak on April 19th without the plug, knowingly, as he had done several times in the past.

KAYE (voice-over): In the days following the tragedy, Graswald posted this video of herself on Facebook doing a cartwheel along with smiling selfies, all of it raising eyebrows. She even showed up on stage at a local pub singing "Hotel California."

A friend of the couple's described her performance as strange. Mike Colvin is Angelika Graswald's ex-boyfriend.

(on camera): Does she have a temper?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The temper would come out on occasion. You know, as I've told a lot of people there was no inclination that she was ever capable of anything remotely like this.

KAYE: When they broke up in 2010, Colvin says Graswald made a desperate and dangerous attempt to take the couple's cat.

MIKE COLVIN, ANGELIKA GRASWALD'S EX-BOYFRIEND: She threatened to break into the house if I didn't give her the cat. Finally, I relented. I did give her the cat, and I literally got an alarm installed in my house the next day.

KAYE: Angelika Graswald later moved into this townhouse with Vincent Viafore. Why, if she did do this, would she want to harm her fiance? The prosecutor says Graswald stood to inherit $250,000 from life insurance policies and talked about what she could do with the money after his death.

(on camera): Was she aware of those insurance policies?

PORTALE: I'm not aware that she was.

KAYE (voice-over): What about her diary? Could that hold clues to a motive? Graswald told a reporter that she complained in her diary about her fiance wanting a sexual threesome.

PORTALE: What partner hasn't requested a threesome? This is not craziness, right? This is not anything that is out of the ordinary, but it's not a motive for murder.

KAYE: Motive or not, investigators now have a body.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Paul Callan joining me now to discuss this. Paul, there is one witness to what happened here, and of course, it is the defendant. How does the state prove that she tried to kill her fiance?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, Randi, it makes for an extremely difficult case and because of that point exactly. Remember, they're claiming that there was something, the boat was tampered with, but noticed there's no physical damage to the boat. It's just that the plug was removed.

Now, the defense will say that probably was an accident or caused by, you know, the victim himself. So, this is a very, very difficult case. Now, they claim they have a motive, of course, because of the life insurance policy and inappropriate behavior after the killing. But bear in mind, I think it's a very, very difficult case. And interestingly, to hedge their bets, they have charged it as an intentional murder, but they also have charged it as a manslaughter, saying that it could be a reckless or an accidental action that rose to the level of manslaughter.

KAYE: What about her actions, though, what you touched on there, after her fiance's death? I mean, she posted these smiling selfies on Facebook. She posted a video of her doing that cartwheel. We've certainly seen other cases where bizarre behavior has been used against suspects before. I mean, how would that play out in court?

CALLAN: First of all, you'd have to get it into evidence and that's an uphill battle, I think, to get that into evidence, because what a lot of people will say is that, you know, different people react differently, and that doesn't mean she killed somebody. I'm thinking, by the way, of the Amanda Knox case. You remember that, Randi.

KAYE: Absolutely.

CALLAN: The claim was that she was doing cartwheels while in police custody and that that was inappropriate behavior in Italy. And of course, Americans were appalled when she was convicted in part on that evidence.

So, I think as a, you know, common sense says that's not the way you act when your fiance has been killed or died accidentally in a river, but I don't know if a judge will let it into evidence.

KAYE: And what about the information from her ex-boyfriend, who we talked to there in that piece as well? I mean, he said that, you know, she did have a temper. He never suspected she could do something like this.

[11:50:05] But can that information, can his testimony be used at trial, if it goes that far?

CALLAN: Probably not. Unless the only way that would come in at trial would be if her lawyer called character witnesses, to say she has a peaceful disposition and doesn't have a temper, then rebut that with prior boyfriend.

If they don't open that door, it won't get into evidence, and I'm betting defense attorneys, will play this close to the vest because they know the prosecution's got an uphill battle.

They probably won't put her on the witness stand, unless there's other information that we don't know about at this point, and I'm betting there is other information we don't know about.

KAYE: And just quickly her statements, state police have said that she made a lot of conflicting statements early on to them. Would that be allowed to be used in court?

CALLAN: Yes, that will definitely be used in court, and if those conflicting statements don't line up with the actual facts of the case, that can be very, very damning, so then you have a $250,000 life insurance policy, conflicting statements and you start to build a case, depending on what those statements are.

