Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

NSA Loses Some Surveillance Powers; Interview with Senator Mike Lee; Houthis Holding Americans Prisoner; Kerry Breaks Leg While Cycling in France; Graham to Launch Bid in S.C. Hometown; Rand Paul Faces Off with Republicans on NSA. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 01, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:01] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: And if you know someone who may have turned in stuff or you have a way to help go to the Web site. Let's see if we can find this lady.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: I may have turned it. I have to check my diary.

CUOMO: You're not old enough to have something. You must have bought it very long?

CAMEROTA: You're right.

All right, that's it for our show. Time now for NEWSROOM with Carol Costello.

Hey, Carol.

CUOMO: Turning in any stuff this weekend?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: You know I'm trying to remember. I'm like Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Maybe you did.

COSTELLO: I think I did.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we went together. I remember that.

COSTELLO: Exactly. I'll split it with you.

CUOMO: I drove.

COSTELLO: Thanks so much. Thanks so much.

NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, the government loses some of its tools to fight terrorists.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MAJORITY LEADER: These aren't theoretical threats.

COSTELLO: Including the power to collect your phone calls in bulk. Senators sparring over the Patriot Act.

MCCONNELL: We shouldn't be disarming unilaterally. As our enemies grow more sophisticated and aggressive.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: They want you to fear and give up your liberty.

COSTELLO: But where is the balance between freedom and safety?

Also, is it getting crowded in here?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you running for president?

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I'm 99 percent sure I will. So stay tuned.

COSTELLO: Lindsey Graham set to jump into the GOP race this morning. So what's his strategy to stand out from the crowd?

Plus --

BRIAN WILLIAMS, FORMER NBC ANCHOR: I made a mistake in recalling the events of 12 years ago.

COSTELLO: Five months after the Brian Williams scandal breaks, new insight into his future. Will he ever be back behind the anchor desk?

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Castillo. Thank you so much for joining me.

For the first time in more than a decade the NSA must stand down on some of its most controversial surveillance tactics aimed at catching terrorists. Overnight Senate lawmakers failed to pass a bill that would have extended three key provisions of the Patriot Act. That means the agency is now forced to stop collecting telephone data on millions of Americans across the country. At least for now.

The White House now warning of serious national security consequences calling the outcome an irresponsible lapse. On Capitol Hill it was a showdown filled with heated debate ahead of that midnight deadline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Even the authors of the Patriot Act say that the Patriot Act in no way gives authority to the president to collect all of your phone records all of the time.

MCCONNELL: We shouldn't be disarming unilaterally as our enemies grow more sophisticated and aggressive. SEN. HARRY REID (D), MINORITY LEADER: We're in the mess we are today

because of the majority leader. Majority leader should have seen this coming. Everyone else did. Even those in his own party.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Isn't this program as critical as it's ever been since its inception? Given the fact that the Middle East is literally on fire and we are losing everywhere?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's bring in our CNN senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta. He has more.

Good morning, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. They went over that surveillance cliff and now the White House is blasting the expiration of these NSA programs, warning this temporary lapse could impact counterterrorism investigations. Aides to the president are not calling out any senators by name but it's clear who the White House is frustrated with this morning and that is Senator Rand Paul.

White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest released a statement late last night praising the Senate for moving forward with a replacement bill for the Patriot Act known as the Freedom Act. But there is also a thinly veiled dig at Senator Paul. Here it is.

"We call on the Senate to ensure this irresponsible lapse in authorities is as short-lived as possible on a matter as critical as our national security. Individual senators must put aside their partisan motivations and act swiftly. The American people deserve nothing less."

It's no secret who that individual senator that statement is referring to. As for these expired NSA programs, Carol, you mentioned them, the bulk phone data collection, these roving wiretaps which allow investigators to keep track of suspects who are changing phones a lot, and then this lone wolf provision which has never been used, but allows authorities potentially to track a suspect who has not been tied to a terrorism investigation.

Now the White House had warned all last week that there was no plan B if these NSA programs expire, but counterterrorism officials explain investigators may have some work-around potential here to continue pursuing suspects. Investigators that had already begun before the lapse in these programs may be grandfathered in. But cases that potentially are open today, Carol, those could be affected and that is the danger this morning.

We may hear the president talk about this. He is expected to speak publicly later on this morning when he sits down with the Dutch king here at the White House in the oval office. No guarantee he'll talk about it but we'll be watching to see if he makes mention of this lapse in this NSA program here. It is something that has the White House's attention this morning -- Carol. [09:05:06] COSTELLO: All right. Jim Acosta reporting live from the

White House. Thank you.

