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Former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley Joins 2016 Race; Senate Back in Session Tomorrow; A Former Colonel with the Counterterror Police Has Defected to ISIS; President Obama Declares Major Disaster for Texas; Possible New Lead in the Natalee Holloway Case. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 30, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:17] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: 3:00 Eastern, I'm Poppy Harlow joining you live from New York.

Ahead this hour, the Democratic field for president just got larger. Former Maryland governor Marlin O'Malley makes his bid official his complicated history with rival Hillary Clinton, we'll talk about that and a lot more.

Also, top of mind, the clock is ticking. Come midnight tomorrow the United States may find itself with fewer tools when it comes to fighting terrorism. Key parts of the patriot act are set to expire unless senators can come to an agreement on Sunday. I will talk live with one of those senators pushing for what he calls a compromise in just a moment.

But we begin with the race for the White House. Eight years ago Martin O'Malley was endorsing, stumping for Hillary Clinton when she was running for president. Today, he is challenging her for that job saying this to supporters in Baltimore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Recently the CEO of Goldman Sachs let his employees know that he'd be just fine with either Bush or Clinton. I bet he would. Well, I've got news for the bullies of Wall Street. The presidency is not a crown to be passed back and forth by you between two royal families. It is a sacred trust to be earned from the American people, an exercise on behalf of the people of these United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN's senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny joins me now from Baltimore where the former Maryland governor launched his presidential bid this morning.

What is your take on how he approached this, given his long history, Jeff, with the Clintons? We're talking about someone who was even raised -- the Clintons have raised money for throughout his career. What do you think? JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: No question, Poppy.

I mean there is a relationship between them, but every democrat in the country has a relationship with the Clintons, so Martin O'Malley is certainly not alone in that. But it is a little awkward, no question about it. And we have heard him talk right there and one of the biggest applauses of his announcement speech by talking about Hillary Clinton in the same sentence as Jeb Bush.

So it is going to be awkward going forward, but Martin O'Malley believes that it is time for a new generation of leadership. In his slogans, in his signs that were hanging up throughout this rally, it says new leadership. Of course that is a not-so-subtle implication that Hillary Clinton is old leadership. So we'll see how voters and Democrats accept this. But the real question is how aggressively he goes after her yet. We're not quite sure about that.

HARLOW: He certainly did pretty aggressively there in his first remarks as a candidate.

Let me ask you this. When you look at his record, not only as the governor of Maryland but as the former mayor of Baltimore, he touted a 42 percent decline in crime during his seven years as mayor in Baltimore. I'm just wondering if you think he can really claim any credit in Baltimore given what we've seen erupt on the streets there in the past few months?

ZELENY: Well, his record has mayor of Baltimore certainly is going to be inspected once again. For the last year or so, he's been talking about that record and how it's one of his attributes. The reality is it shows that the economy in the U.S. in major urban areas, it's a complicating factor.

But Poppy, he embraced it today. He did not run away from his record. And he said it's one of the reasons that politicians need to improve the economy. So his zero tolerance policy, was that a good idea? That is going to be debated. But I was actually a little surprised on how much he embraced that record as mayor here today.

HARLOW: I think he had to bring it up, right? It would have been the elephant in the room if you don't talk about what exploded on the streets of Baltimore and he certainly did. At the same time, it's stunning. Look at these numbers, right, the most recent Quinnipiac polling number, when you look at the polling, shows Hillary Clinton with a huge lead among democratic voters. 57 percent compared to a one percent for Martin O'Malley. What is the strategy if you're sitting in Martin O'Malley's seat right now? How do you get that support up? How do you get that name recognition up?

ZELENY: Poppy, in one respect it's a plan b strategy. If something would happen to Secretary Clinton, if she would get sick for some reason or something would come up that would sort of hurt her candidacy, he could be waiting in the wings. But the O'Malley advisers and he has told me himself, they believe that there is an appetite for an alternative to her, at least to drive the debate, at least to raise some other issues here. So there is no doubt he has an uphill climb here. But a freshman senator named Barack Obama some eight years ago had an uphill climb as well so things like that give governor O'Malley hope.