KAYE: All right. Paul Callan, thank you very much for your insight. Appreciate it.

CALLAN: Thank you, Randi.

KAYE: Coming up, it's been ten years to the day since Natalee Holloway disappeared on the island of Aruba. Now one man telling CNN in an exclusive interview that he was last person to see the teenager alive. Martin Savidge is in Aruba -- Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Randi, if this person is to be believed, he is going to turn this case right on its ear. We'll have the interview, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Ten years ago today, high school student, Natalee Holloway disappeared on the island of Aruba. You'll remember Holloway was on a graduation trip with classmates. She disappeared after a night out a local club.

CNN's Martin Savidge joins us from Aruba. Martin, you spoke exclusively to a witness who ten years later still claims that he saw what happened.

SAVIDGE: Right. And what he says could change everything. We are standing on the very spot where the common belief by investigators is that, something happened to Natalee Holloway, and her body ended up in the ocean. This new witness says, no, for ten years, everybody's had it wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Jurrien de Jong says he's something the Natalee Holloway case has never had, an eyewitness.

(on camera): You were the last person to see Natalee Holloway alive?

JURRIEN DE JONG, CLAIMS HE WITNESSED HOLLOWAY'S MURDER: Yes.

SAVIDGE: So where have you been because it's been ten years.

(voice-over): Actually, De Jong isn't new. He's been speaking out for years. In 2008, he even called Natalee's father and said.

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S FATHER: She's on land and I know where her body is hidden. And my initial thought was this is another crazy.

SAVIDGE: He's gone to the police numerous times even given a sworn statement.

(on camera): What happened? DE JONG: Nothing.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Here's his version. On the night Natalee Holloway vanished De Jong says he was doing something illegal at a construction site. He won't say what. But around 2:00 a.m., he says he sees a young man, who later he identifies as Joran Vander Sloot chasing a young woman into the site.

DE JONG: I thought first a playful way like I'm going to get you.

SAVIDGE: He says the couple disappeared into a small section of construction.

DE JONG: After 5 minutes he came out with her in his arms.

SAVIDGE: And it was what he saw the man do that told De Jong the woman was dead.

DE JONG: He slammed her and then you don't start hiding this person in the crawl space.

SAVIDGE: Joran Vander Sloot is serving 28 years in prison for the murder of a young woman in Peru. He's never been charged in the Natalee Holloway case. Now De Jong's testimony seems to practically solve the mystery of what happened to Natalee and nearly ten years after she disappeared authorities have finally got around to investigating it.

ERIC OLTHOF, ARUBA PROSECUTOR: I don't know if he's lying. I can only say that his statement can't be true.

SAVIDGE: That construction site in 2005 is now a 12-story vacation property owned by Marriott and the prosecutor says Marriott informed him at the time Natalee vanished there was no construction.

OLTHOF: Because when there's no construction, Natalee Holloway can't be buried in the crawl space under the foundation.

SAVIDGE: That certainly seems true, but Dave Holloway believes Marriott may be possibly wrong about those construction dates. Holloway led a number of searches for his daughter on Aruba, and he remembers the place.

HOLLOWAY: I was there on June 1st and there was definitely construction in that area, June 1st, 2005.

SAVIDGE: And this Google Earth view from June 2005, a short time after Natalee vanished, appears to show a construction site and the fuzzy shapes of structures.

We asked Marriott for clarification, but in a statement the company made no mention of the building saying only, "as we have done all along, we cooperate fully with authorities whenever they are conducting an official investigation."

HOLLOWAY: What he's describing in his story matches what's physically there at the time. So I'm thinking, man, this could be something. It's something that really needs to be looked at closely.

SAVIDGE: Holloway wants a search, but authorities say that's not going to happen.

OLTHOF: It's useless to search there with a cadaver dog or drilling or whatever. One thing will be sure, she's not lying there. She can't be lying there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Dave Holloway says, if people have this idea that it would require demolishing the hotel or doing major structural damage to investigators he says, no, that's not true. Drill a couple of holes in the foundation, get a cadaver dog on the island, get it past those holes and you'd have an answer quickly. Very simple he says but as you heard, Randi, the prosecutor says not going to happen.

KAYE: Fascinating case. Martin Savidge for us, thank you very much, Marti. We have much more just ahead in the NEWSROOM and it all starts right now.