OK. It's time to lose the political drama and lay some facts on you. It is likely -- highly likely the world will not end now that some of the NSA surveillance powers have been put on hold. The White House's own review group found the NSA's counterterrorism program was, quote, "not essential."

A former counterterrorism official who served on that review panel said, quote, "There's no way that you can claim that there's a single terrorist act that was prevented because of the telephone metadata collection program," end quote.

So why the panic? With me now Republican Senator Mike Lee.

Welcome, sir.

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: Hello.

COSTELLO: Hi. Thank you so much for joining me.

Senator, the NSA shut down its bulk data collection program at 7:44 last night. The White House says this is an irresponsible lapse. Should we be scared?

LEE: Well, we certainly should not have allowed these Patriot Act provisions to expire. We have legislation that I've introduced in the Senate, along with my co-sponsor Pat Leahy from Vermont. Legislation that passed the House with a bipartisan super majority of 338 votes to 88 votes just a couple of weeks ago. I've tried to put that on the floor of the Senate, just a few days before we recessed.

We still would have had time at that point to bring it up, to get it passed, and to get it signed into law before we took the Memorial Day recess. But that didn't work. Enough of my colleagues disagreed that we weren't able to move in that direction. It's important now for us to get this legislation passed into law and this legislation ends bulk data collection, which is what so many Americans are concerned about, with their privacy. But it allows these Patriot Act provisions to continue protecting the American people.

COSTELLO: But still, again, I ask you, is it an irresponsible lapse? Are we in danger because these programs have been put on temporary hold?

LEE: Well, I certainly think it's an irresponsible lapse. We should not have allowed them to expire. We've known for four years this day was coming. We've known for months that it was going to be very difficult this time around and we could have and should have avoided it. Now whether or not this is going to result in some active terror, I don't know. Only time can tell with that. I would be surprised if it did but we shouldn't be taking the risks.

So with each passing hour I think we have to ask ourselves, why is it we got into this position? Why is it that the Senate has become so accustomed to legislating by cliff, by deadline, instead of doing things in the regular order to make sure they're done in time?

COSTELLO: Well, sadly I think the American people have grown used to that. And before we get into the nitty-gritty, Senator Rand Paul has been accused of using the NSA to further his presidential ambitions. Is that fair?

LEE: Well, look, Senator Rand Paul is a friend of mine. He's someone that I deeply respect and admire. We come to a different conclusion in this case as to what the best solution is. But I will say this, he's been consistent on it. He's been very consistent since the day he got to the United Senate and asking for these reforms. And so these same things that are causing him to take a stand here are things that have propelled him long before he was ever a presidential candidate.

COSTELLO: So he's not posturing, in your mind?

LEE: No, I don't think this is mere posturing on the part of Senator Paul. Senator Paul deeply believes in these things. And although he takes a different approach here than I do, it's an approach that I understand and an approach that I respect.

COSTELLO: OK. So let's get back to the bill. The House has this compromise bill in place, it now goes to the Senate. Included in that bill, it requires the NSA to obtain targeted warrants if it wants to -- if it wants to collect these call records. It also requires the government to obtain call records from phone companies instead of doing itself.

Do these things protect my rights to privacy?

LEE: Yes. They do. And you know, I talk about these programs at length. I've devoted an entire chapter of my new book, "Our Lost Constitution" to this very program.

The problem with the bulk data collection program under Section 215 of the Patriot Act is that it involves the NSA going out to all the phone companies in America saying, send us all your records. All of them. We want detailed records on every call that was ever made. No, not the content of the call, of course. But just the records around who called whom, when the call occurred and how long the call lasted, instead of tying the investigation to a particular number, that's believed to be involved in some type of terror ring.

That's really the way it ought to work. It would be more effective and efficient that way. And it would also be more respectful of the privacy rights, the Fourth Amendment interest of the American people if we did it the way it contemplated under the USA Freedom Act.

COSTELLO: And a final question for you, sir. Is this a win for whistleblower Edward Snowden?

LEE: Look, I'm reluctant to attribute anything as a win to someone who violates U.S. law and discloses national security sensitive information. I don't think this necessarily a win for anyone because I don't think we should have allowed these provisions to expire. I think we should have, instead, reformed them, that is, what ought to happen is what would have happened if we were addressing this legislation into sequence and at a proper timing.

[09:10:11] COSTELLO: But, sir, had Edward Snowden never communicated in the way he did with the American people, would anything had been done about the NSA surveillance program?

LEE: Well, I don't know. And I don't know that we will ever know that. It may be that some of that information would have been declassified by now. That's impossible for us to tell. But we are where we are, this stuff has been declassified. The Americans are understandably concerned. A lot of us were understandably concerned a few years ago when we found out about it but we weren't able to talk about the specifics of why. Because it was still -- it was still classified.