[15:04:54] HARLOW: It is not over until it is over, right? And it has certainly began (INAUDIBLE).

Let's show our viewers this. We do have the tweet from Hillary Clinton sort of welcoming O'Malley to the race saying welcome to the race, Governor O'Malley. Looking forward to discussing strong families and communities. It's certainly going to be interesting to watch.

We've got three official democratic candidates now, O'Malley, Clinton and Bernie Sanders.

Thanks, Jeff, appreciate it.

ZELENY: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: All right, we've got used to Congress waiting until the last minute to get things done. This time they are doing it, as you well know, with the patriot act. Yesterday, President Obama said the stakes are too high to wait any longer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't want us to be in a situation in which for a certain period of time those authorities go away and suddenly we're dark and heaven forbid, we've got a problem where we could have prevented a terrorist attack or apprehended someone who was engaged in dangerous activity but we didn't do so simply because of inaction in the Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Well, the Senate is going to be back in session tomorrow. They're returning to Washington in the afternoon with only a few hours left to renew portions of the patriot act before those segments expire at midnight.

Senator Rand Paul, a Republican, who is also running for president, tweeted this just a short time ago. There has to be another way, we must find it together, so tomorrow I will force the expiration of the NSA illegal spy program.

Now, if the provisions expire, President Obama, attorney general Loretta Lynch and some Republicans like Senator John McCain say that Americans will be vulnerable to new terror attacks. But critics say it's time to stop violating Americans' privacy in the name of security.

Senator Steve Daines of Montana vast what he calls a compromised, it is known as the USA freedom act. Here's how he described his concerns about the how the law stands currently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DAVE DAINES (R), MONTANA: I know firsthand the power that big data holds. I also know the great risks that arise when this power is abused. There is a clear and a direct threat to American civil liberties that comes from the mass collection of our personal information and our phone records.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That was about a week ago and the senator joins me now live in Washington. Thank you for being here, sir, I appreciate it.

DAINES: Glad to be here, Poppy.

HARLOW: As you just said, you know there's a lot of power in data and you know there's a lot of risk when that power is abused. Explain for our viewers how the USA freedom act ensures that the power is not abused, because Rand Paul and others do not think that it's the answer.

DAINES: Right. Well, prior to serving in Congress, I spent 28 years in the private sector. In fact, the last 12 years working for a cloud computing company. I've seen firsthand the power of metadata. The USA freedom act ends the bulk collection of metadata. It ends the NSA collecting millions of phone records of innocent American people. And so, first of all, it's important we protect national security that we keep the homeland safe from terror attack, but we also must protect the personal liberties and freedoms of American people. And the USA freedom act I think strikes that right balance. And we were just three votes away from passing it a week ago.

HARLOW: Yes. And Rand Paul clearly saying today he's not going to help you get that through. We'll see if others do. Here's what it doesn't end, though, it doesn't end the phone companies and internet companies gathering that data. It can't then just stream directly to the NSA. You have to go to a court to get approval to access that data. Some people say the companies shouldn't be collecting it either.

DAINES: Well, what's important there, though, is it ensures that we comply with the fourth amendment, and that is due process. When there's a need to get records on a terrorist, on a criminal, there's a process to go through with judges to ensure we get that information to either prevent an attack or prosecute a terrorist or a criminal. And that's the balance we want to strike here. We want to allow our law enforcement the ability to get the information they need but end the bulk collection of data on innocent American people.

HARLOW: You are close to Senator Rand Paul, Republican presidential candidate now. Today he issued this statement as I just read saying he's going to force the expiration of this program. Do you believe that he is putting the nation at risk by doing so?

DAINES: Well, I think it's important that we allow the Senate to debate this important act. Let the senators come to the floor. Let us debate amendments. There's move forward here, put the USA freedom act on the floor of the Senate and have an open debate.

HARLOW: If he won't support it, sir, do you believe he's putting the nation at risk? Because if you can't get that through, this expires, so you have nothing.