Now that it's been declassified, it makes it a lot easier for us to talk about it, and that explains why we've been able to get to this point where we've got legislation that could pass and then I think in the next 48 hours will pass. It will finally end this program.

COSTELLO: All right. Senator Mike Lee, I appreciate it as always. Thank you so much.

LEE: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Several reports say four Americans are being held in Yemen. It's believed Houthi rebels have them in a prison in the capital city of Sana'a. A coalition led by Saudi Arabia has been launching airstrikes in the city since the overthrow of the U.S. backed government. Now it's believed the prisoners are among U.S. citizens who wouldn't or couldn't leave when the U.S. closed its embassy in February.

So what do we know about these hostages, or prisoners, and attempts to free them? CNN's Elise Labott is following the story for us.

Tell us more, Elise.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS REPORTER: Well, Carol, we don't know a lot about these Americans for the simple reason that the State Department is very concerned for their safety. So all the State Department will say is that they're aware of the reports but then go on to say we're working to get these individuals released immediately.

Now if you remember the State Department was very clear when the conflict with the Houthis began that all Americans should get out of Yemen because the U.S.'s ability to help them on the ground since the U.S. closed its embassy temporarily was going to be very limited.

And take a listen to the chairman of the House International Relations Committee, Ed Royce, last night on CNN saying why this is such a dangerous situation, talking about those Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. ED ROYCE, CHAIRMAN, HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS: The Houthis are a Shia militia, so in the morning they have this chant, death to America, just like the Iranians do. And they have the same attitude -- same attitude towards Americans. So just as four Americans are held, now by Iran, they're also being held here by this Houthi, you know, Shia militiamen. And so I think it's going to be difficult trying to extract them from this situation. Obviously our government needs to lean in to try to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LABOTT: And making the correlation there, Chairman Royce is -- because Iran and those Americans that we really don't know exist. The State Department isn't saying anything about whether Iran had any influence. And from what we've heard, Carol, we're not sure how much Iran is really calling the shots with the Houthis. But nevertheless, four Americans, possibly some of them could be dual Yemeni-U.S. nationals in custody in Yemen -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Elise Labott reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, John Kerry breaks his leg. Did the Iran nuclear talks get even more complicated?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:42] COSTELLO: Secretary of State John Kerry heading back to the United States today, after breaking his right femur while cycling in France. Kerry has been in Switzerland leading nuclear talks with Iran and with the deadline at the end of the month, this new reality could be six months of rehab.

Nic Robertson is in Geneva where Kerry is being treated now.

But I want to get back to Elise Labott who has new details on how the secretary will be getting home. Take it away, Elise.

LABOTT: Carol, I'm in Boston where Secretary Kerry will be coming back to Massachusetts General Hospital with his surgeon Dr. Dennis Burke, who traveled overnight and just arrived on the ground I'm told by senior State Department officials.

We're told that he'll be traveling back to Boston on a U.S. military transport plane, a C-17. That will be outfitted with medical equipment for his transport. In addition, officials tell me that there will be a small amount of U.S. military personnel as a precaution along with his surgeon.

Now, if you remember, Dr. Dennis Burke was the one who did Secretary Kerry's hip replacement. He will be bringing Secretary Kerry back here to Boston to set his leg and to help him get going on his recovery, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Elise Labott, many thanks to you.

Now to Nic Robertson in Geneva.

So, Secretary Kerry was supposed to be talking about the Iranian nuclear negotiations. How will this affect those negotiations, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's still a lot of things to be resolved in these talks, access to sites inside Iran. How sanctions will be applied. Could they be reapplied? How quickly?

So, a lot of details. When Secretary Kerry goes into these talks always with a team of experts who can get into the real details, the nitty-gritty. But pushing the talks along always is his relationship with Iranian Foreign Minister Zarif.

And in any type of negotiation, that personal relationship, where the leaders of each two teams know each other, they know how far they can push each other, they know where there may be a little more wiggle room, they read the body language, read their faces in the one-on-one conversations.

This is where Secretary Kerry's absence, if it proves to be an absence later this month, as we're led to believe that this type of injury sustained can take a lot of rehab, that his position would be missed from the talks. Yes, a deputy could fill in.

[09:20:00] But somebody who has that same relationship with Zarif, that's potentially the difficult issue here, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Nic Robertson reporting live from Geneva, thanks to you as well.