DAINES: Yes. Well, the Senate needed to have acted a week ago. A week ago today, we were three votes short and fighting hard on the Senate floor. It failed by three votes to move forward. We would not be in this position today. But going forward now, we must put the USA freedom act on the floor. It passed overwhelmingly in the house. A second circuit court in New York ruled it is illegal. So it's time for the Senate to act. We'll have the bill on the floor tomorrow and move forward as quickly to get it passed.

[15:10:06] HARLOW: Go ahead and finish, sir.

DAINES: Well, to get it passed and ensure again, I think the USA freedom act strikes that right balance, protecting the homeland from terror attacks while at the same time protecting the personal freedom and liberty of the American people.

HARLOW: One of the things that a lot of us find interesting is the fact that, you know, we did hear from the president about it yesterday. Loretta lynch did one interview about it last week with CBS. But we haven't really seen sort of a huge rush to the media from lawmakers on either side other than we've heard a lot from Rand Paul about this. Do you think perhaps the president, his administration, maybe some Republicans, John McCain and others, should have been out even more this week?

DAINES: Well, I'm not speaking about that today. I think it's very important that we get the additional three votes that we need. I think we'll get it passed on Sunday night. Now, by the rules of the Senate, with objections and so forth, it may -- the patriot account may very well expire Sunday night. But we've got to start moving forward here. We could have done this a week ago. And this is the nature of Washington, D.C., as always managing by crisis, which is very unfortunate. But the next step is to put the USA freedom act on the floor of the Senate tomorrow night. Let's pass it and start the debate and then we should get the vote through by the middle or end of this coming week.

HARLOW: It sounds like you do think you have the votes, though?

DAINES: You know, I think we'll have the votes. If it is put pack on the floor of the Senate tomorrow night, I think we'll have the votes to proceed.

HARLOW: We'll be watching. Senator Steve Daines, thank you very much.

DAINES: Thank you.

HARLOW: Later this hour, why should you care if these provisions expire? What do they mean to you personally? We are going to talk about an internet security expert who knows a lot about this, David Kennedy, coming up.

Still ahead, the man seen in this video is an ISIS commander, an ISIS commander. So how is it that he honed his skills right here in America? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:21] HARLOW: Well, America's point man on countering ISIS is pledging more support to Iraq. General John Allen met with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad today after a week of losses in Anbar province that he calls frustrating. He offered to send 2,000 anti-tank grenade launchers in addition to continuing the coalition air strikes. His visit follows a bombshell in Washington. Get this, a man who spent years in this country training to fight terrorists has now defected to ISIS. Even more frightening, he's calling for a jihad on American soil.

Our Brian Todd has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've got new information about an ISIS fighter named Gulmurod Khalimov. He's a former colonel with the counterterror police of (INAUDIBLE). We have learned that this man was trusted enough to be allowed inside the United States for extensive counterterror training.

Donned in ISIS black, he confidently carries a long sniper rifle, a bond of ammunition. He picks off a tomato to show his skill. This is an ISIS video, and CNN has just learned this man trained on American soil. The fighter says he's Gulmurod Khalimov a former commander in a special police counterterror unit in Tajikistan, a key U.S. ally.

GULMUROD KHALIMOV, ISIS FIGHTER (through translator): From 2003 to 2008 I received specialized training in America on the military base of Blackwater.

TODD: Blackwater, a controversial U.S. contracting company which sent private security personnel to Iraq and trained other countries' fighters at this compound in North Carolina. Contacted by CNN, academy, the company that purchased the training facility, was unable to confirm that he was there. The state department tells CNN Khalimov participated in five counterterrorism courses in the U.S. in Tajikistan between 2003 and last year. We spoke with former army sniper Paul Shari about what he might have learned.

What skills that he would have learned do you think might hurt allied forces on the battlefield?

PAUL SHARI, FORMER ARMY SNIPER: So the types of training that he is likely to perceive would have been basic tactics in maneuvers, the ability to moves through a building, moves through an area in a tactical way, basic marksmanship.

TODD: Shari says U.S. contractors wouldn't have trained Khalimov to be a killing machine like Rambo. But if Khalimov was a top commander in Tajikistan's counter terror forces, there is another worry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The real problem is he knows how to plan counterterrorism operations. So he knows how the people who protect a high-value target will be thinking. He knows how the people who protect an embassy would be thinking. And so that puts him in a position, as we would say the military, to red team not to think very intelligently out of it, how to disrupt this plans. That's a dangerous capability.

TODD: Another ominous signal, Khalimov's threat against what he called American pigs.

KHALIMOV (through translator): God willing, we will come to your cities, to your homes, and we will kill you.

TODD: The state department says all appropriate vetting was done for Khalimov before he came to the United States. Tajik officials have so far not commented on this man or the video. Khalimov has a skill, a very dangerous one, that goes beyond what he can do with a sniper rifle. In the video he speaks Russian. Analysts say that's a marketing decision by ISIS to use him as a tool to recruit other fighters from Central Asia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Wow, it is stunning. Great reporting there from our Brian Todd.

Just ahead we'll talk more about this. Are there more fighters trained here in America like this and then taking all of that knowledge over to join ISIS? We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:35] HARLOW: Welcome back. Building on a story we just aired, a commander who learned extensive counterterror training tactics right here in the United States has joined ISIS and is calling for jihad on U.S. soil.

Let's talk more about it with CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier.

Thanks for being here. I appreciate it. It is stunning because this commander spent years training, strategizing with U.S. forces. Now he's threatening to kill Americans. How damaging is this? How seriously do you take this threat?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I've got to say it's a big blow in terms of PR and ISIS knows it. That's why they put him out there. But this is also what U.S. officials have been warning against when they say here's exactly why we're moving slowly to build a force to fight ISIS. This is how hard it is to vet someone and their loyalty before you bring them into the camp and train them with some of these key skills. You can't get inside someone's head and heart and mind. You can give them a polygraph, but polygraphs can be beaten and people can also change their minds. Who knows if that's what happened with this guy. He might have been loyal in the beginning, but something he saw overseas or didn't see in terms of U.S. participation changed his mind and he went to the other side. HARLOW: And he actually said that what he saw here among members of

the U.S. military, he said that they were out to kill Muslims and out against Islam and that that is what turned him, what he saw while he was training here. It sounds like you're saying no more vetting could have been done. So does that call this kind of training entirely into question?

DOZIER: You know, it does. And yet this kind of training has risks and everyone involved with it knows that. Now did this man when he was training in the states possibly with some of the veterans who felt very bitter about what they saw overseas, did he see certain strains of anti-Muslim sentiment? He probably did, and so the people training these would be loyalists to the anti-ISIS effort have to think about that. They are ambassadors who are then sending these people back ambassadors for the American military and the American public.

HARLOW: Is there any way to know if someone like this, who defects after this U.S. training and strategizing, is it anomaly or there are more like them out there? I mean, is there -- what does your expertise tell you?

[15:25:05] DOZIER: Well, you can bet that right now what U.S. intelligence is doing is going back over every single person who's ever had training as best they can and trying to determine where are they now. But there is really no way to know in that until someone like this chooses to make them self-public, the ISIS battlefield is getting thousands of new recruits every month, and it's very hard to track. That's part of the problem here.

HARLOW: Yes. And as the head o4the FBI has said, they have these open cases in every single U.S. state right now looking at potential ISIS sympathizers and people recruited to go fight with them.

Kimberly Dozier, thank you. Appreciate it.

DOZIER: Thank you.

HARLOW: Coming up, parts of Texas getting more rain after a week of flooding. The state now is declaring a major disaster area by President Obama. We'll take you there live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:46] HARLOW: Every drop of rain that falls in flood-drenched Texas is too much right now. The ground is absolutely saturated. It cannot absorb any more water. President Obama has declared a major disaster for Texas. That means federal aid is on the way, but at least 22 people have already died in Texas as a result of the severe weather there this spring.