A side note: it may seem like a freak accident but Mr. Kerry's bike accident is sadly common as in it happens all the time. Remember Bono? He took a nasty spill in New York's Central Park back in November. He broke his arm in six places and fractured his eye socket. He also told fans he may never play guitar again.

According to the government, 48,000 people were injured in bike accidents in 2013, 742 died. Bicyclists accounted for 2 percent of all traffic fatalities in 2012.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: Lindsey Graham set to launch his 2016 campaign. But will observers pay more attention to his impact on the race instead of whether he can actually win?

CNN's Dana Bash is in South Carolina this morning.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, this is a place where Lindsey Graham grew up, a lot of people know him. Most people know him as a hawk on the national stage, but it is a very small town that made him who he is -- his humble beginnings in the building behind me. I'll have more on that and his announcement after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:25:30] COSTELLO: When Senator Lindsey Graham steps before the cameras in just a couple of hours, he will become the ninth Republican to throw his hat into the presidential ring.

And while many think the South Carolina senator's chances are slim, some observers say he could play a big role in his home state's critical primary.

Joining me now from Graham's hometown of Central, South Carolina, is CNN's chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash.

Good morning, Dana.

BASH: Good morning, Carol.

Well, it's not just the geographical and early contest state dynamic that will potentially play a role for Lindsey Graham and is not driving what Lindsey Graham. It's also what he believes he can bring to the field and to the debate when it comes to national security.

In fact, he probably couldn't have asked for a better national debate backdrop than the fact that the Senate allowed the national security wiretapping programs to lapse last night because of Rand Paul. The two of them have been sparring back and forth from afar about national security for some time.

And he, of course, has made it his calling card and become a national figure because he is so hawkish on national security issues. That's what he's going to talk about in a couple of hours here. About the fact that he believes that that is why he will make the best commander in chief.

But he's also going to talk, Carol, about the fact that he believes he is somebody who can do what America needs with regard to compromise, reaching across the aisle. He has experience doing that. Things like immigration reform and he wants to do that, he will say, on big problems facing this country like entitlements, Medicare, Social Security.

And lastly, I would just say that he is going to talk about where I am right now, Central, South Carolina, very small town. You can see behind me the building here. This is a very sort of near and dear to his heart but also has painful memories.

It's a bar and a restaurant that his parents owned. He and his sister and his parents lived in one back room in the back. He went to college, his parents died, his sister was 13, and he effectively had to take care of her and actually eventually adopted his sister in order for her to get military benefits when he was in the Air Force.

He's going to talk a lot about that. We don't hear him discuss his painful but important past in terms of shaping him very much.

COSTELLO: All right. We'll check back. Dana Bash reporting live from South Carolina this morning. While Senator Graham takes center stage, Rand Paul may rule the day

thanks to his success in delaying some of those controversial Patriot Act provisions. Paul is lighting up Twitter with look what I did tweets and pleas for money. And America's Liberty PAC, it's released an epic ad for its champion Rand Paul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: For the biggest brawl of the decade. Meet the biggest rivals. Defender of freedom Senator Rand Paul versus the head of the Washington spy machine, Barack Obama --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I just enjoy watching that.

But seriously, Paul's Republican opponents do not consider him their brawny champion. Senator Marco Rubio writing, quote, "Allowing any of these NSA programs to expire is a mistake but what is happen -- but that's what is happening as a consequence of the reckless spreading of misinformation and political posturing."

With me now, CNN's executive editor of politics, Mark Preston.

Good morning, Mark.

MARK PRESTON, CNN EXECUTIVE EDITOR, POLITICS: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here.

So, Marco Rubio can criticize, but is Paul's message resonating?

PRESTON: Well, if you talk to the Paul people they will say in fact it is resonating and for this reason alone, I just spoke to a source very close to Rand Paul and this source said to me, listen, the American people do not trust the government. This is why this is such an important issue for Rand Paul. Something that Rand Paul has been talking about for years.

But when you're running in a Republican presidential primary, you tend to have more hawks as voters -- folks who believe in strong national security strong defense. And what we saw last night we saw the criticism launched at Rand Paul by people within his own party, who say that, in fact, he has weakened America's ability to track down terrorists.

COSTELLO: Well, more than one Republican is slamming Paul. According to "Roll Call", Senator John McCain told reporters Paul is, quote, "the worst."

So, do you think Paul is just posturing? Because I talked to Senator Lee earlier this morning, he said Paul passionately believes in what he's doing, he's not posturing.

[09:30:00] PRESTON: Well, he certainly does. This is something that isn't new that arrived on the radar screen for Rand Paul. Something he's been talking about for years. The problem for Rand Paul is he's now running for president in a Republican primary where an issue like this might not play, as well.