Flooded highways left hundreds of drivers stranded yesterday in Dallas with nowhere to go. Dan Simon joins me now from highlands, Texas, that is near Houston.

You are standing in it. It was absolutely pouring yesterday. And I guess they could get more rain tonight? [15:30:23] DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The forecast is calling for

more rain tonight. We just don't know how much we have seen varying degrees in terms of what the forecast is calling for. Some have said one to three inches. We've seen as much as five inches. But I have to tell you, you know, we're seeing something that we haven't seen for a while in this part of Texas and that's the sun. And that means that streets like this are seeing the water go back into the river. That's the San Jacinto River just right next to me. That's where the water spilled from and that's sort of telling the story throughout this area.

The water is going back into the rivers and so that means that we're really drying up here in Texas. The question is what's going to happen tonight. Again, the forecast is calling for rain. You talked about it, the grounds are just soaked. So if we see those five inches that may occur, then you might see more flooding. But if you get 1 to 2 inches, then it looks like we'll be OK -- Poppy.

HARLOW: And I know that this federal aid is on the way now because it's been officially sort of declared a disaster area by the president. Do we know what kind of aid is coming and when it might get there?

SIMON: That's a good question. Usually takes some time to sort out, but you have 1400 homes in the Houston area that received some type of damage. And of course you always have a certain amount of people who don't have flood insurance and that's really going to come in handy for some of those folks. It just kind of takes some time.

And I should tell you that one thing that the mayor here in Houston wanted folks to know, is she wanted people to call 311, the nonemergency hotline, to report their damage. Not everybody does that. And based upon the number of people who report their damage, there's a corresponding effect in terms of the federal dollars that come here, so she wanted everybody to know to make sure and call that number and tell, you know, report your damage.

HARLOW: Yes, that's a good point. They need as much help as they can get. What a disaster it's been there for weeks on end now.

Dan, thank you.

Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba ten years ago today, now a new lead in the case. We'll take you live to Aruba with a report next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:28] HARLOW: Well, a possible new lead in a deepening mystery in the Natalee Holloway case. It was ten years ago today that the Alabama teenager disappeared during her high school trip to Aruba. And now, a new witness has come forward claiming that he knows where she is buried because he says he saw what happened to her the night she died.

Our Martin Savidge sat down with him face to face to hear his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jurren de Jong says he's something the Natalee Holloway case has never had, an eyewitness.

You were the last person to see Natalee Holloway alive.

JURREN DE JONG, CLAIMS HE WITNESSED HOLLOWAY'S MURDER: Yes.

SAVIDGE: So where have you been? Because it's been ten years.

Actually, de Jong isn't new. He's been speaking out for years. In 2008, he even called Natalee's father and said --

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S FATHER: She's on land, and I know where her body is hidden. And my initial thought was, oh, this is another crazy.

SAVIDGE: He's gone to the police numerous times, even given a sworn statement. What happened?

DE JONG: Nothing.

SAVIDGE: Here's his version. On the night Natalee Holloway vanished, De Jong says he was doing something illegal at a construction site. He won't say what. But around 2:00 a.m., he says he sees a young man who later he identifies as Joran Van Der Sloot, chasing a young woman into the site.

DE JONG: I thought first in a playful way like I'm going to get you.

SAVIDGE: He says the couple disappeared into a small section of construction.

DE JONG: After five minutes, he came out with her in his arms.

SAVIDGE: And it was what he saw the man do that told De Jong the woman was dead.

DE JONG: He literally slammed her. Then you don't start hiding this person in a crawl space.

SAVIDGE: Joran Van Der Sloot is serving time in prison for the murder of a young woman in Peru. He has never been charged in the Natalee Holloway case. Now De Jong's testimony seems to practically solve the mystery of what happened to Natalee. And nearly ten years after she disappeared, authorities have finally gotten around to investigating it.

ERIC OLTHOF, ARUBAN PROSECUTOR: I don't know whether he's lying. I can only say that his statement can't be true.

SAVIDGE: That construction site in 2005 is now a 12-story vacation property owned by Marriott. And the prosecutor says Marriott informed him at the time Natalee vanished, there was no construction.

OLTHOF: Because when there's no construction, Natalee Holloway can't be buried in the crawl space under the foundation.

SAVIDGE: That certainly seems true. But Dave Holloway believes Marriott may be possibly wrong about those construction dates. Holloway led a number of searches for his daughter on Aruba, and he remembers the place.

HOLLOWAY: I was there on June 1st, and there was definitely construction in that area. June 1st, 2005.

SAVIDGE: And this Google earth view from June 2005, a short time after Natalee vanished, appears to show a construction site and the fuzzy shapes of structures. We asked Marriott for clarification, but in a statement, the company made no mention of the building, saying only, as we have done all along, we cooperate fully with authorities whenever they are conducting an official investigation.

HOLLOWAY: What he's describing in his story matches what's physically there at the time. So I'm thinking, this could be something. It's something that really needs to be looked at closely.

SAVIDGE: Holloway wants a search, but authorities say that's not going to happen.

[15:40:03] OLTHOF: It's useless to search there with a cadaver dog or drilling or whatever. One thing will be sure, she's not lying there. She can't be lying there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Joining me now, CNN's Martin Savidge, who is live in Aruba. Also with us CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes. He previously served as the FBI's national office's lead on this case. Let's talk about it with you guys.

First, Marty, to you. You heard Natalee Holloway's father there seemingly hopeful that he might finally get some answers, finally get closure. How frustrated is he that the authorities will not allow a search?

SAVIDGE: He's very frustrated. He calls me every day and asks, you know, what is the latest, what are you hearing from them? You know, he's learned over the years that you get these leads, many of them don't pan out. But as time has worn on and his daughter of course has not been found, any new lead becomes really important to him. He guards his emotions against it, but you can sense it, that he feels strongly on this and he wants it looked at.

HARLOW: The prosecutors, though, seem skeptical about this man and his tip. And I wonder why?

SAVIDGE: They are. And they don't share, of course, everything they know to us, despite the questions we ask. They primarily point out that information that they received from Marriott that said the construction or what he described as construction didn't exist at that time. We've already seen that there are some who refute that. They just don't buy it. They have looked at the case file. This is a new prosecutor. He's gone through thousands of pages and he says it doesn't add up. Still, it's a lead. I don't see why he has to have proof positive to go forward. But it seems he does.

HARLOW: Well, it's a great question for Tom Fuentes, right? You were at the FBI, sort of overseeing the international offices, trying to work with the Aruban authorities at the time. And you say it was unbelievably frustrating the lack of cooperation you guys got.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, that's right, poppy. Everything seemed to be in slow motion on their part. And they didn't really want to admit that she was murdered. Now, by statutory authority, the FBI has the lead anywhere in the world if a U.S. citizen is murdered, and in this case we didn't know for sure that she was, but the indications were that she probably met with foul play and time is of the essence in a case like that. So we just ran into this difficulty.

I sent the legal attache from our office in Bridgetown, Barbados, went to Aruba. We offered all -- I mean, just extensive resources to assist the Arubans, forensic investigators as well as regular investigators, and they really weren't interested in it in the beginning, didn't want it. Didn't want us to come down there in the beginning. And they thought they could get all the help they needed from their own mothership, the Netherlands. And we just found it so difficult.

Just as a difference, you know, in the U.S. when we have a case like this, not just the FBI, our police agencies as well, you would do everything possible as soon as possible with as many resources as you can to get every camera on that island, every restaurant, every casino, talk to every bartender, every waitress, all the hotel managers, all the concierges, just try to identify where she was. Because she had partied the previous night with Joran and two other friends of his so this was not a new encounter for her to be with him that evening. And when the chaperone said hey, we're going back to the hotel, why don't you come with us, she said, no, I'm with friends, I'm fine. And then that was the last they saw of her.

But, you know, the constant frustration on our part was do more, do it faster. We know you don't have the resources, we do, we'll bring them immediately, and they weren't interested in it. I think it was about six weeks after a meeting at FBI headquarters where they finally allowed us to send somebody down to do a forensic search of Joran's vehicle, which his father had already scrubbed clean by the time we got down there.

HARLOW: So, Marty, what does -- I mean, obviously you've been in touch with Natalee Holloway's father throughout. You covered the story when it broke. What does he say knowing things like what the FBI was allowed and not allowed to do?

SAVIDGE: Well, they have always felt that the Arubans here did not handle the case properly. They have been deeply angered by that, and they believe that that is continuing to this day.

To Tom's point here, we should say just how rudimentary their investigative efforts can be here. You need let's say a cadaver ant to check this theory out, and they don't have any on the island. They would have to be brought in. So they have very basic investigative ability. They need help.

HARLOW: Yes. And her family deserves answers.

Tom Fuentes, Martin Savidge, thank you guys both.

Coming up, the nation's spy program, the one we use to track would be terrorists in this country, the key parts of it may expire tomorrow night if Congress cannot agree and pass what some are calling a compromise. What does it mean for you, next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[15:45:13] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Art has a power to let children discover who they are. Every child needs to have space for them to create.

When I moved to New York City, I noticed that, access to art education was lacking. I decided with need to be the ones to put paintbrushes in the hands of kids. We opened our classes in public libraries that are near the schools that need us most.

You look like you're on a roll. What's going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm drawing a box.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our got is not to create artists but to let kids discover themselves. I use art as an escape. I do look forward to coming here every week. On most occasions I persuade them to let us stay longer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See where you can take it, right?

After we bring art into their lives they become more confident. The changes are quite remarkable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:50:17] JOHN OLIVER, COMEDIAN: There are no easy answers here. We all naturally want perfect prophecy and perfect safety. But those who things cannot co-exist. You can't have a pet falcon and an adorable pet (INAUDIBLE). Either you have to lose one of them, which obviously you don't want to do, or you have to accept some reasonable restrictions on both of them. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That was John Oliver, whose episode on the patriot act has been viewed almost seven million times on You Tube. As we reported, senators are return to Capitol Hill tomorrow afternoon. It gives them just a few hours to renew key portions of the patriot act. That if they don't act, will expire at midnight tomorrow.

One of the biggest hurdles for some senators is the way this law has been applied. Even a congressman who wrote much of the patriot act says it was never supposed to justify the bulk collection of Americans' phone records.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R), WISCONSIN: I was the principle author of the patriot act that was signed by President Bush in 2011. And I also was the principle author of the two reauthorizations in 2006 and in 2011. Let me say that the revelations about section 215 were a shock and that if the bulk collection program was debated by the Congress in each of these three instances, it never would have been approved.

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HARLOW: Let's talk about it with someone who can break down what it really means for you and me and every other citizen of this country, cyber-security expert David Kennedy.

David, thank you for being here.

DAVID KENNEDY, CYBER-SECURITY EXPERT: Thank you for having me. Pleasure.

HARLOW: We hear lawmakers, Democrats and Republicans, talk about section 215, which has basically allowed this bulk collection of data by the NSA. They keep saying over and over, well, they are just collecting metadata. They don't really have anything private about you. Is that the case? Is that what metadata really is?

KENNEDY: No. If you think about what the NSA drives us to do is to gain intelligence and understand what's happening out there so they can hopefully prevent attacks or see what other countries are doing. When you start to bring that program inside, you start to collect a large amount of data around United States citizens, that becomes problematic because you're giving the government a significant amount of data around on what everybody is doing on a day-to-day basis, call logs, you know, who they are calling, track information. That's really scary because you have a large amount of data that the government now holds and starts to get very invasive on United States citizens and their lives.

HARLOW: But are they really hearing, you know, if I make a call to my friend, are they really hearing what I'm saying? I mean, break this down for the average person. Because, you know, the phone company has my records of all of the people that I have called of phone numbers, right? They have that already.

KENNEDY: Absolutely. It comes down to a privacy concern, you know. Do you trust the government with a large amount of information around every United States citizen? You know, if you look at the traditional programs, you know, they were very targeted at going after individual terrorists or people that they identified as being potentially a secret cell or folks that, you know, had been known to be, you know, talking to radicalized, you know, terrorists. So those are programs that we accept as the United States. But when you looking at like what's Snowden released and a lot of the information has been out there, you know, they can collect any information they want to on large percentages of the American population, there's a lot of room where things can happen. Like for example, there were known documented instances within the NSA where they would have, you know, spouses, you know, he is dropping that calls and conversation, you know, as part of a direct violation, but they had the capabilities of doing that. So you know, it comes down the fact of do you want the government holding that amount of data and that large amount of date, to me, the answer is definitely not.

HARLOW: In all of technology that exists today, is there a more effective way to do this? A more effective way to collect data so that someone -- if someone went rogue at the NSA, is listening in as you just talked about her is dropping, is there some other more full proof way to do this but also keep us safe? Because that's the concern we have heard in recent weeks from the president yesterday, from attorney general Loretta Lynch last week.

KENNEDY: I think that's the question we all need to be asking. When I was -- I worked, you know, for the NSA when I was in the military intelligence piece. And you know, our collections were mostly random single intelligence, you know, things flying through the air. But we went into technology so fast so there hasn't been a lot of, you know, checks and balances put into place to really ensure that we're protecting other types of information that would be sensitive to Americans and could be potentially used against the government.

So I think it's going to be a progression and discussion that we have to have in United States to make sure they are protecting our information. They are not targeting individuals that don't deserve to be targeted that are, you know, perfectly law-abiding citizens and really focus on that as a part of a discussion and make sure you build that technology which, you know, I don't feel we have done enough right now.

HARLOW: Do you think there's been enough coordination between the tech companies, phone companies and government on this? It just seems to me that there's sort of this push and pull and divide and perhaps if there was more collaboration, we could get what we need while protecting those liberties.

[15:55:06] KENNEDY: I could fully agree. I mean, I think a lot of the tech companies, you know, there are a lot of them have different motives. Microsoft and Apple have really come towards the privacy route in trying to remove, you know, any type of closer the government would have into their infrastructure. Whereas Google and Facebook have kind of taken opposite approach where, you know, primarily large amount of business comes from personal information. So it's going to require a lot of drive from the tech companies, require a lot of drive from individual citizens as well to really try to take privacy seriously within this type of big ball data collection type programs you have out there.

HARLOW: We'll watch what happens, we'll know by midnight tomorrow night.

David Kennedy, thank you. Good to have your expertise.

KENNEDY: Thank you so much.

HARLOW: Looking ahead to next hour, what to do with the Taliban five, the terrorists freed from Guantanamo in exchange for American soldier Bowe Bergdahl? They were put under a one year travel ban. Well, they have been living in Qatar, but that ban is about to expire unless a new deal can be reached.

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[15:59:20] HARLOW: He has traveled the world but for Anthony Bourdain, there's no place like New Jersey. From fried hotdogs to salt water taffy, get a taste of Bourdain's childhood memories. That is a new episode of "PARTS UNKNOWN" tonight -- sorry, tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. only here on CNN. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is (INAUDIBLE), people land it north and they drive up the Turnpike. They don't turn north and go up into the area. They think that's New Jersey.

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, PARTS UNKNOWN: I think it's beautiful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More horses for cap as any other state.

BOURDAIN: Northern New Jersey is the embroidery capital of the world apparently. I don't know where that is happening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually worked for an embroidery company, I swear to God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will call them right now.

[16:00:02] BOURDAIN: But all the marvelous states about New Jersey, will people come across the bridge and the tunnel in the other direction?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

BOURDAIN: No? OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did not have to think about that.

BOURDAIN: Let's go out to a club in Jersey. No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, but you know what? It's all relative. A 25- year-old guy or girl is going, "We're not going to Jersey." A 60- year-old person's going "I'm getting out of the city and I'm moving to Jersey."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's your answer. There's your answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what? Where does hipness stop? At what age?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hipness is overrated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)